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View Full Version : Help refine a team building exercise? (Combat Encounter)



DMThac0
2018-04-17, 11:36 AM
I'm trying to present a combat against a creature that will appear to be impossible to defeat unless the party uses teamwork and communication. It's based off of the mechanics I've seen used in various video games, so you may recognize it. I'd like to hear what adjustments, additions, and ideas you guys might have.

Goal:

Defeat the opponent, or opponents to claim victory.

Rules:


The guild with the quickest finish will be the victor.
If the entirety of the guild is eliminated the challenge will reset.
Each guild may use anything at their disposal to complete the challenge.


Phase 1:


4 portals issue forth energy tethers to 4 humanoid creatures.

Red: Immune to physical attacks
Blue: Regenerates 5 HP per turn
Yellow: Immune to magic
Green: 25% more damage


The tethers stop the creatures in such a manner that there will be no less than 20ft between the two creatures.
If a player interrupts the beam, the creature will immediately reappear at the termination of the beam.
When the creatures are killed the tether and creature vanish for 5 rounds at which time they respawn.


Phase 2:


The 4 tethers extend to the center and create a single Huge creature which obtains all 4 of the tether’s effects simultaneously.
Each tether grants the creature a boon

Red: Resistance to Physical damage
Blue: Regenerates 20 HP per turn
Yellow: Resistance to Magic damage
Green: Doubles damage


If a player stands in one of the beams they will receive a boon and condition, as well as removing the boon from the creature in the center.

Red: Doubles Damage, reduces Strength by 1 every round
Blue: Regenerates 5 HP each round, reduces max hp by 1 every round
Yellow: Infinite spell slots, take 1d4 damage each round
Green: Auto Critical, Can only attack every other round


After 2 rounds out of beam the conditions are removed.

aimlessPolymath
2018-04-17, 01:27 PM
It looks like you copy-pasted the phases twice.

That aside, I'm not super clear on where the communication and teamwork happens, or what keeps players from running through the encounter normally.

My primary concern with Phase 1 is that the portion of the encounter that requires good communication (deal 4 finishing blows within 5 rounds) relies on information not easily available to the players (the hit points of the various creatures) and rules/strategy not immediately obvious (standard strategy is to focus fire on one target at a time, which means the first 5 turns of combat will be largely meaningless)
That said, I very much like the fundamental idea, which is reminiscent of the Darklings from Slay the Spire; I could see a version of it with two or three creatures but a much shorter rez time.

My primary concern with Phase 2 is that the encounter requires very little teamwork at all beyond what's needed normally- the optimum strategy is either: having each player stand on one of the corresponding beams and hit the enemy until dead, which means each character is pretty much playing solitaire; having players pile on the boss normally; or something in between

More generally, I think that tabletop games have a lot of communication already, to the point where you sometimes have people playing backseat driver, highly coordinated telepathic tactics, and so on; I'm not sure what this encounter requires from players that can't be done by a medium sized room containing some interesting terrain features and a diverse group of threats.

DMThac0
2018-04-17, 02:08 PM
It looks like you copy-pasted the phases twice.
Copy/Paste is hard...



My primary concern with Phase 1 is that the portion of the encounter that requires good communication (deal 4 finishing blows within 5 rounds) relies on information not easily available to the players (the hit points of the various creatures) and rules/strategy not immediately obvious (standard strategy is to focus fire on one target at a time, which means the first 5 turns of combat will be largely meaningless)
That said, I very much like the fundamental idea, which is reminiscent of the Darklings from Slay the Spire; I could see a version of it with two or three creatures but a much shorter rez time.

Without hit point totals being apparent, you're correct the information is not "readily" available, that portion will be very much in my hands making sure to describe the situation, "As you strike down on the creature, you notice that it's form seems unstable, you feel that one or two more good blows will likely cause it to fall". I enjoy giving colorful narration so it wouldn't be too much work to provide that kind of feedback.

With the shorter rez timers; are you saying drop the quirks to them and simply have them require the party kill them faster?



My primary concern with Phase 2 is that the encounter requires very little teamwork at all beyond what's needed normally- the optimum strategy is either: having each player stand on one of the corresponding beams and hit the enemy until dead, which means each character is pretty much playing solitaire; having players pile on the boss normally; or something in between

The teamwork is intended to happen here because of the tethers. The bonuses the creature gets should offset anything the players do to him until the players intercept a tether. When in the tether, the negative effects should require them to step out of the tether thus giving that particular boon back to the boss. As with all things, this is in theory, players love to make things go sideways.



More generally, I think that tabletop games have a lot of communication already, to the point where you sometimes have people playing backseat driver, highly coordinated telepathic tactics, and so on; I'm not sure what this encounter requires from players that can't be done by a medium sized room containing some interesting terrain features and a diverse group of threats.

Tabletop games should have a lot of communication, the group I'm working with has issues with this. It is, in many cases, a few individuals in the same place, not a party of adventurers. I am aiming to give them an experience that will highlight the benefit of more open/constructive communication, but in an entertaining way. I'm not out to kill them, once this is done there's a reward waiting for them, and even if they struggle, they'll get hints along the way to help them succeed.

To the second point; the approach that this encounter is taking happens to be thematic to the events unfolding in the game. You are correct everything you said, but theme :smallbiggrin:

aimlessPolymath
2018-04-17, 03:12 PM
Without hit point totals being apparent, you're correct the information is not "readily" available, that portion will be very much in my hands making sure to describe the situation, "As you strike down on the creature, you notice that it's form seems unstable, you feel that one or two more good blows will likely cause it to fall". I enjoy giving colorful narration so it wouldn't be too much work to provide that kind of feedback.

With the shorter rez timers; are you saying drop the quirks to them and simply have them require the party kill them faster?

To clarify: My worry is that there are a couple issues to deal with:
-Presenting the "kill them all at once" thing to the players, so that they work it out- i.e. understanding the nature of the encounter, who resists what, etc.
-Getting them to coordinate effectively.

Reducing the rez timer (and ideally presenting it as the creatures rezzing their ally), I think, makes the first case clearer and easier.

My concern about the 5-turn timer is that it is too lenient on the players, and they can just kill the creatures sequentially, which is why I suggested the shorter duration. Note that once one enemy goes down, the fight can quickly snowball, so shortening that time makes sense IMO.



The teamwork is intended to happen here because of the tethers. The bonuses the creature gets should offset anything the players do to him until the players intercept a tether. When in the tether, the negative effects should require them to step out of the tether thus giving that particular boon back to the boss. As with all things, this is in theory, players love to make things go sideways.
My worry is that it seems that the best strategy is that each player stands in one of the tethers and beats on the boss on their own, paying little attention to what others do. It's too easy to play solitaire.

As a tactical player, I would say the thing that pushed me to pay attention to positioning and threats was being in a fairly lethal situation- that instead of focusing on beating down a monster, the party had to fight defensively to cover a downed ally. In addition to teaching us not to rush in freely, we also had to pay a lot more attention to positioning.

Another major factor that helped me was awareness of my options beyond attacking- which is a fairly linear tool. The ability to fight defensively to block access to my more damaging allies was a major useful skill. Our lack of easy access to healing also made us much more cautious.

Consider the following encounter of four creatures:

-Warden (Red): A Large creature that uses the Knockback feat to shield the Healer and Sniper, and provides cover (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Cover) with his shield ( make it clear that you are drawing line of effect so players know to move)
-Healer (Blue): Grants a single other creature at a time +4 AC and 10 HP/round (If his concentration is disrupted, then it ends)
-Sniper (Yellow): Fires force bolts; on a 2d4 cooldown, the bolts apply paralysis (as Hold Person).
-Assassin(Green): Sudden Strike (functions against people who are Held) + teleportation.

No group rez.
No special defenses (which can get confusing IMO).

Pillars surround the arena, providing cover to those who hide behind them.

In the center is high ground, which provides an accuracy and defense bonus to those at the top. Blue and Yellow stand there; Red walks around the peak and knocks away anyone who gets too close (also defends with attacks of opportunity against the first to approach him). If the players fail to approach, then Red will charge down and try to beat down the squishiest target.

There are four threats present; one of them keeps the others safe and makes focus fire difficult; one of them makes it hard to attack vulnerable targets; two of them (combined) heavily threaten any character who moves out of position.

There are a variety of approaches- poking down Blue from range; waiting for Green to engage on a paralyzed target and then focusing him down in a turn; diverting Red's attention from one direction and then attacking from the other.

DMThac0
2018-04-17, 03:23 PM
Thank you, I appreciate the depth of your response.

I'm going to have to roll your ideas around for a while, fortunately I have about 2 weeks before the encounter. There are some mechanics in what you've described I like a lot. Yay, more thinking!