Wave, Whelm and Blackrazor - Yawning Portal

[Avonar]

I'm currently running a group through the Yawning Portal dungeons in order, they will soon be at White Plume Mountain. Has anyone else done this, and can they comments whether these weapons are too powerful or not? Do they trivialise things? I notice that the players will be at lower levels than expected for future dungeons, do these make up for the gap?

I'm thinking notably about Blackrazor's ability to give dozens of temp HP pretty consistently, and Wave being able to 2-shot bosses.

[jaappleton]

Well, what level is the party?

[Avonar]

Well, what level is the party?

Based on the XP for the first 3 dungeons they should be level 7 at the end of White Plume Mountain

[LtPowers]

Wave, Whelm, and Blackrazor are very powerful weapons, but even then they can only do so much. They will make encounters easier. But it's not totally unbalancing. Bump up encounter difficulties if you have to, but let your players have their fun. They have to give 'em back once they're done anyway.

Keep in mind that Wave's wielder must worship a sea god to attune to it.


Powers &8^]

[Mister_Squinty]

I'm currently running a group through the Yawning Portal dungeons in order, they will soon be at White Plume Mountain. Has anyone else done this, and can they comments whether these weapons are too powerful or not? Do they trivialise things? I notice that the players will be at lower levels than expected for future dungeons, do these make up for the gap?

I'm thinking notably about Blackrazor's ability to give dozens of temp HP pretty consistently, and Wave being able to 2-shot bosses.

My barbarian Dwarf and Blackrazor made a great team, until they met the undead. The first time the sword tried to kill Dorvor instead of the guy Dorvor hit, Dorvor was done with talky black sword.

Which is too bad, because we're going Against the Giants now, and a Hill Giant's worth of Temp HP would be damn convenient.

[Avonar]

Wave, Whelm, and Blackrazor are very powerful weapons, but even then they can only do so much. They will make encounters easier. But it's not totally unbalancing. Bump up encounter difficulties if you have to, but let your players have their fun. They have to give 'em back once they're done anyway.

Keep in mind that Wave's wielder must worship a sea god to attune to it.


Powers &8^]

I wasn't planning on having them give them back, and besides Wave does specify it is open to new worshipers (hell it is willing accept a promise to convert in order to instantly attune and save someone).

And I'm running through all the dungeons, so I don't really want to mess with encounter difficulties? I like how well things have been so far. I'm considering reducing their power a little, I was just curious if I need to or not. Maybe I'll start with full power, and if they are too strong I'll cut things back (I have good groups, they won't mind if I explain).

[Pex]

My group didn't keep nor use the weapons at the time. Our reason for being there was being hired by wealthy patrons to retrieve the weapons for them. In return they financed the Fort we were building on land we acquired in a previous unrelated adventure. If you don't want the players to keep the weapons give them an Honest True worthy rewards incentive. Deal with consequences if they want to keep the weapons anyway, but it might be worth considering talking to the players out of character to say the weapons are only the Mcguffin not meant for the campaign. Their characters will get a comparable reward of something they want, will like, and can use.

Another question you should be asking yourself is what do you do if the party solves The Riddle and has their Riddle Friend tag along with them. They will want to keep him after the adventure is over. That may or may not be a problem for your campaign, but the players will feel miffed if oh so coincidentally it dies by some means when the adventure is over.

If you're interested in how my group got the weapons from their guardians with as little combat as possible as well as ambushed the ambushers by the floating river, PM me.

[ImproperJustice]

We are in the process of completing this adventure.

Thus far:

We do not have a Dwarf currently in our group, although we do have one in our swappable PC stable when we return to base. In the interim we have decided to potentially try and aid Whelm by finding it’s lost clan.

Black razor seems evil. Everything about it makes our party feel icky. We don’t want our patrons or anyone to have it. We threw it in the boiling mudpit along with the remains of the Dwarfpire.

As far as Wave goes, my EK is a young lad that has lived on the sea and worshipped Umberlee all his life. I built his backstory long before I even knew Wave existed and carried a trident as my chief weapon. We attuned instantly and it has been awesome so far. My GM did limit Wave’s power some. It’s combat bonus is equal to one half my proficiency bonus rounded down for instance.
I did trivialize one encounter where I was out of my armor due to a heat metal trap and kept a group of ghouls at bay via the cube of force. I am more than willing to work with my GM so I do not abuse this ability and will accept any downgrades that are nescessary.

We also have the riddle answer, and to be honest, we just didn’t like having him around. He was icky, was a pain to navigate around aome obstacles, and he was one more thing to manage in combat. We took a vote and sent him back to the riddle chamber. Haven’t looked back.

[Pex]

We also have the riddle answer, and to be honest, we just didn’t like having him around. He was icky, was a pain to navigate around aome obstacles, and he was one more thing to manage in combat. We took a vote and sent him back to the riddle chamber. Haven’t looked back.

Shrug.

My group's Riddle Answer helped us in the fight to release the Cursed Guardian so we didn't have to fight him. We took him with us. He helps guard our Fort.

[bc56]

White plume is intended for 4-5 level 8 PCs. That said, some encounters are going to be on the very hard side for them without the weapons.

That said, they are supposed to return the fancy weapons to their owners, not keep them. The weapons should be owned by pretty powerful people, too. Wave could belong to the high priest of a sea god, Whelm could be the property of a dwarven lord, and Blackrazor could belong to an enigmatic noble. What's important, though, is that all the owners are powerful enough to make the PCs lives miserable if they don't return the weapons.

[Avonar]

White plume is intended for 4-5 level 8 PCs. That said, some encounters are going to be on the very hard side for them without the weapons.

That said, they are supposed to return the fancy weapons to their owners, not keep them. The weapons should be owned by pretty powerful people, too. Wave could belong to the high priest of a sea god, Whelm could be the property of a dwarven lord, and Blackrazor could belong to an enigmatic noble. What's important, though, is that all the owners are powerful enough to make the PCs lives miserable if they don't return the weapons.

Well, in a pure-dungeon campaign things like that are really pretty irrelevant. I'm not running this for the plot, it's to experience and try and survive each dungeon in turn.

The actual Yawning Portal adventure for White Plume Mountain says nothing about returning the weapons. Should I assume from this that it assumes if they are being run in order (a possibility like the book says) they should have the weapons at full power? I have already noticed they will be at lower levels for future dungeons based on the amount of available XP. I guess I can always give them slightly not-as-ridiculous models that they can keep.

[LtPowers]

The actual Yawning Portal adventure for White Plume Mountain says nothing about returning the weapons. Should I assume from this that it assumes if they are being run in order (a possibility like the book says) they should have the weapons at full power? I have already noticed they will be at lower levels for future dungeons based on the amount of available XP. I guess I can always give them slightly not-as-ridiculous models that they can keep.

They're legendary weapons, and rightfully so. They're far too powerful for characters under level 15 to keep.


Powers &8^]

[bc56]

Well, in a pure-dungeon campaign things like that are really pretty irrelevant. I'm not running this for the plot, it's to experience and try and survive each dungeon in turn.

The actual Yawning Portal adventure for White Plume Mountain says nothing about returning the weapons. Should I assume from this that it assumes if they are being run in order (a possibility like the book says) they should have the weapons at full power? I have already noticed they will be at lower levels for future dungeons based on the amount of available XP. I guess I can always give them slightly not-as-ridiculous models that they can keep.

It actually does, but it's in the introduction rather than the conclusion. It's the reason the PCs go to the dungeon in the first place.

[Sigreid]

It actually does, but it's in the introduction rather than the conclusion. It's the reason the PCs go to the dungeon in the first place.

Read the intro recently. It said the wizard who stole them sent letters far and wide with a taunting challenge to all to come and get them. You could and return them for a reward, but it doesn't have to go down that way.

[Avonar]

Read the intro recently. It said the wizard who stole them sent letters far and wide with a taunting challenge to all to come and get them. You could and return them for a reward, but it doesn't have to go down that way.

What I was thinking. I potentially have a different way to get them there and honestly, I like the idea of them keeping them. Though as people have mentioned they are extremely powerful so might tone them down for it.

[Kyrinthic]

Let me preface this by saying these are all +3 weapons with extra abilities, and are easily the best weapons in the game. That said, they are not all equal.

Wave has a lot of utility, but really only feels powerful if you get an early crit on a big enemy. It feels more like a +3 weapon with a handful of free attunement common-rare item abilities.

Whelm is underwhelming (heh), overall it has decent base damage, but its special ability is questionable, and its downside more likely to be an issue normally (if you are just going dungeon to dungeon, less so).

Either of those two, while strong, could be left in the parties hand to use so long as you bump up encounters a bit.

Now Blackrazer on the other hand, will destroy any encounter you throw at it. It is _Vastly_ stronger than the other two. Near infinite temp hps for the user, nearly constant advantage, and a free haste 1/day. you cant leave that with a party and have any semblance of a combat encounter afterwards.

[Sigreid]

What I was thinking. I potentially have a different way to get them there and honestly, I like the idea of them keeping them. Though as people have mentioned they are extremely powerful so might tone them down for it.

I wouldn't tone them down, just use their egos. There's a reason I dont do intelligent weapons on my characters and that's because a strong enough ego on a weapon and who owns who can come into question.