PDA

View Full Version : Space Marine (WH 40k) Template and PrC for 3.5ed



Kizara
2007-09-02, 06:40 PM
I'm adjusting (slightly) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a
this for power armor.

Also, this is DnD 3.5ed, and with the following houserules:

1) Blaster pistols/rifles do 4d6 points of fire damage (super-heated plasma)

2) Military issue heavy blaster rifles do 4d8 points of fire damage and are exotic weapons.

3) Regular swords, hammer's, etc can be made with "Power-enhancements" which allow them to 'charge' with super-heated plasma to deal an additional 2d6 points of fire damage. This is a non-magical bonus, and can stack with the flamming enchantment.

4) Armor is made out of a special high-tech material that resists the super-heated plasma that blaster weapons fire, and thus is still useful to wear.

5) Flammers can deal 4d10 points of fire damage to a single stationary target within 20 feet as a full-round action (cannot target a moving target).
The fire presists in the effected square for two rounds, dealing 2d10 points of fire damage (reflex half) to any who enter the square the first round, and 1d10 points the second round.
Alternately, they can spray a 15ft cone of fire that deals 2d6 points of fire damage (reflex half) and can target moving opponents (within range) in this fashion and are exotic weapons.
The fire presists in the effected cone for 1 round, dealing 1d6 damage to any who enter the area.
6) Still need to make missile launchers/missile damage and 'plasma' heavy weapons.


Genetically Augmented Template:

+6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Cha
Add 1' to base height.
Gain Alertness, Iron Will, Endurance, Improved Toughness and Exotic Armor Proficiency (Power Armor) as bonus feats.
Gain +1 to all saves, and +4 additional versus posion.
Reduce time needed to sleep by 3/4 (so 6 hours if normally 8 hours).
Gain low-light vision.
Gain immunity to non-magical causes of blood loss, and automatically stablize if dropped under 0 hp.
Gain the ability to hold your breath four times longer than normal, and increased ability to survive in low-atmosphere or toxic environments(to be clarified later).
Gain immunity to the Nauseated and Dazed effects.
Gain fire resistance 10.

Level Adjustment: +3

(seem reasonable? too much?)

Space Marine PRC:

Prereqs:
BAB: +6
Race: Genetically Augmented Human
Feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus (any blaster or sword), Weapon Specialization (any blaster or sword), Armor Specialization (Power Armor).
Skills: Surivial (space) 8 ranks, Knowledge (tactics) 5 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 2 ranks.

Special: Must be immune to fear.
Must have served with distinction in the Imperial Marine Corps, and be accepted into the elite order of the Imperial Space Marines.
This class must be taken with both sides of a Gestalt.

BAB: Full
Good Saves: Fort, Will
HD: d12
Skills: The class skills for the space marine (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Knowledge (tactics) (Int), Piloting (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (space) (Wis).
Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Level 1: Enhancement +2, Divine Smite 1/day
Level 2: Sleeplessness, Divine Blessing
Level 3: Divine Power, Divine Might
Level 4: Enhancement +4, Armor Superiority
Level 5: Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery, Divine Smite 2/day
Level 6: Divine Ordanance, Righteous Might
Level 7: Enhancement +6
Level 8: Melee or Ranged Weapon Supremency
Level 9: Overpower, Protection of Dogma
Level 10: Enhancement +8, Unstoppable, Divine Smite 3/day

Enchancement (Ex):
The space marine gains this bonus to strength and consitution, and half this bonus to dexterity.

Divine Smite (Su): The space marine can smite the enemies of the Emperor, adding his charisma bonus to attack and his class level to damage. Any paladin levels stack for the purpose of calculating the damage of this attack. The creature struck need not be of a specific alignment or type: as long as it's considered an enemy of the Emperor by the Space Marines, and too unclean to live.

Sleeplessness (Ex): A space marine need only to sleep for 6 hours a week, at any time during that week.

Divine Blessing (Su): The space marine gains a +4 insight bonus to initiative and damage as well as an additional 12 hit points and +5 feet base movement speed.

Divine Power (Sp): The space marine can use divine power as a cleric of twice his class level, 4 times per day.

Divine Might (Su): You gain Divine Might as a bonus feat if you meet the prerequisites. However, the bonus to damage lasts a number of rounds equal to half your charisma modifier (minimum 1 round).
Armor Superiority (Ex): When wearing masterwork or otherwise advanced power armor, you gain DR 8/-. This overides the bonus from Armor Specialization.

Melee and Ranged Weapon Mastery (Ex): You gain Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing) and Ranged Weapon Mastery (energy weapons) as bonus feats, even if you do not meet the prerequisites for these feats.

Divine Ordanance (Su): Any munitions you fire, from energy bolts, grenades to missiles, deals an additional 1d6 points of divine damage and also deals half of their normal damage as divine damage. For instance, if you shot someone with a rifle that normally did 4d6 points of fire damage, it instead would do 2d6 points of fire damage + 3d6 points of divine damage. Also, any ordanance you fire is considered blessed.
(divine damage is energy damage that is of no specific type)

Righteous Might (Sp): The space marine can use righteous might as a cleric of twice his class level, 4 times per day.

Melee or Ranged Weapon Supremacy (Ex): You gain Weapon Supremacy with the weapon you originally had Weapon Specialization in.

Overpower (Su): Twice per day, the space marine can become Overpowering for a number of rounds equal to his Constitution modifier. He gains a +4 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, a +10 morale bonus to any bull rush, overrun, sunder, attempts he makes. He also gains the +10 bonus on melee damage rolls when he charges, grapple checks, and Strength checks to break objects or force open doors. Furthermore, he gains the benefit of the freedom of movement spell for the duration of this effect.

Protection of Dogma (Ex): The space marine’s zealous devotion and faith in his cause and himself protect him from outside influences. He gains a +8 morale bonus against charms, compulsions and enchantment effects.

Unstoppable (Su): At level 10, the space marine gains the ability to become Unstoppable once a day. He gains all the benefits of Overpower (without using a daily usage of that ability) and also gains the following benefits:
+6 resistance bonus to saves
Resistance to fire, cold, acid, electricity and sonic 20
Immunity to 6th level and lower spell effects.
Fast Healing 20
+20ft base movement speed




Ok, so, considering the class is for BOTH sides of a gestalt, and has some pretty good pre-reqs, is it good? Is it reasonable?

Kizara
2007-09-03, 01:50 PM
No takers, eh?

I would really appreciate some advice/critique as I have not been playing gestalt long, and don't have a strong idea if this class is balanced or reasonable or not.

Furthermore, I don't have alot of warhammer knowledge, so I don't know much about the Space Marines or if this class accurately represents them or not.

Arakune
2007-09-03, 04:51 PM
so, are you saying only paladins can have this PrC?

Kizara
2007-09-03, 05:10 PM
so, are you saying only paladins can have this PrC?

That would be the most obvious choice, yes.

However, if you could find a race (such as a vampire), or other class or feat that gave you the ability to be immune to fear, you could use that to qualify also.

Note the requirement is "Immunity to Fear" not "Aura of Courage".

Hawriel
2007-09-03, 07:33 PM
40K does not have blasters. or vibro weapons. thats star wars.

space marines use bolt guns or power weapons, plasma weapons lazguns jetpacks, varios armored vehicles and a telaporter, for terminator space marines. they had no inharent special powers. just equipment and higher than normal stats. The special class abilities you give would be suited to a chaplain or librarian.

I have not played 40K in a long time, but the only abilites other than armor and weapons that a space marine had where these.

Multi shot: space marines could make two ranged attacks when standing still.

and I dont remember the name but I'll call it resalve. If a space marine fails its moral check they do not turn and run. Instead they cant move. in other words they hold their ground and mutli shot is used. for a space marine fear means I shoot it again.

for D&D 3.5 I recomend these feats or class abilities that do the same and or expand on the idea.

rapid shot, Shot on the run, point blank shot, endurance, diehard, toughness, rapid reload.

I recomend a progresive save to willpower in general, similar progretion to favored enemy or trap sence. maybe a +2 every time max out at +6.

Space marines fight terror and chaose itself. I would emagine giving a fighter bonus to saves VS will should be the biggest insentive to take the prc.

well just my opinion any way.

LordVader
2007-09-03, 07:38 PM
Basically, just treat Boltguns as blasters and you're golden. Also, as previously stated, 40k uses power swords that have a lightsaber-like field, not vibro-stuff. But again, just substitue the words, no need to change the ability. Rest of stuff looks good, from a 40ker's point of view, anyways. I'm no D&Der, so someone else'll have to talk about the rules themselves.

Also, Multishot would be good to represent the bolter's ability to rapid fire, as it's an automatic weapon.

Dryad
2007-09-03, 07:50 PM
I know Space weenies are typically overpowered.. But the 40K point-buy system kind of makes up for that. D20, however, can't. Because it's not point-buy.
Anyway, space marines are nearly undead, as it is, driven by machinery instead of biology. They're parts of a body in a construct. Flesh Golems, actually.

Kizara
2007-09-03, 09:55 PM
Basically, just treat Boltguns as blasters and you're golden. Also, as previously stated, 40k uses power swords that have a lightsaber-like field, not vibro-stuff. But again, just substitue the words, no need to change the ability. Rest of stuff looks good, from a 40ker's point of view, anyways. I'm no D&Der, so someone else'll have to talk about the rules themselves.

Also, Multishot would be good to represent the bolter's ability to rapid fire, as it's an automatic weapon.

Thanks, good to know I got the fluff right with very limited knowledge of WH 40k.
I will change the fluff of the weapons to "Power Swords" and 'blaster' is a very generic term I'm using, its basically an 'energy gun', you could easily call it a "bolter" instead.

And good call with the multishot, I was wondering how to deal with automatic weapons, and that's a good starting point rules-wise. Thanks for the advice.


"I know Space weenies are typically overpowered.. But the 40K point-buy system kind of makes up for that. D20, however, can't. Because it's not point-buy.
Anyway, space marines are nearly undead, as it is, driven by machinery instead of biology. They're parts of a body in a construct. Flesh Golems, actually."

Do you feel my PrC is overpowered, hence your comment? If so, please explain why.

Also, I do not know if your statement about WH Space Marines is valid, but that is not the impression I got from playing Dark Crusade. I am going with the "elite bio-enhanced super-soldier" flavor, not "undead-esque cyborgs".

13_CBS
2007-09-03, 10:06 PM
Hmm...you may need to boost wisdom and int as well. IIRC, Adeptus Astartes tend to not only be incredibly strong, tough, and generally powerful, but they also need to be quick of wit and quite intelligent (or at least that's what their fluff implies--only the best, and thus both strongest and smartest, of candidates who apply for Space Marineship are chosen).

Thus, with all of these stat boosts, you should consider bumping the LA up a bit more.

Also, it'll be cool if you give space marines from different chapters a slight boost in certain areas and such (for example, White Scars marines are very good at hit and run attacks on bikes, and so should get a boost in their vehicle handling skill. Blood Angel succesor chapters, meanwhile, should get a boost to their melee abilities).

Finally, are you considering adding a Chaos space marine template?

PS: check this for the evolution of a space marine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-seed

Kizara
2007-09-03, 10:42 PM
Hmm...you may need to boost wisdom and int as well. IIRC, Adeptus Astartes tend to not only be incredibly strong, tough, and generally powerful, but they also need to be quick of wit and quite intelligent (or at least that's what their fluff implies--only the best, and thus both strongest and smartest, of candidates who apply for Space Marineship are chosen).

Thus, with all of these stat boosts, you should consider bumping the LA up a bit more.

Also, it'll be cool if you give space marines from different chapters a slight boost in certain areas and such (for example, White Scars marines are very good at hit and run attacks on bikes, and so should get a boost in their vehicle handling skill. Blood Angel succesor chapters, meanwhile, should get a boost to their melee abilities).

Finally, are you considering adding a Chaos space marine template?

PS: check this for the evolution of a space marine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene-seed

1) Your point about Int and Wisdom is valid, but I don't want to bump it from a strong 2 LA to a weak 3 LA. Also, I chose to empathsise the most dominant traits of the Space Marines: Strength and Power (erm, toughness), and gave a slight nod to Dexterity and Charisma.

2) While I'm sure it would be cool, there's a few problems with doing that:
a) In D&D, slightly different 'tribes' or 'displines' of the same order are represented by things like Feat choices. I'm aware ToB kind of moved away from this, but I think ToB is crap so I don't use or adapt any of it's material.

b) I simply don't know enough about Warhammer or the Space Marines to even try, beyond the fact that I don't really want to. From what you said, I would say my PrC is inspired by the Blood Angels.

c) It is probably possible to revise the PrC and have it something like the monk: you choose from a couple themed abilities at a certain level, depending on what 'type' of monk you are. Again, I'm not going to because 1) it would be alot of work and 2) I don't have a strong background in warhammer. If you or someone else wants to use this PrC and adapt it in such a fashion, I'm fine with that as long as you give me credit for the original work.

3) With chaos marines, as with the chapters, I simply don't know enough. I know they are normal Marines tainted by chaos/evil energies. I would say use this template/PrC and then add the Anarchtic and/or half-fiend templates and take levels in the Ravager PrC (Cwarrior).

Edit: That link was EXTREMELY useful, and I have decided to add in a bunch of stuff based on that material, and will thus buff the LA up to 3. I'll likely look to include your mental ability score adjustments as well.

Thank you very much.

Edit 2: I've revised the augmented template to include most of the abilities found in that link, but there is nothing in there about enchancing mental abilities beyond preception (which I have covered with Alertness).

13_CBS
2007-09-03, 11:34 PM
Remember: Space marines aren't feared for just their brute strength and power: the Empire already has Ogryns (ogres) for that job. The Space Marine's true strengths come from his immense, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor and his own tactical and intellectual prowess.

You don't become a supersoldier by being stupid :smalltongue:

Oh, and the Space Marine chapters bit...check the wikipedia articles further for a CRAPLOAD of more info; the link I sent you was just the tip of the iceberg. It includes info on the chaos space marines (which are probably better than regular space marines 1v1, since chaos space marines are effectively immortal and have each seen hundreds upon hundreds of battles in the span of several human lifetimes), space marine chapters, weapons, and other races.

Links:

Chaos Space Marines (9 chapters of them) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Space_Marines)

Space Marines in general(9 chapters of them) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Marines_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29)

Weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Imperium_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29)

A d20 future model to base your stuff off of (http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/)

Kizara
2007-09-03, 11:49 PM
Remember: Space marines aren't feared for just their brute strength and power: the Empire already has Ogryns (ogres) for that job. The Space Marine's true strengths come from his immense, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor and his own tactical and intellectual prowess.

You don't become a supersoldier by being stupid :smalltongue:

Oh, and the Space Marine chapters bit...check the wikipedia articles further for a CRAPLOAD of more info; the link I sent you was just the tip of the iceberg. It includes info on the chaos space marines (which are probably better than regular space marines 1v1, since chaos space marines are effectively immortal and have each seen hundreds upon hundreds of battles in the span of several human lifetimes), space marine chapters, weapons, and other races.

Links:

Chaos Space Marines (9 chapters of them) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Space_Marines)

Space Marines in general(9 chapters of them) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Marines_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29)

Weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Imperium_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29)

A d20 future model to base your stuff off of (http://www.geocities.com/skrittiblak/)

Thanks again, I'll check out those links in the near future, its late right now.

As for intellect and not being mindless: I agree, but they're are not genetically enhanced in that regard. Perhaps I will give them a few more class skills and bump it to 4+ Int, any suggestions?

13_CBS
2007-09-03, 11:58 PM
Hmm...I think you're right about that one. You may wish to include a mental score prerequisite for the Space Marine PrC, though. Again, idiots don't get to become super soldiers :smallbiggrin:

Dryad
2007-09-06, 10:11 AM
Yes, your class is overpowered. Why? Because it has Power Armour, and a hell of a lot of specials. And that's not a bad thing, in a space marine. Like I said; Warhammer's Point Buy system covers that. (And I meant Warhammer 40K, not a computer game. A real one.)
However, I don't see how you can validly introduce a class that is supposed to be overpowered in a game where several players have only one single character, and cannot point-buy them as they could in a strategy game. One space marine is sixteen points, with only a bolter and a knife as a weapon. One Termagaunt is 5 points, if I remember correctly, also including weapons. Now, the Space Marine, taking up more points in an army, should be a hell of a lot better than a gaunt. Overpowered, in fact. The marine should be able to take three of them out, no problem. Points-wise.

But now you run a DnD campaign. One player has a marine character; the other a gaunt character. The marine character can kill just about anything, no problem. The gaunt character can die. See; that's where it goes wrong.

In a roleplaying game, you can't have an elite warrior class that's better than a fighter/weapons master. You can only make an elite warrior class that's just as good as a fighter/weaponsmaster. Why? because of balance.

A power armour suit gives immense bonusses to physical attributes. In fact, it replaces many of them. So the wearer has more opportunity to focus on mental attributes. All well and logical. Besides that, a power armour is nigh impenetrable. That, too. There's no way you can balance it out amongst the other races.