PSA: Get a decent ranged attack.

[Deathtongue]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen tactical situations where it all but begs for a party to seek cover and snipe or at least make a fighting ranged withdrawal or not land from two casters concentrating on upcasted Fly and yet the characters descend and force the rest of the party to rescue their butt or let the other person fend for themselves. We have at least one round of free (or nearly free) protection from melee reprisal and you're throwing it away because you A) don't have a decent ranged attack and B) you can't just wait for two or three rounds?

Yes, I know it's boring and even frustrating for your GMW Barbarian/Fighter with a Flametongue Greatsword to have to plink away with arrows when you have a +1 or even a +0 Dexterity bonus. Even moreso when the ranger or rogue, who can flip-flop between ranged and melee attacks with minimal effectiveness in reduction because of finesse weapons, ends up stealing your thunder.

I don't care. Get a decent ranged attack or at least don't just go running straight into the monsters. Thank you.

[Kane0]

Even STR characters have no excuse. Get a handful of thrown weapons.

Edit: And woe to the adventurer that leaves home without a bootknife. You will get no mercy from me.

[strangebloke]

Even STR characters have no excuse. Get a handful of thrown weapons.

Edit: And woe to the adventurer that leaves home without a bootknife. You will get no mercy from me.

If you have to give up your weapons for any reason, make sure you have a backup bootknife in case they take your other one.

[Finback]

Get a decent ranged attack or at least don't just go running straight into the monsters. Thank you.

I mc'd into celestial warlock with a vengadin 5, so I can do both :D ELDRITCH BLAST OF CROSSNESS.

[Deathtongue]

Hot take: Javelins aren't a decent ranged attack. If you can't reliably hit AT LEAST 65-70+ feet with your ranged attack (a distance most opponents would have to move + Dash action and still not be in melee), you don't have a decent ranged attack.

[Avonar]

Also should note that it might be worth taking the -2/3 to your attack roll to use a longbow instead of a javelin. Works well with extra attack and plenty of ammo to spare.

[Sjappo]

Also should note that it might be worth taking the -2/3 to your attack roll to use a longbow instead of a javelin. Works well with extra attack and plenty of ammo to spare.
Better still,
Javelin for STR based PC is +4 and disadvantage for 1d6+4 (=7,5) at max. 120 ft.
Longbow for STR based PC is +0 for 1d8 (=4,5) at max 150 ft.

I didn't do the math but this will probably be about the same average damage. Plus the option to hit up to 600 ft. away with the longbow.

[DigoDragon]

Get a decent ranged attack or at least don't just go running straight into the monsters. Thank you.

I've ruined many an adventurer's day with rust monsters and fire elementals due to them being ill-prepared for ranged combat. :smallbiggrin:

[Naanomi]

The math doesn’t look very friendly if you dump DEX, especially lacking martial weapon proficiency... Druids, life/forge Clerics...

[OvisCaedo]

The math doesn’t look very friendly if you dump DEX, especially lacking martial weapon proficiency... Druids, life/forge Clerics...

Mmm. I'm not sure how pressed clerics or druids normally feel for their cantrip slots, but I'd assume they each have at least ONE okay ranged attack cantrip that wouldn't be unwise to have. Though druid's list looks pretty sparse even for 60 foot range... and magic stone doesn't scale with level at all???

[Naanomi]

Cantrips are great, but even 120’ is dangerously close to many opponents (edit: and Druids don’t even get that); and out of range if they are using bows and flying/kiting/inaccessible.

But a -1 to Hit longbow doing 1d8-1 damage is just nothing at higher levels; if you have nothing better to do it would be better to seek cover and dodge in most circumstances

[PhoenixPhyre]

Cantrips are great, but even 120’ is dangerously close to many opponents (edit: and Druids don’t even get that); and out of range if they are using bows and flying/kiting/inaccessible.

But a -1 to Hit longbow doing 1d8-1 damage is just nothing at higher levels; if you have nothing better to do it would be better to seek cover and dodge in most circumstances

I guess all my parties have been unusual--it's rare that there's even an option to go beyond 120'. Most fights happen in close quarters anyway (like indoors), and even outdoors there's trees or boulders or other such things.

[Specter]

Yes. Whenever someone is making a Barbarian or Paladin, that's exactly what I tell them.

[Citan]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen tactical situations where it all but begs for a party to seek cover and snipe or at least make a fighting ranged withdrawal or not land from two casters concentrating on upcasted Fly and yet the characters descend and force the rest of the party to rescue their butt or let the other person fend for themselves. We have at least one round of free (or nearly free) protection from melee reprisal and you're throwing it away because you A) don't have a decent ranged attack and B) you can't just wait for two or three rounds?

Yes, I know it's boring and even frustrating for your GMW Barbarian/Fighter with a Flametongue Greatsword to have to plink away with arrows when you have a +1 or even a +0 Dexterity bonus. Even moreso when the ranger or rogue, who can flip-flop between ranged and melee attacks with minimal effectiveness in reduction because of finesse weapons, ends up stealing your thunder.

I don't care. Get a decent ranged attack or at least don't just go running straight into the monsters. Thank you.
I 1000% agree on this. Theorycraft awesomeness of pure melee builds often falls short because of this kind of problem: reach (meaning positioning and mobility for melee) is part of the power. Yet many people on these forums forget about it or plain deny it.^^


Even STR characters have no excuse. Get a handful of thrown weapons.

Edit: And woe to the adventurer that leaves home without a bootknife. You will get no mercy from me.


Hot take: Javelins aren't a decent ranged attack. If you can't reliably hit AT LEAST 65-70+ feet with your ranged attack (a distance most opponents would have to move + Dash action and still not be in melee), you don't have a decent ranged attack.
That's exactly why dual-wielding can be great. Pick Sharpshooter and you're set, you now have 120 feet Javelins to use in the few times where you want to damage a creature yet can't/won't attack with your melee weapon.
Of course you have also the problem of drawing weapons, if DM goes by RAW you're shoe-horned into specific builds when you want to use Javelins regularly. Otherwise it may be better to just pick Archery FS if available and stick with longbow/crossbow, if you have at least 14 DEX it's good enough. ;)

That's also why grapplers with good speed can be great (bringing one specific enemy within pal's reach) as well as all "forced movement" spells (Dissonant Whispers, Earthbind and Ensnaring Strike for flyers, Repelling Blast, Thorns Whip, Command, etc)...

[smcmike]

Meh. Most of my party has good ranged options. When we run into something that I can’t get close to, I’ll just hide or dodge. Not my job.

[strangebloke]

Javelins have a range of 30/80. Flight usually comes with 60 feet of movement. If you can't hit with that and move away, whatever, not everyone's going to be awesome all the time.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Javelins have a range of 30/80.

30/120, not 30/80. I found this out recently and that I had been nerfing a player unnecessarily for an entire campaign. I thought it was 30/60!

[Willie the Duck]

I guess all my parties have been unusual--it's rare that there's even an option to go beyond 120'. Most fights happen in close quarters anyway (like indoors), and even outdoors there's trees or boulders or other such things.

I don't think yours is at all strange. I think any two sides can easily accuse the other of theorycrafting because none of us know what the 'average game' looks like with something like this.


I 1000% agree on this. Theorycraft awesomeness of pure melee builds often falls short because of this kind of problem: reach (meaning positioning and mobility for melee) is part of the power. Yet many people on these forums forget about it or plain deny it.^^

Before we all go around patting ourselves on the back about how awesome we are for seeing the world as it truly is (unlike those other unfortunates who clearly are the dominant breed everywhere else), can you or someone else perhaps point out where people somewhere aren't aware of this? I ask, because as far as I can tell, the absolute dominance of dex builds* in this edition of D&D is perhaps the least well-kept secret in the history of secrets.
*and/or two levels of warlock on top of your cha-based character, even though a warlock is otherwise a rather disfavored class

[DaveOfTheDead]

I mc'd into celestial warlock with a vengadin 5, so I can do both :D ELDRITCH BLAST OF CROSSNESS.

My barbarian mc'd into GOO warlock and now uses Eldritch Blast since he's out of javelins. And he doesn't have to buy or worry about picking up javelins. Don't let the barbarian use magic! (But please do, it's fun)

[Pex]

Ergo I went Sorcadin when originally I hadn't planned on it. Firing a bow with a 10 DX and no rider upon a hit is not a "decent" ranged attack. It is technically better than nothing but not by much. If you don't have a range attack it is important to learn patience. Sometimes you can buff yourself that round or two depending on class. Maybe your action should be Dodge to give enemies disadvantage to attack you.

Your need to get a "decent" range attack depends on the campaign. How often are you needing it but not having it? If it's once or twice a blue moon you can just deal. If it's at least a third or so of your combats and the party is hurting by your lack of options, then consider. If you already have a good DX and are proficient, you should have been doing it already. If you dumped DX you're likely to have a decent enough mental score. Pick up a Cantrip by feat or multiclass.

[Armored Walrus]

Yeah, I don't know if the intended PSA really was "get a decent ranged attack" so much as it was "don't Leroy Jenkins just because you don't have a ranged attack."

[Willie the Duck]

Ergo I went Sorcadin when originally I hadn't planned on it. Firing a bow with a 10 DX and no rider upon a hit is not a "decent" ranged attack. ... Pick up a Cantrip by feat or multiclass.

This tends to be what happens in my experience. Given that wisdom is an important save, a martial who dumps dex (and isn't a paladin) usually has wisdom as their 3rd highest stat after Str and Con, and picking up Magic Initiate (Bless, Guidance, and Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead) with a 12-14 Wisdom is a "decent" ranged attack.

[Asmotherion]

My favorite class is the Warlock for a Reason. I like simple things in my D&D life, like Prestidigitation Cleaning, and Eldritch Blasting Foes from 120 feet away.

As a DM I don't expect everyone to dip two levels in Warlock to get Agonising Eldritch Blasts; That would be Absurd (wile not a bad idea if you're the Face of the party... just sayi'n).

That said, if you have a Decent Mental ability score, Magic Intitiate can give you a good Magical Ranged Spell Attack of Choice (and an utility cantrip or a melee spell attack Cantrip), and you can be a bit more magical, even if you're completelly mundane (I'm talking about you, non-Eldritch Knight Fighter, non Arcane Trickster Rogue and Barbarian with a Decent Charisma Score for Intimidate. Also non multiclass Paladins, Rangers and Monks can profit a lot from Magic Initiate, since they do have a High Mental Ability Score, but no Cantrips. Just Saying.)

If not, get packed on Arrows. I am not going to make it easyer on you, just cause you are sword and board. Some people have dedicated their playstyles to being prepared for ranged combat, and I am going to reward them.

[Honest Tiefling]

This is why I miss the third edition rules for throwing party members into combat. Why have a ranged weapon when you have a dwarven fighter?

[KOLE]

Half my party is exceptionally good at range. Our warlock has the classic Agonizing Eldritch Blast that she used to great effect, and our DM granted our Cavalier fighter a compound bow that he rips at. Should the situation arise, my Dex barb is loaded up with daggers and javelins. Or I can just play my roll and soak the damage for my ranged attackers. Or stand there and curse rapidly at them.

Don’t tell me how to play my character. If I want to be useless outside of melee, its my choice. If you want to be a crappy DM and pick on me for that, fine.

[Sigreid]

Yeah, I don't know if the intended PSA really was "get a decent ranged attack" so much as it was "don't Leroy Jenkins just because you don't have a ranged attack."

OP did say at the end to dodge or whatever if you dont have one. The real message was if the range currently provides your group an advantage, dont bleep it up for everyone else just because you built a face first melee god.

[Ignimortis]

Funny how the game finds ways to penalize melee fighters way more often and reliably than ranged ones. The only problem with ranged weapons is either ammo (ceases to be any problem at level 5 or so) or disadvantage at melee range (easy to switch to another DEX weapon, or with Crossbow Expert not even required to switch). Concurrently, at the same time (level 5 or so) flying enemies become way more common, and you can't just sword them.

[JoeJ]

Don’t tell me how to play my character. If I want to be useless outside of melee, its my choice. If you want to be a crappy DM and pick on me for that, fine.

It's certainly your choice. And I would never disrespect your choice by making it be of no consequence. So if it's your choice to charge a group of intelligent, well organized, and tactically proficient hobgoblins in a prepared position, I would certainly allow you to be turned into a pincushion while you discover that they didn't leave an open path for you to reach them. It's not picking on you to play the monsters as if they want to win.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Funny how the game finds ways to penalize melee fighters way more often and reliably than ranged ones. The only problem with ranged weapons is either ammo (ceases to be any problem at level 5 or so) or disadvantage at melee range (easy to switch to another DEX weapon, or with Crossbow Expert not even required to switch). Concurrently, at the same time (level 5 or so) flying enemies become way more common, and you can't just sword them.

I don't think that's the case, necessarily. Cover and weather are both common enough - Tomb of Annihilation has mechanics for frequent rain that kind of screws bow-users. And the whole advantage of ranged combat - that you're far away from your opponent - is lessened or negated in small spaces or poor lighting, like most dungeons or almost the entirety of Out of the Abyss. Ranged combat is very strong if everything happens during the day on a broad, flat plain and the target is big and doesn't cast spells, but that's not every or even most combats.

[Lombra]

Nah, if I'm playing a reckless barbarian, I'm gonna play a reckless barbarian.

[GlenSmash!]

Since most of my Barbarian's have at least a 14 dex, I just grab a longbow and quiver of arrows as soon as I can. 2 + Prof to hit is pretty decent. Better than not getting a shot at all, and it costs me nothing but some silver. no multiclassing or feat necessary.

[Pex]

This tends to be what happens in my experience. Given that wisdom is an important save, a martial who dumps dex (and isn't a paladin) usually has wisdom as their 3rd highest stat after Str and Con, and picking up Magic Initiate (Bless, Guidance, and Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead) with a 12-14 Wisdom is a "decent" ranged attack.

Those who don't want to rely on a saving throw can go druid for Guidance, Produce Flame, and Goodberry. Lump it when facing a fire resistant/immune creature.

I wonder how many people forget or don't realize druids get Guidance. I know I did.

[Citan]

I don't think yours is at all strange. I think any two sides can easily accuse the other of theorycrafting because none of us know what the 'average game' looks like with something like this.



Before we all go around patting ourselves on the back about how awesome we are for seeing the world as it truly is (unlike those other unfortunates who clearly are the dominant breed everywhere else), can you or someone else perhaps point out where people somewhere aren't aware of this? I ask, because as far as I can tell, the absolute dominance of dex builds* in this edition of D&D is perhaps the least well-kept secret in the history of secrets.
*and/or two levels of warlock on top of your cha-based character, even though a warlock is otherwise a rather disfavored class
I'm sorry but it's not what I said at all.
I said "reach and mobility are (a strong) part of the power".
This and the assertion of "Dex builds are totally dominating" (which I don't agree with*) are very different things.
Plus, you know, someone that wants to melee and specialized into it will have exactly the same problems whether he's using a finesse weapon or not (Paladin, Ranger, Eldricht Knight, Bladesinger) that's also why Monks shine (especially 4e) because of built-in extra mobility. Sure, being a DEX guy means you usually also have the required proficiency in longbow, so you can land regular weapon attacks without struggling. But all the features you stacked to be a beast in melee will be equally useless so it's not like you can really brag about it in the face of your STR melee pal.

* I usually prefer DEX builds for various reasons, one of which being that I rarely play STR-oriented classes, but I recognize the strengths of STR builds... :smallwink:

[Tanarii]

Funny how the game finds ways to penalize melee fighters way more often and reliably than ranged ones. The only problem with ranged weapons is either ammo (ceases to be any problem at level 5 or so) or disadvantage at melee range (easy to switch to another DEX weapon, or with Crossbow Expert not even required to switch). Concurrently, at the same time (level 5 or so) flying enemies become way more common, and you can't just sword them.
If missile combat was either "realistic" (a bad word I know), it would require something like:
- an AC penalty for the inability to parry effectively
- a choice between a penalty to hit if trying to dodge, or a further penalty to AC so you can standing still and aim
- much lower rate of fire
- penalty for firing into melee

Some of these exist in most early RPGs, because realism but also because it's balanced. Taking out penalties to fire into melee and rate of fire may make things more "fun" for ranged attackers, but it introduces major balance issues. (Similar things have happens with spellcasting over editions.)

[KOLE]

It's certainly your choice. And I would never disrespect your choice by making it be of no consequence. So if it's your choice to charge a group of intelligent, well organized, and tactically proficient hobgoblins in a prepared position, I would certainly allow you to be turned into a pincushion while you discover that they didn't leave an open path for you to reach them. It's not picking on you to play the monsters as if they want to win.

And I respect that! That’s what I want. Hopefully, I’ll be smart enough not to take that Hobgoblin bait.

I do want every DM to run monsters like they’re playing for keeps. I just don’t want to be forced to accept any play style.

[Tanarii]

I do want every DM to run monsters like they’re playing for keeps. I just don’t want to be forced to accept any play style.Of course, if the play style is a campaign set outdoors in wide open plains, it's definitely not ideal to make a foot soldier as opposed to a horse archer. Similarly if it's cramped caverns and dungeons, making a long range class cannon isn't really a good idea.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Of course, if the play style is a campaign set outdoors in wide open plains, it's definitely not ideal to make a foot soldier as opposed to a horse archer. Similarly if it's cramped caverns and dungeons, making a long range class cannon isn't really a good idea.

Personally, I've seen much more of the second than the first. All the nimbleness and superior range doesn't matter if you're locked in a knife-fight or if there are a bunch of ways the enemies could come.

Although that random encounter with a couple of Peryton really hurt when they beat us on initiative and charged...poor gnome wizard got knocked unconscious on the first turn. Doesn't help when the DM rolls a bunch of crits (in the open, his dice are lethal).

[Tanarii]

Personally, I've seen much more of the second than the first. All the nimbleness and superior range doesn't matter if you're locked in a knife-fight or if there are a bunch of ways the enemies could come.I find it's more common than not in D&D in general to be fighting in relatively tight quarters. But sometimes adventures or "wandering monster" encounters are set in fairly open-ish outdoors locations where lots of maneuverability is easily possible while still somehow remaining effectively engaged with the enemy, in which case skirmishing becomes very effective. But even so these often have areas where the enemy can retreat off the "edge" of the battlefield area into cover, and then either turn the combat into a running Chase scene through the woods, or just disappear into them completely. Sometimes that's all PCs want, other times that's a disaster. :smallamused:

[HolyAvenger7]

So would the opposite PSA also be true - ranged characters need a good way to survive when melee distance is all that's available?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

So would the opposite PSA also be true - ranged characters need a good way to survive when melee distance is all that's available?

Yes. Every character needs to be able to contribute somehow, no matter the situation.

[strangebloke]

So would the opposite PSA also be true - ranged characters need a good way to survive when melee distance is all that's available?

I'd argue that it's more important. Most MM monsters are melee, which means that the most common enemy strategy will be to close with you and make it impossible/difficult for you to run away.

[GlenSmash!]

So would the opposite PSA also be true - ranged characters need a good way to survive when melee distance is all that's available?

For Dex based character's this is pretty easy. Often as easy as carrying a Rapier.

[JoeJ]

So would the opposite PSA also be true - ranged characters need a good way to survive when melee distance is all that's available?

Absolutely. When that @#!*$% thief rogue pulls the wrong lever and the whole party gets dumped into a garbage heap directly in front of an angry otyugh (the barbarian landed right in its dinner), you don't want to be just standing there with a dumb look on your face. You'll need a melee weapon, crossbow expert, or a spell that you can use up close and personal.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Absolutely. When that @#!*$% thief rogue pulls the wrong lever and the whole party gets dumped into a garbage heap directly in front of an angry otyugh (the barbarian landed right in its dinner), you don't want to be just standing there with a dumb look on your face. You'll need a melee weapon, crossbow expert, or a spell that you can use up close and personal.

Or a reliable escape (misty step, etc.) Or better yet, both.

[MaxWilson]

Absolutely. When that @#!*$% thief rogue pulls the wrong lever and the whole party gets dumped into a garbage heap directly in front of an angry otyugh (the barbarian landed right in its dinner), you don't want to be just standing there with a dumb look on your face. You'll need a melee weapon, crossbow expert, or a spell that you can use up close and personal.

Or Athletics Expertise. Firing at a prone target 5' away cancels out disadvantage for using a ranged attack against a non-incapacitated target.

Obviously though it's best to be prepared for every contingency that you can manage. Not just ranged vs. melee combat--everything.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Those who don't want to rely on a saving throw can go druid for Guidance, Produce Flame, and Goodberry. Lump it when facing a fire resistant/immune creature.

I wonder how many people forget or don't realize druids get Guidance. I know I did.

There's another thing that most people forget - the range of produce flame is only 30ft. Not 30ft, disadvantage at 90. 30 feet period.

[Edgerunner]

Groups always look at me like I'm Crazy when I "Go prone" vs ranged enemies. But they see why it works eventually.

And groups get very upset when I DM and the Enemy "Go prone" vs their ranged attacks.

[Coidzor]

Better still,
Javelin for STR based PC is +4 and disadvantage for 1d6+4 (=7,5) at max. 120 ft.
Longbow for STR based PC is +0 for 1d8 (=4,5) at max 150 ft.

I didn't do the math but this will probably be about the same average damage. Plus the option to hit up to 600 ft. away with the longbow.

Assuming a level 1 Fighter with 16 STR and 8 Dex, that gives us +5 to hit with a Javelin and +1 to hit with a Longbow. Average damage per regular hit is 6.5 for the Javelin and 3.5 for the Longbow. Let's say that this level 1 Fighter is going up against a Goblin.

Javelin DPR vs AC 15: 6.45 normally, 9.5525(Advantage), 3.3475(Disadvantage)

vs.

Longbow DPR vs AC 15: 3.25 normally, 5.4975(Advantage), 1.0025(Disadvantage)

So the Longbow's normal DPR is just slightly above the Javelin's Disadvantage DPR, but the Longbow's normal range exceeds the Javelin's disadvantage range, and once you get into truly long range combat for the longbow, the Javelin can't be used at all, so some DPR is better than 0.

At the ranges we're looking at, 60-120 feet, the Javelin's chance to hit is about 30.25% due to Disadvantage versus the Longbow's 35% chance to hit.

Bump the Fighter's STR up to 12-13, though, and the hit chance becomes 45% at normal engagement ranges and 20.25% at extreme range, and the DPR increases to 4.95 normally, 2.0475 with Disadvantage.

At ranges where a Javelin can be used, there's also the factor of the potential for shield use, which can't be accounted for when just looking at DPR alone. A Fighter with between 8 and 12 Dexterity in Chain Mail has AC 16 when using both hands to fight with a Longbow but their AC is 18 when using a Shield and throwing Javelins.

I don't know a quick way of comparing that, other than I suppose coming up with 14 as the standard constitution score of a front line fighting type so that a level 1 Fighter has 12 HP and then determining the DPR and estimated rounds it would take a Goblin to kill them vs. estimated rounds it would take them to kill the goblin, and even that's not all that quick.


For Dex based character's this is pretty easy. Often as easy as carrying a Rapier.

Even a dagger or short sword is perfectly fine.

[TheUser]

This is actually one of the reasons I have so much difficulty rolling paladins as a monoclass; I love ranged capabilities and paladins seem to have very few*

[MaxWilson]

Groups always look at me like I'm Crazy when I "Go prone" vs ranged enemies. But they see why it works eventually.

Even more interestingly, you can choose to go prone even when incapacitated or restrained, e.g. by a Net. At that point you might as well go prone to cancel out the advantage ranged attackers are getting on you already.

[Naanomi]

Groups always look at me like I'm Crazy when I "Go prone" vs ranged enemies. But they see why it works eventually.

And groups get very upset when I DM and the Enemy "Go prone" vs their ranged attacks.
Drunken monks can stand up easier, so should always consider dropping down at the end of each round

[GlenSmash!]

Drunken monks can stand up easier

Proof that I am not a Monk. Drunken me will just end up back on the ground.

[Xetheral]

If you have to give up your weapons for any reason, make sure you have a backup bootknife in case they take your other one.

So, continuing that line of thought...

There exists an x, x>n for all n in N, such that x is the minimum number of bootknives an adventurer should carry?

[Pex]

There's another thing that most people forget - the range of produce flame is only 30ft. Not 30ft, disadvantage at 90. 30 feet period.

Oh.

That.

Yeah, uh, never mind. I haven't played a 5E druid, so . . .

Look! Squirrel!

[PhoenixPhyre]

So, continuing that line of thought...

There exists an x, x>n for all n in N, such that x is the minimum number of bootknives an adventurer should carry?

Error, non converging sequence detected. Solution found: x = -2,147,483,648. :smallsmile:

[Xetheral]

Error, non converging sequence detected. Solution found: x = -2,147,483,648. :smallsmile:

I mean, I never restricted x to be in N (or even R or C), so it could well be a discrete value if x is in (e.g.) *R.

But it would indeed be difficult for guards to take -2,147,483,648 bootknives from you to leave you with zero. :)

[JoeJ]

Obviously though it's best to be prepared for every contingency that you can manage. Not just ranged vs. melee combat--everything.

The advice I'd give is don't do just one thing. Assume that every now and again either the enemy or the environment (or a combination of both) will completely neutralize your best ability and be ready with a plan B. And thinking about C, D, and E probably won't hurt either.

[Lombra]

Yes. Every character needs to be able to contribute somehow, no matter the situation.

I can't agree with that. Not being good at something is part of a character too. Not havig an option for a situation makes the game better, not worse.

A character that plays to its strengths is a good character, but a character that plays to its weaknesses is a great character.

[diplomancer]

Paladins have great mobility. With find greater steed, the best mobility in the game, probably. Get the mounted combatant feat to help your buddy stay alive. Im playing a Paladin from 1 to 20 and there have been about 2 situations where I had problems closing in and had to use javelins, but that was it. And I find attacking from afar to be both boring and unsportive.

[smcmike]

Paladins have great mobility. With find greater steed, the best mobility in the game, probably. Get the mounted combatant feat to help your buddy stay alive. Im playing a Paladin from 1 to 20 and there have been about 2 situations where I had problems closing in and had to use javelins, but that was it. And I find attacking from afar to be both boring and unsportive.

Yes. The correct response when confronted with an enemy that insists on fighting from a distance is to ask him to come out and fight like a man.

[diplomancer]

also, misty-stepping on top of a roof with your warhorse from find steed to get to the cowardly archers is just awesome. I remember the DM's face going "wait, what?" and going to check the text of the find steed spell