Question about dwarf druid with dwarven fortitude

[Belier]

If I take dodge action in wildshape, can I use the beast hit dice to restore hit points?

Whenever you take the Dodge action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1).

In wildshape we do retain all our features.

[sir_argo]

I'd say no. A multiclass wizard/Barbarian 5/8 would have 5d6+8d12 hit dice. If your dwarf dodges, he would pick either 1d6 or 1d12, depending on what he has left in that pool. When you wildshape, that pool of "hit dice" does not change. The hit dice of the form you take doesn't affect that.

[Belier]

I'd say no. A multiclass wizard/Barbarian 5/8 would have 5d6+8d12 hit dice. If your dwarf dodges, he would pick either 1d6 or 1d12, depending on what he has left in that pool. When you wildshape, that pool of "hit dice" does not change. The hit dice of the form you take doesn't affect that.

But at the same time it says
When you transform, you assume the beast's hit points and Hit Dice.

Since I am assuming the hit dices, I got them.

I'd say yes.

Then if you take earth elemental at level 10 and goes for the durable feat you gain 15 hp per dodge while innthe earth elemental form. I'd say that I made this thing even tankier than before lol.

[Belier]

I thought about it also a barbarian with these 2 feats at level 20 and 24 con would gain more hp than his hitdice.
Hitdice of 12, without rolling you gain 14 + 7 on each dodge.

[JNAProductions]

I thought about it also a barbarian with these 2 feats at level 20 and 24 con would gain more hp than his hitdice.
Hitdice of 12, without rolling you gain 14 + 7 on each dodge.

How do you get 14+7? I get where +7 comes from, but where are you pulling 14 from?

[OvisCaedo]

How do you get 14+7? I get where +7 comes from, but where are you pulling 14 from?

The durable feat. "When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2)."

...I'll admit, I'm actually not sure myself how I'd read it when it comes to cases of that minimum being bigger than the die being rolled to start with, and it's also sort of vague whether or not that minimum is before or including the fact that you'd normally add con mod.

[JNAProductions]

The durable feat. "When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2)."

...I'll admit, I'm actually not sure myself how I'd read it when it comes to cases of that minimum being bigger than the die being rolled to start with, and it's also sort of vague whether or not that minimum is before or including the fact that you'd normally add con mod.

Ah. Neat.

Interesting find, and honestly? I'm okay with a level 20 player gaining a lot of HP from Hit Dice.

Edit: Wait, is it the minimum DIE ROLL is 2*Con mod, or the minimum RESULT is 2*Con mod?

[Belier]

Ah. Neat.

Interesting find, and honestly? I'm okay with a level 20 player gaining a lot of HP from Hit Dice.

Edit: Wait, is it the minimum DIE ROLL is 2*Con mod, or the minimum RESULT is 2*Con mod?

The minimum you get from rolling the dice is twice the con mod, then you add the con as usual. End result for a +7 con barbarian is 7*2(roll)+7

[DarkKnightJin]

The minimum you get from rolling the dice is twice the con mod, then you add the con as usual. End result for a +7 con barbarian is 7*2(roll)+7

Considering this Barbarian with 24 in Connis an extreme edge case, I don't think it'd be that big a deal to allow that. It'd make the Durable feat worth taking for them.

[ThePolarBear]

The minimum you get from rolling the dice is twice the con mod, then you add the con as usual. End result for a +7 con barbarian is 7*2(roll)+7

The minimum amount of hp you regain by rolling is Con x 2. Considering that the normal amount of HP regained by rolling HD + Con, the result is that you either keep the number you rolled or Con, pick the highest.

"rolling" is the same as for Cutting words and any other time when you roll: you either change the roll "result" ("keep the result of the dice or 2 times yor consitution modifier, whichever is higher"), or you take the roll with all the modifiers applied.

Anyway, you can't use Dwarven Resilience while wildshaped: You are no longer a Dwarf, so you lack the prerequisites for the feat.

[Aett_Thorn]

Let's take a look at the actual language of Durable, shall we?


Hardy and resilient, you gain the following benefits:

Increase your Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).

This might not be RAI, but certainly you can make a case that the feat specifies only the roll part is where the minimum comes into play. And reading it this way actually makes it a decent feat, I think. Now, it could definitely be clearer (WotC not writing something clearly? NEVER!), and that second bullet should either say:

1) When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, you regain hit points equal to the roll + you Con modifier or twice your Con modifier, whichever is higher

or

2) When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you gain from rolling the dice (before adding your Con modifier) is equal to twice your Con modifier.


Now, I think that clearly the RAI is for the first one. However, if that's the case, the feat is pretty cruddy. So I think that the second way to read it wouldn't unbalance it as a houserule.


As for being able to use Dwarven Resilience in Wild Shape form, I see no reason why you couldn't. Certainly you need to be a Dwarf to PICK the feat. But since Wild Shape allows you to:


You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can't use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.

There's no reason that a Dwarven Druid in bear form couldn't use it. There's nothing about being a bear that would stop you from using it. The new form can dodge, and could regain HP from using dice on a short rest. This isn't like a winged Tiefling variant-Druid that wouldn't be allowed to fly in bear form since it doesn't have wings.

[Zalabim]

On a 24 Constitution Barbarian, Durable would increase the average healing from a hit die from 13.5 to 15.25, or 1.75 HP per hit die spent. On a 18-19 Constitution Wizard, Durable would increase the average healing from a hit die from 7.5 to 8.5, an average of 1 HP per hit die spent. Bump that to 20 Constitution and it's 8.5 going to 10.166~, or 1.66 HP per hit die. Basically, Durable is an alright choice if you use your hit dice to heal and have 19 Constitution, since it'll take you to 20. That's kind of mirrors Tough, which is alright if you don't use your hit dice to heal and/or have a Constitution of 20.

For the record, if they mean the die, they'll say the die. If they mean the total, they say the result or the roll. Durable is clearly not taking about the number rolled on the die(physically), but the HP healed by the hit die(the game term). If you play it as giving the Con 18 Wizard 12 HP on each die, or the Con 24 Barbarian 21 HP, then the half-feat would be many times more valuable than Tough.

[Belier]

Let's take a look at the actual language of Durable, shall we?



This might not be RAI, but certainly you can make a case that the feat specifies only the roll part is where the minimum comes into play. And reading it this way actually makes it a decent feat, I think. Now, it could definitely be clearer (WotC not writing something clearly? NEVER!), and that second bullet should either say:

1) When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, you regain hit points equal to the roll + you Con modifier or twice your Con modifier, whichever is higher

or

2) When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you gain from rolling the dice (before adding your Con modifier) is equal to twice your Con modifier.


Now, I think that clearly the RAI is for the first one. However, if that's the case, the feat is pretty cruddy. So I think that the second way to read it wouldn't unbalance it as a houserule.


As for being able to use Dwarven Resilience in Wild Shape form, I see no reason why you couldn't. Certainly you need to be a Dwarf to PICK the feat. But since Wild Shape allows you to:



There's no reason that a Dwarven Druid in bear form couldn't use it. There's nothing about being a bear that would stop you from using it. The new form can dodge, and could regain HP from using dice on a short rest. This isn't like a winged Tiefling variant-Druid that wouldn't be allowed to fly in bear form since it doesn't have wings.

Besides, compare it to the capstone of the life cleric where you get to always heal for the max roll, you do still always add your wisdom on curewounds and Healing words + your disciple of life feature.

To me, durable half feat is exactly the same per RAI(I would not call it houserule. Your roll is modified with the feat text, then instead of adding WIS like a cleric spell, you add your CON mod to the total.

There is also something noteworthy that don't involve the durable feat and it is that you could get 2 level of warlock and ritual caster, or 3 level of warlock and take the gift of the ever living one as one of the two invocation and now you allways roll for max + con when you take the dodge action.
The feat is also interesting with a monk/dwarf since you can use ki to dodge as a bonus action and heal yourself.

Overall, I think that dwarven fortitude is better than people think, and that durable is also not as bad as people see it. Besides, for moon Druids, people usually don't see any feat to make them much more usefull but now I found out that Hill Dwarf is probly the best moon druid to get some Healing without consuming the precious spells slots and keeping some versatility if you revert the form. What is nice is that if you use all your hit dices in beast form, you still have your humans dices if you revert and you can refresh the beast dices with a new wildshape use. You can heal twice if you consume a spell slot + dodge action, meaning you may conserv your forms longer, and there is an opening for cheese also, letting the player says, I use the dodge action out of combat and roll my hit dices.

[Belier]

On a 24 Constitution Barbarian, Durable would increase the average healing from a hit die from 13.5 to 15.25, or 1.75 HP per hit die spent. On a 18-19 Constitution Wizard, Durable would increase the average healing from a hit die from 7.5 to 8.5, an average of 1 HP per hit die spent. Bump that to 20 Constitution and it's 8.5 going to 10.166~, or 1.66 HP per hit die. Basically, Durable is an alright choice if you use your hit dice to heal and have 19 Constitution, since it'll take you to 20. That's kind of mirrors Tough, which is alright if you don't use your hit dice to heal and/or have a Constitution of 20.

For the record, if they mean the die, they'll say the die. If they mean the total, they say the result or the roll. Durable is clearly not taking about the number rolled on the die(physically), but the HP healed by the hit die(the game term). If you play it as giving the Con 18 Wizard 12 HP on each die, or the Con 24 Barbarian 21 HP, then the half-feat would be many times more valuable than Tough.

You know what on second thought I think you guys may be right, but WOTC is really unclear with their way of wording it and I ain't thinking the way I interpreted it break the game. Did it make it better than Lucky or sharpshooter? I know it is a half feat but over all if it's only minimum Healing = twice the con it's clearly not as good as replace the die with twice your CON if it is the highest of the 2. The way I see it, without being gamebreaking make the feat decent(decent as not being utherly broken). The first way to see it, makes the feat botherline useless unless you are at 19 con and want 20 and you are already proficient in con save.

[saucerhead]

Skip the durable feat and get yourself a periapt of wound closure, it works great with Dwarven Fortitude feat.

[ThePolarBear]

As for being able to use Dwarven Resilience in Wild Shape form, I see no reason why you couldn't. Certainly you need to be a Dwarf to PICK the feat.

And to use it.
PHB, p165, "Feats": "If you ever lose a feat's prerequisite, you can't use that feat until you regain the prerequisite."
Being a dwarf is the prerequisite. Not being a dwarf means you lost the prerequisite, thus you are unable to use the feat.


Besides, for moon Druids [...] You can heal twice if you consume a spell slot + dodge action, meaning you may conserv your forms longer, and there is an opening for cheese also, letting the player says, I use the dodge action out of combat and roll my hit dices.

See above why you can't.