The collapse of Channel Awesome

[No brains]

I know everything falls apart, but it is sad to see this happen in such an ugly way. Thanks for all the fish Channel Awesome.

[GloatingSwine]

The lesson is that the ugliness was there all along, it just took a while for the hollow rotten tree to fall.

Channel Awesome isn’t ending in an ugly way, it lived ugly and we’re just finding out about it now.

[Cikomyr]

"Collapse"? Did something happen recently?

[GloatingSwine]

"Collapse"? Did something happen recently?

Basically all the video producers except Guru Larry have ****ed off and he's only staying for comedy effect.


There's a big long list of all the many ways the channel has been mismanaged for a long time here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/edit?usp=sharing).

[Vinyadan]

What is Channel Awesome?

[GloatingSwine]

What is Channel Awesome?

The website that the Nostalgia Critic was on.

[Cikomyr]

The website that the Nostalgia Critic was on.

*Was*? Doug Walker walked?

[GloatingSwine]

*Was*? Doug Walker walked?

Rumoured, but the site is basically ****ed. As far as I can tell it's just Doug, Rob, Brad, and Guru Larry left.

[Aotrs Commander]

*Was*? Doug Walker walked?

I'm not sure. There appears to be some suggestion that he has in the last couple of days, but I couldn't find anything concrete or official.

According to Guru Larry's twitter, it is implied that only he and Brad Jones are left (Larry appears to be staying for comedic value (and this sad situation needs at least some levening, frankly) and Brad, Larry says, is apparently staying in defiance of all the people doxxing and sending him death threats. I feel sorry for Brad, actually, seemingly caught in the middle.)

[Alabenson]

*Was*? Doug Walker walked?

At the moment it's not entirely clear. Apparently Doug Walker had changed his personal Facebook page to indicate that he had "worked" at Channel Awesome instead of currently being a producer. There was a new Nostalgia Critic video posted subsequent to this, but that doesn't really prove anything one way or another as they reportedly maintained a buffer of 2-3 videos.

[tensai_oni]

The lesson is that the ugliness was there all along, it just took a while for the hollow rotten tree to fall.

Channel Awesome isn’t ending in an ugly way, it lived ugly and we’re just finding out about it now.

Sadly, this.

For a long time I knew Doug Walker was self-obsessed and ignorant of his own shortcomings (not unlike Tommy Wiseau who is his favorite punching bag, but Wiseau is actually more self-aware), and the site was run in questionable ways. Little did I know that was just the tip of the iceberg.

I only feel bad for the decent people caught in th backlash.

[Kitten Champion]

As someone who followed Blistered Thumbs - which was barely mentioned in the CA universe and kind of clumsily implemented against the TGWTG site - when they were a thing, and seeing all the effort that those reviewers/content creators were putting into it only to see them get tossed aside without even informing them and feeding some vague line about it coming back in the future that obviously never came up again. My general perception of CA management was that it was a Clown Fiesta

Though, from my experience, that kind of callous indifference and petty cheapness is nothing strange in terms of these kinds of companies where it's basically one long terrible internship. What I wasn't expecting was the degree of toxicity and hostility directed at anyone clearly marked as too weak or unimportant to bother acknowledging.

The Japanese have a term which I think should be more in the general parlance, "black company". It appears to fit here.

[Velaryon]

So the various people that have left - are they continuing their videos on their own, simply without further affiliation with Channel Awesome?


(Okay, what I really want to know is: is Todd in the Shadows still going to do videos?)

[zimmerwald1915]

The Japanese have a term which I think should be more in the general parlance, "black company". It appears to fit here.
Implying there's something special about this melange of blatant exploitation and toxic, manipulative, and heavy-handed labor discipline? There isn't. It's what anyone who can get away with it eventually sinks to, and with the collapse of the strike rate as well as other indicators of labor militancy over the last decades, has gotten and will get more common and more brazen. It was normal and is being normalized.

[Kish]

What is Channel Awesome?
This (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZFkR__B3Mk9EYQglvislMUx9HWvWhOaBP820UBa4dA/preview#) document will tell you what happened. Every ugly bit of it.

[Rynjin]

So the various people that have left - are they continuing their videos on their own, simply without further affiliation with Channel Awesome?


(Okay, what I really want to know is: is Todd in the Shadows still going to do videos?)

Todd's still doing stuff, yeah. He just released a video about "God's Plan" by Drake a few days ago. Everybody else is still doing their own stuff too.

I'd mostly stopped following the site already when I heard about all this last week. I could honestly forgive the mismanagement, Doug has always seemed incompetent and I'm willing to forgive stupidity over malice with stuff like not providing water on set in a ****ing desert.

The cover-ups of repeated sexual harassment claims by multiple creators against multiple different creators and that whole disgusting revelation about JewWario though...that I can't forgive.

[Tengu_temp]

Doug is incompetent, arrogant and deluded into thinking he's an amazing filmmaker, but he's the lesser evil here. Most of the blame lies on Mike Michaud, the main perpetrator of various distusting and abusive behaviours towards CA contributors.

This doesn't mean that Doug and Rob are blameless, however. At the very least, they're guilty of tolerating Michaud's behaviour instead of nipping it in the bud.


So the various people that have left - are they continuing their videos on their own, simply without further affiliation with Channel Awesome?


(Okay, what I really want to know is: is Todd in the Shadows still going to do videos?)

I'm pretty sure Nostalgia Critic is the only person on CA who gets most of his hits through that website. Everyone else is watched either through their own website, or directly from youtube. So don't worry, none of them are going to disappear. If anything, I noticed a trend of creators improving once they're no longer associated with the site - look how much better Lindsay's stuff became once she was allowed to spread her wings and didn't have to be Nostalgia Chick anymore.

[Rynjin]

Speaking of, her third Hobbit video just came out and it's...it's interesting.

[Lord Raziere]

whats the status of Linkara in all this? thats the one I care about. he always seemed professional in what he did.

[Rynjin]

whats the status of Linkara in all this? thats the one I care about. he always seemed professional in what he did.

He left a couple of weeks ago. Nobody has been particularly impacted by this in terms of views. Even the relative no-names like MikeJ have reportedly only lost about 4% of their traffic.

Which is kind of the real nail in the coffin for "Channel Awesome". Banding together is no longer necessary or even particularly helpful to you. All the views come from your own site or Youtube channel anyway.

[Aotrs Commander]

whats the status of Linkara in all this? thats the one I care about. he always seemed professional in what he did.

Pretty sure he more or less started the ball rolling with the final departure. (It's when I heard about it all.) He'd stayed on as long as he did, he said, trying to see if he could affect changes from the inside, but couldn't carry on anymore. After he went, that seemed to start the mass exodus rolling (probably because he was one of big names (as it goes) and generally has a reputation for being a decent, stand-up bloke and I suspect peple figures "well, if HE'S going...)

(I noticed the last time he made his occasional "previous on" segments, he'd basically tried to include new talent, which I thought was a nice though.)

He might not have been the first of this exodus, but I suspect if nothing else, his departure was an accelerant.



He left a couple of weeks ago. Nobody has been particularly impacted by this in terms of views. Even the relative no-names like MikeJ have reportedly only lost about 4% of their traffic.

Which is kind of the real nail in the coffin for "Channel Awesome". Banding together is no longer necessary or even particularly helpful to you. All the views come from your own site or Youtube channel anyway.

I suspect that, after the mess with Lupa and Phelous, I might not have been the only person to start watching everyone on their own channels/websites, rather than through CA (where I only watched NC).

[Anonymouswizard]

Read through most of the list of stuff. Wow. There's a lot there that just strikes me as wrong, and I have no experience of internet videoing.


Implying there's something special about this melange of blatant exploitation and toxic, manipulative, and heavy-handed labor discipline? There isn't. It's what anyone who can get away with it eventually sinks to, and with the collapse of the strike rate as well as other indicators of labor militancy over the last decades, has gotten and will get more common and more brazen. It was normal and is being normalized.

I would just like to say, this is one of the reasons I'm glad my new place tries to make sure it's employees are happy. I actually got asked if I was okay doing ten hour shifts on consecutive days, the current agreement is that I get a day off if I do, but if it's just a 6-8 hour shift (kitchen work, the hours vary like that here) on one of the days then I can probably work three or more straight. On top of that I've been given overtime until the company decides my final hours, as one of my superiors noticed that I enjoy the work and was more than happy to drag myself in at seven thirty.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'd mostly stopped following the site already when I heard about all this last week. I could honestly forgive the mismanagement, Doug has always seemed incompetent and I'm willing to forgive stupidity over malice with stuff like not providing water on set in a ****ing desert.
Stuff like this doesn't happen on a SAG set. . .


The cover-ups of repeated sexual harassment claims by multiple creators against multiple different creators
Stuff like this does, but they're working on it.


and that whole disgusting revelation about JewWario though...that I can't forgive.
I'm not familiar with that story.


I would just like to say, this is one of the reasons I'm glad my new place tries to make sure it's employees are happy. I actually got asked if I was okay doing ten hour shifts on consecutive days, the current agreement is that I get a day off if I do, but if it's just a 6-8 hour shift (kitchen work, the hours vary like that here) on one of the days then I can probably work three or more straight. On top of that I've been given overtime until the company decides my final hours, as one of my superiors noticed that I enjoy the work and was more than happy to drag myself in at seven thirty.
There's solid science to say that productivity falls off rapidly after about 40 hours each week. While there are exceptional people who don't have to push themselves to go harder and longer, they are very much in the minority and it is both unfair to hold other workers to that standard and unsound to build a labor policy around such people. There are good reasons the 8-hour day and the 5-day week were first a common labor demand and then the standard. For a while. Givebacks have mostly abolished them in practice.

Your boss in particular is doing a standard maneuver, looking to take an inch (the short shift between two long ones) now and a mile (no days off no matter how long the shifts get) later, and it sounds like she's playing on your pride to get you to go along. "Actually asking" doesn't make it better, and it's a sad commentary on where we are that it can seem like it does.

Also, what do you mean by the bold? Do you stop getting overtime once the company decides your final schedule, no matter how many hours you end up being scheduled for, or end up working?

[GloatingSwine]

I'm not familiar with that story.


Justin was grooming female fans for sex at cons.

The management knew and took no action.

It stayed sub rosa then he killed himself so it was quietly forgotten until the general dissatisfaction with the site boiled over.

[zimmerwald1915]

Justin was grooming female fans for sex at cons.

The management knew and took no action.

It stayed sub rosa then he killed himself so it was quietly forgotten until the general dissatisfaction with the site boiled over.
Another one, huh? Oy vey.

[Alabenson]

Doug is incompetent, arrogant and deluded into thinking he's an amazing filmmaker, but he's the lesser evil here. Most of the blame lies on Mike Michaud, the main perpetrator of various distusting and abusive behaviours towards CA contributors.

This doesn't mean that Doug and Rob are blameless, however. At the very least, they're guilty of tolerating Michaud's behaviour instead of nipping it in the bud.

To be fair, there isn't anything Doug or Rob could really do. A huge part of the problem was that, for reasons I cannot possibly fathom, Doug signed over the rights to the Nostalgia Critic character when Michaud was made CEO of Channel Awesome. Meaning that Michaud had all the power in that relationship unless Doug was willing to walk away from what he had been doing for years.

[Ramza00]

Speaking of, her third Hobbit video just came out and it's...it's interesting.

Here is the link to the video.

[I am going to talk about non CA stuff but instead Lindsay Ellis stuff and Lindsay Ellis used to work for CA as the Nostalgia Chick]

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Warners (Part 3/2)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7t_g5QObs

The 3rd video is not about the Hobbit movie at all. It is about things that happened outside the Hobbit movie with the film company, new zealand the country / goverment, individuals in new zealand, and lots of other stuff involving nostalgia, how we view things as children vs adults, and a whole lot of other themes.

The 3rd video does not talk about Channel Awesome at all, and Lindsay is not making any indirect comments about CA. But if you know Lindsay's history outside of her videos, if you have read the 60 page document (which I have not read all 60 pages), you know the issue of independent contractors vs actors, and how companies can take advantage of people and do unethical things. Well Lindsay has some personal experience with this stuff. Lindsay does a good job of being divorced from the situation but still showing what happened from 2010 to 2018 with "The Hobbit Law" and so on. This stuff is complicated and she does a good job of showing that it is complicated and not trying to cast any specific person as a villain and so on.

Note while the 3rd video is not about the Hobbit movie at all, it is a nice book end of the 1st video, part 1 of 2, Lindsay Ellis did on the Hobbit and specifically the beginning and end of said video.

(I am done with explaining stuff)

-----



(Pivots to tongue in cheek posting.)

Now wouldn't a better title have been the, The Scouring of the X (I do not know what X should be), alluding to The Scouring of the Shire instead of The Desolation of Warners alluding to The Desolation of Smaug?


To be fair, there isn't anything Doug or Rob could really do. A huge part of the problem was that, for reasons I cannot possibly fathom, Doug signed over the rights to the Nostalgia Critic character when Michaud was made CEO of Channel Awesome. Meaning that Michaud had all the power in that relationship unless Doug was willing to walk away from what he had been doing for years.

I get where you are coming from, but you always have power and you always have agency. You have the ability to make choices, you may just not like the results of where any of those choices will lead to.

Lots of good philosophers on this stuff, numerous philosophers but here are a few with pretty quotes Jean Jacques Rousseau "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains. One man thinks himself the master of others, but remains more of a slave than they are." Personally I think Jean Paul Sartre was more right on this matter when he stated mankind is "condemned to be free". We are constantly given choices and these choices will organize towards goals and values that we appreciate, and these choices are agonizing and painful for sometimes we can't have it all and we must make a choice. And by making our choices we are invoking into the world the values that we choose. As Sartre says "
Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does. It is up to you to give [life] a meaning."

Blaming everything on others is taking away your responsibility away from the situation, this is a form of "bad faith." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith_(existentialism)

Repeating the quote from earlier.


To be fair, there isn't anything Doug or Rob could really do. A huge part of the problem was that, for reasons I cannot possibly fathom, Doug signed over the rights to the Nostalgia Critic character when Michaud was made CEO of Channel Awesome. Meaning that Michaud had all the power in that relationship unless Doug was willing to walk away from what he had been doing for years.

Doug and Rob could have done things, they may not have changed the outcome of the situation, but since they felt little could be done they were fine with the status quo. They were fine with the status quo where they made money and people were getting hurt and being taking advantage of, and they knew about it, yet they did little to change it.

They may not have been the perpetrators of the bad behavior but they did have some involvement with how the company was being run and thus you can argue how complicit they were. (complicit here is a "term of art" for people can disagree with how complicit they were. It is very debatable is my point, people will havevery different opinions on the matter.)

[Anonymouswizard]

There's solid science to say that productivity falls off rapidly after about 40 hours each week. While there are exceptional people who don't have to push themselves to go harder and longer, they are very much in the minority and it is both unfair to hold other workers to that standard and unsound to build a labor policy around such people. There are good reasons the 8-hour day and the 5-day week were first a common labor demand and then the standard. For a while. Givebacks have mostly abolished them in practice.

FWIW, the overtime is because until my hours are finalised I'm only officially supposed to work a half week, but both sides want this to be a full time position. The person assigning shifts (who also happens to be my immediate boss) is essentially jumping the gun a tad because they need full time staff. i'm working an average of about 37 hours a week with overtime.


Your boss in particular is doing a standard maneuver, looking to take an inch (the short shift between two long ones) now and a mile (no days off no matter how long the shifts get) later, and it sounds like she's playing on your pride to get you to go along. "Actually asking" doesn't make it better, and it's a sad commentary on where we are that it can seem like it does.

Actually that bit's never explicitly come up, although I've told my boss where the line is. Essentially I was asked if I was willing to work two long shifts in a row, with a rest day afterwards, and I agreed that it's okay. In fact I think I'm the only one down as requiring a day off if I work 20 hours in two days, although it's standard practice.

Honestly I suspect that at some point I'll be given a horrible week or two, although as it's the care industry there's no intention (at least at the moment) to run people dry. This essentially came up in the 'are there any days you don't want shifts on' discussion, because that week I happened to have drawn long shifts on consecutive days. I have already drawn a line in that I'm not working 12 hour shifts (because I know that I have practically no concentration after the tenth hour, and yes they do occasionally come up), which so far has been respected.

Let me put it this way, I worded it poorly. I'm glad I was asked because ten hour shifts two days in a row is common here, I was more commenting on the fact that checking I'm okay with it is polite. I knew going into the job that such shift patterns were expected, although it's very rare that you'll get more than two days in a row (the only time I've seen it happen is where one staff member was off for a week and a half, so a couple of people essentially had to work an extra couple of days).


Also, what do you mean by the bold? Do you stop getting overtime once the company decides your final schedule, no matter how many hours you end up being scheduled for, or end up working?

Essentially until my, whatever the term is for the initial 12-week period is, is up I'm technically on a part time contract (but work overtime enough to bring it to roughly full time and get paid for the overtime). When I get changed to whatever my final hours are I can still be assigned overtime (we essentially run with the bare minimum number of people, so if somebody wants a day off somebody else is probably working overtime that week), but the standard practice has been to assign shifts to get to the closest number of hours possible.

Overtime yes, can include going over a 40 hour work week. It's the price you pay when there's over a hundred residents who have to be fed. But it's essentially policy that if it's going to be more than a couple of weeks a person will be hired via an agency to fill the void.

Sure, I could have a much better deal. I honestly originally applied for this job because I need something while I search for engineering jobs (and I've not hidden the fact that I'm doing that), and while I'll be happy continuing indefinitely if nothing better comes along, I do have my limits and will be willing to quit if the hours get to something I'm not comfortable with (such as your nonstop shifts example) and company procedures don't solve it. Yeah, I know it's easy to say that and relatively easy into being manipulated into not following through with it, at this point I'd rather not argue and just say that in practice overtime is used to patch not having enough contingency, except in cases like mine where it's used to buff my hours up to the point the kitchen is running properly.

Honestly, considering the last job I had couldn't be asked to find me one shift a week I'd rather be mildly overworked than significantly underworked. I can't be asked to argue this right now, but let's just say I've essentially agreed to what everybody else in the place has agreed to with regards to how hours work, and while it's not the greatest there are safeguards to prevent abuse (ones that could in theory be circumvented, but the entire reason I was hired in the first place was because of those safeguards). Agree to disagree on this specific situation, at least for now?

Gah, this is a rambling mess that probably digs me into a hole bigger than I started with. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't work in the place with the best regulations for staff, and even I'm better off than people with CA.

Well, to summarise, TLDR; I know I'm not in the best of positions right now with regard to hours and could in theory end up working a 60 hour work week or more, but at the moment I'm happy with it, and have been informed of what to do if I'm unhappy with something (in the case of shifts becoming abusive inform people outside the specific facility) and am happy to hand in my notice if I feel it can't be solved.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Never liked the guy, too arrogant and pretentious, good riddance.

[DaOldeWolf]

I hadnt seen a video of his in a while but I was quite surprised to find out about all of the mishandling.Still, I believe worst part of it all isnt the document showing everything they did but how they handled the whole thing. Their two responses are absolutely disgusting. I cant believe how petty and childish Channel Awesome´s responses were. I am surprised it took them so long for their bad PR to show.

[Kitten Champion]

Here is the link to the video.

[I am going to talk about non CA stuff but instead Lindsay Ellis stuff and Lindsay Ellis used to work for CA as the Nostalgia Chick]

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Warners (Part 3/2)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7t_g5QObs


Wow.

She has a Dark Universe shirt. I'm jelly.

[Dragonus45]

The cover-ups of repeated sexual harassment claims by multiple creators against multiple different creators and that whole disgusting revelation about JewWario though...that I can't forgive.

The revelation that he supposedly "groomed" a consenting adult? Or at least has been accused of such as is currently to busy being dead to defend himself. Yea that is just awful.


Justin was grooming female fans for sex at cons.

The management knew and took no action.

It stayed sub rosa then he killed himself so it was quietly forgotten until the general dissatisfaction with the site boiled over.

Yep, he totally groomed that adult 18 year old. Very awful of him. Shame about him being to dead to ever defend himself against all this. Unless we get any real evidence here can we not slander the dead.

[DaOldeWolf]

Yep, he totally groomed that adult 18 year old. Very awful of him. Shame about him being to dead to ever defend himself against all this. Unless we get any real evidence here can we not slander the dead.

Channel Awesome made that possible. When they were trying to refute the accusations from the compilation, they showed evidence that pointed towards JewWario being behind some of the sexual harrassment. (due to info from the date and the letter J being visible in the evidence they gave).

[Dragonus45]

Channel Awesome made that possible. When they were trying to refute the accusations from the compilation, they showed evidence that pointed towards JewWario being behind some of the sexual harrassment. (due to info from the date and the letter J being visible in the evidence they gave).

Unless they want to come out with more details of what they know that second one is insubstantial wind. Literally all we know is that someone accused him of sexual assault and CA decided to fire him over it but admit nothing since there was no desire from the alleged victim to file a report on the matter. We don't know what, if any, investigating they did before firing him or what evidence they did or don't have. Literally %90 of the document that started all this complaints that CA were incompetent at basic aspects of production and marketing early and had no idea how to handle business. But this one time we start treating them like geniuses who could do no wrong?

[Lemmy]

I'm not sure what to make of all this mess... Some of it are unsubstantiated accusations. However, many of them are very similar to other accusations that happened in the past and involved (and fit the profile) the same people, so I'd dare say they hold at least a good amount of truth in them. Some of the accusations are pretty dumb, though... The fuss about the so-called "rape joke" is stupid. Linday agreed and even helped script that scene. And it isn't even a rape joke! Metal-kara is assimilating her and the joke is that Filmbrain mistakenly thinks they are having sex.

That said, the accounts of sexual harassment, specially from Michaud (or however the hell his name is spelled) seem very accurate. And do fit the type of personality he seems to have. It's no surprise that he is one of the most hated guys in CA. The mismanagement is probably just incompetence. The Walker brothers deluded themselves into thinking they are amazing producers, but they've failed time and time again to create anything above NC's quick gag humor (Demo Reel was garbage! And their attempts at a game show was mind-blowingly awful! How they managed to spend 80k on that is either criminal or of such incompetence that it should be told in history books!).

In any case... I stopped following CA years ago, so this mess doesn't change anything for me.

[LaZodiac]

The revelation that he supposedly "groomed" a consenting adult? Or at least has been accused of such as is currently to busy being dead to defend himself. Yea that is just awful.

Yep, he totally groomed that adult 18 year old. Very awful of him. Shame about him being to dead to ever defend himself against all this. Unless we get any real evidence here can we not slander the dead.

So what happened here is that an anonymous person revealed this to Obscuras Lupa while she was creating the document, and it was added in because people where in the know verified it. Among other things, like the big R that happens with these sorts of people.

Channel AWesome, in retalation, posted chat logs showing that the time frame was wrong (in truth they were chat logs of a different event) and they blurred out the names...except they did enough of a bad job at blurring out the names that people could clearly see it said Justin, aka Jewwario. The time this took place was around the time he "left" CA, and they say in the posted chats that CA posted themselves they're gonna fire him, but let him leave of his own accord publically.

After people did the snopping needed to realize it was Justin, all the people who were in the know (the very few who knew the truth, and those who learned it while compiling the document) came out. I believe (though this part may be inaccurate on my part) that even his wife has confirmed that the stories about Justin Carmickle raping and grooming people are in fact true.

I'm sorry but your hero killed himself because he was fired for being a rapist.

[DaOldeWolf]

Unless they want to come out with more details of what they know that second one is insubstantial wind. Literally all we know is that someone accused him of sexual assault and CA decided to fire him over it but admit nothing since there was no desire from the alleged victim to file a report on the matter. We don't know what, if any, investigating they did before firing him or what evidence they did or don't have. Literally %90 of the document that started all this complaints that CA were incompetent at basic aspects of production and marketing early and had no idea how to handle business. But this one time we start treating them like geniuses who could do no wrong?

I think that it is really deplorable how they tried to "hide" the identity of alleged person. They gave enough information to let everyone know who was the person accused from sexual assault. No one would be capable of knowing the truth if CA hadnt let that out in a misguided attempt to defend themselves. I am not saying JewWario commited the crime or not but that they basically showed who were the accusations against. I can believe they are incompetent enough, they would let info out that they shouldnt have.

This is one of the reasons I think I hate them more for their answers than for the list.

[Dragonus45]

So what happened here is that an anonymous person revealed this to Obscuras Lupa while she was creating the document, and it was added in because people where in the know verified it. Among other things, like the big R that happens with these sorts of people.
The account in the doc was about an adult. A legal adult who directly states they consented. Kinda crappy of him to cheat on his wife but that doesn’t make him a rapist.


Channel AWesome, in retalation, posted chat logs showing that the time frame was wrong (in truth they were chat logs of a different event) and they blurred out the names...except they did enough of a bad job at blurring out the names that people could clearly see it said Justin, aka Jewwario. The time this took place was around the time he "left" CA, and they say in the posted chats that CA posted themselves they're gonna fire him, but let him leave of his own accord publically.

I find it funny how smoothly people switch from, “Channel Awesome have no idea how to do anything and are bad” to “Channel Awesome are crack investigators who assuredly only had pure reasons for this firing and had no alternative motives like preventing even a potential scandal.”


After people did the snopping needed to realize it was Justin, all the people who were in the know (the very few who knew the truth, and those who learned it while compiling the document) came out. I believe (though this part may be inaccurate on my part) that even his wife has confirmed that the stories about Justin Carmickle raping and grooming people are in fact true.

His wife has made zero public comments that I can find. And Holly Brown is hardly the most reliable source about how true or untrue this totally unproven anonymous with zero presented evidence made against a dead man is and she is the one who “verified” the totally anonymous reddit poster who claimed to be the alleged victim.



I'm sorry but your hero killed himself because he was fired for being a rapist.

Im sorry you feel the need to confuse facts and allegations when talking about one of my heros.

[Cikomyr]

Justin was grooming female fans for sex at cons.

The management knew and took no action.

It stayed sub rosa then he killed himself so it was quietly forgotten until the general dissatisfaction with the site boiled over.

What does it mean, "grooming [...] for sex"?

I know what grooming is, its just.. i mean, its not like it has rape-y undertones. It sounds like he was dressing them or doing their hair. But its obviously because i have no idea what the idiom means

[DaOldeWolf]

What does it mean, "grooming [...] for sex"?

I know what grooming is, its just.. i mean, its not like it has rape-y undertones. It sounds like he was dressing them or doing their hair. But its obviously because i have no idea what the idiom means

I am not an englsih native speaker and I might be wrong on the definition but from what I understand, grooming in this case is trying to manipulate someone with gifts or favors to gain something from that person usually sexual.

[Cizak]

The revelation that he supposedly "groomed" a consenting adult? Or at least has been accused of such as is currently to busy being dead to defend himself. Yea that is just awful.

The revelation that he, from a position of power, coerced at least one woman to do things willingly and forcefully assaulted at least one while she was unconcious. (https://www.reddit.com/r/ChannelAwesome/comments/8bqrhw/whats_all_this_about_jewwario_now/dx961hc/?context=2)


Yep, he totally groomed that adult 18 year old. Very awful of him. Shame about him being to dead to ever defend himself against all this. Unless we get any real evidence here can we not slander the dead.

It's always so convenient when they're dead, no? It's one of the best get out of jail free cards ever. A dead monster is still a monster. The ones alive and in need of support are his victims.


The fuss about the so-called "rape joke" is stupid. Linday agreed and even helped script that scene. And it isn't even a rape joke! Metal-kara is assimilating her and the joke is that Filmbrain mistakenly thinks they are having sex.

So it's a joke about a forceful act of dominance between a man and a woman that's so similar to rape that it gets mistaken for it... but it isn't a rape joke. Got it.

Anyway, yes, Lindsay was able to re-work that scene to make it better. It doesn't change the fact that she had to "fix" it in the first place, nor that CA is singling her (notice that pronoun) out when Linkara too was against it. (https://twitter.com/Linkara19/status/984291032115437568)

[Ramza00]

Wow.

She has a Dark Universe shirt. I'm jelly.

Be jelly but ...I can't think of the right Tolkein quote ... so I will instead use the ROTK song...

And all will turn /
To silver glass /
A light on the water /
Grey ships pass /
Into the West



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Da9M3jaVQAAPBmZ.jpg

I am going to cherish it always but that's becoming a problem because it's cheap crap and is already starting to show wear between washes.
https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/986091952197140481

[Lemmy]

So it's a joke about a forceful act of dominance between a man and a woman that's so similar to rape that it gets mistaken for it... but it isn't a rape joke. Got it.

Anyway, yes, Lindsay was able to re-work that scene to make it better. It doesn't change the fact that she had to "fix" it in the first place, nor that CA is singling her (notice that pronoun) out when Linkara too was against it. (https://twitter.com/Linkara19/status/984291032115437568)It gets mistaken for sex, not rape. And if if it were a rape joke... So what? At worst it's an unfunny joke or in bad taste. There are plenty of jokes about acts just as harmful and evil. But making a bad joke, even one about a sensitive issue, shouldn't be anywhere near the same ballpark as actual sexual harassment, which CA has been accused of covering up multiple times now, sometimes with very strong evidence... Like that creepy chat log of Michaud.

I'm not defending CA. Even if it turns out that only 10% of the claims against them are true, they still have a lot of serious **** to answer for, but "made a rape joke" is not among them... Although how they allegedly treated Lindsay after it probably is.

[Man on Fire]

The revelation that he supposedly "groomed" a consenting adult? Or at least has been accused of such as is currently to busy being dead to defend himself. Yea that is just awful.



Yep, he totally groomed that adult 18 year old. Very awful of him. Shame about him being to dead to ever defend himself against all this. Unless we get any real evidence here can we not slander the dead.

Does that matter how old the victim was? It they didn't gave him their premission it's still a sexual harasssment.

[2D8HP]

A for profit enterprise lacks decency (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NarratingTheObvious)?


I'm shocked — shocked! — to find that is the case (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlatantLies)!



Implying there's something special about this melange of blatant exploitation and toxic, manipulative, and heavy-handed labor discipline? There isn't. It's what anyone who can get away with it eventually sinks to, and with the collapse of the strike rate as well as other indicators of labor militancy over the last decades, has gotten and will get more common and more brazen. It was normal and is being normalized.

That's about the size of it.



Here is the link to the video.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7t_g5QObs


Thank you for that.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Count me in with zimmerwald and 2d8hp.

[Dragonus45]

Does that matter how old the victim was? It they didn't gave him their premission it's still a sexual harasssment.

If you are going to attempt to rescind consent after the fact by claiming you were groomed as if you were a child who was unable to consent then age is literally the most important factor.

[Cikomyr]

Was it with a minor?

Was it consensual?

Did he had authority over her?

I mean.. lies and manipulation are creepy, but they arent illegal behavior.

[GloatingSwine]

Was it with a minor?

Was it consensual?

Did he had authority over her?

I mean.. lies and manipulation are creepy, but they arent illegal behavior.

This is, in fact, no defence of his character.

Justin Carmichael was in indefensible **** of a human being. (NB: Obtaining sexual consent by deception may, in fact, lead to criminal prosecution. As it did for Justin Rowe who used Grindr to deliberately infect men with HIV)

[Cikomyr]

This is, in fact, no defence of his character.

Justin Carmichael was in indefensible **** of a human being. (NB: Obtaining sexual consent by deception may, in fact, lead to criminal prosecution. As it did for Justin Rowe who used Grindr to deliberately infect men with HIV)

Really? I call bullcrap. When you say "someone went to jail because he lied in order to infect people with HIV", i am not going to assume the reason he went to jail is because he lied.

Daryll Rowe went to jail because he was convited of commiting bodily harm on other people - or the intent to do so.

Lying isnt illegal, unless you use it as a mean to defraud someone or its to legal authorities.

[GloatingSwine]

Really? I call bullcrap. When you say "someone went to jail because he lied in order to infect people with HIV", i am not going to assume the reason he went to jail is because he lied.

Daryll Rowe went to jail because he was convited of commiting bodily harm on other people - or the intent to do so.

Lying isnt illegal, unless you use it as a mean to defraud someone or its to legal authorities.

Again, this is no defence of a person who uses deceit to obtain sex.

That person is scum and should be called out as such as often and publically as possible.

[The Troubadour]

*sigh* Can we have at least one thread about this whole cluster**** that doesn't have people defending sexual coercion from a person in a position of power by saying "it's not rape"?


Lying isnt illegal, unless you use it as a mean to defraud someone or its to legal authorities.

If lying about something prevents people from giving fully informed consent, that's either rape by deception or rape by fraud, depending on the jurisdiction.

[dps]

The revelation that he, from a position of power, coerced at least one woman to do things willingly and forcefully assaulted at least one while she was unconcious. (https://www.reddit.com/r/ChannelAwesome/comments/8bqrhw/whats_all_this_about_jewwario_now/dx961hc/?context=2)



The woman whose story is in the link you provided isn't the same one as the "grooming" story is about. Assuming that the woman in the link is telling the truth (which I am in no position to judge one way or the other), then yes, the guy was a rapist. But that doesn't mean that "grooming" someone else for sex necessarily involved an assault or anything else illegal. If the person who was "groomed" was an adult capable of giving consent and in fact did give consent, then the only issue with it is the cheating on his wife (which I find pretty vile--I wouldn't cheat on my wife, and think guys who do give all husbands a bad name), which isn't anything anyone in the modern world considers criminal (even though it's technically still illegal in many jurisdictions).

[Zevox]

At the moment it's not entirely clear. Apparently Doug Walker had changed his personal Facebook page to indicate that he had "worked" at Channel Awesome instead of currently being a producer. There was a new Nostalgia Critic video posted subsequent to this, but that doesn't really prove anything one way or another as they reportedly maintained a buffer of 2-3 videos.
One possibility that comes to mind to explain both is that Doug didn't leave, but the decision has been made that the channel/website will shortly cease to exist, and Doug just jumped the gun on updating his Facebook page. After all, at this point there's not really a purpose to Channel Awesome being a thing, with almost everyone having left - and if there's even an iota of truth to how they thought about the other producers, in their minds it's just Doug and Brad left, since Larry wasn't one of their bigger names. And they're sure not going to attract new people after this.

Anyway... yeah, what a mess. I kind of stopped watching most of Channel Awesome's stuff years ago (about the time Nostalgia Critic started doing reviews of currently-in-theaters movies with mock-up scenes portrayed by Doug, Tamara, and Malcom, which I just didn't like watching as much, and even before then the amount I watched had been in decline for a while) so this doesn't affect me much now, but it's really sad to see something I used to love turn out like this. Hope everything works out for all the former producers there - and doesn't for Mike Michaud, if even a decent fraction of what's been claimed about him is true.

[Anonymouswizard]

Was it with a minor?

Was it consensual?

Did he had authority over her?

I mean.. lies and manipulation are creepy, but they arent illegal behavior.

Leaving aside the question of legality, somebody can still be a horrible/bad person. I don't think most people are saying it's definitely illegal, I think they're saying 'it's creepy and doing such things systematically is not cool bro'. The document of grievances even mentions that what he did in this situation wasn't so much illegal as scummy.

As somebody who has had problems with greyness and consent (slightly fuller details in the Relationship Woes and Advice thread), you can be complete scum without intending anything bad. Now unfortunately not only is mind reading technology a thing of the future (so you'll have to trust me to say that what I did was based on poor reading of signals) so is resurrection (so we need to use two of our genie wishes to read JW's mind and see if it was intentional or not).

The entire point is that it was creepy, almost certainly overstepped professional boundaries, and went unpunished for a long time. As well as the other things that might have happened that would be illegal.

I'm honestly rather upset that this came out after his death, because it a) stops him from giving any form of explanation (while I suspect he can't give a legitimate one I might be wrong) and b) means that everything else about him is going to be overshadowed, certainly for the immediate future. Not that I think it should have remained hidden, scumminess whether legal or not shouldn't be kept out of sight when known and it's better that this has come out now than it never coming out, but because it leave us in this situation where this is all that'll be talked about with regards to him for the next however long it is.

[Cikomyr]

*sigh* Can we have at least one thread about this whole cluster**** that doesn't have people defending sexual coercion from a person in a position of power by saying "it's not rape"?

Re-bullcrap. I expressedly point out in the post you quoted "is the person being in a position of authority?" as a standard for legally unacceptable behavior, alongside consent and underage.




If lying about something prevents people from giving fully informed consent, that's either rape by deception or rape by fraud, depending on the jurisdiction.

You should do more research before mentioning these examples, because a summary research points to Rape by Deception being applicable for very specific circumstances, which has to do with someone's disclosure of their identity to allow enlightened conseny. Ex: it is a crime to slip in a woman's bed to make "consensual" love to her because she aesumed you were her boyfriend.

Lying that you are a millionaire and getting a woman to sleep with you is creepy, but it is not illegal.

So, were any of Justin's actions illegal? Because i dont see why his employer should be held accountable for his employees' not-illegal actions just because they are morally objectionable.

[Vinyadan]

Now unfortunately not only is mind reading technology a thing of the future (so you'll have to trust me to say that what I did was based on poor reading of signals) so is resurrection (so we need to use two of our genie wishes to read JW's mind and see if it was intentional or not).



That's not going to work...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb0PuaikL4w

I'd never expected this video to actually be topical in more than one way.

[dps]

So, were any of Justin's actions illegal? Because i dont see why his employer should be held accountable for his employees' not-illegal actions just because they are morally objectionable.

Well, generally speaking, we don't hold employers liable because one of their employees turned out to be a rapist, anyway. And they apparently did fire Jewario because of the allegations, even though they allowed him to save face by officially quitting rather than being fired, so I guess even they weren't OK with him raping someone.

[The Troubadour]

Lying that you are a millionaire and getting a woman to sleep with you is creepy, but it is not illegal.

Look up Sabbar Kashur, Eran Ben Avraham and Mario Ambrose Antoine, and next time take your own "advice" to do better research.


Well, generally speaking, we don't hold employers liable because one of their employees turned out to be a rapist, anyway. And they apparently did fire Jewario because of the allegations, even though they allowed him to save face by officially quitting rather than being fired, [...]

(Emphasis mine.)
Most of the criticism to CA's handling of the case seems to center around that, actually, that they left him in a position in which he could sexually assault someone else again, instead of releasing some kind of statement which still protected the victims' identities.

[zimmerwald1915]

Well, generally speaking, we don't hold employers liable because one of their employees turned out to be a rapist, anyway. And they apparently did fire Jewario because of the allegations, even though they allowed him to save face by officially quitting rather than being fired, so I guess even they weren't OK with him raping someone.
Not in the criminal law. But we do make civil penalties available to victims of workplace sexual harassment or assault. In the US, under Title VII, the employer is the only liable party; it has no individual liability.

So as far as that goes, you've got it exactly backwards.

[Vinyadan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XvMsQcz0o4

[Anonymouswizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XvMsQcz0o4

On a tangent, I love how disappointed Genie sounds when he says 'like a prince'. It feels like he knows exactly how this is going to go, and desperately wants Aladdin to understand.


With regards to Guru Larry, it would be hilarious if he ends up as the literal last content creator on Channel Awesome. It's the one case where I have no problem with him staying, because I understand he very much has a point to make and an axe to grind.

[Man on Fire]

To be fair, there isn't anything Doug or Rob could really do. A huge part of the problem was that, for reasons I cannot possibly fathom, Doug signed over the rights to the Nostalgia Critic character when Michaud was made CEO of Channel Awesome. Meaning that Michaud had all the power in that relationship unless Doug was willing to walk away from what he had been doing for years.

I suspect Michaud gave Doug and Rob money to launch the site early on, but rights to Nostalgia Critic IP were the price.


Unless they want to come out with more details of what they know that second one is insubstantial wind. Literally all we know is that someone accused him of sexual assault and CA decided to fire him over it but admit nothing since there was no desire from the alleged victim to file a report on the matter. We don't know what, if any, investigating they did before firing him or what evidence they did or don't have. Literally %90 of the document that started all this complaints that CA were incompetent at basic aspects of production and marketing early and had no idea how to handle business. But this one time we start treating them like geniuses who could do no wrong?

Nice starwman you have here.

Except that it is their very incompetence that made it known it was Justin whom Jane Doe was talking about. If they didn't do such a bad job trying to prove they're clean they gave away his identity, we wouldn't know. So nobody is claiming CA are infaultible, but that they proved Justin is guilty was not the point anyone was making. The point was that they knew of a person acussing Justin of sexual assult for over a year and did nothing, no investigation, just ignored it, meaning if he was guilty, they enabled him to assault more victims. Their response as well was only that they fired him a week after learning of the allegations, but they confused two anonymous people making separate allegations.


I'm not sure what to make of all this mess... Some of it are unsubstantiated accusations. However, many of them are very similar to other accusations that happened in the past and involved (and fit the profile) the same people, so I'd dare say they hold at least a good amount of truth in them. Some of the accusations are pretty dumb, though... The fuss about the so-called "rape joke" is stupid. Linday agreed and even helped script that scene. And it isn't even a rape joke! Metal-kara is assimilating her and the joke is that Filmbrain mistakenly thinks they are having sex.

Linkara. Linkara was the one, who was uncomfortable with the rape scene, brought it to Linsday and then them both talked about with Doug, who toned it down. And in the original script it was far worse and the reason Linsday bings it up is ceause the original scene was there in the first place.


And Holly Brown is hardly the most reliable source

Hii, Michaud.


Im sorry you feel the need to confuse facts and allegations when talking about one of my heros.

I am sorry you felt that way ;)


If you are going to attempt to rescind consent after the fact by claiming you were groomed as if you were a child who was unable to consent then age is literally the most important factor.


I'm pretty sure that Justin who was what, 40 or something, having sex with an 18 years old is still creepy and in come states could fan under deffintiion of sexual assault.

[dps]

Not in the criminal law. But we do make civil penalties available to victims of workplace sexual harassment or assault. In the US, under Title VII, the employer is the only liable party; it has no individual liability.

So as far as that goes, you've got it exactly backwards.

The women who were "groomed" for sex by Jewario at conventions were Channel Awesome employees?

[zimmerwald1915]

The women who were "groomed" for sex by Jewario at conventions were Channel Awesome employees?
I don't know. Nor do I care very much. My only point is, employer liability is very much a thing in the anti-discrimination context.

[Cizak]

The woman whose story is in the link you provided isn't the same one as the "grooming" story is about.

Yes, I'm aware. I was trying to say that he
1) Coerced at least one woman into willingly engaging in sexual acts (the "grooming" story)
as well as
2) Forced himself on at least one unconscious woman
for a total of at least two women.

Sorry if that was unclear.

And suffice to say, in the first case I disagree that the "only" issue is him cheating on his wife.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm pretty sure that Justin who was what, 40 or something, having sex with an 18 year old is still creepy and in some states could fall under definition of sexual assault.

It's not enforced much any more (except when convenient), but most states have laws restricting how far apart you can be in age before consent cannot be given. He's more than 20 years older, so statutory rape charges apply. Or would if he wasn't dead.

[Cikomyr]

Look up Sabbar Kashur, Eran Ben Avraham and Mario Ambrose Antoine, and next time take your own "advice" to do better research.


First two are potential cases of Israelian institutional racism against Arab men. Because thats a lot of what I see when i google their names.

The third case is an outright case of fraud. Promising future monetary or work compensation.

[Cikomyr]

Yes, I'm aware. I was trying to say that he
1) Coerced at least one woman into willingly engaging in sexual acts (the "grooming" story)
as well as
2) Forced himself on at least one unconscious woman
for a total of at least two women.

Wait, is "grooming" means coercing? Or just.. ya know, manipulating?

Second is a straight case of rape

[Lemmy]

Wait, is "grooming" means coercing? Or just.. ya know, manipulating?

Second is a straight case of rape
My understanding is that "grooming" in this context means something like "raising/educating someone to see some sort of unaccetable behavior as normal, from an age in which said someone is too young, naive or inexperienced to know better".

But I could be wrong...

[The Troubadour]

First two are potential cases of Israelian institutional racism against Arab men. Because thats a lot of what I see when i google their names.

The third case is an outright case of fraud. Promising future monetary or work compensation.

None of which dispute the original point, that lying can, in fact, be illegal?
(Not that that was what Carmical did.)

[dps]

I don't know. Nor do I care very much. My only point is, employer liability is very much a thing in the anti-discrimination context.

If the "grooming" woman and others like her weren't employees or applicants, there's no hostile work environment for the anti-discrimination laws to apply to.


Coerced at least one woman into willingly engaging in sexual acts

That's a contradiction in terms. If she was coerced, she wasn't willing. If she was coerced, it was straight-up rape.

[zimmerwald1915]

If the "grooming" woman and others like her weren't employees or applicants, there's no hostile work environment for the anti-discrimination laws to apply to.
No indeed. I brought up Title VII not to suggest that anyone was actually liable under it, but as an example to illustrate that we as a society recognize in principle that employers are responsible for allowing their employees free rein to harass and assault.

Also, Title VII is more comprehensive than hostile work environment. The latter is a fairly recent innovation.

[Kish]

Wait, is "grooming" means coercing? Or just.. ya know, manipulating?
"Grooming" means setting up the situation for later coercion or rape.

[Ramza00]

So this is where I am coming from viewing the Channel Awesome controversy and also my nostalgia involving Channel Awesome.

Instead of addressing the CA issue head on I think my feelings can be better expressed by telling a story, and I will use the story of cultural icons that most of us will be familiar with.



Let me tell you a story about 3 people. 2 Monsters and a Child. It is actually two stories simultaneously happen and then one drama that occurs when these stories collide head onto each other. Before I explain the stories let me introduce you the cast of characters of this conflict.


The 2 Monsters are these people

http://cdn1.clevver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/little-mermaid-ursula-king-triton-1.jpg

Why these 2 people are monsters I will get to soon, and how these two people are monsters are very different and the differences are important.

The 3rd person in this story is a child.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/arts/film_school/2015/03/how_the_disney_renaissance_marked_a_turning_point_ in_the_animated_movie/partofyourworld.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg

But it is very important to make the child an age of 16 aka the cusp point, the tipping point, the transition point from child to adult for the actual years of this transition from child to adult does not matter the point is that their is ambiguity for if their is ambiguity in the story.

-----



Ariel, the 16 year old child, this is a princess has normal dreams and desires. She wants things outside of her world but the things she wants are normal things.

She has everything her father ever wanted her to have, but the things her father wanted her to have are not the things she wanted to have. She derives no pleasure, no joy from the things that her father treasures, she only derives joy from being a part of a family and for wanting the things outside of her world from the world of man.

So she tries to be the good old girl and play the role of the doting daughter and live in the world of her father's imagination so she can play the role of the youngest daughter in her family. While at the same time having a secret life, a secret world, her own inner world where she loves the other things for her family disaproves.

But she is not perfect for humans are not perfect and she made a mistake and she missed a recital and her father finds out about her inner sanctum.

And he does this.

https://i2.wp.com/25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm3ebl1ILe1qkc2v6o1_500.gif

and this

https://cf.girlsaskguys.com/q2656052/d8446100-f918-4bce-8238-b439cb139725.gif


You see it was not just about a boy, it was about a world of wonder and Triton decides to use violence to control his daughter and thus he forces her into an impossible situation. Be inauthentic to yourself or only have a dialgoue with a person who is using violence and manipulation to enforce order. When in such a situation it is very hard to feel family bonds to feel kinship when the kin is using violence and manipulation to enforce his will instead of a common understanding this is his world not our world, not my world.


http://i0.wp.com/ytimg.googleusercontent.com/vi/Veb4ZS0BwZ8/mqdefault.jpg

So what does the Child (16 year old Ariel do), she goes to a person who she knows is a bad actor and can't be trusted, who she knows is a loan shark, but the loan shark is offering her a world where she feels a part in this world and while the terms are harsh and the child does not truely understand what the terms means.

But a child and an adult sees the truth, her father is no longer a person to be trusted due to his use of violence, manipulation, and coericon. Ariel also knows Ursula uses violence, manipulation, and coericon but at least Ursula is offering Ariel a world where Ariel feels she is wanted, feels she is safe, and feels she can be loved and have a family that she feels a part of. It is not about the boy at first, but it becomes about the boy because of the bad behavior of her father, and now the boy, the prince is the promise future in her dream world.

But Ursula is no different than this guy.

https://i.digiguide.tv/up/1108/1313006400-16872-TheSopran-13123640270.jpg

Effectively Ariel went away from "one mob boss" family to another "mob boss family" and made a deal with a loanshark from that family in the hopes to escape "mob life" and to enter a world without it.

That is the conflict, the two different stories that come colliding together.

https://t00.deviantart.net/yf6gXVrikL4HYFiKHLJVmv2NUDA=/300x200/filters:fixed_height(100,100):origin()/pre00/738b/th/pre/f/2016/236/0/d/ursula_holds_the_deal_over_triton_by_arielfan90-daf54jd.png

Adults can completely forsee this was going to happen. That a world of coerieson and violence also leads to a world where there are other fish, other people who will take advantage of this coericon and violence and offer usury terms.

Usury just like the name Ursula.

Ursula is a female name that means to bear and comes from Latin Ursa which is the Latin name to bear.

Usury is an english word which "means to charge interest", and specifically when the interest is way too extreme. Ursury also comes from latin and the word ūsūra (“lending at interest, usury”) which in turn comes from latin's from ūsus (“use”), which is a noun form of the verb / stem of ūtī (“to use”). We also think uti origins is an older word that means to carry, to fetch but we are not really sure of this from a linguistic standpoint with dictionaries and only know the to carry and to fetch origin / meaning of uti via comparitive language techniques that compares latin from older languages from the same time period.

Aka Usury and Ursula is a purposeful pun where if you spoke Latin you would know these words that to bear something also means to carry it, and we will make outrageous promises / loans for some future in where we would not have to carry it. We do so for to carry this pain in the present is so unbearable.

-----

So let me summarize and bring this back to Channel Awesome stuff.

The drama of all this is that Ariel is a child. If she was an adult if she was 26 it would have far less drama but the fact that Ariel is 16 and she is on the nexus, the doorway between two states of being a child and an adult that makes it full of drama.

And perhaps Ariel should have not been emotional and searched out her options before going straight to a "sea witch", and perhaps she could have listen to the sea witch and decide to come back another day. Afterall, why is it so time sensitive that the Sea Witch and her make this deal right now? It is time-sensitive for Ariel considers staying with her father and this abusive type of world / place is now unbearable and she has no place else to go and thus she is willing to make a stupid decision with a loanshark, for the loanshark has magic and the magic is to give her what she wants and she will part with her family and her voice (literally her agency) in order to live in the world where she does not have to deal with the drama of her father anymore.

-----

Now there are always Ursula's in the world. The world is full of monsters. And they may not be all knowing with a plan to gain the most powerful artifact the literal trident of Poseidon / Neptune (Triton is the sun of Poseidon / Neptune.)

But the world is full of monsters who will take advantage of you in order to financially gain, they are not in it due to other reasons such as "family" and they do not have your best interests at heart.

Channel Awesome seems like this kind of place from the dozens of people who used to work there and no longer do. Oh how bad was it? Was it rape or just sexual manipulation? Was it a company who paid you on a contract basis and forced you to do these crossover videos but has so little forethought such as we need food and water? (Aka one of the many things you usually see in "union work environments involving acting, aka the bare necessities of survival are provided.)

Does it really matter? How bad Channel Awesome was / is?

After all the people who are debating this in this thread are not working at Channel Awesome, the important take a way * in my opinion * is lots of people who used to work there say this is not a good place and this place took advantage of us and you should be mindful of that and not frequent them as long as the current management is still in charge.

The former Channel Awesome people who wrote that 60 page document was telling other people that this is not a safe place to work and be mindful about that before you either work for them, for CA seems to have a very frequent habit of doing lots of sleezy things not just one time but multiple times in multiple modalities. Aka just like this.

https://thedinglehopper.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/poor-unfortunate-souls.jpg?w=400

Yes there will always be "worse fish" in the ocean, but one of the reasons why I think the little mermaid 1989 movie is a good movie to show children is be careful of who you trust and who you make contracts with for they will not have the best interest in your mind. Some people are just sleazy. And consider your other options for often there are other options.

Also The Little Mermaid is a wonderful teaching tool that when you are emotional you often do not see the other options and you feel "trapped" and when you feel "trapped" people are at their easiest / best at their ability to manipulate you.

Like Sebastian saysbefore the Dad Violence scene, during the Under the Sea scene...

https://animatedmeta.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/little-mermaid-the-human-world-is-a-mess.gif?w=300&h=182

During this wonderful scene but slightly later in the song Ariel gives Sebastian side eye for she "knows" that also "here" is a mess...and Sebastian and Triton just do not get that this world is also a mess for it is their world and only certain things are allowed in their world.

-----

How Bad CA is / was? Really does not matter does it? It seems like the management of CA is / was a bad place. Trying to assign a specific number of value like is this the technical definition of rape, sexual assault, or very sleazy sexual manipulation misses the point!

[Rogar Demonblud]

Sigh. For starters, the crime is called USURY, not URSURY.

[Ramza00]

Sigh. For starters, the crime is called USURY, not URSURY.

Corrected the spelling error, but the Disney movie did use puns.

For example choosing the name Ariel for The Little Mermaid, a water spirit.

Ariel is not the name of the Little Mermaid in Hans Christian tale (lots of things were changed in the Disney version compared to Hans Christian version.)

Ariel is the name of an air spirit in Shakespeare's The Tempest. Now Shakespeare could have picked the name due to its hebrew connection (The Lion of God) for his air spirit, but an alternate origin is the pun of Ariel and Aerial (English word descended from a Greek word meaning of the Air). It is well known that Shakespeare loved his puns and double entendres and other forms of double meaning.

And if you are familiar with the Hans Christian tale in the end The Little Mermaid becomes an Air Spirit coalesced air but with a "personified essence" unlike the normal fates of Mermaids which is to become foam (air trapped in water) without a personified essence.

Whatever, but thanks for correcting the spell mistake.

[Psyren]

I'm pretty sure Nostalgia Critic is the only person on CA who gets most of his hits through that website. Everyone else is watched either through their own website, or directly from youtube. So don't worry, none of them are going to disappear. If anything, I noticed a trend of creators improving once they're no longer associated with the site - look how much better Lindsay's stuff became once she was allowed to spread her wings and didn't have to be Nostalgia Chick anymore.

This is my take on it, and Lindsay was far and away my favorite contributor on that site, so I'm not particularly sad about its passing since she is still doing her thing.

[Kitten Champion]

I was surprised to see SF Debris join CA when he did. Given that other than a single brief voice cameo in a Linkara review he was entirely his own a operation, and had a pretty well-established website and following of his own to the point that it takes a long while for new request spots to open up.

My perception of CA - well prior to this - based on the input of several producers, was that it didn't provide much in the way of numbers outside of very few of them. Mostly because the audience was dominated by Doug Walker viewers which skew to a certain demographic and have particular tastes that overshadow things that move a hair outside that.

[gomipile]

It's not enforced much any more (except when convenient), but most states have laws restricting how far apart you can be in age before consent cannot be given. He's more than 20 years older, so statutory rape charges apply. Or would if he wasn't dead.

Are you misunderstanding Romeo & Juliet statues? Or do you honestly think that, say, a 45 year old woman would be guilty of statutory take in most states if she had sex with a 23-year-old? I can assure you that that is not the case.

There is nowhere in the United States where a mentally competent 18+ year old can be statutorily raped.

[LaZodiac]

I was surprised to see SF Debris join CA when he did. Given that other than a single brief voice cameo in a Linkara review he was entirely his own a operation, and had a pretty well-established website and following of his own to the point that it takes a long while for new request spots to open up.

My perception of CA - well prior to this - based on the input of several producers, was that it didn't provide much in the way of numbers outside of very few of them. Mostly because the audience was dominated by Doug Walker viewers which skew to a certain demographic and have particular tastes that overshadow things that move a hair outside that.

Linkara is almost solely responsible for him getting on, and it actually saved him entirely more than a few times, by his own admission. It's part of why he left when he did. Linkara left, and quote "Linkara has never done wrong by me". It's actually really refreshing to see.

Linkara is the guy who stays on the sinking ship helping people off it until the very last moment, basically. But he's also the guy who saw it was heading for the iceberg and set up a boat for him in advance. Actually pretty smart at this, but kind enough to help out the people who need it.

[factotum]

I think the real problem I have with this is not the Walkers or even Michaud. It's that a bunch of other people who are (as far as we know) entirely innocent of any wrong-doing are effectively going to lose their jobs if Channel Awesome goes away--people like Malcolm Ray and Tamara Chambers, who really like working there and have never had a problem with the company, are just getting caught in the crossfire.

[Kitten Champion]

Linkara is almost solely responsible for him getting on, and it actually saved him entirely more than a few times, by his own admission. It's part of why he left when he did. Linkara left, and quote "Linkara has never done wrong by me". It's actually really refreshing to see.

Linkara is the guy who stays on the sinking ship helping people off it until the very last moment, basically. But he's also the guy who saw it was heading for the iceberg and set up a boat for him in advance. Actually pretty smart at this, but kind enough to help out the people who need it.

Oh, it's there on the SF Debris forums.

I dropped off them when they went down a while ago. Honestly I didn't do much with them, they were kind of stuffed with wall-of-text political arguments as their general lifeblood at the time (which was around the last American Presidential election) and I didn't feel like going near it.

[hamishspence]

Let me tell you a story about 3 people. 2 Monsters and a Child.



You see it was not just about a boy, it was about a world of wonder and Triton decides to use violence to control his daughter and thus he forces her into an impossible situation. Be inauthentic to yourself or only have a dialgoue with a person who is using violence and manipulation to enforce order.

Anger Born of Worry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AngerBornOfWorry) is a very common issue - and considering how dangerous humans are to fish, Triton distrusting them makes sense.

Add in that the prequel shows Triton's wife being killed by a human ship, and his overreacting makes a lot of sense, and doesn't make him a monster - only a Well Intentioned Extremist.

For another Disney character who Uses Violence Against Their Child's Property - there's Queen Elinor from Brave. And, just like Ariel, the child (Merida) "makes a deal with the supernatural" as a result - and the story ends with the two reconciling - like Ariel reconciles with Triton at the end.

[tensai_oni]

I don't care if it's illegal by US laws or not, because illegal and immoral are often two different things.

What Justin Carmical did was morally wrong. No, worse than that - it was completely despicable. I have lost any respect I had for him, and he used to be one of my favorite CA contributors.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Are you misunderstanding Romeo & Juliet statues? Or do you honestly think that, say, a 45 year old woman would be guilty of statutory take in most states if she had sex with a 23-year-old? I can assure you that that is not the case.

There is nowhere in the United States where a mentally competent 18+ year old can be statutorily raped.

Incorrect. Most states have fixed statutory competence to 21+, some go as high as 25. It has to do with contracts, but the knock on effects are there.

Then again, most states still have laws that you can't legally marry without your father's permission and can't marry a woman without also getting her father's permission (in addition to her needing the former), because legislatures are more willing to reform the laws regulating how many horses you have to hitch to a grain cart. Thankfully, common law has a thing called salutary neglect.

[gomipile]

Incorrect. Most states have fixed statutory competence to 21+, some go as high as 25. It has to do with contracts, but the knock on effects are there.

Then again, most states still have laws that you can't legally marry without your father's permission and can't marry a woman without also getting her father's permission (in addition to her needing the former), because legislatures are more willing to reform the laws regulating how many horses you have to hitch to a grain cart. Thankfully, common law has a thing called salutary neglect.

Since you seem to have the more extraordinary claim, I'd like to see a source for that. Several minutes of searching found me nothing that backs up this post of yours, and a few things that support my position.

[The Fury]

I don't care if it's illegal by US laws or not, because illegal and immoral are often two different things.

What Justin Carmical did was morally wrong. No, worse than that - it was completely despicable. I have lost any respect I had for him, and he used to be one of my favorite CA contributors.

I'll admit, I was pretty indifferent to him while he was alive. But when Doug Walker edited together this collection of clips from his videos, including this bit where Justin addresses the audience directly and tells them, "...if nobody else ever tells you this, I will tell you this; I care about you."

It's that moment that always stuck with me and made me think that he must have been a cool guy. It's also this moment that makes me feel betrayed and so thoroughly disappointed for thinking so after all this stuff about him came out. Maybe I just hate when I think the best of people and end up being proven wrong about them.

[Ramza00]

Anger Born of Worry (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AngerBornOfWorry) is a very common issue - and considering how dangerous humans are to fish, Triton distrusting them makes sense.

Add in that the prequel shows Triton's wife being killed by a human ship, and his overreacting makes a lot of sense, and doesn't make him a monster - only a Well Intentioned Extremist.

For another Disney character who Uses Violence Against Their Child's Property - there's Queen Elinor from Brave. And, just like Ariel, the child (Merida) "makes a deal with the supernatural" as a result - and the story ends with the two reconciling - like Ariel reconciles with Triton at the end.

Nods, and the reconciliation only happens when the person who used violence realizes they should not have done it and they will try to do better in the future.

Of course Triton has a point, wisdom often comes with age for age brings experience, and it is a very good point but when you cross the overton window (their may be a better word than overton window) the other person will stop having a dialogue with you and they will not see your point anymore even if your point is full of insight and wisdom.

A well intentioned extremist can cross the line and be a monster for a little while, but part of being human and mermaid is realizing that you can cross back that line and you can make a promise to try to be better in the future.

People make mistakes all the time, and it is up to the other people to decide whether they will trust the person again. Sometimes you can get that trust back, sometimes you can get the trust back and the trust can deepen, and sometimes you can't get the trust back for the relationship is forever changed.

That is the power of becoming, being, became, and so on with the other forms of be. they may all use the same root of be but you should recognize that things change and what you think is a forever thing is actually a thing that is dynamic and it can choose to remain, to stand, or it can choose to be something else.

That is why these types of myths often incorporate shapeshifting for shapeshifting is literally this happening in real life taking one thing the old thing, sacrificing it, and causing it to be reborn the exactly the same or reborn in a new form. Transmutation involves the manipulation of form, of being, and showing different permutations of what it can become.

A well intentioned parent who goes too far can become a more understanding but also more effective parent at communicating their wisdom. A naive child can become a wise person who is at the transition from child to adulthood (the realm of infinite possibilities), and will one day become an adult themselves (still full of possibilities but now with responsibilities). That is the power of myth and the power of stories it shows what is, what was, and what could be.

[Talakeal]

I'll admit, I was pretty indifferent to him while he was alive. But when Doug Walker edited together this collection of clips from his videos, including this bit where Justin addresses the audience directly and tells them, "...if nobody else ever tells you this, I will tell you this; I care about you."

It's that moment that always stuck with me and made me think that he must have been a cool guy. It's also this moment that makes me feel betrayed and so thoroughly disappointed for thinking so after all this stuff about him came out. Maybe I just hate when I think the best of people and end up being proven wrong about them.

I am much the same, I never paid much attention to him while he was alive but I thought the tribute video they did made him look like a very nice person.

I think most people are looking at him from an altogether too black and white perspective. Most people have both good and bad in them, and it is fully possible for the same person to do really good things and really evil things. I don't think the good things he said or did are negated by the bad, and vice versa. People are complex entities, simultaneously beautiful and flawed.


Since you seem to have the more extraordinary claim, I'd like to see a source for that. Several minutes of searching found me nothing that backs up this post of yours, and a few things that support my position.

I would also be very curious to see a source for this claim.

[Dorath]

I think the real problem I have with this is not the Walkers or even Michaud. It's that a bunch of other people who are (as far as we know) entirely innocent of any wrong-doing are effectively going to lose their jobs if Channel Awesome goes away--people like Malcolm Ray and Tamara Chambers, who really like working there and have never had a problem with the company, are just getting caught in the crossfire.

Both have been defending Michaud and the Walkers from the start. Malcolm has gone as far as muting anyone that criticizes Channel Awesome.

[Cizak]

Both have been defending Michaud and the Walkers from the start. Malcolm has gone as far as muting anyone that criticizes Channel Awesome.

Here (https://twitter.com/MalcolmtheRay/status/984278078045278210) for example, if anyone's curious.

[Lemmy]

Here (https://twitter.com/MalcolmtheRay/status/984278078045278210) for example, if anyone's curious.
That's an understandable reaction... Those are their bosses and possibly their friends. The accusations (many of which have no real evidence other than unsubstantiated claims) might not match Malcolm and Tamara's experience in working and dealing with the accused parties.

Are the people they are defending guilty of the accusations? Probably. But still... Their reaction is comprehensible, if not ideal.

Think about it: If people accused one of your friends of the things listed in the document, would you instantly believe them and turn your back on your friend without even giving him the benefit of doubt? Would you be completely pragmatic and objective in judging them? I can honestly answer "definitely not" to the former and "probably not" to the latter.

BTW, I'm guessing the main reason CA isn't apologizing is that an apology might be used against them in a potential law suit... It's pretty common behavior in cases where one side still has plausible deniability even if they are almost surely guilty.

[Dragonus45]

It’s also worth noting that newer CA members have commented that the business side seems to have greatly improved from what was reported before. And considering a fair deal of what was reported, aside from the sexual assault accusations and some claims of mike being sexist, were petty to begin with it makes sense they would want to defend their current meal ticket.

[Dorath]

Here (https://twitter.com/MalcolmtheRay/status/984278078045278210) for example, if anyone's curious.

That's going to cost a few SAG jobs.

[eggynack]

BTW, I'm guessing the main reason CA isn't apologizing is that an apology might be used against them in a potential law suit... It's pretty common behavior in cases where one side still has plausible deniability even if they are almost surely guilty.
Gotta say, if that was their intent, that weird refutation post they made was not exactly ideal. Some of the stuff in that post is pretty damning, honestly, and I couldn't imagine a lawyer ever okaying it. A lot of their "facts" were, "Yeah, that basically happened, but we're still cool dudes and won't apologize for any of it." In any case, this whole thing is some pretty high tier internet drama. I started reading that doc and was enraptured into reading the entire thing in one long sitting. Super interesting stuff.

[The Eye]

Can I say just I predicted there was something wrong with this guy some time ago?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535029-What-s-the-appeal-of-nostalgia-critic

[The Troubadour]

So, does CA still exist in some form? Has anything else happened, or have the revelations about Carmical finally burned everyone out on this whole sordid thing?

[Cikomyr]

What it is with these internet content hosts who always have a horrible track record to their providers?

First the Escalist, then CA

[Ramza00]

What it is with these internet content hosts who always have a horrible track record to their providers?

First the Escalist, then CA

Same stuff happen with Hollywood from the 1920s to 1950s.

[zimmerwald1915]

What it is with these internet content hosts who always have a horrible track record to their providers?

First the Escalist, then CA
There's no mystery. This sort of thing happens when the bosses have all the power and the workers have none.

[LaZodiac]

So, does CA still exist in some form? Has anything else happened, or have the revelations about Carmical finally burned everyone out on this whole sordid thing?

Far as I can tell literally two people remain on the site, one of whom is doing so purely as a joke that if he outlives the original creator it's his now.

So yeah no Channel Awesome as it once was is dead.

[Anonymouswizard]

Can I just I predicted there was soemthing wrong with this guy some time ago?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535029-What-s-the-appeal-of-nostalgia-critic

I remember that thread. Ah, the tangent about Starship Troopers, those were the days (I think I'd just finished a read through of the novel).


Far as I can tell literally two people remain on the site, one of whom is doing so purely as a joke that if he outlives the original creator it's his now.

So yeah no Channel Awesome as it once was is dead.

Yeah, essentially this. It's currently Doug, Brad Jones, and Guru Larry, plus Doug's additionals. But it's pretty much lost all it's talent, while Doug might have been the heavily promoted star he certainly was never the reason I used the site back in the day, and after blip closed and YouTube became the best replacement I eventually just stopped using the site at all, so nothing has changed for me or many other viewers in practice. The same content is still being put out, but it's just no longer Channel Awesome content.

I suspect there will eventually be some sort of group formed of ex-channel awesome members who still want to do all the crossovers and stuff, but I don't think we'll get another internet reviewer company out of it.

[factotum]

I don't think there's much danger of the predicted collapse now. They were haemorrhaging subscriptions on their Youtube channel for a while--I think they lost around 60k in all--but the subscriptions have now stabilised and are increasing again.

[Rynjin]

I suspect there will eventually be some sort of group formed of ex-channel awesome members who still want to do all the crossovers and stuff, but I don't think we'll get another internet reviewer company out of it.

I mean, the crossovers seem to still be going strong if Linkara's 500th episode celebration is any indicator.

Even SFDebris got in on the fun.

[Cikomyr]

I mean, the crossovers seem to still be going strong if Linkara's 500th episode celebration is any indicator.

Even SFDebris got in on the fun.

Did he appeared on Camera?!?!

[Anonymouswizard]

I mean, the crossovers seem to still be going strong if Linkara's 500th episode celebration is any indicator.

Even SFDebris got in on the fun.

Oh sure, I meant more as a way to make organising them easier.

I should probably look into Linkara.

[Lacuna Caster]

First the Escalist, then CA
Wait, what happened to the Escapist?

[Psyren]

Wait, what happened to the Escapist?

Mass exodus of content creators (Extra Credits, Jim Sterling, MovieBob, Critical Miss, Unskippable etc.) The reasons vary and probably aren't very sordid so much as they are a failure of Escapist's business model in a world where Patreon allows said content creators to answer directly to fans rather than to the rigid editorial mandates of the past. As near as I can tell though, Yahtzee is their biggest cash cow at the moment. Speaking personally Wednesdays are almost the only time I ever visit.

[Talakeal]

Did he appeared on Camera?!?!

No. Just voiceover.

[zimmerwald1915]

No. Just voiceover.
Chuck doesn't actually have a face, just an empty dark hole a la Squall from FF8.

[Cikomyr]

No. Just voiceover.

Still the funniest cameo

[Eldan]

Mass exodus of content creators (Extra Credits, Jim Sterling, MovieBob, Critical Miss, Unskippable etc.) The reasons vary and probably aren't very sordid so much as they are a failure of Escapist's business model in a world where Patreon allows said content creators to answer directly to fans rather than to the rigid editorial mandates of the past. As near as I can tell though, Yahtzee is their biggest cash cow at the moment. Speaking personally Wednesdays are almost the only time I ever visit.

Yeah. I mean, they are all on Youtube anyway these days, even Zero Punctuation. No reason to go to the Escapist, really. Haven't been in probably over a year and when I last saw it, it had no content I remotely cared about.

[Mokèlé-mbèmbé]

I was very much a fan of the early Nostalgia Critics and other content creators on ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com. I am ashamed to admit I even sent in an audition tape because, to 14 year old me, I found there to be a strange romance in that lifestyle.

This here feels like a culmination of my generation's burgeoning adulthood. We're becoming more discerning consumers of media now, I think, and aren't as liable to accept things as they are anymore.

[zimmerwald1915]

I am ashamed to admit I even sent in an audition tape because, to 14 year old me, I found there to be a strange romance in that lifestyle.
Why would you be ashamed of this? Kids seeing romance in showbiz is a tale as old as time. Certainly as old as Broadway or Hollywood, both of which are chock full of self-indulgent stories about kids abandoning their lives to move to the big city and become a star.

[Mokèlé-mbèmbé]

Why would you be ashamed of this? Kids seeing romance in showbiz is a tale as old as time. Certainly as old as Broadway or Hollywood, both of which are chick full of self-indulgent stories about kids abandoning their lives to move to the bug city and become a star.

Because I can't, for the life of me, imagine what the romance was.

[zimmerwald1915]

Because I can't, for the life of me, imagine what the romance was.
Well that's also entirely normal. "Wonder" is often paired with "childlike" and "idealism" with "youthful" for a reason - they're things we grow out of as we learn more about the real state of the world and how it will always remain basically the same and basically hostile.

[Psyren]

Yeah. I mean, they are all on Youtube anyway these days, even Zero Punctuation. No reason to go to the Escapist, really. Haven't been in probably over a year and when I last saw it, it had no content I remotely cared about.

ZP is on Youtube but it lags by a week there, so it's worth dropping in on Escapist once per week to catch his latest review.


I was very much a fan of the early Nostalgia Critics and other content creators on ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.com. I am ashamed to admit I even sent in an audition tape because, to 14 year old me, I found there to be a strange romance in that lifestyle.

This here feels like a culmination of my generation's burgeoning adulthood. We're becoming more discerning consumers of media now, I think, and aren't as liable to accept things as they are anymore.


Well that's also entirely normal. "Wonder" is often paired with "childlike" and "idealism" with "youthful" for a reason - they're things we grow out of as we learn more about the real state of the world and how it will always remain basically the same and basically hostile.

Yeesh, aren't you two sunny :smalltongue:

Look, there are lots of reasons to avoid the content creator/streamer lifestyle - the headache of being self-employed in the USA (if that's where you are) is definitely one of them - but the collapse of one media outlet shouldn't be. That has just as much to do with a changing business model and industry as it does any amount of mismanagement, misogyny, or whatever else was going wrong topside.

[Cikomyr]

Because I can't, for the life of me, imagine what the romance was.

"Ill be earning monet playing Video Games!"
"ill be earning money talking in front of a camera!"
"I'll be earning money selling weed!"

Kids that age have a growing concern about their place in the world, where the #1 concern society gives them is "how will you earn money?" Doing that while doing what you love seems a natural dream to hold for everyone.

****. I wished i knew how to earn money by playing board games.

[Mokèlé-mbèmbé]

Yeesh, aren't you two sunny :smalltongue:

Look, there are lots of reasons to avoid the content creator/streamer lifestyle - the headache of being self-employed in the USA (if that's where you are) is definitely one of them - but the collapse of one media outlet shouldn't be.

It's not Channel Awesome's recent downfall that's made me so skittish about my past, I'm actually just no longer a fan of that content. I've felt this way about my auditions for a few years now.


"Ill be earning monet playing Video Games!"
"ill be earning money talking in front of a camera!"
"I'll be earning money selling weed!"

Kids that age have a growing concern about their place in the world, where the #1 concern society gives them is "how will you earn money?" Doing that while doing what you love seems a natural dream to hold for everyone.

****. I wished i knew how to earn money by playing board games.

You're probably right. I think it was a bit of an ego boost, to. The idea that people would go out of their way to hear my opinions or something.

[Psyren]

****. I wished i knew how to earn money by playing board games.

Step 1: Get famous doing something else
Step 2: Befriend other famous people
Step 3: Invite them over for board games and film it
Step 4: Learn basic video editing
Step 5: Profit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MINNKyE4fjs)

[Aotrs Commander]

"Ill be earning monet playing Video Games!"
"ill be earning money talking in front of a camera!"
"I'll be earning money selling weed!"

Kids that age have a growing concern about their place in the world, where the #1 concern society gives them is "how will you earn money?" Doing that while doing what you love seems a natural dream to hold for everyone.

Really? 'Cos I certainly don't remember that being even distantly a concern when I was fourteen, nor especially in my mates. (Who were more into girls and such, if anything like that.) Cultural thing maybe?

[Cikomyr]

Really? 'Cos I certainly don't remember that being even distantly a concern when I was fourteen, nor especially in my mates. (Who were more into girls and such, if anything like that.) Cultural thing maybe?

That or ego trip maybe? Most teenagers can be egocentric at time.