Fictional Name for a Molotov

[8BitNinja]

So in the current RPG I am making, I am going to add craft item rules to making molotov cocktails. The problem is that this is a completely different world from Earth, and World War 2, The Winter War, Finland, the Soviet Union, and General Molotov all do not exist. Do you know a name people would call Molotovs in a completely fictional universe?

[hymer]

A bottle bomb? I think that's one we use in the real world, too. Or a [name of fuel] bomb.

[Honest Tiefling]

1) Use other real life names, such as 'bottle bombs' because sometimes people are unimaginative and really need something easy to remember to scream at the appropriate moments.

2) Instead of insulting Russians with the name, find another group within your campaign that people don't mind insulting. Stupid goblins and their goblin bombs.

[FreddyNoNose]

Do you throw them and they fly in the air? Are they on fire?

How about Fireflies!

BTW, they can have multiple nicknames...

[Celestia]

How about alchemist's fire?

[Jay R]

I suspect that your players will wind up calling them "those Molotov cocktails with the funny name".

If English is the language they speak, then they will continue to use the English term.

[Nifft]

Sunshine -> it's moonshine, except hotter & brighter.

Bunko's Lamp -> you could get a similar effect by hurling an expensive lantern, so this is the bargain-basement version.

Free Potions -> if people re-use potion vials as the container, this is something the hurlers might say.

Arson Jars -> in the spirit of calling arrow slits "murder holes".

[Celestia]

Arson Jars -> in the spirit of calling arrow slits "murder holes".
Arrow slits and murder holes are actually two different things. Arrow slits are, basically, small windows that are good for shooting arrows out of. Murder holes are holes in the ceiling, usually in a gatehouse, that people on the second floor can use to drop stones, boiling water, burning pitch, or other deadly things onto attackers.

[Fable Wright]

How about alchemist's fire?

+1 to this. A glass vial that explodes into sticky flame on contact? Sounds like Alchemist's Fire to me.

Alternatively, Gutter Fire—that kind of Alchemist's fire that comes from less respectable pedigree.

[dps]

Depending on how appropriate it might be to the setting, you could just call them "homemade fire bombs".

Or you could be lazy and call them Votolom cocktails. :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, the Molotov Cocktail was named for a famous use of the device. You could stick with that. Pick a major civil-military incident in your world's history and name it after that.

Or just leave the trivial detail alone. Do your players even know why it's called a Molotov Cocktail? If they don't know or care why it's called that in the first place, they won't care that you've changed it.

[Keltest]

I suspect that your players will wind up calling them "those Molotov cocktails with the funny name".

If English is the language they speak, then they will continue to use the English term.

This is my experience as well. Verisimilitude is all well and good, but ultimately if its a Molotov cocktail in all but name, then theyre quickly going to become Molotov cocktails in name as well. Much in the same way that nobody will remember the full name and title of His Lord Majesty, King Richard Hieronymus Umpwith Vermillion III, Lord of the Seven Towers and ruler of Thisland. He will be "the king" if youre lucky and "king dude" if you aren't.

[RazorChain]

Bottled Flame

Imp in a bottle

Pyromancers Piss

Fire Water

Liquid Inferno

Carafe of Conflagration

Devil's suprise

Blazing tears

Ignis Aqua

[Mr Beer]

Spicy Lights

But really everyone is going to call them Molotovs.

[Jay R]

Imp in a bottle

Most of your ideas will work, but I wouldn't use this in a game system with actual imps, unless the contents of the bottle included one.

[Mastikator]

Gandalf Cocktail

[RazorChain]

Most of your ideas will work, but I wouldn't use this in a game system with actual imps, unless the contents of the bottle included one.

Was just writing what popped up in my head withour thinking about the explicit Imp-lication of the system or the setting

[Blackhawk748]

How about just calling it a Firebomb? Cuz thats what it is

[Deophaun]

The problem is that this is a completely different world from Earth, and World War 2, The Winter War, Finland, the Soviet Union, and General Molotov all do not exist.
I hate to tell you this, but then English itself is a problem. Lots of English words are based off people or places. Armageddon? Is there a Megiddo Valley in your world? Macabre? Did the Maccabees exist? You're going to have lots of problems if you insist on replacing words that reference people, places, or events that never happened in your world.

[Nifft]

I hate to tell you this, but then English itself is a problem. Lots of English words are based off people or places. Armageddon? Is there a Megiddo Valley in your world? Macabre? Did the Maccabees exist? You're going to have lots of problems if you insist on replacing words that reference people, places, or events that never happened in your world.

That would be the argument's Achilles heel.

-- -- --

Anyway, back on topic:

Discount Druid - "it burns down houses", just like those nasty Druid people did last equinox.

[Raphite1]

How about alchemist's fire?

Yeah it's this. Lotta talk in this thread about a non-existent problem. :smalltongue:

[Spore]

Who says there isn't a Dwarven general called Molotov? :smallamused:

[Xuc Xac]

A glass vial that explodes into sticky flame on contact? Sounds like Alchemist's Fire to me.

Alchemist's Fire costs 20gp per flask and spontaneously ignites when it breaks. A molotov is an oil flask with a burning rag tied around it. It only costs 1sp. You can get 200 molotovs for the cost of one flask of Alchemist's Fire. Before Alchemist's Fire was added to the list of standard equipment, we just used flasks of lamp oil. We called them oil flasks.

[Deophaun]

Alchemist's Fire costs 20gp per flask and spontaneously ignites when it breaks. A molotov is an oil flask with a burning rag tied around it.
An oil flask wouldn't work (and in 3.5 it was a generous 50/50 shot if it did) because room-temperature oil is difficult to ignite with an errant flame. A molotov uses gasoline or alcohol as a base instead; something flammable with a low vaporization point because it's a heck of a lot easier to ignite the gases than the liquid. Then there are various other things that can be added to it to turn it into something resembling napalm.

[Xuc Xac]

An oil flask wouldn't work (and in 3.5 it was a generous 50/50 shot if it did) because room-temperature oil is difficult to ignite with an errant flame. A molotov uses gasoline or alcohol as a base instead; something flammable with a low vaporization point because it's a heck of a lot easier to ignite the gases than the liquid. Then there are various other things that can be added to it to turn it into something resembling napalm.

That's still really cheap compared to Alchemist's Fire. You can get moonshine for the same silver piece that buys a flask of lamp oil. Even if you want to splurge on fancy bandy for small batch artisanal masterwork molotovs, it's still half the cost of Alchemist's Fire.

[Knaight]

I hate to tell you this, but then English itself is a problem. Lots of English words are based off people or places. Armageddon? Is there a Megiddo Valley in your world? Macabre? Did the Maccabees exist? You're going to have lots of problems if you insist on replacing words that reference people, places, or events that never happened in your world.

There are degrees of separation there though - digging into the etymology is a bit different than there being an obvious name front and center, with words like "bowlderize" or "fletcherize" filling in the middle. Sure, "labyrinthine" is derived pretty obviously from "labyrinth", which made its way into English primarily through one particular story, but it isn't a word that's going to stand out when referring to an area. Contacting someone in the area and saying something like "Minotaur, this is Theseus, where you at?*" is far more blatant.

*This is an actual quote related to actual navigation being done within a friend group.

[Eldan]

Terry Pratchett once wrote an essay on that. I think he started out with the word "Sandwich" arguing that there's obviously no Earl of Sandwich on the Discworld, but if he called them "Sto-Lats" after the Duke of Sto-Lat or something, no one would get it. Then he listed a few dozen others.

I think in the end, does it hurt anyone if you just use that name?

[Cespenar]

Terry Pratchett once wrote an essay on that. I think he started out with the word "Sandwich" arguing that there's obviously no Earl of Sandwich on the Discworld, but if he called them "Sto-Lats" after the Duke of Sto-Lat or something, no one would get it. Then he listed a few dozen others.

I think in the end, does it hurt anyone if you just use that name?

True, but you can easily whip up some "simple english" equivalents which could spice up your setting, directly convey the meaning, and at the same time be tiny bit more consistent.

Like, I don't know, "packed bread" instead of sandwich?

Oil bomb, or fire bottle instead of molotov cocktail.

Of course, trying to be 100% with it would be impractical if not downright impossible, but still, some conversions might not hurt.

[Incorrect]

Flammy Blammy

Hotter Potter

Burny Urny

Blaze Vase

[2D8HP]

"Flame cologne"

[Lvl 2 Expert]

You could always write up some lore about the Molotov gang who vandalized a lot of public places about 20 to 30 years ago. In the name of social justice, they claimed.

[Corneel]

"Flame cologne"
"Cologne" presents similar problems as "Molotov".

[Lord Torath]

How about Flame Flask. I also like Bottle Bomb. Both have that nice alliteration bit going for them.

[The Glyphstone]

That's still really cheap compared to Alchemist's Fire. You can get moonshine for the same silver piece that buys a flask of lamp oil. Even if you want to splurge on fancy bandy for small batch artisanal masterwork molotovs, it's still half the cost of Alchemist's Fire.

Which makes sense, because the necessary incendiary components to make a real-life Molotov are cheaper and far easier to find in RL than they would be in a typical D&D setting, due to the lack of industrialization. So they actually would be more expensive...probably about what an alchemist's fire flask costs.

Mostly, I'm wondering how these intended molotovs will mechanically differ in any way from existing options. A Pint of oil can be used as an improvised flask weapon, with a 50% chance of igniting successfully. That's the poor-man's molotov. Alchemist's fire pays a hefty premium to burn more reliably and more potently.

[Jay R]

"Cologne" presents similar problems as "Molotov".

... which puts the problem in sharp relief. Was there Latin, French or German in that world? Most of our English words come from the history of those languages and European history, as well as mythology.

No Norman Invasion? No distinction between "beef" and "cow".
No Latin background? Nothing high-tech is called "digital".
No English conquest of India? No words "atoll", "khaki", "loot", "pyjamas", "shampoo", "thug", and others.
No Rashīd ad-Dīn Sinān? No word "assassin".
No algorithms, Achilles's heel, ammonia, nachos, atlas, Caesarean section, Miranda rights, bonds, boycott, braille, sideburns, brutality, cardigans, chaos, diesel engine, dunce cap, echo, Europe, America, Fahrenheit scale, flora, fauna, gigantic, lynching, museum, ocean, odyssey, quislings, sadism, satire, sandwich, shrapnel, sillhouette, uranium, and a host more, including many place names, product names, and scientific terms.

The truth is that the term "Molotov cocktail" is not unique in being tied to the history of our world. It's just more obvious in that case.

You just can't do it. You can't divest English from the history of this world.

You can invent an entirely new language, or go ahead and speak in English - all of it.

[2D8HP]

...You can invent an entirely new language, or go ahead and speak in English - all of it.


Well then the solution is obvious.

So shall it be Sindarin or Quenya?

[Knaight]

You can invent an entirely new language, or go ahead and speak in English - all of it.

Or you can use a subset of English, sticking to the words that feel appropriate for a setting - which may be different even when describing the same thing. In a fantasy game I'll use the term "lye", in science fiction I may well use "sodium hydroxide". The intellectuals in a fantasy society might codify things by identifying functional similarities, but I'm not using the term "duck typing" to describe it, as technical CS terminology can be immediately jarring. Similarly I wouldn't use "wolfram" or "oil of vitriol" or even "brimstone" in a high tech setting. They're all English words, they're all denotatively fine, and every last one of them just feels wrong.

Connotation matters, and with certain terms the connotation can include them just seeming like they belong in a different context. Exactly where that line is can vary, but it's hardly unreasonable for a term containing a proper noun to end up on a different side of it than a term that eventually traces back to another language, or even a term that eventually traces back to a proper noun but is unlikely to be identified as such even among the people who routinely use it (e.g. algorithm).

[Cicciograna]

Call it Murderous Ordnance Launched Ominously Towards Opposing Villains.

Or, in short, M.O.L.O.T.O.V.

[8BitNinja]

Mostly, I'm wondering how these intended molotovs will mechanically differ in any way from existing options. A Pint of oil can be used as an improvised flask weapon, with a 50% chance of igniting successfully. That's the poor-man's molotov. Alchemist's fire pays a hefty premium to burn more reliably and more potently.

In the game I'm making, there is an "Alchemist Fire" weapon, but it functions more like Greek Fire, and is moderately expensive. Molotovs would be a much cheaper alternative, at the cost of having a temporary fire as opposed to the (mostly) permanent inferno caused by Alchemist Fire.

Basically, Molotovs are cheap antipersonnel devices, while alchemist fire is better used for counter mobility

[Jay R]

Or you can use a subset of English, sticking to the words that feel appropriate for a setting - which may be different even when describing the same thing. In a fantasy game I'll use the term "lye", in science fiction I may well use "sodium hydroxide". The intellectuals in a fantasy society might codify things by identifying functional similarities, but I'm not using the term "duck typing" to describe it, as technical CS terminology can be immediately jarring. Similarly I wouldn't use "wolfram" or "oil of vitriol" or even "brimstone" in a high tech setting. They're all English words, they're all denotatively fine, and every last one of them just feels wrong.

Connotation matters, and with certain terms the connotation can include them just seeming like they belong in a different context. Exactly where that line is can vary, but it's hardly unreasonable for a term containing a proper noun to end up on a different side of it than a term that eventually traces back to another language, or even a term that eventually traces back to a proper noun but is unlikely to be identified as such even among the people who routinely use it (e.g. algorithm).

Don't tease. If you have a solution, please share it with us.

You gave a great defense for using another English phrase that means the same thing as "Molotov cocktail" with better connotations. The only thing missing is the term you're defending.

I think everyone agrees with your background approach, and would prefer a term with better connotations. If you have such a term, you didn't need all this defense - just offer that term.

If you don't have such a term then all this perfectly valid background led nowhere.

I suspect that either everyone will call them Molotov cocktails, or the GM will call them one thing and the players will call them "those Molotov cocktails with the funny name".

[Lord Torath]

I suspect that either everyone will call them Molotov cocktails, or the GM will call them one thing and the players will call them "those Molotov cocktails with the funny name".Unless you can make the new name more fun to say than "Molotov Cocktail". If you can do that, your players will latch right on to it. But it's got to be memorable, and easier and more fun to say than the original, for whatever psuedo-english (or French, Russian, Italian, or whatever your "common" tongue happens to be) term you're trying to replace: Greek Fire, Russian Roulette, French Vanilla, Marathon, or Bohemian. If it's not, just stick with the original, etymology be darned.

[KarlMarx]

They are cheap, easy-to-make ways of setting many things on fire quickly.

Goblins enjoy setting things on fire quickly.

Goblins are cheapskates.

They are Goblin Bombs.

QED.

[tyckspoon]

This is my experience as well. Verisimilitude is all well and good, but ultimately if its a Molotov cocktail in all but name, then theyre quickly going to become Molotov cocktails in name as well. Much in the same way that nobody will remember the full name and title of His Lord Majesty, King Richard Hieronymus Umpwith Vermillion III, Lord of the Seven Towers and ruler of Thisland. He will be "the king" if youre lucky and "king dude" if you aren't.

Nah, he's King ****. King **** H. Ump. King **** H. Ump Vill. I guarantee you the players will not have trouble remembering his name... Well, ok, the full proper name, sure, but if yours are anything like 95% of the ones I've met that guy will have about six player-generated nicknames.

Edit: Oh right, filter. That's not deliberate obscenity, just the common nickname for 'Richard' that a certain level of immature humor will immediately latch onto. Especially if you give the players any reason to dislike the King of Thisland, Sworn Protector of Thatland and historical ally of the ruling family of Thoseland.

[Keltest]

Nah, he's King ****. King **** H. Ump. King **** H. Ump Vill. I guarantee you the players will not have trouble remembering his name... Well, ok, the full proper name, sure, but if yours are anything like 95% of the ones I've met that guy will have about six player-generated nicknames.

Edit: Oh right, filter. That's not deliberate obscenity, just the common nickname for 'Richard' that a certain level of immature humor will immediately latch onto. Especially if you give the players any reason to dislike the King of Thisland, Sworn Protector of Thatland and historical ally of the ruling family of Thoseland.

Once my players ran into a dragon who was shapeshifted into a dwarf. He had a real name, but his armor was shiny, so he was forever known as Shinydwarf, even though we immediately knew he was a dragon.

Unrelated, we named the NPC paladin's warhorse Sillypants.

[Xuc Xac]

Which makes sense, because the necessary incendiary components to make a real-life Molotov are cheaper and far easier to find in RL than they would be in a typical D&D setting, due to the lack of industrialization. So they actually would be more expensive...probably about what an alchemist's fire flask costs.


What industrialization? I've been on farms in undeveloped countries that didn't have electricity or running water, but they produced moonshine and sold it at a hefty markup for 50 cents per liter. You just need something to ferment, some crockery, and a rag.

[Nightcanon]

Molotov? Wasn't that the name of that pyromaniac dwarf/half-orc/halfling* adventurer from insertnamehere, who was always chucking firebombs around?
*delete as applicable

[PhoenixPhyre]

Once my players ran into a dragon who was shapeshifted into a dwarf. He had a real name, but his armor was shiny, so he was forever known as Shinydwarf, even though we immediately knew he was a dragon.

Unrelated, we named the NPC paladin's warhorse Sillypants.

I can't contribute on the main topic (because I am horrible at naming things), but...

I had a very serious, "zealot paladin" NPC that arrested the PCs for a trumped up crime (she didn't know it was false). A couple of the players took the "allergic to authority figures" flaw at character creation. So they decided to give her an in-character nickname. Sparkles. Because she was an aasimar with glowy hair.

The best part was that the paladin's superior found it quite amusing, so she couldn't do anything but glower about it. It is now part of the lore of my setting--there are a grand total of 5 people allowed to call her Sparkles. The four PCs and her superior. For anyone else, it's defined as a form of suicide.

[Jay R]

It's a ranged weapon dealing damage. I'm astounded nobody's suggested "Melf cocktail".

[Keltest]

It's a ranged weapon dealing damage. I'm astounded nobody's suggested "Melf cocktail".

Its not a male elf dealing damage though. Although theres a terrifying thought.