Occultist- interesting in concept, but is it any good?

[Foxhound438]

I was bored today and decided to read through some of the occultist class's abilities. It definitely seems interesting, particularly with the various focus powers, but the way its spellcasting is very much limited by its implements makes me question how mechanically good it could be. While having non-prepared spellcasting is probably pretty good, you're still pretty restricted in what spells you get to know. Moreover, it definitely looks like something that a GM could actively screw you on by just blowing up all your toys.

So is this class fun and interesting to play or just another classic PF noob trap like apparently 90% of the system is?

[Ellrin]

In general, like most 6/9 casters, occultist functions on a roughly Tier 3 level. Power's list, if you buy into that sort of thing, puts it towards the low end of that tier, along with magus, warpriest, and spiritualist.

I haven't looked very far into the class myself, but considering the facts that it's got a pretty decent spell list, ends up getting more spells known than any other 6/9 spontaneous casting class does by default, and functions as a melee combatant with the right selection of implements before even resorting to spell-buffing, and you've got a solid class. The variety of implement and spell selections allows for a pretty wide range of party roles, depending on your build.

That said, yes, the occultist's way of learning spells does throw a bit of a wrench in what spells you can learn, and there's even more class options for occultists than there are for most other casters, making them both difficult to play well, and just plain difficult to play, for system novices.

As you say, bad DMs can actively screw occultists over pretty good, as well, but that's true of pretty nearly every class; occultists are just slightly more vulnerable to it happening purely by accident.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I was bored today and decided to read through some of the occultist class's abilities. It definitely seems interesting, particularly with the various focus powers, but the way its spellcasting is very much limited by its implements makes me question how mechanically good it could be. While having non-prepared spellcasting is probably pretty good, you're still pretty restricted in what spells you get to know. Moreover, it definitely looks like something that a GM could actively screw you on by just blowing up all your toys.

So is this class fun and interesting to play or just another classic PF noob trap like apparently 90% of the system is?

The occultist is, imo, the best full BAB class in the game. Occultist 5 is also afaik the only single class method of taking all levels of Desna’s two PrCs by 20.

[Serafina]

The thing to keep in mind with the Occultist is that they can do far more than their spell list indicates.

The most obvious example is using Trappings of the Warrior (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/OccultistImplementsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Trappings %20of%20the%20Warrior), and just making a martial full-BAB character. It costs surprisingly little - picking two good implement schools, and spending one implement choice on the Trappings - and obviously a full-BAB character with extra powers and good skill points and utility spells is pretty good.
Indeed, if you throw in Haunt Collector and use a ranged weapon (by using a Buckler for your implement) you can rank among the best archer characters, assuming you use your spells and focus powers right.

But there's other pretty good stuff.
For example, you can make a pretty good minionmancer. Shadow Beast from the Illusion implement is fully-scaling Summon Monster, as a standard action, for only 1 mental focus. Necromantic Servant might not give you a powerful companion, but it's cheap and survivable. The resonant power from Necromancy is also great if you want to work with undead.

There's a bunch more things you can do, but overall the Occultist is at their best if you think of them as a martial character with added magical powers.

[Foxhound438]

The thing to keep in mind with the Occultist is that they can do far more than their spell list indicates.

The most obvious example is using Trappings of the Warrior (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/OccultistImplementsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Trappings %20of%20the%20Warrior), and just making a martial full-BAB character. It costs surprisingly little - picking two good implement schools, and spending one implement choice on the Trappings - and obviously a full-BAB character with extra powers and good skill points and utility spells is pretty good.
Indeed, if you throw in Haunt Collector and use a ranged weapon (by using a Buckler for your implement) you can rank among the best archer characters, assuming you use your spells and focus powers right.

But there's other pretty good stuff.
For example, you can make a pretty good minionmancer. Shadow Beast from the Illusion implement is fully-scaling Summon Monster, as a standard action, for only 1 mental focus. Necromantic Servant might not give you a powerful companion, but it's cheap and survivable. The resonant power from Necromancy is also great if you want to work with undead.

There's a bunch more things you can do, but overall the Occultist is at their best if you think of them as a martial character with added magical powers.

Seems neat and potentially good. Is there a feat for extra focus? It seems that to get full BAB you would have to put most of your focus into that, and I do like the other implements' focus powers enough to want some of those.

[Florian]

So is this class fun and interesting to play or just another classic PF noob trap like apparently 90% of the system is?

Hm. Actually, it´s one of the most flexible classes around and I would not, under any circumstance, hand it to a "noob". Thing is, the whole decision-making process for this class is extremely front loaded and you must be really good at anticipating your group and what type(s) of adventures and campaigns you're going to be in to get the most out of it.

Each Implement is basically tied to one major activity in the game, while the Trappings cover some of the traditional roles and can partially replace other classes for a while.

So it´s a bit harder to actually plan a build for this class. Conjuration pulls double-duty as "face" and "minionmancy", while Divination has incredible powers of scouting and perception, allowing to replace a rogue, while the aforementioned Trappings of the Warrior or Trappings of the Mage allows for very good and flexible strikers.

Then there're the little details. Evocation seems to be bland, but it allows to bind a relatively cheap Refocussing Rod, allowing to reallocate Focus Points on the fly without having a loss and it works extremely well with VMC Magus.

Personally, I'm not really a friend of using Trappings of the Warrior for a straight weapon-based combatant replacement. Repeating a block of Fighter (Weapon Master) 3/Occultist (Panoply Savant) 2 with the Trappings will lead to the (possibly) most flexible Iron Caster around there.

I´ve had some good experience with the "Elf generalist", not using an archetype and going for both panoplies, Mage and Warrior, using the FCB to shore up Focus Points to shift around with the aforementioned rod.

[Firest Kathon]

Is there a feat for extra focus?
Yes, there is (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-mental-focus/).

[ATHATH]

The occultist is, imo, the best full BAB class in the game. Occultist 5 is also afaik the only single class method of taking all levels of Desna’s two PrCs by 20.
Actually, the weird innate spellcasting that Spherewalker gives you seems to be able to qualify you for Sphere Singer by itself, which means that almost any Full BAB class can take all of the levels of both of Desna's PrCs by level 20.

[ATHATH]

Question here: Can Silksworn use panolpies?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Actually, the weird innate spellcasting that Spherewalker gives you seems to be able to qualify you for Sphere Singer by itself, which means that almost any Full BAB class can take all of the levels of both of Desna's PrCs by level 20.

Interesting. I guess the better phrasing would be that it’s simply the *best* single-class entry since you actually have proper casting to progress

[Wartex1]

Any Occultist can use Panoplies, I believe.