How do you do a classic non-lethal tavern brawl

[Wasp]

Hello everyone

I was wondering: As my parties are usually set up for more lethal combat situations - how would you in general create a fun and exciting Tavern Brawl encounter you know from the movies?

[Falcon X]

Well, anyone can choose to do nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. Though it’s really only the final blow that matters.
Besides that, the most important thing in this situation is environment. Knowing where all the tables to use as shields, bottles, chandeliers, etc. those are going to be your cinematic points.

You might set up a system that doesn’t use their normal HP. Maybe they have 1+Con HP for this fight. Then you assign points to every blow. A successful punch is one point. Using an improvised weapon deals two points. Using a barrier takes away 1 point. Something like that.

[CTurbo]

Use regular damage but 0 hit points just means getting knocked out

[Unoriginal]

Well, anyone can choose to do nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. Though it’s really only the final blow that matters.

That's it. People are hitting each other without choosing the lethal option (most of the time, anyway)

Important thing is to find a way to have the players be interested in it and find it funny. One way to do this is to have the NPCs pull out flashy, but impractical moves, like throwing chickens or the like. Also, keep in mind unless the PCs have some something to piss off everyone, the various patrons will probably fight each other.

A nice thing to do is to have varied patrons. Dwarves, Elves, Tabaxi, goblins, Ogres, etc, could be part of the custommers, not to mention other adventurers and intelligent creatures who are not human-looking. A Flumph in a bar brawl could be fun.

[Tanarii]

Check weapons at the door.

[Notafish]

While I understand why non-killing blows are allowed with all melee weapons in normal combat situations in 5e, for me a bar fight involving spells, blades and ranged weapons has a much different feel than one involving only unarmed strikes and improvised weapons - in movies, if someone pulls out a knife during a fistfight, it is a signifier that [stuff] just got real.

Another problem is that non-monk characters are going to deal just 1+str damage with unarmed strikes (or 1d4+str damage with club-like improvised weapons), which gives the players some good incentives to resort to the same sorts of tactics they'd use in a dungeon during this encounter, unless there are consequences for using magic and weapons in populated areas.

I'd also want to consider objectives and consequences carefully when planning the encounter - why is the bar fight starting? what is the party's goal? A fight with local toughs who don't like you hanging out in their pub is going to have different goals than if the party is trying to stop the fight, subdue an informant, or intimidate the tavern owner. The only encounter sort of like this that I've run involved the party acting as crowd control at a bard's concert -- dealing obvious damage led to a rowdier crowd, so there was incentive to prefer grapples and social checks over direct violence.

For brawl with lots of property damage but no lethality, I'd want to establish serious consequences for manslaughter in the tavern's local jurisdiction while giving the party some incentive for doing stunts and using improvised weapons. This might be as simple as having the opposition/non-aligned combatants set examples (throwing bottles, creating barriers out of tables, sliding someone down the bar), or you might want to come up with custom rules, like those Falcon X suggested.

[Unoriginal]

While I understand why non-killing blows are allowed with all melee weapons in normal combat situations in 5e, for me a bar fight involving spells, blades and ranged weapons has a much different feel than one involving only unarmed strikes and improvised weapons - in movies, if someone pulls out a knife during a fistfight, it is a signifier that [stuff] just got real.

Spells and ranged weapons can't do non-lethal damages, so using them is basically saying "I'm trying to murder everyone". Non-lethal spells don't have this problem, but they don't deal damage in the first place.



Another problem is that non-monk characters are going to deal just 1+str damage with unarmed strikes (or 1d4+str damage with club-like improvised weapons)

Not a problem. Monks are better in fistfights, same way an archer would be better in an archery contest.



which gives the players some good incentives to resort to the same sorts of tactics they'd use in a dungeon during this encounter, unless there are consequences for using magic and weapons in populated areas.

If there is no consequences for this, something is wrong.



For brawl with lots of property damage but no lethality, I'd want to establish serious consequences for manslaughter in the tavern's local jurisdiction while giving the party some incentive for doing stunts and using improvised weapons. This might be as simple as having the opposition/non-aligned combatants set examples (throwing bottles, creating barriers out of tables, sliding someone down the bar), or you might want to come up with custom rules, like those Falcon X suggested.

No need for complex special rules, just say stuff breaks after X numbers of hits against it, or made with it.

[Tanarii]

Spells and ranged weapons can't do non-lethal damages, so using them is basically saying "I'm trying to murder everyone". Non-lethal spells don't have this problem, but they don't deal damage in the first place.
Check spellcasters at the door too.

Honestly though, D&D has never been the right game for a "classic tavern brawl". It's a wargamer turned into an RPG. It's an extrapolation of large unit warfare scaled down to skirmish-sized ... uh, skirmishes. Not unarmed combat where you're not trying to kill someone else.

[JackPhoenix]

Another problem is that non-monk characters are going to deal just 1+str damage with unarmed strikes (or 1d4+str damage with club-like improvised weapons), which gives the players some good incentives to resort to the same sorts of tactics they'd use in a dungeon during this encounter, unless there are consequences for using magic and weapons in populated areas.

If there only was some feat to improve unarmed damage, make characters proficient with improvised weapons, and perhaps have some extra options, like improving grappling... you could call it, I don't know, Tavern Brawler....