spells for my celestial pact tomelock?

[Rfkannen]

So a campaign I am in is restarting soon, and I realized that I have completely lost the spell list for my character! So I was wondering if y'all had any advice on what spells to take.

The character is a level 5 tiefling celestial pact tome warlock with the prodigy feat(deception expertise, the dm allows progidy for non-humans). He is a cult leader. Goal right not is to get more followers and to convince every noble house in the area to wage war on the other houses (so the cult can swoop in after the
war and take over)

He has 20 charisma, 17 dex, and garbage every other stat. Has a +1 rod of the pact keeper.

Any tips on what spells to take?

[nickl_2000]

What other PCs are in the party? It makes a huge difference.

[Rfkannen]

What other PCs are in the party? It makes a huge difference.

eagle barbarian

necromancer wizard (with a fighter level and uses booming and greenflame blade)

alchemist artificer

glamour bard

a new cleric i don't know the domain of

and a beast master revised ranger, but she isn't going to be in the game for a couple months. Archery build.

[Vogie]

Spell Suggestions!
Cantrips:

EB and/or Toll the Dead
Prestidigitation
I don't think you need the Friends Cantrip... as a cult leader you'd want more lasting impacting stuff.

6 spells:

Guiding Bolt
Cure Wounds & Revivfy (if your cleric doesn't have them, other wise Healing Elixir and Remove Curse would work)
Hex
Suggestion
Charm Person


Tome Cantrips:

Vicious Mockery
Spare the Dying
Mending

[Crgaston]

The above are good suggestions; let me add a couple more.

Hypnotic Pattern. This inflicts the Charmed and Incapacitated conditions for a minute, which means you can monologue uninterrupted and with advantage on your Persuasion or Deception.

Tongues. You can do the above in any language.

[Platypusbill]

I wouldn't recommend Guiding Bolt. By level 5, Eldritch Blast + Agonising Blast already does 21 average damage with maxed Charisma, which is equal to Guiding Bolt cast with a 3rd-level slot. It's not a bad spell, but it scales poorly with higher-level slots, and competes with the best damaging cantrip in the game. OP would be better off with another damage-dealing spell.

[Daphne]

I wouldn't recommend Guiding Bolt. By level 5, Eldritch Blast + Agonising Blast already does 21 average damage with maxed Charisma, which is equal to Guiding Bolt cast with a 3rd-level slot. It's not a bad spell, but it scales poorly with higher-level slots, and competes with the best damaging cantrip in the game. OP would be better off with another damage-dealing spell.

I agree with the post above, I suggest picking Shatter to have an AoE damage option. For Cantrips from Tome, I usually pick Shillelagh.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I wouldn't take toll the dead. It's nice to have something that targets a save, but realistically you're going to be better off with agonizing eldritch blast in nearly every situation. I'd rather have a utility cantrip like message or minor illusion.

[AHF]

I wouldn't recommend Guiding Bolt. By level 5, Eldritch Blast + Agonising Blast already does 21 average damage with maxed Charisma, which is equal to Guiding Bolt cast with a 3rd-level slot. It's not a bad spell, but it scales poorly with higher-level slots, and competes with the best damaging cantrip in the game. OP would be better off with another damage-dealing spell.

Doesn't a celestial warlock already get Guiding Bolt and Cure Wounds as free first level spells?

[Rfkannen]

Doesn't a celestial warlock already get Guiding Bolt and Cure Wounds as free first level spells?

No, they are just added to the list of spells a warlock CAN pick. The only spells they get for free are sacred flame and light.

[Vogie]

Doesn't a celestial warlock already get Guiding Bolt and Cure Wounds as free first level spells?

No, they get the option to add them. Warlocks have expanded spell lists to choose their limited spells from, while Clerics/Rangers have spells they just learn by default.

Celestials do get Sacred Flame & Light in addition to their normal cantrips

[rbstr]

Clearly need to take Eldritch Blast.

I would pick up Revivify, even with the cleric around...what if the cleric dies? And what better way to get a cult forming around you than bringing people back to life?
Cure Wounds might be worth it if your party is gonna short rest and still have a slot to burn. But it shouldn't get combat use.

Flaming Sphere is a pretty good pick for offering a bit of AOE and a bit of control/obstruction and a bonus action "attack".
Misty Step or Thunderstep for an escape option.
Suggestion is pretty good.



I wouldn't take toll the dead. It's nice to have something that targets a save, but realistically you're going to be better off with agonizing eldritch blast in nearly every situation.
Totally agree, ToD really isn't that worth it. Plus he gets Sacred Flame for free and it works with Radiant Soul.


For Cantrips from Tome, I usually pick Shillelagh.
That's a trap pick past level 5 on a character without another melee cantrip or extra attack. Better off with something that actually scales.
And even if he does get a melee cantrip - he's got 17 dex - he can swing a dagger just fine.

So, Green Flame Blade is a decent choice on its own if he wants something for backup in melee. It'll even add the Radiant Soul damage at level 6.

[Vogie]

I wouldn't take toll the dead. It's nice to have something that targets a save, but realistically you're going to be better off with agonizing eldritch blast in nearly every situation. I'd rather have a utility cantrip like message or minor illusion.

Unless they're not picking up Agonizing blast as an invocation. That is an option, largely *because* they have Radiant Soul at 6 giving them this feature with *any* Fire/Radiant damage source, as opposed to an invocation that only effects EB.

If they're going for a more debuffer role, TtD also could be better because the scaling doesn't rely on making several independent rays hit (EB), and will outdamage Sacred flame early (that is, prior to radiant soul coming online).

[rbstr]

If they're going for a more debuffer role, TtD also could be better because the scaling doesn't rely on making several independent rays hit (EB)

You're saying this from a perspective that each hit allows a new save?
Otherwise the independent hits aren't any different average damage wise than a single hit, when the chance to hit is the same.
Though, in this case it's usually easier to hit AC rather than target a save. Particularly a "common" save like wisdom. Because of that EB is going to be a better damage cantrip than ToD against the majority of creatures even without taking agonizing.

[Rfkannen]

Unless they're not picking up Agonizing blast as an invocation. That is an option, largely *because* they have Radiant Soul at 6 giving them this feature with *any* Fire/Radiant damage source, as opposed to an invocation that only effects EB.

If they're going for a more debuffer role, TtD also could be better because the scaling doesn't rely on making several independent rays hit (EB), and will outdamage Sacred flame early (that is, prior to radiant soul coming online).

Huh, I hadn't conisdered not useing eldritch blast and agonizing blast. Does it work?

I mean, sacred flame even with radiant soul does 5 less damage a turn, but it doesn't cost you an invocation.

Do you think just using sacred flame is worth it?

[Vogie]

Right. A level 5:

EB will be 2 rays, which is 2 ranged spell attacks; You have to hit both, each dealing 1d10 force, thus 2d10 (average 6 damage, presuming both hit). While it can crit, it is also effected by cover and can involve disadvantage if the target gets too close. 120 ft range.
Sacred Flame will be a single Dex throw (ignores cover); they take 2d8 Radiant, average 5 damage if they fail the throw. 60 ft range
Toll the dead will be a single Wisdom throw; it'll do 2d8 of necrotic damage if they haven't taken damage (average 5), 2d12 if they have taken damage (average 7). 60 ft range


If you're in a game with any type of debuffing or tactics, suddenly the lower two get a whole lot better. Targets automatically lose their Dex throws if they're knocked prone or restrained, for example. If the target is hit by Bestow Curse, or something similar, either by you (via Sign of Ill Omen) or by your cleric, giving the target disadvantage on Wisdom Saving throws, Toll the dead will outperform EB (which they may do, as it's one of their "combos").

I won't say that EB is bad - Especially if you augment with Agonizing Blast, and maybe even pick up the Spell Sniper Feat to avoid most cover. The average tome lock would do that.

However, since you're Celestial, and you may not be trying to augment JUST EB, since Radiant Soul is ANY fire or Radiant damage, you may not want to make that investment. You won't be super-minmaxed, but if you are playing with competent players, you'll still do fine. You could even pick up something like Hellish Rebuke, Flaming Sphere, Create Bonfire, Fire bolt (via Tome), Burning hands or chromatic orb (picked up via Ancient Secrets) et cetera, if you wanted to.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Intelligent play will also benefit eldritch blast. Battlefield control spells can force enemies out of cover, and there are combos like darkness plus devil's sight that basically always provide advantage. Elves can take Elven Accuracy for super-advantage, as well. And agonizing blast doesn't just increase the average damage; it essentially doubles it. A warlock with 20 Cha adds five damage to each eldritch blast hit, raising the average damage to 10.5 per hit. Those attacks can be made at double the range of both sacred flame and toll the dead. Too, further invocations can give edritch blast other useful riders, like forced movement or speed debuffs. Toll the dead and sacred flame are both fine blasting cantrips, but both are outclassed unless you expect your enemies to fail Wis or Dex saves twice as often as you are capable of hitting their AC.

If you're into the fire and sacred power elements of playing a celestial warlock, then that's fine and go for it (though maybe have a look at the divine soul sorcerer). Decisions made to create an interesting character are usually better than decisions made for the sake of power. If you just want to have a reasonable spell list, I think agonizing eldritch blast and a utility cantrip is indisputably better than toll the dead plus eldritch blast or any other option.

[Crgaston]

Right. A level 5:
However, since you're Celestial, and you may not be trying to augment JUST EB, since Radiant Soul is ANY fire or Radiant damage, you may not want to make that investment. You won't be super-minmaxed, but if you are playing with competent players, you'll still do fine. You could even pick up something like Hellish Rebuke, Flaming Sphere, Create Bonfire, Fire bolt (via Tome), Burning hands or chromatic orb (picked up via Ancient Secrets) et cetera, if you wanted to.


Ooh, yep, Create Bonfire! A concentration cantrip! That does fire damage!

You can drop it on an enemy who is squared off against one of your melee guys and they have to make a save every round to avoid damage (2d8+5 at L6) or move. If your Barbarian and Fighter/Wizard are next to each other that means provoking an opportunity attack from someone for sure. And Booming Blade just adds to the fun.

And you can Eldrich Blast away on your subsequent rounds, all without burning spell slots. Cast it behind enemies so you can maneuver around and knock them through it with Repelling Blast for 2d10+10+2d8+5! So much winning.