Letting your party enjoy their wealth & buying magic items

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

I generally don't. When I do, it's because the campaign is ending reasonably soon and those characters won't be present in the next game. I prefer to have mundane money sinks in the style of NWN2's Crossroad Keep.

[the secret fire]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

Removing ye olde magic mart from the game was arguably 5e's best design decision. But then again, everything has its price. It doesn't make sense that magic items would be literally impossible to buy. I just like to make settings where they are so rare and powerful that buying one is beyond the means of the party before tier III.

I should add that I encourage the use of consumables, though, to include potions, scrolls, poison, alchemists fire, and even stuff like dust of disappearing/dryness and sovereign glue.

[Mikal]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

I allow it, though it depends on the location in the game world, their contacts, and their reputation.
Since these are big ticket items, with price tags most people won't ever be able to afford, special brokers are usually needed to help facilitate the transactions, some easy to find, some harder (with rarer equipment potentially) to find.

Also, one can always try and commission a custom item, with the same restrictions above. Generally speaking though, any town with access to any sort of hedge wizard or spell casting clergy/druid will usually have some minor items available for purchase, and maybe a choice item (for them, so probably nothing more than uncommon) for trade or service.

Still, with all of the above being said, players know the key phrase on any transactions is caveat emptor.

I've found that when properly done, purchasing or building a magic weapon can be even more rewarding from a roleplay standpoint then going into "Procedural Dungeon #45 to go slay #Random Encounter 555" to find. But then, I also let most of my encounter areas only have weapons or items based on the Random Item tables, and very rarely seed those locations with party specific items (only if the world would logically have them there, such as say, the home of a Dark Knight wielding the famed and feared Blackrazor...).

[dickerson76]

Removing ye olde magic mart from the game was arguably 5e's best design decision. But then again, everything has its price. It doesn't make sense that magic items would be literally impossible to buy. I just like to make settings where they are so rare and powerful that buying one is beyond the means of the party before tier III.

I should add that I encourage the use of consumables, though, to include potions, scrolls, poison, alchemists fire, and even stuff like dust of disappearing/dryness and sovereign glue.

I've been toying with the idea of consumable magic weapons. Something like "holy oil" or "diamond dust oil" to coat weapons/armor with. It would grant a +1 on to-hit/dmg until either a natural 20 or a natural 1. Or maybe a 1minute duration (bonus action to apply). Haven't figured out a price point yet, or how readily available it should be, though. I'm thinking maybe 2-5 applications available for purchase when going through a town (assuming they've gone through their supply). I don't want it to get to where everyone has it available for every fight. Would also need something similar for non-weapon users.

[the secret fire]

I've been toying with the idea of consumable magic weapons. Something like "holy oil" or "diamond dust oil" to coat weapons/armor with. It would grant a +1 on to-hit/dmg until either a natural 20 or a natural 1. Or maybe a 1minute duration (bonus action to apply). Haven't figured out a price point yet, or how readily available it should be, though. I'm thinking maybe 2-5 applications available for purchase when going through a town (assuming they've gone through their supply). I don't want it to get to where everyone has it available for every fight. Would also need something similar for non-weapon users.

There is already oil of sharpness, so you could just make weaker versions of that item. Making poison more available (through purchase, crafting, harvesting from monsters, or whatever) is also a great way to add some temporary effects to martial combat. Poison can add a lot of variety and tactical depth (bad guys can use it, too), and the only thing the DM really needs to adjust is the price.

[Ryunosuke]

I enjoy the Forgotten Realms world a lot and factions exist as part of players backgrounds than have existing rules for letting them purchase a few magic items based on their ‘renown’ and rank within said groups.

There is also a vague pricing guage that exists for magic items by rarity and I would logically argue that almost any non-unique uncommon magic item/consumable can be found at any average sized town or market with rare being larger places like port nyanzaru in chult (ToA) but anything last only rare would be significantly harder to find than simply going to town for sure.

But buying out +1 weapons and armor and such or even mithril or adamantine gear at bigger cities, especially ones with high adventurer traffic just makes sense.

[Willie the Duck]

Letting your party enjoy their wealth & buying magic items

With a reasoned, unbiased start like that, I thoroughly expect a acrimony and drama-free thread. :smalltongue:


Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

Once you include the quest and a reasonable level of DM-controlled gatekeeping (so no monofocus building a halberd fighter because the player assumes +X halberds will be purchasable when they get to level Y), you are already working to eliminate significant parts of the Magic Mart issue that inspired the creation of this change (-back) in the game.

The goal was not that magic items could never be obtained through use of money, it was that it not be an assumed that treasure would just be another codified metric of character stat&build advancement.

[Jama7301]

I like the idea of meaningful items that level with my players, so I'm working on a system where people can feed gold to their items to select new keywords to add to their item. This way, I can give them an 'iconic' item that they can customize with powers they want. Still in the early planning phase, but I'm thinking I also want to have an option to have the weapon change forms, if they decide that "hey, this magic pennant isn't as cool as a custom wand would be".

Still early in planning, but it's an idea I like a lot.

[krazedkoi]

It depends on the game, but in 5e I've definately placed less of an emphasis on purchasable magic items and more of an emphasis on consumables and minor/flavoured magic items.
Cantriped ammunition is a favourite of my group and x/day low-level spells on objects (a bullseye lantern that can cast Burning Hands 1/day called Hellmouth, a pair of boots that cast Longstrider 1/day named Quickstepper Boots). Once they've hit higher levels I introduced more of the standard fair, but even then nothing like what you'd see in 3e where everyone was geared to the nines.
Having had a few conversations with them, they don't feel like I'm restricting them or limiting their characters because of the lack of magical items. They also enjoy finding creative or thematic uses for the items they do get, often using them for the sake of RP rather than just mechanical efficiency, which makes me a super happy DM :)

[DMThac0]

With a reasoned, unbiased start like that, I thoroughly expect a acrimony and drama-free thread. :smalltongue:

I can't believe the OP even thinks the players can be allowed to use their money for anything, I mean it's literally just a token to show that they're progressing...It's like a physical representation of XP....bah, buying magic items with money...that's ludicrous...:smallfurious:


So, in all seriousness, I think the availability of magic items is purely setting dependent. In my current campaign world; magic is still young, the creation of magical items is still a risky business. The artifacts from the gods and titans in the world are legendary and almost impossible to find. So the players have reached level 5 and they have acquired a grand total of 12 healing potions and 3 spell scrolls. They will be acquiring their first magically endowed weapons and armor at level 6 and there will only be 3 objects. The group has 6 people. I'm trying to maintain the idea of the newly acquired skill to endowing things with magical properties.

In a previous adventure, the players started with a magical token, weapon, or armor that grew with them. As they leveled so did it, and they gained new powers as it evolved. They were also very well stocked with potions and scrolls, and by the time they hit lvl 5 each person had at least 1 other magical item beyond their heirloom.

The only thoughts I have is that magic items, and shops, should fit the setting, and the difficulty of the game should reflect the ease of access to said magical equipment.

[Specter]

Hint: if you do that, make sure it's between sessions. My player used one and a half hour browsing through the book and the list I gave them for that.

[Vogie]

You could also give each of the players a "ritual crafting" skill, then allow them to slowly craft these weapons or items over time during their long rests. Depending on what they're wanting to do, it could take days or weeks. A +1 sword may take a purchased sword, X amount of gold over 2 days... while a bag of devouring would take a bag, 5x the gold over 2 weeks.

If they want things that aren't available for purchase, but could exist in your world, maybe you have them find plans for such items. Not unlike leaving around scrolls for wizards and ritual casters in the core game.

[Tanarii]

Use the xanathar's downtime rules. They work okay. Especially if you add a five day (workweek) each traveling each way the nearest decent city and the local adventuring area for buying & selling magic items.

They're especially nice if you've got multiple players and PCs per player, but give out decent downtime between sessions, 10 days (or two workweeks) or so. That way they can use a different character for a session or two, and their other character can spend 20-30 days of downtime traveling to the city and spending 2-4 workweeks looking for a magic item they want.

[Hastati]

I normally don't allow magic items to be bought, other than healing potions. I like the idea that magic items are somewhat rare and difficult to come by so I'm a bit parsimonious with them. However, you should run the game the way you like. If you want your players to be able to buy magic items, go for it. It's not going to break the game unless you let it.

[CTurbo]

I do allow players to purchase magic items but it's never exactly what they want. This how the party ends up with a Pike, Flail, Trident, Sickle, and Whip lol

[StoicLeaf]

I allow players to purchase the level low level stuff in larger towns (so +1 items, some potions, scrolls up to 3rd level, etc.) without any hassle.

Anything beyond that is either an item they find, or, if they really want to shop for it, rare and expensive.
Particularly items that give players abilities (flight, for example) aren't readily available simply due to the overhead it creates for me as the DM and the inevitable boredom for the player.

[JellyPooga]

I find the entite notion of "Ye Olde Magic Mart" to be incredibly jarring, myself. Name a fantasy film that has a shop for adventurers to go buy some magic armour along with some healing potions on special offer. Name a (non-d&d setting) fantasy book where the protagonist gets his magic sword over a counter. The entire notion of buying magic items just...devalues the entire concept, at least for me. Ok, sure, maybe you might get lucky and happen across a powerful magic item while browsing a junk shop or a dodgy geezer might be able to find just what you want on the black market, maybe, but that should be the exception, not the norm and it's hardly the stuff of legend;

"Hey bro, look; there goes Grondar the Mighty. It's said he's slain dragons by the dozen and saved the city from an Undead invasion single handed"
"Cool! Check out his sword; where'd he get that? It looks awesome sharp!"
"Err...I think he got it from Joe Smith round the corner"
"What? The blacksmiths where we take Nells to get her shoes done?"
"Yeah, that's the one"
"Oh...he didn't find it some ancient tomb, or wrest it from the hands of a powerful warlord, or was gifted it by a divine patron...he just...bought it from Joe?"
"Yup"
"Oh"
"..."
"...did Grondar go on a mighty quest to find the pommel jewel and star-metal to make it? Travel across seas to consult a mage about how to make a magic blade and impart the secrets to Joe? Was Joe divinely inspired to make this unique sword?"
"Nope. Joe has a bunch of 'em. I think he has a special on daggers right now; buy one, get a Bag of Holding half price."
"Oh...what's a Bag of Holding?"
"It's a bag that holds stuff, I guess"
"So...it's a regular bag then"
"Nah, it's a magical bag to go with your magic dagger"
"How much does this stuff cost?"
"It ain't for you and me; thousands of gold crowns."
"What!?! You could buy an estate for that money."
"I know, right. It's amazing Joe still does horseshoes really."

[Spacehamster]

Only thing I don’t like about 5e is that they did away with magic mart, we always play high magic and it’s annoying not to have proper pricing.

[Pelle]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.

[Willie the Duck]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

[EvilAnagram]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.


For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

These posts describe the problem I have with everything being available. If everything is buyable, gold become a means of advancing mechanically rather than a means of advancing socially. I think it's worthwhile to balance them out, having potions for sale and putting a few rare and uncommon items in the various shops of a major city, but otherwise making magic items something you find in the adventure. Mostly, what they find are raw materials that they need to commission a skilled craftsman to make into a magic item.

[Pelle]

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

Agreed, but if you come across an npc with a magic spoon, it only makes sense that you should be able to buy it if the price is right. If making magic items rarer, overall less useful, and pricier, you may still prefer to spend your gold on fun stuff.

[Willie the Duck]

Agreed, but if you come across an npc with a magic spoon, it only makes sense that you should be able to buy it if the price is right. If making magic items rarer, overall less useful, and pricier, you may still prefer to spend your gold on fun stuff.

Which is an in-game event/encounter/adventure. To my mind, it is no different than discovering said magic spoon in a dungeon in the hands of a lich (or orc with pie) and defeating them with combat/deception/negotiation. I have no problem with gold being used in-adventure to solve problems (just like using it to bribe a guard would be), it is the effective conversion of gp into a duplicate xp analogue, thereby disallowing the individual to spend it otherwise (baring universal buy-in).

[Pelle]

Which is an in-game event/encounter/adventure. To my mind, it is no different than discovering said magic spoon in a dungeon in the hands of a lich (or orc with pie) and defeating them with combat/deception/negotiation. I have no problem with gold being used in-adventure to solve problems (just like using it to bribe a guard would be), it is the effective conversion of gp into a duplicate xp analogue, thereby disallowing the individual to spend it otherwise (baring universal buy-in).

Agreed, although as long as magical items exist, it's impossible to exclude them from the economy (unless you introduce some weird metaphysics to justify it).

Even if you make magical items non-guaranteed, really rare, and therefore crazy expensive, you may still have the single player who saves every penny for the rare off-chance of randomly meeting and bribing someone who has a magic spoon that is perfect for his build.

You just have to make the opportunity cost high enough (can't be guaranteed to find specific item or items at particular times or places, can't buy other useful stuff) so that most people will start spending money on other stuff.

[Unoriginal]

In Tomb off Annihilation, the mage Wakanga O'tamu has one shop where he sells scrolls up to second levels and some potions, and he also knows the magic item formulas for +1 blades and +1 shields, for which he's commissioned.

He's one of the Merchant Princes of the ploutocratic Port Nyanzaru, he's richer than the temple of the goddess of money, and he has a monopoly on the magic item trade in the area. Him and his colleague Merchant Princes are rich enough to keep a Sorcerer with 7th or 8th level spells on their payroll.

In Forge of Furry, a smith is utterly legendary for the weapons they produced in the eponymous forge before they were killed, and one of the quest givers is willing to spend thousands on even one of said weapons, yet none of them has powers stronger than a +2 bonus.

Yes, buying magic item is possible, but anyone capable of selling them regularly is rolling in dough one step removed from the adult dragon hoard, if not above.

Though of course it depends of a lot of factors. A Cape of Billowing is awesome, but it's Common, it won't fetch for a ridiculous price unless there is some story or the like making it more important, like a famous crafter or previous owner. But more than anything you have to be careful to make sure you're not buying something stolen from someone who has the means to get it back, and that the item isn't cursed. I tjink the rules in the Xanathar's work for that.

[the secret fire]

Agreed, although as long as magical items exist, it's impossible to exclude them from the economy (unless you introduce some weird metaphysics to justify it).

Even if you make magical items non-guaranteed, really rare, and therefore crazy expensive, you may still have the single player who saves every penny for the rare off-chance of randomly meeting and bribing someone who has a magic spoon that is perfect for his build.

You just have to make the opportunity cost high enough (can't be guaranteed to find specific item or items at particular times or places, can't buy other useful stuff) so that most people will start spending money on other stuff.

My solution to this problem, going back to 3rd edition, has been to have "expendable" magic items (including low-level wands and magical ammunition), masterwork weapons/armor (non-magical +1) and items made out of unusual but mundane materials (adamantium, mithril, etc.) be a regular part of the economy, but...permanent magic items are all imbued with consciousness. Every. Single. One. In my games, you create a permanent magic item by killing someone (or some thing, or many people/things) and putting their life force into a specially prepared object. So a Ring of Spell Storing might have been created when a wicked old wizard murdered his three apprentices in order to increase his own power, or some such. They're not all sentient, but they all have a backstory, and they exert a hold on their owners, be it through dreams, strange urges, or just outright dialogue (the most powerful ones having sentience). Every one is precious, and it takes an act of will to give one up. To use D&D parlance, they are all, to some extent or another, cursed. An archmage might be able to resist the pull and sell something he has acquired, but this would be an exceptionally rare event.

I suppose it is a "weird" metaphysics to set things up in this way, but it makes permanent magic items fantastic, terrifying and mysterious things. It also creates a clear reason why they don't just change hands in the market, while still giving the PCs access to "magical stuff" within an economy that basically makes sense.

[Pex]

Maybe a compromise the game provides for.

Instead of buying magic items players find as part of treasure the formula to make a magic item they'd like. Some materials needed are acquired through adventuring, others can be through purchase - gem dust, rare ink, rare incense. Ignore the official rules and allow for a more reasonable downtime crafting time to move on with the game.

[Tanarii]

I find the entite notion of "Ye Olde Magic Mart" to be incredibly jarring, myself. Name a fantasy film that has a shop for adventurers to go buy some magic armour along with some healing potions on special offer. Name a (non-d&d setting) fantasy book where the protagonist gets his magic sword over a counter. The entire notion of buying magic items just...devalues the entire concept, at least for me. Ok, sure, maybe you might get lucky and happen across a powerful magic item while browsing a junk shop or a dodgy geezer might be able to find just what you want on the black market, maybe, but that should be the exception, not the norm and it's hardly the stuff of legend;
Given the amount of money involved, which could be tens of lbs of gold or more, you'd expect to have to find a wealthy individual / private collector, or extremely high end specialty merchant trader/price. Which is why I like the xanathar's rules (effectively) representing the time to search them out. And also assume it requires at least a small city, if not a major one.

Of course, such an individual might be more interested in a trade than a sale. Allowing you to kill two birds with one stone, 'selling' a magic item at the same time.

Otoh keep in mind the lowest rarity of magic items are worth 100 go or less, and the next rarity 500 go or less. That's around a breastplate for the second rarity, and less than half plate and a lot less than plate. How hard is it for players to buy better armor in your campaigns?

[GlenSmash!]

I prefer a setting where magic items are rare and feel unique. I also don't like +1 magic items. I would rather trade that +1 for an interesting minor property even if it is less useful.

Although even in such a setting, anything is available for the right price. In fact, I can imagine a kind of thief specially dedicated to obtaining such items for the fabulously wealthy and powerful.

Players may want to keep a close watch on such items.

Consumables I'm much more free with.

[coyote_sly]

5e is the first edition I've played beyond tier 1, and it just feels...wrong that this stuff is just flat out not sold. *EVERYTHING* is for sale - if it has value and you don't need it, you sell it.

I can see the Fantasy Costco model - this **** is rare, period. We'll sell what we can find, but no promises it'll be what you actually want or of any real use. And we'll mark it up like crazy and buy back for a pittance, because where else are you going to find this ****?

But just nobody, ever, in the *entire world* wanting gold more than a fan that causes a perpetual breeze, or a pair or boots that's *extra* warm? Nope. Just seems completely glaring that the whole thing is fake, because it MEANS I have to say with a straight face that either no one else has ever FOUND a magic item, ever, or no o e has ever wanted to turn that find into gold. And both just laugh in the face of any kind of suspension of disbelief.

[Unoriginal]

it just feels...wrong that this stuff is just flat out not sold.

As many others have pointed out, "flat out not sold" is not true.

It term of cost, many magic items are cheaper than a normal plate armor.

In term of rarity, you should be able to find magic items to sell, if you search long enough in large settlements. Kind of like collectibles.

And that's not counting the regular NPC interractions that can lead to that kind of trades.

Basically, there is no Wallmart full of supposedly rare baseball cards, but you can find people who sell them.



But just nobody, ever, in the *entire world* wanting gold more than a fan that causes a perpetual breeze, or a pair or boots that's *extra* warm? Nope. Just seems completely glaring that the whole thing is fake, because it MEANS I have to say with a straight face that either no one else has ever FOUND a magic item, ever, or no o e has ever wanted to turn that find into gold. And both just laugh in the face of any kind of suspension of disbelief.

A good thing this is an assumption 5e NEVER had, then.

Several quests in published modules have the PCs in the role of the person who find a magic item then turn that find into gold.

[the secret fire]

5e is the first edition I've played beyond tier 1, and it just feels...wrong that this stuff is just flat out not sold. *EVERYTHING* is for sale - of it has vue and you do t need it, you sell it.

I can see the Fantasy Costco model - this **** is rare, period. We'll sell what we can find, but no promises it'll be what you actually want or of any real use. And we'll mark it up like crazy and buy back for a pittance, because where else are you going to find this ****?

But just nobody, ever, in the *entire world* wanting gold more than a fan that causes a perpetual breeze, or a pair or boots that's *extra* warm? Nope.

Yes, that's the basic problem. Everything has its price.

As a DM, if you want a world that makes sense and one in which magic items aren't simply bought and sold at the corner store, you have to come up with some compelling, overarching reason. 5e has at least done us the favor of removing both magic item price listings and anything resembling a gold-by-level chart so that players no longer have the expectation that magic items are a normal part of the economy. The game leaves these decisions entirely to the DM's discretion, as it should.

[KorvinStarmast]

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way? No. Never have. And I think that's due to what I got used to.

One of the things that has fallen out of general use is the treasure map. The way I like to see money turned into magical treasure/items (beyond the occasional low level spell scroll or a healing potion) is that money is a thing that is used to bribe, or to buy something valuable to trade, for the information needed to get to a valuable treasure (which is usually guarded by either an NPC, a monster, or both).

Mapping, as a core game skill/pursuit, has also died a horrible death, which I think is a contributor to why maps as prizes have waned.
But look at all of those pirate movies and novels; getting the treasure map was a key goal of the story, since the map would lead on to treasure (and sometimes into danger as well).
And then there's the "Romancing the Stone" approach, where one seduces someone who has a treasure map, or otherwise tricks them, and thus procures the map. But what does it cost to set up the seduction, or the con game? Don't just roll a die, role play the whole con. (It's can be a blast).

------------------------

In the original game, table of contents- (Monsters and Treasure)
Magic/Maps Determination Table . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23
On page 23, if you rolled 01-75% (as DM) you consulted the magic items tables. on a 76-00 and you consulted the maps table.
01-60 Treasure Map
61-90 Magic Map
91-00 Magic & Treasure Map

And these led to 3 more tables with specificxs. (A box of gems, for example, could be a huge boon, since at 1 xp per GP some of the characters might level up! )

[Unoriginal]

Yes, that's the basic problem. Everything has its price.

It's not a problem with 5e, though, it never had a "no one will ever sell magic items" assumption.

I think people are kind of assuming that due to going too far on the direction away from "magic items can be be brought everywhere".

The published modules have the PCs or the NPCs sell magic items for gold plenty of times, for starter.

"No magic wallmart" doesn't mean "people would rather die than give you their magic gizmos in exchange of a mountain of shiny money".

The only exception is AL, but that's because they decided it was the way they could track which character had what, and not have people show up with a +3 Holy Avenger they totally purchased with the gold they totally had, promise.

[GlenSmash!]

I think about magic weapons as kind of analogous to nuclear weapons, or at least some lesser but still very heavy military ordnance.

Even in a high magic item setting they still might be heavily regulated by Kingdoms, Magic User organizations, or powerful Trade guilds. But a black market likely exists, with all the risks that a black market entails.

[the secret fire]

It's not a problem with 5e, though, it never had a "no one will ever sell magic items" assumption.

It has no assumption either way, which is good. Obviously DMs are free to be as generous or as miserly as they like with magic item availability and price. This wasn't really the case in 3rd edition (I never played 4th, so I can't say how it was in that game).

For me, the line was crossed in 3rd edition when magic item availability became one of the core assumptions of the game, and "bildz" culture (to include the reliance on specific magic items) became the norm. That was a level of banality too far, and I think the developers recognized it. 5e has rolled that foolishness back, much to the good, but that doesn't mean the DM's job is done. If you want consistency and verisimilitude, you still need to provide the players with an explanation as to why certain things are available at certain prices and other things are not.

[DMThac0]

Alright, let's use a bit of math and business model assumptions.

This is merely a thought project, something that popped into my head.

A Wand of Magic Missiles, 3rd level, that would be considered an uncommon item so that places us squarely in the 500gp mark on the table in the DMG.


When crafting an item progress is made in 25gp increments, so that means it would take 20 days to craft the item.
You can have multiple people crafting the wand as long as they can cast MM, taking a 25gp increment per additional person.
Components for the spell are consumed each day/25gp needed.


Wal-Magic wants to get into the distribution of these wands, but there's a need for product. That means mass producing the wand bases and hiring mages to do the enchantment. So you have to pay the mages a wage, you have to pay for the wands, and you have the 500gp cost of crafting the item.

Let's assume we want to push these out at a decent pace, so we say every 3 days, that's 7 mages. They're going to want a good lifestyle, so 1gp per day isn't too far fetched.

We're up to:

500gp for the enchanting process
5s for the wand
21gp for the 3 days/7mages
521gp 5s cost in total


Now I have a basic idea of how merchandise is marked up by looking at numbers at my workplace. For something like this, a wand for adventuring parties, there's a high chance that there won't be return purchases since death is a real thing. Understanding that; the mark-up will be higher, we'll go with an 80% markup, making the wand's final value around 939g 9s 9c.

According to the DMG an uncommon magical item is worth up to 500g, so having a manufacturer mass produce the items makes them significantly more expensive if they want to turn a profit as a normal business practice would take. Remember, that is just for one wand, imagine an entire enclave of mages working 9-5 jobs grinding out enchanted items of every type....magical items would be significantly more expensive. This would drive the market up, and the spelunkers and treasure hunters would in turn start charging more for the things they've found and risked life and limb for.

Makes for an interesting spin on having magic item shops in every port and town.

[Tanarii]

Uncommon magic items take 2 work weeks and cost 200gp to create. Of course, they also require a formula as a start up cost, assuming you found a seller of one and bought the formula as a rare magic item for 2d10x1000gp. If someone found a formula while adventuring, that's a significant savings. Also exotic materials which must be found by adventuring, so a time sunk (and possibly lives sunk) cost. It also takes 25gp / week to try and find a buyer.

Profit for 2 workweeks, 200 gp, startup cost, adventuring time suck cost, and 25/gp per week finding a seller = base 400 gp * .5/1/1.5 (depending on result of Charisma (Persuasion) check).

Multiple wizards will help you get more on the market faster. But doesn't lower the overall cost/unit.

[Unoriginal]

Alright, let's use a bit of math and business model assumptions.

This is merely a thought project, something that popped into my head.

A Wand of Magic Missiles, 3rd level, that would be considered an uncommon item so that places us squarely in the 500gp mark on the table in the DMG.


When crafting an item progress is made in 25gp increments, so that means it would take 20 days to craft the item.
You can have multiple people crafting the wand as long as they can cast MM, taking a 25gp increment per additional person.
Components for the spell are consumed each day/25gp needed.




That is not how crafting magic items work in 5e. You do not need to be a caster to craft a wand, you can't make a "3rd level" wand, and crafting an uncommon magic item would take two weeks to do alone, cost 200gp to craft, and require both a Rare formula and ingredients that'd demand an adventure involving a creature of CR 4 to 8.



Wal-Magic wants to get into the distribution of these wands, but there's a need for product. That means mass producing the wand bases and hiring mages to do the enchantment.

Again, not how it works in 5e.



Let's assume we want to push these out at a decent pace, so we say every 3 days, that's 7 mages. They're going to want a good lifestyle, so 1gp per day isn't too far fetched.


It is EXTREMELY far fetched. One gp a day isn't even a good lifestyle, and a mage can ask for 50gp for the casting of one lvl 1 spell. They're not going to work for you for so little, even if they did know the formula for such a wand.




Makes for an interesting spin on having magic item shops in every port and town.

People tried that, it's called 3.X.

[DMThac0]

That is not how crafting magic items work in 5e. One gp a day isn't even a good lifestyle. etc.


All my information was taken from the 5e DMG, how is it not the way it works in 5e? Not trying to be antagonistic, I want to know how I made an error.

[StoicLeaf]

From a meta point of view, I think the magic item crafting is intended to be a drag and not insanely profitable because D&d is supposed to be about role playing an adventurer and not playing Spreadsheets: the spreadening.

[Unoriginal]

All my information was taken from the 5e DMG, how is it not the way it works in 5e? Not trying to be antagonistic, I want to know how I made an error.

The specific rules to craft magic items are in the Xanathar's, but you also ignored a lot of the rules related to crafting magic items, spellcasting as service, and living expenses from the PHB.

[DMThac0]

The specific rules to craft magic items are in the Xanathar's, but you also ignored a lot of the rules related to crafting magic items, spellcasting as service, and living expenses from the PHB.

PHB
The information is on crafting mundane items, not magical. page 187
The lifestyle expenses table is listing 1gp/day as a modest lifestyle. page 157
Spellcasting as a service means knowing the appropriate spells to provide the service. page 187/188

DMG
The character must have the formula to craft the item. page 128
The character must be a spell caster, have the spell slots, and know the spells which the item can cast. page 128
Uncommon item costs 500gp to craft. page 129
Time to craft and assistance in crafting. page 129
Reference to lifestyle expenses. page 129

Xanthar's
I do not own the Xanthar's supplement.
I am not saying that Xanthar's is wrong, it provides a different approach to magical item crafting.
Supplemental material came after the core books, as such "alternative" would fit better than "specific", in my opinion.


I chose to use the DMG because it is much more probable that a person will have that before looking into supplemental material. I am simply trying to point out that what I provided in my project was not wrong and it does hold true to 5e material.

[Fey]

I find the entite notion of "Ye Olde Magic Mart" to be incredibly jarring, myself. Name a fantasy film that has a shop for adventurers to go buy some magic armour along with some healing potions on special offer. Name a (non-d&d setting) fantasy book where the protagonist gets his magic sword over a counter. The entire notion of buying magic items just...devalues the entire concept, at least for me. Ok, sure, maybe you might get lucky and happen across a powerful magic item while browsing a junk shop or a dodgy geezer might be able to find just what you want on the black market, maybe, but that should be the exception, not the norm and it's hardly the stuff of legend;

"Hey bro, look; there goes Grondar the Mighty. It's said he's slain dragons by the dozen and saved the city from an Undead invasion single handed"
"Cool! Check out his sword; where'd he get that? It looks awesome sharp!"
"Err...I think he got it from Joe Smith round the corner"
"What? The blacksmiths where we take Nells to get her shoes done?"
"Yeah, that's the one"
"Oh...he didn't find it some ancient tomb, or wrest it from the hands of a powerful warlord, or was gifted it by a divine patron...he just...bought it from Joe?"
"Yup"
"Oh"
"..."
"...did Grondar go on a mighty quest to find the pommel jewel and star-metal to make it? Travel across seas to consult a mage about how to make a magic blade and impart the secrets to Joe? Was Joe divinely inspired to make this unique sword?"
"Nope. Joe has a bunch of 'em. I think he has a special on daggers right now; buy one, get a Bag of Holding half price."
"Oh...what's a Bag of Holding?"
"It's a bag that holds stuff, I guess"
"So...it's a regular bag then"
"Nah, it's a magical bag to go with your magic dagger"
"How much does this stuff cost?"
"It ain't for you and me; thousands of gold crowns."
"What!?! You could buy an estate for that money."
"I know, right. It's amazing Joe still does horseshoes really."

Harry Potter. Diagon Alley. All the wands and spellbooks and magic items you could want, and even magic candy that comes to life.

5e is more based on a Lord of the Rings concept where that magic sword you found after slaying a troll is supposed to be a rare and precious treasure, but settings where magic is everywhere and can be bought and sold do exist.

[Unoriginal]

I chose to use the DMG because it is much more probable that a person will have that before looking into supplemental material. I am simply trying to point out that what I provided in my project was not wrong and it does hold true to 5e material.

Yet you are ignoring half of the things you've quoted


PHB
The information is on crafting mundane items, not magical. page 187.

It also makes clear that the "modest lifestyle for free" is what you maintain while crafting yourself, not the salary you'd have to pay a craftsman .



The lifestyle expenses table is listing 1gp/day as a modest lifestyle. page 157

Yes, and "modest" doesn't mean "good". Even a Wizard Apprentice is going to demand more than that to work for you.



Spellcasting as a service means knowing the appropriate spells to provide the service. page 187/188.

Indeed, and you've ignored it. "As a rule, the higher the level of the desired spell, the harder it is to find someone who can cast il and the more it costs. Hiring someone to cast a relatively common spell of 1st or 2nd level, such as cure wounds or identify, is easy enough in a city or town, and might cost 10 to 50 gold pieces (plus the cost of any expensive material components)."

Even with a minimum of 10 gold per spell slots used (which would be quite cheap for mages), it's quite a lot more than 1gp a day.



The character must have the formula to craft the item. page 128.

Which you've not taken into account for your business model.



The character must be a spell caster, have the spell slots, and know the spells which the item can cast. page 128
Uncommon item costs 500gp to craft. page 129
Time to craft and assistance in crafting. page 129

This, I grant you, are the first magic item crafting rules, and I admit I was wrong, the rules in the Xanathar's don't inherently make them obsolete.


Reference to lifestyle expenses. page 129

Again, what's described here is what characters get when crafting a magic item for themselves. Hiring people to do it is going to be much more costly.

[DeadMech]

I think Willie the Duck hit it on the head how I feel about it. Bit mixed. It does not make any sense to me to have an economy in a world where magic items exist but can't be traded for. On the other hand turning gold into a secondary advancement metric prevents us from using it as anything but limiting the fun things we can do with it.

I like spending gold on roleplaying. Painting heraldry on my knight's shield, getting a fancy scabbard, buying muffins and pastries, sprucing up home with neat things like music boxes or clockwork solarsystems...planar models?... fancy clothes. But when that's being balanced against filling out spellbooks, back up spellbook, cloaks of protection to keep the character I love alive and functional, and the other hideously expensive trinkets that give mechanical benefits to combat in a game that places allot of emphasis on combat... well frivolous fun things take a backseat. And I'm not really sure how to fix that.

I've never met a powergamer whose set of magic items or who's system mastery made other people enjoy the game less. But I've seen players miserable with how poorly their character perform compared to just... base standard. I've been in those shoes far too often as well in 5e. Everytime a combat involves an enemy with a ranged paralyzation effect my character has spent 3/4ths of the fight on the floor frozen solid. With one exception where my character was the last conscious on the field and where any one of the multiple saves if failed would have ended the campaign in a TPK. The one enemy with a possession effect turned my character into an active detriment to the party for 3/4ths of the battle. About half of the battles involving anything with a ranged attack has knocked me out. Sitting at the table not playing isn't fun. Buying a cloak of protection doesn't make me immune to any of those things, the bonus is actually pretty marginal but since I bought it I've been feeling better about the campaign. Given how fragile the party is I'd kinda like to see them all pick up some cloaks of protection really. Might have spared the rogue from getting aged when we had absolutely zero ability to un-age him and zero warning that it was a possibility until it already happened. Or the time we walked into a undead infested forest and had to roll madness saves which half of us failed resulting in us spending ten minutes completely helpless wasn't much fun either. Not having any idea if it was going to be a recurring problem or not didn't help.

People say all the time here that 5e does magic items right and that they aren't needed to have capable characters. Everything I have experienced has proven this to be false. Sometimes you need a magic item to fill in a capability gap. Sometimes you need them to help you pass saves so you aren't sitting at the table twiddling your thumbs. The horizon walker ranger in my party wanted a pet and was throwing herself at every bunny, wolf, and deer that cross the road. Now she bought a tan bag of tricks and was incredibly happy to pull a tiger out of it. I expect less bothering of the local fauna as a result.

People complain magic items are boring if they are easy to get. I disagree. I can get excited about naming a non-magical short sword my wizard max damage crit to behead an already dead troll. I think I'm capable of being excited about a +1 sword that might actually deserve a name and actually confers a mechanical benefit. I've played the golf bag melee guy in 3.5. I loved collecting every weapon I could get my hands on. Masterwork rapier of elven design. Awesome. It'll replace the regular short sword I bought at character generation to have a piercing weapon. It'll be useless eventually? So what? I'll donate it to my characters church, or I'll commission a scabbard/box/backpack and carry around dozens of them and hand them out like candy the next time a town is about to be attacked by an orc army so that the locals can defend themselves if something slips past the party defending it.

The whining about magic-marts? Who's actually ever seen one? I've never seen a place that stocks anything and everything someone with a cartload of gold could want. Every game I've seen requires you to go travel a week to a major trade hub and requires a day of exploring ... magic-mom and pop shops... until you maybe find someone who can sell your ranger a +1 bow. In a game I run they don't even stock the item. You commission it's construction. Maybe if you get into the City of Brass or some other planar metropolis they have high end stuff just sitting around waiting to be sold to whoever walks in the door. I've never been to the City of Brass, I hear it's nice, you know, if you don't get enslaved by Efreeti in the process.

I don't think I've ever played a character who was dumb and trusting enough to just pay someone upfront for a map to a place that might contain an item they wanted. Who's to say this npc isn't just sending me on a wild goose chase and running off with the cash. Or worse sending us off into a trap. Are found magic items more memorable than bought magic items anyway? Maybe. If you do optional dungeons and side quests better than you do npc's. But when a sizable amount of the time my character is literally unplayable because I don't have enough magic buffing my saves (Which paralyzation, possession, and unconsciousness do because you literally can not do anything) the last thing I want to do is go travel a week through the wilderness, fighting random encounters the whole way, exploring a dungeon, fighting encounters the whole way just to get that item.

What will make an item memorable to me? Making me commission it so that I get to tell the crafter how I want it to look and function so that it fits my character's aesthetic and tactics. Or make me donate the amount of gold over time to an organization they belong to who will then reward the character's good service with the item. Probably decorated with that organization's aesthetic and being a material reminder of my character's loyalty to their organization and their organization's respect for my character. Sure means more to me than a dusty old ridiculous looking sword that I'm choosing between keeping because it's technically more functional what I already have or selling at a steep discount because I'm a polearm master with no use at all for it. Or you know.. some people's apparent preference of absolutely nothing but what you walked in with.

[Amdy_vill]

depends on the setting. we are playing in heavily played in krynn. we also are playing a 1-20 game so those are the big variables setting and levels planed. we did not get the ability to buy magic items till 10th level. we did find magic items in loot and every now and then a shop had one magic item and we could dump all our money into getting it but we were far into our game before magic items became purchasable

[KorvinStarmast]

From a meta point of view, I think the magic item crafting is intended to be a drag and not insanely profitable because D&d is supposed to be about role playing an adventurer and not playing Spreadsheets: the spreadening. That got a grin out of me. :smallcool::smallcool:


I think Willie the Duck hit it on the head how I feel about it. Bit mixed. It does not make any sense to me to have an economy in a world where magic items exist but can't be traded for. There are only so many original Van Gogh's in the world. Treat magic items like very rare works of art. (Which to a certain extent, they are)


The horizon walker ranger in my party wanted a pet and was throwing herself at every bunny, wolf, and deer that cross the road. Now she bought a tan bag of tricks and was incredibly happy to pull a tiger out of it. I expect less bothering of the local fauna as a result. low powered magic item, high powered RP fun. Goodness. :smallsmile:

I don't think I've ever played a character who was dumb and trusting enough to just pay someone upfront for a map to a place that might contain an item they wanted. Sounds to me like you have a "DM versus Player" problem; not sure if it's you or your DM's.

What will make an item memorable to me? Making me commission it so that I get to tell the crafter how I want it to look and function so that it fits my character's aesthetic and tactics. Or make me donate the amount of gold over time to an organization they belong to who will then reward the character's good service with the item. Probably decorated with that organization's aesthetic and being a material reminder of my character's loyalty to their organization and their organization's respect for my character. I like your approach on this.

[Amdy_vill]

I prefer a setting where magic items are rare and feel unique. I also don't like +1 magic items. I would rather trade that +1 for an interesting minor property even if it is less useful.

Although even in such a setting, anything is available for the right price. In fact, I can imagine a kind of thief specially dedicated to obtaining such items for the fabulously wealthy and powerful.

Players may want to keep a close watch on such items.

Consumables I'm much more free with.

he is right usually the other powers of the item are what players go for not the +1, +2, or +3. the other powers are the ones that change how they play after having the item

[DMThac0]

Unoriginal's points

Modest lifestyle, I chose to think of it like working for a company and making minimum wage. You're correct that it would most likely cause an uproar and the Wizard's Union would come crashing in and use their exorbitant power to renegotiate their contracts. I just wanted to keep the numbers simple, seeing the jump from 500 to 940 provides an understanding of inflated prices just as well as choosing a higher wage providing a higher end result. The "...for free" part doesn't affect this, so I never brought it up outside of referencing it to find a starting point for wage.

I did ignore the part about how much a spell slot could cost, you're right. If a peasant approaches a mage and asks the mage to cast a spell, the mage asks for 30g for the singular service. If the mage is looking for work he must find an employer and the employer offers the stable wage of 1gp/day. You're correct that it doesn't make an equal earning. Instead it provides a stable income rather than possibly only sporadic income. I chose to keep the numbers small and simple.

Must have the formula. It would be a rather short endeavor for a business owner to hire people to craft something that they didn't have the plans for. Sure you could have an R&D department which tries to create these things, but then when they find the answer, they write it down and then you have the formula. You could have adventurers out hunting for the lost parchments, then you'd have the formula. You could contact mages to acquire the formula, then it would be on hand. I chose to use an inference here, the information should have led the reader to assume that the formula was accessible.

With all this, I'll draw it to a close. You've provided a lot of "you missed" and "you ignored" comments, I hope you understand now that I just threw this together for a quick and simple visual. I was not trying to be accurate to the copper, simply give an idea of how it might look as a business model. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond. I wish you the best in your adventures, both in life and in game.

[Angelalex242]

he is right usually the other powers of the item are what players go for not the +1, +2, or +3. the other powers are the ones that change how they play after having the item

Not necessarily. Boring old +3 full plate and +3 shields might be boring...but ya know what else they don't have? Attunement needs.

You get 3 fancy things, that take attunement, and whatever else you can find/buy that doesn't.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Must have the formula. It would be a rather short endeavor for a business owner to hire people to craft something that they didn't have the plans for. Sure you could have an R&D department which tries to create these things, but then when they find the answer, they write it down and then you have the formula. You could have adventurers out hunting for the lost parchments, then you'd have the formula. You could contact mages to acquire the formula, then it would be on hand. I chose to use an inference here, the information should have led the reader to assume that the formula was accessible.


But then you also need the item component (requiring an adventure of ~level 5 for an uncommon item) per item. And these aren't things that are common (duh). Including the expenses of the adventuring teams (including risk) will double or triple (at best) your costs. And that also dramatically reduces the number you can make.

So no, in this edition, RAW mass-production of magic items is limited at best. And that's by design, so that adventurers have to go adventuring for upgrades. Finding an item to purchase should be an adventure, possibly involving trading a favor (go clear out that castle for me!) for an item.

[Unoriginal]

Modest lifestyle, I chose to think of it like working for a company and making minimum wage. You're correct that it would most likely cause an uproar and the Wizard's Union would come crashing in and use their exorbitant power to renegotiate their contracts. I just wanted to keep the numbers simple, seeing the jump from 500 to 940 provides an understanding of inflated prices just as well as choosing a higher wage providing a higher end result. The "...for free" part doesn't affect this, so I never brought it up outside of referencing it to find a starting point for wage

I think you're missing the point. Even increasing from 500 to 940 isn't going to make the business viable.

Especially how limited the number of custommers with that kind of money is.




I did ignore the part about how much a spell slot could cost, you're right. If a peasant approaches a mage and asks the mage to cast a spell, the mage asks for 30g for the singular service. If the mage is looking for work he must find an employer and the employer offers the stable wage of 1gp/day. You're correct that it doesn't make an equal earning. Instead it provides a stable income rather than possibly only sporadic income. I chose to keep the numbers small and simple.

...Why would anyone accept to be payed one gp a day, which is half the salary of a skilled hireling, when they make as much money working once per month, and they can work several time by months?

A 1rst level spell slot is worth 10-50 gp. If you went to a mage and said "I want you to use all your 1rst level spell slots to build magic items for me, in exchange of 1 go each day, but I promise you'll have regular work."

You can't say "I choose to keep the numbers small" when keeping them small doesn't make sense.



Must have the formula. It would be a rather short endeavor for a business owner to hire people to craft something that they didn't have the plans for. Sure you could have an R&D department which tries to create these things, but then when they find the answer, they write it down and then you have the formula. You could have adventurers out hunting for the lost parchments, then you'd have the formula. You could contact mages to acquire the formula, then it would be on hand. I chose to use an inference here, the information should have led the reader to assume that the formula was accessible.

Yes, but you forgot that accessing to it was going to have a cost by itself, and that once you've told them the formulas the mages can just leave and do their own wands if they want.

[Baptor]

Removing ye olde magic mart from the game was arguably 5e's best design decision. But then again, everything has its price. It doesn't make sense that magic items would be literally impossible to buy.

I don't forbid the buying of items, but I don't include magic marts. You'd be surprised how easily taking the magic shops out of the game takes away the issue.

I want to buy a magic item.
Ok, what kind?
A magic sword.
OK, just any magic sword?
I dunno, a good one.
What's a "good" magic sword?
I don't know, a +1 sword.
Ok cool, you want to buy a +1 sword. I'm sure someone has one that would rather have money. Where are you going to start?
What do you mean?
Where are you going to start looking for a seller, or are you going to put out an ad in the Gazette?

At this point we either get to go on an adventure to find a magic sword owner who needs money, or they just give up. So far they've given up every time, because 99% of D&D players would rather search a dungeon for a magic sword than play the exciting game of the Fantasy equivalent of the high art trade.

[Crushgrip]

a lot of great comments here! It's your game so whatever you feel is best will probably work. One thing I like to try and do is let the players use the gold they have "earned" in as many ways as possible to enhance the game play. As others above have suggested, they like to buy fine clothes or trinkets or art and (as the DM) I try to get the feel for what each player would like and then make suggestions or create situations for them to use their gold. Personally, I like the idea of the players being able to purchase some magical items but only in specific locations. The current game I am running is in the Forgotten Realms where the players have just heard of a (legit) magical item shop located in Waterdeep. As magic shops are very rare in my campaign, this one caters to the rich & famous and requires a special token for entrance. The tokens are hard to come by and (at a minimum) cost 500 gold...and thats just to get in the door. I have used a random magic shop generator to determine what items are available and it will change every week. I have also used the "sane magic item prices" that i found for 5e. On top of that, I limit the exposure/time the party has to access the shop based on where the campaign takes them. Essentially, I have made the items cost prohibitive but still give them limited access so that they do have something to possibly "customize" what items their character has.

[DaveOfTheDead]

I'm on the fence. I don't want to always be in control of which items my players get. Like, if the fighter wants a flaming sword, I'm going to let him seek one out. Maybe a caravan saw one get passed around, maybe the blacksmith knows a guy who does some enchanting. What I like to do is add in a time period in which they have to wait. This time period includes getting the necessary materials, prepping the enchantment, doing the actual enchantment, and making sure that it worked as promised. Usually a few days or a week. I'll also allow them to pay half now and half when they get it back. That way they can get some more necessary gold if needed.

I never do a "I buy this super weapon" "OK gold plz" interaction.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Had this debate recently in a shared campaign about a dozen or so of us are playing in, and, as each session can feature a different DM and a different group of PCs, it's not like you have the usual dynamics of "you got the sword last time, so I get the ring"; without the common history of a group it's hard to figure out who has a valid claim to what. There was some discussion about just letting people buy whatever magic items they want, but the main problem with that is there are certain items that characters will just logically want; Gauntlets of Ogre Power are Uncommon items, and for a relatively minimal amount of money, any STR-based character can have an instant 19 Strength and start bashing the heck out of everything.

Basically, my personal plan is to roll for magic items ahead of time, and randomize what's at a shop. "You walk into the finest shop in the city, and, through the glories of randomization, they have items A, B, C, and D, for X gp each". In a world where magic is even vaguely common, there will clearly be items for sale somewhere, but randomizing it helps keep people from optimizing the heck out of their characters at every opportunity and makes it feel a bit more valid to me as a way to both provide a way to spend hard-earned gold on something magical, along with still keeping it interesting.

[Akolyte01]

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

That is an excellent point. Changed my mind on the matter.

[Willie the Duck]

That is an excellent point. Changed my mind on the matter.

Neat! Didn't know if that ever happened online anymore. :smallbiggrin:

[Tanarii]

...Why would anyone accept to be payed one gp a day, which is half the salary of a skilled hireling, when they make as much money working once per month, and they can work several time by months?

A 1rst level spell slot is worth 10-50 gp. If you went to a mage and said "I want you to use all your 1rst level spell slots to build magic items for me, in exchange of 1 go each day, but I promise you'll have regular work."

You can't say "I choose to keep the numbers small" when keeping them small doesn't make sense.If demand is for less than one 1st level spell (for 10-50gp) every 10-50 days per caster trying to sell their spells, it does make sense.