Creating The Portable Hole (inn)

[Idaisi]

Mission Statement: To create an extremely safe sanctuary which can be accessed from anywhere, by specified individuals.

Details: My goal is to create a place where friends, colleagues, and other like-minded people can gather, relax, and engage in down-time activity with (reasonable) assurance of safety and privacy. I want it to be easily accessible from a number of locations, such as a portal in major cities, or something to that effect. As a lesser objective, I want to be able to “screen” people for entry so that only those with no ill will are permitted, but otherwise I want it to be as easy as possible for people to come and go. If anyone has played DDO, imagine The Portable Hole, the inn you had to teleport to, only with upped security and amenities. I can furnish it after the fact, but if this comes into play, I’m currently planning for a tavern/inn and a library.

Spells: I’ve gone over most of the spells in 5e that I think could pertain to this project, but none of them seem to accomplish the permanent space issues. Here are the ones I think could be useful, or inspiration for homebrew options:


Creation:
• Demiplane: Pretty good spell, possibly the best I’ve found for 5e for this purpose. The main issue is the size; a 30-foot cube is a little small for my tastes.
• Wish: This spell could theoretically be used to mimic the effects of other spells, even ones I couldn’t normally access. Useful if I need a spell from a class’ spell list to which I don’t have access. The non-spell-duplicating uses of Wish seem too steep a price for me.
• Magnificent Mansion: This seems like a great option to build a structure once I have a good space to build in. It can't be made permanent, but maybe a modified version can be.
Bonus: Food/drink for up to 100 people.
• Mighty Fortress: Another good spell to create the structure once a space is found.
Bonus: Food/drink for up to 100 people, each day. Can be made permanent.

Entry:
• Plane Shift: Could take you right to my room if I made a sigil sequence.
• Teleportation Circle: Could be a cheaper method of entry than with Demiplane. The shortcoming of this spell is that the caster must be on the same plane as the destination, which kinda rules out extra-dimensional spaces.
• Gate: A more expensive method to get you there. If I did manage to create my own demiplane or extra-dimensional space, one might read this spell as allowing me to act as the owner of said plane and prevent whomever I wish from casting the spell. Questionable reading...

Protection:
• Guards and Wards: Could be useful to guard the area against intruders. I think this would be a low-level protection, as it seems easy enough to bypass.
Bonus: Can be made permanent
• Forbiddance: This could be used to protect an area from being entered by magical means. I was thinking I could put this around my place, and then have a location just outside its boundaries that act as an entrance. This entrance area could then provide me the means to “screen” people before letting them enter.
Bonus: Can be made permanent
• Antimagic Field: Well, the effects of this spell could be used for obvious security... the problem is its target is “Self”, so having it protect an area instead seems unlikely. Also lacks the ability to be made permanent. The main reason I listed this spell is for reference for effects such as nullifying charm and other spells which could be used to create an unwilling attacker on my place.
• Mind Blank: Could be used to protect from mind-controlled creatures, and also to keep out scrying effects.

As you can see, my main issue is actually creating a good space of my own that’s large enough. So this is why I’ve come to you all. My DM is open to letting me create my own spells if needed, and we’ve already come up with a spell creation process. I just want to make sure whatever we make is fair and balanced in terms of 5e. Maybe this means a modernization of a previous official spell (I seem to recall 3.5 having tons more options), or a homebrew spell.

I'm hoping for discussion about the spells above, spells I may have missed, homebrew options, or other options I may have missed.

Thanks in advance, everyone! Ideas?

[JackPhoenix]

All the listed options pretty much limit it to high-level characters. How about linking entry to a magic item, for added security keyed to specific individual by the owner of the establishment?

[Deox]

I think some value could be had by combining the two spells Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Mighty Fortress.

Perhaps start with Mighty Fortress, ensuring the spell is cast once every 7 days to make the fortress permanent, then have some ways to make Magnificent Mansion or Demiplane used as "secure" or "VIP" areas?

[Unoriginal]

Mission Statement: To create an extremely safe sanctuary which can be accessed from anywhere, by specified individuals.

Details: My goal is to create a place where friends, colleagues, and other like-minded people can gather, relax, and engage in down-time activity with (reasonable) assurance of safety and privacy. I want it to be easily accessible from a number of locations, such as a portal in major cities, or something to that effect. As a lesser objective, I want to be able to “screen” people for entry so that only those with no ill will are permitted, but otherwise I want it to be as easy as possible for people to come and go. If anyone has played DDO, imagine The Portable Hole, the inn you had to teleport to, only with upped security and amenities. I can furnish it after the fact, but if this comes into play, I’m currently planning for a tavern/inn and a library.

Spells: I’ve gone over most of the spells in 5e that I think could pertain to this project, but none of them seem to accomplish the permanent space issues. Here are the ones I think could be useful, or inspiration for homebrew options:[...]

As you can see, my main issue is actually creating a good space of my own that’s large enough. So this is why I’ve come to you all. My DM is open to letting me create my own spells if needed, and we’ve already come up with a spell creation process. I just want to make sure whatever we make is fair and balanced in terms of 5e. Maybe this means a modernization of a previous official spell (I seem to recall 3.5 having tons more options), or a homebrew spell.

I'm hoping for discussion about the spells above, spells I may have missed, homebrew options, or other options I may have missed.

Thanks in advance, everyone! Ideas?

It sounds like it'd be easier to just adapt the Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion spell, altered to your specific inn design, and one of the spell's effect would be to select a number of person who can get in the inn, and who are ejected if you remove their authorization.

[strangebloke]

The only way I know of to get unlimited space is this:
https://open5e.com/equipment/magic-items/mirror-of-life-trapping.html

And that's rather foggy.

Going to second the mansion. Bonus points for having a built-in door, staff, and food.

[Idaisi]

All the listed options pretty much limit it to high-level characters. How about linking entry to a magic item, for added security keyed to specific individual by the owner of the establishment?
Oh yes, you are absolutely correct. I will have to have a means of letting lower-level players get in. That's very important to my character, actually, as it's probably going to be lower-level creatures who will benefit the most from what I'm doing.

Teleportation Circle can do this if I make the circle permanent, but it can't travel to other planes, which kind of limits its use for me. I think I will either do as you suggest, and create a magic item, or create my own spell like Teleportation Circle, but higher level, or with an additional cost, so I can justify letting it move to another plane.


I think some value could be had by combining the two spells Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Mighty Fortress.

Perhaps start with Mighty Fortress, ensuring the spell is cast once every 7 days to make the fortress permanent, then have some ways to make Magnificent Mansion or Demiplane used as "secure" or "VIP" areas?

It sounds like it'd be easier to just adapt the Mordenkainen's Magnificient Mansion spell, altered to your specific inn design, and one of the spell's effect would be to select a number of person who can get in the inn, and who are ejected if you remove their authorization.
Yes, I like these ideas. I didn't know about Mighty Fortress, thank you! I've added them to the original post. So it seems that creating my own spell is the likely way to go. I'm okay with this, if it's necessary.

What do you think would happen if I cast, say, Magnificent Mansion inside the limited space of a Demiplane? Would the mansion extend outside the demiplane, or would the spell simply fail? I feel like I need a bigger demiplane. Maybe I can modify Demiplane to give it one of those "cast at a higher level" features. Then I just need to figure out how much more this will cost to cast.


The only way I know of to get unlimited space is this:
[...]

And that's rather foggy.

Going to second the mansion. Bonus points for having a built-in door, staff, and food.
"Rather foggy" haha I see what you did there. This is a homebrew item, is it not? At any rate, it's a nice stage to be set for such an item that could be molded to my tastes.

[strangebloke]

What do you think would happen if I cast, say, Magnificent Mansion inside the limited space of a Demiplane? Would the mansion extend outside the demiplane, or would the spell simply fail? I feel like I need a bigger demiplane. Maybe I can modify Demiplane to give it one of those "cast at a higher level" features. Then I just need to figure out how much more this will cost to cast.


"Rather foggy" haha I see what you did there. This is a homebrew item, is it not? At any rate, it's a nice stage to be set for such an item that could be molded to my tastes.

A door would be created inside of the demiplane. You'd have to get into the demiplane to use the door, which kind of defeats the point of the door in the first place.

That item is not homebrew. The item can only allow one person into each cell at a time, however, regular planar travel can let people go and come as they please.

[Quoxis]

What about multiple castings of the demiplane spell to create multiple 30x30x30ft rooms (with each casting you can either link to the same demiplane or create a new one)?
Then set permanent gates between the individual rooms to make them accessible - what feels like walking from one room into another is nothing but transdimensional travel. It’s not a gigantic mead hall or sky high ball room, but for an inn i presume having an indefinite amount of big rooms would suffice, as long as they’re all connected to the barkeep‘s plane.

You can either make a permanent gate to the first room or - more secure as it’s only accessible for high-ish level casters - just create a permanent teleportation circle there and „attune“ forked metal rods (which the plane shift spell requires) to give to whoever you deem worthy of entrance.

[Idaisi]

A door would be created inside of the demiplane. You'd have to get into the demiplane to use the door, which kind of defeats the point of the door in the first place.
I suppose the demiplane would serve as an airlock of sorts, to the actual mansion. A place where people can teleport into, to access the single door.


That item is not homebrew. The item can only allow one person into each cell at a time, however, regular planar travel can let people go and come as they please.
My bad, I didn't realize it was an official item. Well this helps me set precedent for any items I may make, so thank you.


What about multiple castings of the demiplane spell to create multiple 30x30x30ft rooms (with each casting you can either link to the same demiplane or create a new one)?
Then set permanent gates between the individual rooms to make them accessible - what feels like walking from one room into another is nothing but transdimensional travel. It’s not a gigantic mead hall or sky high ball room, but for an inn i presume having an indefinite amount of big rooms would suffice, as long as they’re all connected to the barkeep‘s plane.
A 30x30 foot room would be a little cramped for a tavern, I think. That's about the size of an average living room and a small bar, wouldn't you think? It could work in a pinch, I was hoping for something a little bigger. The immersion would also kinda be broken, I think, with the portals. You couldn't see or shout into the other room, for example. Then the question arises as to what spell would create the portal?

[Quoxis]

A 30x30 foot room would be a little cramped for a tavern, I think. That's about the size of an average living room and a small bar, wouldn't you think? It could work in a pinch, I was hoping for something a little bigger. The immersion would also kinda be broken, I think, with the portals. You couldn't see or shout into the other room, for example. Then the question arises as to what spell would create the portal?

Again: multiple. Rooms. Connected.
One tap room, ten rooms with large tables and wenches serving between them.
The gate spell also creates gates of up to 20 feet width, and anything that enters the gate „is instantly transported to the other plane, appearing in the unoccupied space nearest to the portal“ - whether that works for sound and light is up to you(r GM), but i don’t see why not.
I overread the pesky time limit of one minute of the gate spell though, probably getting distracted by your post stating it could be made permanent. If you have a way to do that, please let me know - without permanent gates, my idea kinda falls flat, i‘ll admit it.

[Idaisi]

anything that enters the gate „is instantly transported to the other plane, appearing in the unoccupied space nearest to the portal“ - whether that works for sound and light is up to you(r GM), but i don’t see why not.
I suppose one interpretation could be that light and sound travel through the gate and exit in the same exact location and trajectory relative to how they entered. But it mentions that things passing through appear in the nearest unoccupied space, which I think would cause all kinds of havoc on the transparent portal we're painting here.


I overread the pesky time limit of one minute of the gate spell though, probably getting distracted by your post stating it could be made permanent. If you have a way to do that, please let me know - without permanent gates, my idea kinda falls flat, i‘ll admit it. Thank you for pointing out my error. The permanent statement was meant for the spell below Gate, that was my mistake. But this doesn't mean I couldn't create my own spell based on Gate, that's always an acceptable solution if we can't find an existing way.

[Quoxis]

I suppose one interpretation could be that light and sound travel through the gate and exit in the same exact location and trajectory relative to how they entered. But it mentions that things passing through appear in the nearest unoccupied space, which I think would cause all kinds of havoc on the transparent portal we're painting here.

Thank you for pointing out my error. The permanent statement was meant for the spell below Gate, that was my mistake. But this doesn't mean I couldn't create my own spell based on Gate, that's always an acceptable solution if we can't find an existing way.

„I just wish there was a permanent gate spell i could learn...“

[Idaisi]

„I just wish there was a permanent gate spell i could learn...“
How do you do this without incurring the 33% chance of never being able to cast Wish again - which was, as I mentioned, too steep a price for this project?

[Vogie]

This already exists, mostly... it's called Rod of Security (https://open5e.com/equipment/magic-items/rod-of-security.html?highlight=rod%20security).

Extraplaner - check
Cheery Tavern - check
holds up to 200 people - double check

You could certainly alter it slightly, so that the oversize demiplane that the rod connects to is permanently in place, and contains a permanent plane-shift-esque teleportation circle - so after Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, Arcana Clerics, Horizon Walkers, & Dream Druids go there, they can hand off the rod to someone else. The 200 day/creature limit could still exist, just as a limit for those who use the rods to go there.

[Griswold]

The Imprisonment spell can be used to create a demiplane, which is custom-built to your specifications:


Hedged Prison. The spell transports the target into a tiny demiplane that is warded against teleportation and planar travel. The demiplane can be a labyrinth, a cage, a tower, or any similar confined structure or area of your choice.

The special component for this version of the spell is a miniature representation of the prison made from jade.


The spell specifies that the demiplane is "tiny" but I imagine that the labyrinth or tower could be quite large by Inn standards. Heck, even a few miles in diameter would be tiny when compared with a demiplane the size of Ravenloft.

[Samayu]

Can you build a physical inn in a place that is inaccessible except by magical means? Then you don't have to worry about creating this magical space, only getting there.

Give people keys - enchant items with a teleport that only takes the user to the entryway of the inn. Not sure how you'd get them back home...

[danpit2991]

you said your dm will let you use homebrew spells so just use demiplane but change the size of it to however big you wish it to be

then do the same with mansion of fortress spell just adjust what is made to suit your needs

as far as access goes maybe do a demi plane inside a demi plane to act as an airlock or you could give tokens like a coin or a medallion that allows people to teleport to the inn and then back to their original location

literaly you can do anything you want with DM fiat because "magic"

or you could have doors appear in front of the people you choose at a set schedule kinda like in that anime Restaurant to Another World ,Isekai Shokudō

[xroads]

A couple other possible spells you might want to consider;

Enlarge/Reduce - Can be cast on any patron that enters. This would allow you to get more out of limited space.
Leomund's Secret Chest - While it is a much too small space, it does offer some of the features you're looking for. And it's a relatively low level spell (at least compared to spells like Demiplane). Perhaps your DM would let your character research a larger variant of this spell at a higher level.

[xroads]

or you could have doors appear in front of the people you choose at a set schedule kinda like in that anime Restaurant to Another World ,Isekai Shokudō

Another possibility could be to take inspiration from "Howl's Moving Castle." The titular castle isn't on another plane of existence. But's it's always moving, which offers a form of safety/security. And there are set portals patrons of the establishment can use to visit the castle, regardless of where it is.

[strangebloke]

Another possibility could be to take inspiration from "Howl's Moving Castle." The titular castle isn't on another plane of existence. But's it's always moving, which offers a form of safety/security. And there are set portals patrons of the establishment can use to visit the castle, regardless of where it is.

The castle in the book actually is on another plane of existence, sort of. The moving part is just one of the portals.

Howl's house is a composite of several different structures in two separate planes.

[Idaisi]

This already exists, mostly... it's called Rod of Security[/URL].

Extraplaner - check
Cheery Tavern - check
holds up to 200 people - double check

You could certainly alter it slightly, so that the oversize demiplane that the rod connects to is permanently in place, and contains a permanent plane-shift-esque teleportation circle - so after Bards, Sorcerers, Wizards, Arcana Clerics, Horizon Walkers, & Dream Druids go there, they can hand off the rod to someone else. The 200 day/creature limit could still exist, just as a limit for those who use the rods to go there.
Wow. Just wow! This may be (almost) exactly what I've been searching for. This at the very least provides really great precedent for me to base my custom spell on. I can take out the healing part and add in permanency, or something along these lines. I think this is almost flawless! Thank you so much.


The Imprisonment spell can be used to create a demiplane, which is custom-built to your specifications:



The spell specifies that the demiplane is "tiny" but I imagine that the labyrinth or tower could be quite large by Inn standards. Heck, even a few miles in diameter would be tiny when compared with a demiplane the size of Ravenloft.
Thank you! I think the Hedged Prison version of this could be more-or-less what I'm wanting, if it were re-tooled to be... not a prison heh. I love all the possibilities you guys are coming up with. Thanks!



Can you build a physical inn in a place that is inaccessible except by magical means? Then you don't have to worry about creating this magical space, only getting there.

Give people keys - enchant items with a teleport that only takes the user to the entryway of the inn. Not sure how you'd get them back home...
My original objection to this is that, IMO, most places on the Material Plane would be inherently easier to "break into" than a demiplane. Pocket dimensions also would not be as susceptible to mundane outside forces such as earthquakes. Obviously, I realize that nothing is perfect, and anything can be broken into if the DM wishes it... But I want to make him work for it, if you get my drift. Someone is going to have to REALLY, REALLY want in here.

That being said, there are enough protection spells out there to make a location on the Material Plane quite hard to get into.

The other part of this is the magic mystery of it. A sort of oasis in a void of nothingness seemed really cool to me.


you said your dm will let you use homebrew spells so just use demiplane but change the size of it to however big you wish it to be

then do the same with mansion of fortress spell just adjust what is made to suit your needs

as far as access goes maybe do a demi plane inside a demi plane to act as an airlock or you could give tokens like a coin or a medallion that allows people to teleport to the inn and then back to their original location

literaly you can do anything you want with DM fiat because "magic"

or you could have doors appear in front of the people you choose at a set schedule kinda like in that anime Restaurant to Another World ,Isekai Shokudō
Yeah. Using Demiplane as a basis for a custom spell was the idea I had before making this thread. Mostly what I wanted out of this were other ideas I hadn't thought of, and maybe some spells or items I did not consider. I'm so happy with the results so far.

Also, I need to check out that anime. It sounds wonderful.


Another possibility could be to take inspiration from "Howl's Moving Castle." The titular castle isn't on another plane of existence. But's it's always moving, which offers a form of safety/security. And there are set portals patrons of the establishment can use to visit the castle, regardless of where it is.
It's funny you say this. In a previous campaign, back in 3.5, our "deliciously evil" DM gave us all one wish from a genie. I wrote out this really long and detailed flying ship based on Howl's Moving (Flying) Castle. The door used in the anime was the main draw I had to that castle. I had my character placing doors all over Faerun just like in the movie. Oh, it was amazing! 3.5 had so many spells to use, and the way magic items were crafted, with specific spells referenced in their creation, I found that so much more appealing than the sort of lack of such a system we now have. Oh those were the days.