Reworking the sorcerer for our table

[samuraijaques]

Hey guys,

I have been playing a sorcerer for a couple sessions now and am realizing more and more that literally every other full caster in the game is better than they are for most intents and purposes. The only thing that sorcerers do better than anyone else is make munchkin builds more powerful when they nova and even those builds aren't straight sorcerer. If you aren't specifically trying to do as much damage as you possibly can once a day then they become kind of lackluster in comparison to other primary spellcasters.

Things I've noticed/problems I have
1. 15 spells known at level 20 is insane....ly bad. To the point that it's kind of a joke. In 3.5 it made sense because you could cast whatever spells you wanted and that versatility made up for the breadth of choices. In 5e that's no longer the case, every class does that, better than you.

2. Metamagic is cool but you don't really get to use it. With their limited pool of sorcery points most sorcerers only get to cast a few metamagicked spells per day. It's the one cool class feature they get and they don't even get to utilize it. And don't even get me started on the obvious trap that is converting spell slots into points.

3. No short rest benefit. Sorcerers are the only primary caster with nothing to gain on a short rest. Wizards get recovery, clerics get channel divinity, druids get wildshape, bards get inspiration and sorcerers get nothing.

Now, I recognize that sorcerers aren't bad. They are still a full caster! And that is going to be powerful no matter what. What I am saying is that there is very little reason to pick them over any other caster. Every time I pick up my character sheet my inner munchkin is screaming at me "why the hell aren't you playing a bard?" So my intention is to buff them enough to be on par with the other spellslingers in 5e.

So, I propose 3 changes:
1. Sorcerous origin bonus spells. They did it in an unearthed arcana already and it was an excellent idea. 2 spells added to the list of spells you can learn at levels 1,3,5,7 and 9 from a predetermined list based on your origin with your choice of one of them free. Not only does this patch up the abysmal spell selection of sorcerers it gives the origins more of an identity and gives you a chance to learn some spells that maybe aren't on the sorcerer spell list. 20 spells known is still the lowest of the primary casters but it's less of a joke than 15.

2. Use the spell point mechanic in the DMG and add it to your sorcery points. In 3.5 the sorcerer's main advantage was versatility. With all the classes becoming spontaneous casters the sorcerer's one advantage is gone. Using spell points for sorcerers fixes two problems. It gives sorcerers more versatility than other classes in their spellcasting and it allows them to more effectively use metamagic. More than that though it gives sorcerers an identity other than "the slightly worse wizard with permanent mage armor".

3. Give sorcerers something akin to the wizard's arcane recovery. Half your class level in sorcery points back once per day on a short rest. Easy.

Let me know what you guys think. I definitely need some feedback. I intend to test this out during our next session and come back with some results.

[strangebloke]

Lots of people have talked about this.

1. a good idea, and one that most people agree with.

2. This makes them hilariously good, and probably makes them too flexible.

3. Probably not going to break the game, unsure if its needed. SP already means that the sorcerer has a similar number of spells/day, at least effectively.

Mostly, I just think people need to stop getting greedy with their metamagics and stop trying to shoehorn Sorcerers-as-blasters as being the main thing about a sorcerer. If I were WotC, I'd add some sorcerer-only spells (all we have so far is chaos bolt), add a few cheap metamagic options that can make the sorcerer a better blaster (something like: "Explosive Spell: Once per turn when you cast a spell on a target, you can spend a sorcery point to force all creatures of your choice within 5 feet of the creature make a dex saving throw. On a failed save, they take fire, cold, acid, or lightning damage equal to your level") and maybe release future subclasses with a metamagic option stapled in, like the shadow sorc and divine sorc have.

[samuraijaques]

Lots of people have talked about this.

1. a good idea, and one that most people agree with.

2. This makes them hilariously good, and probably makes them too flexible.

3. Probably not going to break the game, unsure if its needed. SP already means that the sorcerer has a similar number of spells/day, at least effectively.

Mostly, I just think people need to stop getting greedy with their metamagics and stop trying to shoehorn Sorcerers-as-blasters as being the main thing about a sorcerer. If I were WotC, I'd add some sorcerer-only spells (all we have so far is chaos bolt), add a few cheap metamagic options that can make the sorcerer a better blaster (something like: "Explosive Spell: Once per turn when you cast a spell on a target, you can spend a sorcery point to force all creatures of your choice within 5 feet of the creature make a dex saving throw. On a failed save, they take fire, cold, acid, or lightning damage equal to your level") and maybe release future subclasses with a metamagic option stapled in, like the shadow sorc and divine sorc have.

1. Yeah that's what I read too

2. Hilariously good? I disagree. It's effectively doing something that they already do; trading spell slots for other spell slots or metamagic. The problem with the existing mechanic is that the value of a spell slot is complete trash and if that wasn't enough it costs a bonus action to do it. Using spell points and adding them to your sorcery points makes that part of the sorcerer toolkit something that players will actually use. What about it seems so overpowered to you? Druids, clerics and wizards get the entire breadth of spells known plus other goodies. Bards get extra spells from other class lists. With this sorcerers would have the ability to control what level of spells they were casting. It seems pretty fair when you stack it up to the other classes.

3. I can agree with this. Still, not getting anything on a short rest feels bad.

My main problem is that you don't even have to get greedy with the metamagic. You run out very quickly even if you are using them sparingly. Most games don't go past level 10 which means that most sorcerers have very few sorcery points to play with. And I definitely agree that there needs to be more metamagic options and they should probably give sorcerers access to more of them.

[Kane0]

One moment.

Tada! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537049-Sorcerer-Rework)

I came to the same conclusions as yourself, and addressed them in my sorc rework. Has held up to my own testing pretty well, right now i'm DMing a Shadow Sorc and he's having a blast.

[samuraijaques]

One moment.

Tada! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?537049-Sorcerer-Rework)

I came to the same conclusions as yourself, and addressed them in my sorc rework. Has held up to my own testing pretty well, right now i'm DMing a Shadow Sorc and he's having a blast.

Oh man, you went way farther than I would have. Isn't that rework just the obvious pick for best caster? Have you played it in a campaign with another caster?

[Kane0]

Yeah i’ve had them in parties with bards and clerics, they hold their own really well without outshining them.
Havent had them in the same party as a warlock or wizard yet though, i would presume the lack of ritual casting and high rate of sorcery point expenditure would keep them generally on par.