The Lich Consortium: How Would it Work?

[BlackOnyx]

I'm curious: with the distinct flavor most "by-the-book" liches have in 3.5e, how might a proposed association between them play out?


- Might they see each other as kindred spirits? Contemporaries to reach out to in search of knowledge? Or would their (generally) self-serving attitudes & paranoia prove too much of an obstacle to overcome?


- If such an association was successfully formed, what kind of relationship could liches within said association hope to develop? What benefits and challenges might it present? Would it likely be loose in its focus or more direct/hierarchical (assuming relatively similar ECLs from lich to lich)?


Any thoughts or ideas are more than welcome. If possible, though, I'd like to cater responses to how a group of "archetypal" liches (as they're described in the RAW flavor text & official modules) would be likely to respond.


That said, if you have any wilder ideas, feel free to share. I'd love to hear 'em. :smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

I guess it really depends on what liches in your campaign tend to want. I know you're talking about "archetypical" or "stereotypical" liches, but even then, there's some flexibility.

I can see a certain degree of "you're the only one who gets me" attitude coming up between liches, since few other beings would have quite the same worldview of once being mortal and voluntarily shedding mortality for unlife. Even if they wouldn't necessarily trust each other, I think there'd be at least a certain grudging respect for someone else who's made the same very unusual, very worldview-altering choice, you know?

[ViperMagnum357]

I think it would almost entirely depend on the individuals present-unlike many other acquired templates Liches really do not change-they are just who they were before, modified by a lifespan that now stretches into centuries and millennia. On the other hand, by definition all of them are reasonably powerful casters with some magical crafting ability; that would likely form the basis of any interaction, after accounting for alignments.

I can imagine plenty of inter-class snobbery depending on the type of magic they wield, especially the dignified Wizards and other prepared caster PRCs looking down on the uncouth Bards and Sorcerers. Likewise, there would probably be a significant rift between most Liches and any that are Clerics or other devout classes beholden to Deities; after all, becoming a Lich is usually the first option looked at for someone looking to extend their life indefinitely under their own power. Necropolitan requires trusting someone else with your existence, linking yourself to a greater power leaves you at their mercy, and most other readily known methods have severe drawbacks of one sort or another; and most other Undead templates leave you exceeding fragile. Any 'typical' Lich would likely look askance at a Lich sworn to serve another power, and question why they crafted a phylactery at all.

[Falontani]

Unless they cooperate with each other for some gain they will only use each other to the best of their capabilities while fully expecting them to go the same to them. The world is a large place and unless they are vying for the same portion they should be fine.

Things I would expect them to do: trade services. (Let me learn from your spell book and you can learn from mine) Trade goods. (slaves, corpses, research material, monsters, magic items) Hire another for a specific task. (I have a meeting with a fiend at 3 this afternoon, however some adventurers are raiding my residence, could you control my defenses while I'm away?)

Etc. As long as one does not attempt to rob the eternity that they have purchased it would go smoothly. Their last source of associates that they can "trust".

[Mechalich]

The best known example of a liches consortium in existing D&D fluff is the Twisted Rune (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Twisted_Rune) in FR (a portion of which you can briefly fight in BGII). Make of that example what you will.

In general the only reason for liches to work together is so they can attain something they would not be able to attain individually. In order for this to even be the case at all, you have to assume a very low-optimization backdrop. High-op high-level full casters have essentially no restrictions on personal capability once they start mucking about with demiplanes and associated other chicanery. Assuming this is the case, then we can move to the question of what a typical lich would want. There's basically two options: magic and power. Money is irrelevant and so are any hypothetical pleasures of the flesh.

The general reason to collude together for increases in power is because there's some other person who can stop you. The Twisted Rune is operating under this condition - by working together they insulate themselves from annoying do-gooders such as the Chosen of Mystra trying to wipe them out in an idle afternoon. Colluding for the purpose of greater magic is more like operating as a cartel. Multiple liches can do a better job controlling the flow of mystical artifacts, knowledge, and points of power than one alone and by working together they may acquire monopoly power.

[Tvtyrant]

Same reason scientists and board optimizers. Most Liches in D&D are obsessed with magical research. It takes years to invent a new spell, magic item or epic spell. Four liches invent four times as much stuff, so they do more by sharing.

Say one writes the Shadowcraft Mage handbook, personally testing the limits of shadow magic and all of the ways it can be abused. Another makes the Polymorph Bible, and a third one works on an epic spell that makes a new kind of tofu. They could spend centuries reresearching all of that, or just share with each other.

Also assisting in casting epic spells of chain gating is forbidden.

[Bucky]

I'd run it as an exclusive high-end social club. For a bunch of multi-century-old, filthy rich outcasts, long running friendships are more valuable than anything money can buy.

Sure, there are gains to be had from backstabbing. But if that means being thrown out of the one place you can find camaraderie, for the rest of your unnaturally long existence? Not worth it.

[Karl Aegis]

They kill each other and use the fallen's phylactery as a set of batteries for their grisgol. The more grisgols the better.

[Segev]

Honestly, liches have a propensity to be loners, because the things that drive most of them are a desire not to need anybody else and to have time for their research. This is not universal, of course; the lure of immortality is strong for many reasons. But the successful ones at a minimum have a talent and drive to research enough to figure out how to achieve the state.

That said, even loners sometimes want interaction, a sounding board, or a peer to converse with. I could see liches who have sending or scrying-enabled regular correspondence, or even who just have minions cart letters back and forth on a monthly or so basis. (They would not feel a need to write constantly, as there's always time to get to it.) Maybe this is even how one particular sorcerer or wizard becomes a lich: he's a fellow-researcher in correspondence with an existing one, who, upon learning his colleague is slowing down in his old age, scoffs and sends him some pointers, if not an out-and-out recipe. Much the way an old man who hears that his colleague is suffering the same arthritis he used to might send the means of relieving it that he uses.

Long-distance relationships of this sort would be the most common of an relatively uncommon consortium, I think, because of their tendency towards isolation and their lack of need to depend on anybody else, combined with the eternity stretching ahead of them giving them no sense of urgency to make the communication faster, or even a priority.

When they meet, liches generally have no motive to hurt each other, barring personal animosity or conflicting goals. Their innate natures don't call for it, so their interpersonal relationships would govern it. They likely are all paranoid enough that they're taking pains to keep the others from finding their phylacteries, but in a lich consortium, asking after another's phylactery would be...impertinent, if not downright rude, so anybody who indicated a concern over its revelation would be met with understanding. And, barring a real benefit to getting ahold of it, most other liches probably would not even be all that predatory about it.

Liches known for making grisgol, or for enslaving other liches, would not be well-received. Not that liches have a problem with slavery, as a rule, but the notion that it could happen to them, and the implication of betrayal or otherwise hostile interaction between that lich and his minions, is enough to reasonably put some distaste in the mouths of these undead.

There is little reason for them to gather, too, unless they have ambitions of rulership. And in that case, the same courtly politics of a deadly decadent court that apply to any other creature type would prevail. Since liches tend towards the paranoid, most would avoid such situations, though of course, each is unique and may have their own reasons for immersing themselves.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Lich Consortium?
Clearly they're an early warning system against the apocalypse. They all want to rule the world, but they don't want an "inferior being" to get it before they can. So they swap info about devil plots, mind flayer/aboleth infiltrations, celestial alliances with mortals... They don't trust each other, but they swap tips like "send your minions to investigate devils here" and they trade favours. They are all too ambitious to trust each other, but they're all hard to kill and they share concerns and enemies (and disdain for the living and lesser forms of undead). They take pains not to show vulnerability to each other though.

Oh, and they've agreed to avenge each other if something other than each other kills one of them.

[King of Nowhere]

If they can manage to trust each other enough (as has been said, creatures so long-lived would value long friendship) they could protect each other phylactery. What better defence than giving it to a high level caster? In general, mutual defence against those pesky do-gooders that just have to insist in calling them abomination (seriously, the bigotry of some people!) would be a concern to liches.

Sharing research is another, but has been mentioned already.

And I can fully see them forming a pricate club just for the company. Their minds are still mostly human; they will have hobbies and they will like the company of like-minded individuals, as long as they are not in direct competition.

[Khedrac]

In the old 1st Ed module H4: Throne of Bloodstone there is a city populated by 100 liches (and 12 demiliches and 12 death knights) on Orcus' level of the Abyss. Whilst this seems like a fairly overwhelming threat even by the Abyss's standards, it was actually one of the few places where the party might be able to get (i.e. buy) allies against Orcus. The module doesn't go into details about what they wanted beyond that they want Orcus overthrown so that they can dominate the layer.

[Pex]

A Cabal to rule the world. Either they're trying to gain control or already have control and to maintain it they make sure no one knows they're in control. They don't want pesky adventurers ruining everything.

A Betting Ring. Immortality gets boring after awhile. Meddling adventurers also keep bothering them. If they stop trying to make everyone undead slaves or other conquests adventurers leave them alone. Liches come together to share knowledge and place bets on current events such as who will win a war or will The Magnificent Adventuring Party find the princess in time before the dragon eats her. They'll have rules on how much influence, if any, they can put into having their preferred outcome happen to win the bet.

A Wizards' Guild whom have forgotten they are undead liches. They've been at it so long everything has become habit. They go about their business as they always have. Since they run the Guild they send underlings to do errands. Only those they have direct contact with know they're liches. They don't tell anyone because the pay is good, they can learn great magic of their own, and they consider themselves the true power because the general population only deals with them.

[Efrate]

Lich loved is a feat so there is at least something to physical carnal pleasures.

Since research is huge and a big reason why they go immortal, sharing the results of that is a big deal. A secret matters little if no one knows it. One-upmanship would be a big deal. Discoveries only matter if published, and so on. They are proud enough that would be a big feature of their club I imagine. Plus any arcana dc 40 thing they are obsessing over is kind of hard to talk about with anyone else. Genius hates not having others to interact with on their level.

Then there is the whole baelnorn thing as well, a dirty secret of the consortium that they look to repress.

[Oracle71]

I would assume that the liches consortium organization, and behavior, would be the same as what the wizards and sorcerers would be from the culture they originate from.

If the mages in your campaign world are all paranoid loners who would slit each others throats on principle, then that is how the liches woud tend to be.

But if the mages have a number of universities and libraries that they are affiliated with, the liches may likewise band together to better facilitate their research or record keeping, just as they did when they were fully living. I could even imagine a group coming together in an annual conference to compare notes, either to gain insight from from the others work, or to make sure that the history books are untainted by personal bias.

[Aquillion]

In general the only reason for liches to work together is so they can attain something they would not be able to attain individually. In order for this to even be the case at all, you have to assume a very low-optimization backdrop. High-op high-level full casters have essentially no restrictions on personal capability once they start mucking about with demiplanes and associated other chicanery. Disagree with this logic for the same reason Tippyverse exists. Even at the absolute highest levels of optimization (well, short of Pun-Pun, anyway), in a direct confrontation, the side with more full casters on their side will win. Action economy is brutal in 3.5 and while high-optimization casters can cheat it to an extent they don't escape it entirely; two optimized casters get to cast spells twice as fast as one equally-optimized caster, and that's an inescapable rule no matter how many shenanigans they pull.

Also, even at reasonably high optimization (ie. optimal spells, but XP and money still matter to some extent), wizards benefit from working together because it's a cheap and easy way to fill out your spellbooks.

So casters have an incentive to work together in order to beat other casters and to share knowledge. If a bunch of Liches decide to form a Lich Mafia and claim territory, loners of roughly equal power and optimization aren't going to be able to effectively oppose them.

And there's individual things they can want beyond that. Artifacts, rare spell components, power over a particular region or city or Wizard Academy that cranks out more full casters, etc. These things - when full casters fight over them - are going to be taken by the organized groups with more experienced casters on their sides. A loner could only win if they are significantly more experienced or optimized, and there's no reason to think that would be the case.

[King of Nowhere]

Lich loved is a feat so there is at least something to physical carnal pleasures.


That can be taken care of by simple polymorph anyway.