Battletech! (The new one)

[Kaptin Keen]

Have you played it? Is it good?

I really like Hare Brained's take on Shadowrun - even if it was remarkably unlike the rule set of the books, it was very much like the world/setting, and they were some really good games. So I have high hopes for this one.

The Mod Wonder: Since it seems relevant, a list of mech chasises and their hardpoints. (https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/10748)

[Hunter Noventa]

I've played around with it a little bit and it's pretty fun. the story mode seems interesting, even if I only really got through the first mission. Skirmish mode is exactly what you'd expect.

I think the most lacking feature is mech customization. You're very limited in terms of what kind of weaponry you can mount to a mech, so you can't so silly things like use every point of tonnage on heat sinks and small lasers. Each mech only has a few preset hardpoints for each kind of weapon (aCs, Missiles, Beams, and Support) and while you can mess around with changing those around, you can't do much besides that.

I know it's partially an engine limitation, they made each mech model have visible locations for weapon effects to emit from, and they did at least give you a few variants of most of the mechs with different hardpoint loadouts, but it's still a little disappointing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Not sure what Shadowrun has to do with Battletech 3025, but yea... this game rocks.

Many of the changes were necessary. For example, in classic Battletech 3025, AC/2's and to a lesser extend AC/5's were completely useless because they weighed so much and took up so many crit slots for so little damage. AC/10's were more relevant, but were even heavier. But hey, they did more than the 9 damage needed to headcap, so that made them relevant. Obviously, AC/20's were nice on heavy/assault mechs (or the Hunchback). But really, you didn't want to mount any kind of AC system on a Light or Medium mech, because they were just too damn bulky. Especially when you compare them to something like a PPC, which CAN be (barely) fit into a light mech (such as the infamous Panther, a.k.a. the alleycat).

The stability system basically replaced piloting checks, and I'm just as good with that. They brought SRM's from 'solid' to 'ZOMGWTFBBQ' and LRM's to 'you need at least one missile support mech in your lance once you get a Trebuchet chassis up and running, then upgrade to Catapult as soon as you can'.

The heat system was overhauled a little, instead of heat now having a chance of causing your mech to cook off its ammo (with predictably fatal consequences), it would just do structural damage all over, which costs time and money to repair back at base, so you can't just load out like 4 PPC's onto a mech and figure you overheat every other round and be good with it.

The targeting system is pretty amazing as well, and I see the roots of the tabletop game's system all over the place, as well as some subtle improvements. For example, called shots on shut down or knocked down mechs is pretty nice. And they seem to have done away with punch/hit location table all together, so you can't just have a one in six chance of blowing someone's head off with a melee attack. Which I consider an improvement.

Overall, this is the game Battletech has been needing for twenty plus years now. It is a must-have for any TBS or Grand Strategy fan, as well as anyone who remembers playing the old tabletop set in the 3025 era before cheater Clan tech and their insane double heat sinks blew the whole concept of balance out of the water.


I've played around with it a little bit and it's pretty fun. the story mode seems interesting, even if I only really got through the first mission. Skirmish mode is exactly what you'd expect.

I think the most lacking feature is mech customization. You're very limited in terms of what kind of weaponry you can mount to a mech, so you can't so silly things like use every point of tonnage on heat sinks and small lasers. Each mech only has a few preset hardpoints for each kind of weapon (aCs, Missiles, Beams, and Support) and while you can mess around with changing those around, you can't do much besides that.

I know it's partially an engine limitation, they made each mech model have visible locations for weapon effects to emit from, and they did at least give you a few variants of most of the mechs with different hardpoint loadouts, but it's still a little disappointing.

That's not an engine limitation, that's done on purpose. However, you CAN add and remove hard points to a chassis, it just costs you time and money to do so in the mech shop. The purpose of the hardpoints is a) to help the mechs keep the same feel as the iconic units, b) to prevent cheese like you described, and c) because it adds another layer of complexity and makes (for example) a Shadowhawk chassis and a Hunchback chassis mechanically different, despite both being 55 ton mechs.

[Hunter Noventa]

Not sure what Shadowrun has to do with Battletech 3025, but yea... this game rocks.

{snip}

That's not an engine limitation, that's done on purpose. However, you CAN add and remove hard points to a chassis, it just costs you time and money to do so in the mech shop. The purpose of the hardpoints is a) to help the mechs keep the same feel as the iconic units, b) to prevent cheese like you described, and c) because it adds another layer of complexity and makes (for example) a Shadowhawk chassis and a Hunchback chassis mechanically different, despite both being 55 ton mechs.

The new Shadowrun game was made by the same developer, and a potential indicator of quality. And actually, both Shadowrun and Battletech were created by the same company originally, FASA.

And I see, I was mainly messing around with that in the skirmish mode mechbay and didn't see a way to shift things around.

[Drasius]

Disclaimer: I am a pretty serious B-Tech fanboy, have all >100 novels, used to play the TT, I backed the Kickstarter 2.5 years ago and played the beta fairly extensively.

I have 30 hours on it already according to steam and have found it to be quite engaging though there are minor niggles here and there. Some people report crashing on start-up and very high GPU usage, though I have only had 1 crash so far (and that was to do with Paradox's server being overwhelmed by the surge of nerds on release) and my GPU is 20C cooler than it was when it was running the beta.

The mechs are basically ports from Mechwarrior:Online from an agreement with PGI, but everything else has been done by the guys who made B-Tech 30'ish years ago, so while there are a few tweaks to make if fit (and some long overdue adjustment to AC/2's and /5's), it's pleasantly close to Tabletop rules and the setting and lore are ignorable if you don't care but very true to the source material if you're at all familiar with it. Graphics-wise, the mechs themselves are a bit blocky due to their original design and, to be honest, don't make such a good translation at extreme levels of zoom, but the environments, effects and weapons are all top notch.

If you've played any sort of Turn Based Strategy before, you should find the first dozen or so missions pretty easy, but rest assured, the training wheels definately come off later. The tutorial is a bit sparse, but there's nothing you can't figure out yourself if you've even vaugely familiar with either TBS or B-Tech or with one of the many guides, tips and tricks found on the net if you're struggling.

The story is pretty standard space opera stuff, very BattleTech in feel, though I would have liked a little more ... I dunno, something to make the periphery actually feel like the periphery, but again, unless you're heavily into the lore, you won't notice anything amiss (or even if you are, it's a pretty minor quibble on my part).

The actual game though? It's pretty great. The only complaint I'd say is worth mentioning is that it can have a couple of second pause between units finishing their turn and while it's not really that noticable in smaller battles, once you're at anything above ~4 vs 8 (not terribly common), especially if your turns are in a big lump and the enemy turns are all in a big lump, it can get a bit annoying. If you liked X-com but wished your guys were not quite so squishy and could shoot missiles, lasers and autocannons, then you'll be fairly at home here.

Beyond that, PPC's sizzle bolts of man-made lightning across varied landscapes while Long Range Missiles arc contrails through alien skies and machines the size of houses viciously punch each other in desperate melee combat. There's a decent amount of 'mechs to try out, a 'mech lab to let you tinker with said 'mechs, a variety of landscapes, each with their own effect on heat dissipation and cover to fight in and on, destructible buildings, plenty of vehicles to fight too, ranging from light wheeled scouts to heavy and assault class battletanks.

You have your own mercenary company to manage, from the 'mechs to the warriors, to the contracts you sign, the missions you fight and the places and people you deal with. The story structure feels a bit like it was lifted out of an early bioware effort in that there's a bunch of different dialouge options, but you're still basically railroaded into doing the thing they want you to. You create a character and the background you select both gives you benefits to your skills but also lets you interject stuff into conversations and very occassionally helps you with the minor issues that crop up as you're travelling around with your band of murder-hobos. There's also a bit of a base-building upgrade-y sort of thing (that, again, is kinda like the X-Com anthill or the base from a Bioware title, but not quite).

The main characters in the story run the gamut from memorable and engaging to forgetable and bland and while there's plenty of Pilots, they're closer to X-com grunts than they are to true party members, though some will click sufficiently that you'll remember them.

As a huge BattleTech fan, I'd give it a 9.5/10, if you like X-Com or similar, then I'd suggest it'll be roughly in the 8-9/10 range, if you like turn based strats, then it's pretty likely that you'll find more than enough to keep you entertained, but if you're more into twitch shooters or expecting something more along ye olde Mechwarrior lines, I'd probably watch a stream or other gameplay before you dive in. It's quite complex, but it shouldn't be too hard to master if you make the effort, though it's still very possible to fail as the hand-holding stops fairly early.

[Lost Demiurge]

I'm liking it. Story's good so far, the combat's nifty, and messing around with mech loadouts makes me a happy man. Serious nostalgia rush, there.

I like the fact that actions have consequences, but you can recover from most of the consequences. I don't feel like I have to save-scum my way through it if a pilot dies. Sucks, but there's more where they came from.

All this on top of running a merc company, which is awesome fun inside of itself. This is the sort of thing I wanted to do with a tabletop gaming group, but never had the system or the time or the people...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The new Shadowrun game was made by the same developer, and a potential indicator of quality. And actually, both Shadowrun and Battletech were created by the same company originally, FASA.

And I see, I was mainly messing around with that in the skirmish mode mechbay and didn't see a way to shift things around.

Shadowrun was made by FASA? Huh, never knew that. That was, perhaps, the one game system I managed to never get into during the 80's and 90's. GURPS, D&D, RIFTS/Palladium, OWoD... sure. But never did get into Shadowrun.

And yea, they don't want you hot-swapping the hard points in Skirmish mode because they're trying to limit cheese. You see a Hunchback, you know that you don't want to get too close to it, because it is going to *hurt* if that AC/20 hits.

Also, play the campaign. It is one of the best I've ever seen. You start off as a small merc company fielding mostly light mechs with maybe a couple of mediums. You go from there to change the fate of worlds. In the most epic way possible. You can find + and ++ gear, which are strict upgrades. For example, you can find an SRM6++ with 50% crit bonus. Not cheap, but holy crap that thing is awesome. Or an LRM++ that deals an extra point of damage *per missile*. I... don't really think I need to say anything more. Or an SRM/LRM system with bonus stability damage. You can also, rarely, find other pieces of gear, upgraded cockpits to give more hit points to your pilot and such. At the end of the campaign, you are fielding far more dangerous mechs than you could ever hope to get from Skirmish mode.

That's not trying to bash Skirmish mode. It's fun, it's fast setup, and it gets you into the lance-on-lance action. It uses iconic mechs from the era, because that's mostly what exists at that time, and if you had access to all the customization options you do in the Campaign mode... well, that would break all semblance of balance in a multiplayer function.

Still... do yourself a favor. Play the campaign. I assure you... you won't regret it.

[GungHo]

Shadowrun was made by FASA? Huh, never knew that. That was, perhaps, the one game system I managed to never get into during the 80's and 90's. GURPS, D&D, RIFTS/Palladium, OWoD... sure. But never did get into Shadowrun.
Shadowrun was also FASA, but what he's saying is that Harebrained, the developer for this particular Battletech game, released a Shadowrun computer game a couple of years ago.

The first version of was pretty rough, but they refined it quite a bit by the time they got to their third campaign.



I think part of the problem with the reception of this game (that it's slow and ponderous) is that not a lot of folks who have been playing big shooty robots recently are used to turn based actions. The last few Battletech (and other shooty robot) games have been real time, and even the last 3rd person squad-oriented Mech Commander was more of an RTS than anything. Additionally, XCOM also had a number of mods to address a lot of the weird pausing, so the people that were playing that as a shooty soldier game who are also interested in big shooty robots may not have gotten the "full ponder" recently.

[Zombimode]

The new Shadowrun game was made by the same developer, and a potential indicator of quality. And actually, both Shadowrun and Battletech were created by the same company originally, FASA.

Jordan Weisman, the lead developer of the Shadowrun Returns games and the new Battletech game is the creator of both Shadowrun and Battletech.

[Drasius]

The new Shadowrun game was made by the same developer, and a potential indicator of quality. And actually, both Shadowrun and Battletech were created by the same company originally, FASA.


Shadowrun was made by FASA? Huh, never knew that. That was, perhaps, the one game system I managed to never get into during the 80's and 90's. GURPS, D&D, RIFTS/Palladium, OWoD... sure. But never did get into Shadowrun.


Shadowrun was also FASA, but what he's saying is that Harebrained, the developer for this particular Battletech game, released a Shadowrun computer game a couple of years ago.

Not only is by the same group who made Shadowrun, but one of the head guys at Harebrained created both Shadowrun and Battletech (though both were joint efforts, Jordan Weisman has been involved with both from start [in the early 80's for B-Tech] to the present day and has even written novels for said series along with roughly a billion other things).

Edit: Damn Street Ninja's!

[Hunter Noventa]

That's not trying to bash Skirmish mode. It's fun, it's fast setup, and it gets you into the lance-on-lance action. It uses iconic mechs from the era, because that's mostly what exists at that time, and if you had access to all the customization options you do in the Campaign mode... well, that would break all semblance of balance in a multiplayer function.

Still... do yourself a favor. Play the campaign. I assure you... you won't regret it.

Good points all around, especially in terms of balance. I was planning to play the campaign of course, it's just a matter of how much time I have to invest at once.

I was able to make a quite murderous Jaegermech variant among others, I just need to figure out what to do for the light mech in my custom lance before I do some multiplayer with friends.

[Kaptin Keen]

Thank you all for the feedback. Back in the day, when the reigning title was Battlemech 3 Mercenaries, I loved it to bits - it's one of the very, very few titles I even played in pvp, and did well with. I guess I was just fairly good at aiming for legs. Later, when Mech Commander launched, I played that vigorously too.

So, since the concensus seems to be that this is good, I shall go forth, posthaste, and get stuck in.

[Jama7301]

I've never played anything Battletech related before, and I'm on the fence about this one, but leaning towards getting it. I'm both intimidated by the potential amount of options and subsystems in the campaign, but also interested in commanding a squad of stompy mechs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Good points all around, especially in terms of balance. I was planning to play the campaign of course, it's just a matter of how much time I have to invest at once.

I was able to make a quite murderous Jaegermech variant among others, I just need to figure out what to do for the light mech in my custom lance before I do some multiplayer with friends.

Depends on what you want the light mech to do. If you're wanting a spotter, with some punch, it's hard to go wrong with a Panther. 35 ton mech with jump jets and a PPC. Known as the 'alleycat' for its propinsity for urban combat and getting alley shots from half way across the board.

The Jenner is a pretty solid light mech. Personally, I'd dump a Medium Laser in favor of upgrading the SRM/4 to an SRM/6 and a half ton of armor, but I tend to be picky about my SRM loadouts (go 6 or go home). SRM's are great for 'crit fishing' because each individual missile has a chance of critting if it hits an unarmored location.

The Spider is another classic extremely mobile scouting mech. Although only armed with a pair of Medium Lasers, this is quite possibly the most mobile mech available in Skirmish Mode. It is absolutely amazing at jumping around, providing firing solutions, and using Sensor Lock for his heavier friends to reach out and frag someone.

The Javelin is another solid classic, a 30 ton mech with twin SRM/6's and good mobility with jump jets. They are amazing for jumping in, getting crits, then jumping back out before people can respond. The key here is to Reserve until after the target mech has moved, then pound it until it has one or more vulnerable armor slots, then use the Javelin to close, crit-fish, then next turn he acts on the light mech phase before his target can respond and moves back away into cover, possibly sensor locking something else.

[Triaxx]

Don't forget, we're playing with IS Mechs, not Clan Omni Mechs. So the Hardpoints make perfect sense.

[LibraryOgre]

I wish my computer could run it.

[Kaptin Keen]

I wish my computer could run it.

I just arrived at the same conclusion. After buying it, obviously. Well, I've needed to replace it for a long time. Guess the time is now.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Don't forget, we're playing with IS Mechs, not Clan Omni Mechs. So the Hardpoints make perfect sense.

Actually, hardpoints make even *more* sense with Omni mechs, it's just that the hardpoint generally has more than one weapon system, and Omnimechs can swap stuff out mostly on the fly.

For example, an Omnimech with an arm that could be an AC/20, a Gauss Rifle, or a RAC/5, with ammo making up the difference in weight. The whole arm is basically a hardpoint, and you swap out which arm you want for which scenario.

[Drasius]

Actually, hardpoints make even *more* sense with Omni mechs, it's just that the hardpoint generally has more than one weapon system, and Omnimechs can swap stuff out mostly on the fly.

For example, an Omnimech with an arm that could be an AC/20, a Gauss Rifle, or a RAC/5, with ammo making up the difference in weight. The whole arm is basically a hardpoint, and you swap out which arm you want for which scenario.

Yes and no. For an omni, there's no reason why you couldn't throw a pair of ER LL's in where an Ultra /10 used to be, but for spheroid stuff, you're limited to replacing like with like (ie ballistic with ballistic) since they're limited in how much of the mech the techs can pull apart and rebuild. The system we have now doesn't cover the full extent of the jury-rigging system TT campaigns have, but it's close enough and it means the variants actually mean something now, as you can't turn a swayback into a regular -4G or visa versa.

To be honest, a lot of what we have stretches disbelief a bit (and I'll be even more cynical once I open the Star League Castle Brian), but hey, 'tis a game, it needs to be fun while staying as true to the source material as possible, so a few compromises can be made to have sufficient free-reign to tell a story, and the periphery is the perfect place to do so given the insanely documented and detailed nature of the inner sphere from 3025 onwards.

I must admit, there's quite a few little references and easter eggs to older titles in there too. Mention of "Pirate's Moon" being washed out and desolate, I've got a sneaking suspicion they might have hired Epona to voice some of the dialouge and the lasers are back to the red/green/blue vets know and love from MW2/GBL/Mercs rather than the later installments. I'm sure there'll be plenty more as the campaign goes on.

[The Glyphstone]

Does anyone threaten to turn that beer can you call a mech into scrap?

[Drasius]

Does anyone threaten to turn that beer can you call a mech into scrap?

Not yet, but there's a quote from "Deadeye" Unther: "In real combat, speed is life. You go slow, you die."

There are suspicions from some that the VO for the intro mentor is the same guy, however internet sleuthery hasn't turned up anything concrete.

[Olinser]

I'm enjoying it pretty thoroughly although as a couple have pointed out there are DEFINITE gaps in weapon balance. Certain weapons simply do SIGNIFICANTLY more damage with the same tonnage, and some weapons are just totally useless.

Campaign is solid but nothing special - but its a great base for future upgrades and story packs.

From a previous BattleTech games it doesn't really compare to the MechWarrior franchise as those are effectively FPS games.

But it is superior in basically every possible way to the rather mediocre MechCommander games previously released about 15 years ago.

I'm REALLY hoping they keep the game going and we get a Clan Invasion expansion pack. Since it is run by Paradox I have high hopes we will get future updates.

[factotum]

I wish my computer could run it.

Wow, *recommended* 16Gb of RAM? Even Far Cry 5 only recommends 8!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm enjoying it pretty thoroughly although as a couple have pointed out there are DEFINITE gaps in weapon balance. Certain weapons simply do SIGNIFICANTLY more damage with the same tonnage, and some weapons are just totally useless.Actually, they've gone a VERY long way to making balance MUCH better than the original table top, however since you mention tonnage instead of heat, I suspect you're falling into the same pitfall that virtually all neophyte Battletech players fall into: heat is just as important as tonnage. At least in 3025 before Clan tech and double heat sinks show up to ruin the balance forever.

For example, an AC/2 (such as starts off on your Blackjack you get at the beginning of the game) used to be useless in the tabletop game, it did a whole 2 points, the same as a single SRM missile. It just sucked. However, in this version, the AC/2 does the same damage as the Medium Laser, for less heat, and at far greater range. This makes it an actually viable sniping tool. Plus you're almost never going to run out of ammo, even on a single ton of ammo feeding two weapons.

For comparison between AC/10 and PPC, however, the tradeoff is strictly tonnage for heat generation. PPC's generates a HUGE amount of heat. Almost any mech is going to heat up firing just one of these babies by itself, which is going to be REALLY problematic if you are on a desert or moon world where heat dissipation is reduced. The AC/10, however, deals a serious punch for virtually no heat cost. Granted, you're probably going to want a second ton of ammo, but you should be able to take any reasonable shot you want without appreciably heating up your mech. Furthermore, that means you could, say, pair an AC/10 with a PPC to get twice the power for little more than the heat of a single PPC, because two would shut down most mechs in a couple of turns if they went all out (and a common pitfall of most new Marauder pilots).

I would even go so far as to say that there are no useless weapons in this game anymore. Even the Machine Gun has a viable purpose, even the Flamer has a purpose.


I'm REALLY hoping they keep the game going and we get a Clan Invasion expansion pack. Since it is run by Paradox I have high hopes we will get future updates.
Honestly? I'm really not. Here's the thing, clan tech destroyed the game balance when it was first released, forcing WizKids to invent the BP system we all know and loathe today. But the single biggest imbalancing factor were not the crazy Clan ER PPC's or the Medium Pulse Lasers... it was the Double Heat Sinks. 20 heat on most mechs meant it was ice cold. You literally could not overheat a light mech anymore, and you had to have specific loadouts heavy on IS energy weaponry to overheat a medium mech. Which caused the mindset you referenced earlier about 'why use this Autocanon when for the same weight I could mount two or three PPC's', since heat was almost completely removed from the equation. It took a MAJOR balance factor... and chucked it right out the airlock.

XL Engines, at least the Clan version, to a lesser degree, were also bad for balance, but at least they had a penalty because if someone took out a side torso your mech pretty much up and died.

I have no idea how they would balance things in a post-Clan Invasion setting. Personally, if I were doing it, I'd just flat prohibit player-used Clan mechs, and have the Clan be exclusively computer controlled. This would make an interesting expansion, I feel. You end your campaign successfully, you've got assault lances available for drop, you think you are king of the mountain. Then the Clan invade. Now you have to defend against Clan tech with the tech you have available, and try to reverse engineer and imperfectly reproduce their tech. While fighting Clan tech with 3025 tech. THAT would be fun. It lets the computer throw extremely challenging fights rigged against you without needing to swarm you.

Of course, then the internet would be full of Madcat fanboys wanking about how they couldn't pilot one.

[Triaxx]

Much as I love the Timberwolf, I'd definitely prefer a Rifleman or a Nova.

As for Heat, multiple PPC's has always been to me an 'All or Nothing' attack option. I show up with two of them mounted on whatever I'm piloting, but at most I use a single shot now and again, but if I'm in position say behind a target to punch through rear armor, I've got to estimate if it's worth a potential critical overheat, to potentially kill the target.

[Drasius]

I'm enjoying it pretty thoroughly although as a couple have pointed out there are DEFINITE gaps in weapon balance. Certain weapons simply do SIGNIFICANTLY more damage with the same tonnage, and some weapons are just totally useless.

Campaign is solid but nothing special - but its a great base for future upgrades and story packs.

From a previous BattleTech games it doesn't really compare to the MechWarrior franchise as those are effectively FPS games.

But it is superior in basically every possible way to the rather mediocre MechCommander games previously released about 15 years ago.

I'm REALLY hoping they keep the game going and we get a Clan Invasion expansion pack. Since it is run by Paradox I have high hopes we will get future updates.

What weapons are you finding useless? Traditionally the only crap weapons were the AC/2 and /5 (as Shneeky pointed out) and they've been overtuned adjusted nicely. The only other offender that springs to mind is the LRM 10 vs the 5, but then, breaching shot and hardpoint restrictions are things, so while heavily overshadowed, it's not totally useless. Everything else that I can think of is usable, though I'm still not sold on the LL being very good.

Re: MechCommander being bad? You can shut your whore mouth my good Sir.

IF (big if) they do a clan X-pac instead of the 4th succession war, the war of 3039, CapCon/FWL invasion of the FedRats, Chaos March or FedCom Civil War, I hope it's a clan vs clan thing (ie war of refusal) rather than yet another IS vs Clan thing (3050, Falcon invasion, Operation Bulldog), though setting it up so that you're fighting as the clanners in the 3050 invasion would be a possible route since it's easy to excuse away why you're only bringing a single star or less of 'mechs vs a company or more of enemies. IS vs clan poses problems not only in balance, but also of lore - not only were the number of merc units that didn't get their poo very thoroughly pushed in able to be counted on 1 hand that had had a nasty bandsaw related incident, you could and would retire the instant you salvaged a clan mech due to the IS houses either buying you out or killing you for it. On top of that, B-Tech has a rather fractured base in that many people see the clans as a jumping the shark moment and would avoid it because of that (same thing for the WoB jihad era).

[Triaxx]

Anyone who thinks they're going to make everyone happy is very new to the internet.

[Olinser]

Actually, they've gone a VERY long way to making balance MUCH better than the original table top, however since you mention tonnage instead of heat, I suspect you're falling into the same pitfall that virtually all neophyte Battletech players fall into: heat is just as important as tonnage. At least in 3025 before Clan tech and double heat sinks show up to ruin the balance forever.

For example, an AC/2 (such as starts off on your Blackjack you get at the beginning of the game) used to be useless in the tabletop game, it did a whole 2 points, the same as a single SRM missile. It just sucked. However, in this version, the AC/2 does the same damage as the Medium Laser, for less heat, and at far greater range. This makes it an actually viable sniping tool. Plus you're almost never going to run out of ammo, even on a single ton of ammo feeding two weapons.

For comparison between AC/10 and PPC, however, the tradeoff is strictly tonnage for heat generation. PPC's generates a HUGE amount of heat. Almost any mech is going to heat up firing just one of these babies by itself, which is going to be REALLY problematic if you are on a desert or moon world where heat dissipation is reduced. The AC/10, however, deals a serious punch for virtually no heat cost. Granted, you're probably going to want a second ton of ammo, but you should be able to take any reasonable shot you want without appreciably heating up your mech. Furthermore, that means you could, say, pair an AC/10 with a PPC to get twice the power for little more than the heat of a single PPC, because two would shut down most mechs in a couple of turns if they went all out (and a common pitfall of most new Marauder pilots).

I would even go so far as to say that there are no useless weapons in this game anymore. Even the Machine Gun has a viable purpose, even the Flamer has a purpose.


Honestly? I'm really not. Here's the thing, clan tech destroyed the game balance when it was first released, forcing WizKids to invent the BP system we all know and loathe today. But the single biggest imbalancing factor were not the crazy Clan ER PPC's or the Medium Pulse Lasers... it was the Double Heat Sinks. 20 heat on most mechs meant it was ice cold. You literally could not overheat a light mech anymore, and you had to have specific loadouts heavy on IS energy weaponry to overheat a medium mech. Which caused the mindset you referenced earlier about 'why use this Autocanon when for the same weight I could mount two or three PPC's', since heat was almost completely removed from the equation. It took a MAJOR balance factor... and chucked it right out the airlock.

XL Engines, at least the Clan version, to a lesser degree, were also bad for balance, but at least they had a penalty because if someone took out a side torso your mech pretty much up and died.

I have no idea how they would balance things in a post-Clan Invasion setting. Personally, if I were doing it, I'd just flat prohibit player-used Clan mechs, and have the Clan be exclusively computer controlled. This would make an interesting expansion, I feel. You end your campaign successfully, you've got assault lances available for drop, you think you are king of the mountain. Then the Clan invade. Now you have to defend against Clan tech with the tech you have available, and try to reverse engineer and imperfectly reproduce their tech. While fighting Clan tech with 3025 tech. THAT would be fun. It lets the computer throw extremely challenging fights rigged against you without needing to swarm you.

Of course, then the internet would be full of Madcat fanboys wanking about how they couldn't pilot one.

Uh.... no. I've played BattleTech for a number of years. You're the one that appears to be the neophyte because you're not taking into account the full tonnage, heat and damage equation for the weapons.

The AC/2 in this game is one of the worst possible weapons to mount versus almost anything else because its tonnage requirement is WAY out of line with its damage/heat/range.

You're comparing the AC/2 to the Medium laser in this game? The AC/2 plus ammo that takes 7 tonnes? 7 Tonnes for ONE 25 damage shot a turn?

Medium Lasers are relatively inefficient - they more serve the purpose of 'hmm I have a couple tonnes left over may as well put them in just to fill out a little more damage' rather than as a primary chassis loadout.

And yet for the same tonnage as an AC/2 you could mount 2 Medium Lasers and 5 heat sinks. Double the damage and the same heat when firing - plus the extra 15 heat dissipation when you're not firing. Lower range can be a factor but since the AC requires direct line of sight means you're not generally in a position to take advantage of much of that long range.

Or you could, once gain, take the same 7 tonnage as the AC/2 plus ammo, and mount an LRM10 with ammo and a heat sink. Only 4 more heat per turn for 40 damage vs 25 with the added bonus of indirect fire so you can actually take advantage of its max range.

The bigger ACs can be worth mounting - they're at least somewhat effective for the tonnage but still significantly less efficient in almost every metric than missiles. But the AC/2 is just trash compared to almost all other options.

Large Lasers and PPCs are indeed pretty bad because their rather unimpressive damage is simply not worth the excessive heat they generate.

Right now missiles are complete king in this game. Several different chassis when properly equipped primarily with missiles and a couple lasers to fill out tonnage can 1 cycle a distressing number of Heavy and Assault mechs.

And that's not even getting into the hilariously broken upgraded missiles you can find int eh campaign with the +damage PER MISSILE.

[Hunter Noventa]

I think I recall the devs mentioning they do want to do a Clan expansion at some point, so we'll see how they handle that. I'm not super into the Battletech lore or anything, I just love my big stompy robots.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Uh.... no. I've played BattleTech for a number of years. You're the one that appears to be the neophyte because you're not taking into account the full tonnage, heat and damage equation for the weapons.Really? I'll just... smile and nod. If that makes you feel any better.


The AC/2 in this game is one of the worst possible weapons to mount versus almost anything else because its tonnage requirement is WAY out of line with its damage/heat/range.

You're comparing the AC/2 to the Medium laser in this game? The AC/2 plus ammo that takes 7 tonnes? 7 Tonnes for ONE 25 damage shot a turn?Uhh... you forgot about the other two parts to the equation: heat and range. The AC/2 has the same heat generation as a machine gun (read: almost zero), and is the only weapon capable of outranging even an LRM system. And it packs a pretty decent punch. A better one than the original, at least. It is relevant in the part of the game it is found in: the early part. Where you are dealing with scouts. And 25 damage to a single location, at very high accuracy for very long range, is sufficient to strip armor on any given location. That Blackjack you are given is pure sniping and ranged fire support, and is excellent at stripping armor at long range against light and damaged medium mechs.

Granted, you aren't wanting to use it against heavy and assault mechs, but that's a whole 'nother dynamic.


Medium Lasers are relatively inefficient - they more serve the purpose of 'hmm I have a couple tonnes left over may as well put them in just to fill out a little more damage' rather than as a primary chassis loadout.Pardon while I wipe coffee off of my monitor...

Ahem. Perhaps you are unaware that the Medium Laser has the SINGLE HIGHEST DAMAGE PER TON RATIO in the entire GAME? Not to mention the best damage to heat ratio of any energy weapon. So... what's that again about relatively inefficient?


And yet for the same tonnage as an AC/2 you could mount 2 Medium Lasers and 5 heat sinks. Double the damage and the same heat when firing - plus the extra 15 heat dissipation when you're not firing. Lower range can be a factor but since the AC requires direct line of sight means you're not generally in a position to take advantage of much of that long range.And you'll quarter your range, and STILL build up heat. Your point?

Do keep in mind that range has two uses: reaching out and fragging someone from halfway across the map, and two... it also increases your short and medium range for that weapon, making it FAR easier to hit it at ranges that other weapon systems are at extreme range. You almost cannot miss with an AC/2 unless they choke up on you and into minimum range, which is where your four medium lasers on the Blackjack come in handy.


Or you could, once gain, take the same 7 tonnage as the AC/2 plus ammo, and mount an LRM10 with ammo and a heat sink. Only 4 more heat per turn for 40 damage vs 25 with the added bonus of indirect fire so you can actually take advantage of its max range.Okay, here's another very neophyte mistake you are making. LRM's don't hit with all of their missiles every shot, they only hit with some of them. So your comparison is actually way off. They deal roughly the same damage in any viable combat scenario, with a 4 heat tradoff against indirect fire capability.

Second off, and another mistake players new to the tabletop/TBS version frequently make, is the difference between a missile system and a direct-fire system, which is to say the LRM can act like a shotgun, hitting many different hit locations, while the AC's and energy weapons do all their damage to a single location. This is a CRITICAL difference in weapon behavior, because against a fully armored mech, you don't want to pepper it all over with missiles, you want to punch a couple of holes first, THEN start peppering it with missiles, bringing up the potential for some crits. AC/2 will punch that hole in light mechs, and the AC/5 can even do so against some medium mechs. To a single location. Your LRM/10 might hit five or six times, and each missile doing 4 damage across the board. Useless, unless some of those locations have already been stripped of armor.


The bigger ACs can be worth mounting - they're at least somewhat effective for the tonnage but still significantly less efficient in almost every metric than missiles. But the AC/2 is just trash compared to almost all other options.You are welcome to your opinion. I would have agreed in the 3025 tabletop version, in that version the AC/2 did literally 2 points of damage, to compare to Medium Laser's 5 damage. But in this game, they've been beefed up to be extremely competitive.


Large Lasers and PPCs are indeed pretty bad because their rather unimpressive damage is simply not worth the excessive heat they generate.Yes and no. Take a look at the tonnage and crit slots. Like you were talking about earlier when comparing against the AC's. Yes, they do lots of heat, but they also do lots of damage to a single hit location at a good range, making them excellent to try to strip armor off of a single location for follow-up attacks to exploit. Obviously, you don't want to sport *many* of them, but a mech with an AC/10 and PPC in tandem can dish out a distressing amount of damage to one or two locations, which can easily punch through even an Assault's armor on a limb, from range, without nearly the overheat of two PPC's but at the same time being able to mount them both and have relevant amounts of armor and heat sinks.

You seem to be looking at individual weapon systems and grading them individually without looking at their role in combat. I suggest you revise this.


Right now missiles are complete king in this game. Several different chassis when properly equipped primarily with missiles and a couple lasers to fill out tonnage can 1 cycle a distressing number of Heavy and Assault mechs.Oh sure, Missiles can be very strong, but you are overestimating their effectiveness. Granted, the stability system gave them a hefty increase in effectiveness, however without something capable of punching holes with single-location damage, missiles are a brute-force approach to destroying mechs, and will require far more salvos to kill a mech than those that are supported with single-location punches before hand.


And that's not even getting into the hilariously broken upgraded missiles you can find int eh campaign with the +damage PER MISSILE.Or the even more broken +50% crit chance. But then, you also get bonus damage AC/20's too. All of the ++ weapons are hilariously broken in their own way.

[Kaptin Keen]

This is all very educational. I'm ordering a new gaming computer, just to see who's right here =D

[Triaxx]

How much heavier is the armor on a Heavy/Assault Mech compared to a medium? I haven't really seen any to know.

I'm wondering if a mech with lots of AC/2's might be worth it's weight until I can field comparable mechs to what the enemy turns up with.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How much heavier is the armor on a Heavy/Assault Mech compared to a medium? I haven't really seen any to know.

I'm wondering if a mech with lots of AC/2's might be worth it's weight until I can field comparable mechs to what the enemy turns up with.

Lots? Not really. For the same reason loading up all energy weapons without heat sinks to offset is a bad idea, loading up too many AC's is similarly a bad idea because of weight. You typically want to pair ballistic and energy together.

For example, an AC/5 and PPC working in tandem is enough to threaten even Heavy mechs, because the AC is cool enough and the PPC light enough that they offset each other's weaknesses.

Take the Blackjack. Pair of AC/2's is pretty good for the targets you are given in the early game: vehicles and light mechs, and the occasional turret. And the 4x ML's are pretty bog-standard close-support setup, although hot as hell if you don't manage your heat well. This will stand you in good stead until you get the Argo.

Once you start consistently running into mediums and heavies, however, you're going to want to replace one or both of the AC/2's with AC/5's. Either 2x AC/5, 2x ML, and no jump jets or 1x AC/5, 2x ML, 1x SRM/6. All ammo-based systems get one ton of ammo each. The first option gives you a bigger punch, but lacks mobility. The second has less ranged options, with the single AC/5, but is more of a brawler. Both are more heat efficient than the stock Blackjack you start with.

[Jama7301]

Sad day. The game runs, but any cutscene I get is just a black screen with the audio playing and subtitles. I'll have to do some diving later today to figure out if it's because my computer isn't up to spec, or if there are some settings I'm missing.

Got to create my basic character and mech though, so that's a start.

[Hunter Noventa]

Sad day. The game runs, but any cutscene I get is just a black screen with the audio playing and subtitles. I'll have to do some diving later today to figure out if it's because my computer isn't up to spec, or if there are some settings I'm missing.

Got to create my basic character and mech though, so that's a start.

Try updating your video drivers, I've heard of a few people having trouble in that area with the game.

[The Glyphstone]

So I want to get into the proper mood for the game, what are people's favorites amongst the published Battletech novels (and which ones to avoid like the steaming heaps of plague they are)?

[Jama7301]

Try updating your video drivers, I've heard of a few people having trouble in that area with the game.

I was hoping it wasn't that. My GPU and Drivers are cursed. Whenever I install or update them, some other program stops working, haha.

Thanks for the heads up.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So I want to get into the proper mood for the game, what are people's favorites amongst the published Battletech novels (and which ones to avoid like the steaming heaps of plague they are)?

Uhhh... most of the books are... well... best forgotten. But if you want, look up the Grey Death Legion series, starting with Decision at Thunder Rift. He actually starts off in a Locust, and manages to show off Infantry with SRM/2 Inferno forcing a pilot eject. Which is pretty cool.

[The Glyphstone]

Sadly, GDL books I still remember reading. Decent heroes, terrible mercenaries.

[Aotrs Commander]

I vaguely recall the frst ones with the Clans (Michel J Stackpole as I recall) were okay, but I only read 'em once long ago.



Myself, on hearing this was coming out, I went and replayed MechCommander 2 (with a fair bit of faff and in the end playing in windowed mode, because I want my movies dammit) and even started playing the tabletop again. For a given value of "paste BT shooting and damage on top of Maneouvre Group's round sequence," at any rate. (Standing joke: BT equipment is actually less advanced than real-world armour used in MG's normal modern period in many cases, almost as bad as when we play Judge Dredd D20 and we have to force ourselves to remember the distant future is well behind modern computer technology...!)

And yes, I am one of the terrible people that got into BT because of the cartoon, I like my double heat sinks (laser heat sinks if I can get 'em) and while we mock the clans to the point of having a table of randomly generated [Adjective] [Noun], they do have really cool kit and Madcat is still best Mech.

(Yes, I'mma still call it Madcat.)



I'm slightly holding off on this though, as I'm not really short of things to play at the moment (having spent most of te last six weeks or so playing Witcher 3) and it seems like waiting for a patch or two might not be a terrible idea. (I ain't even checked the specs of the game actually. but I did just do an upgrade...)

[Drasius]

How much heavier is the armor on a Heavy/Assault Mech compared to a medium? I haven't really seen any to know.

I'm wondering if a mech with lots of AC/2's might be worth it's weight until I can field comparable mechs to what the enemy turns up with.

Roughly 1200'ish total armour on a heavy compared to ~800'ish on a medium. The difference is pretty stark. I'd strongly advise slumming around, doing a bunch of contracts and ignoring the story missions early as there's quite the difficulty spike once you get the Argo (or even getting the Argo for some people).

Given how heavy AC/2's are, "lots" is going to mean 2 on a single mech, and even then, there's not many that have the hardpoints for it. If you want to strip evasion, LRM 5's are probably a better choice. Given the low armour on the OpFor early on though, sending out 2x 25 damage shots at "short" range to boost your odds of a hit is still pretty good if you're hanging back and letting something else do your spotting.


Sad day. The game runs, but any cutscene I get is just a black screen with the audio playing and subtitles. I'll have to do some diving later today to figure out if it's because my computer isn't up to spec, or if there are some settings I'm missing.

Got to create my basic character and mech though, so that's a start.

Have a squizz on the forums (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/battletech.994/) as from what I gather, it's a codec issue for some, a driver issue for others and a select few have another, as yet unidentified issue.

Edit: Opt in beta patch was just released to fix some of these issues, so maybe give that a bash?


So I want to get into the proper mood for the game, what are people's favorites amongst the published Battletech novels (and which ones to avoid like the steaming heaps of plague they are)?

Depends on era, but as always, Sarna has you covered - There's a list here (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/List_of_BattleTech_print_novels) of all the B-Tech novels and their rough timeline setting. If you want to stay with 3025'ish, your pool is limited, but Wolves on the Border is pretty decent and the Grey Death Legion trilogy (as others have mentioned) is ... period appropriate (though I didn't like them much). The Warrior trilogy is post 3025 but pre 4th war and is one of the better examples of the novels (and written by Stackpole, who is/was/is the "main" author for B-Tech).

If you don't want to stick to 3025'ish, then the Blood of Kerensky trilogy (again, by Stackpole) is pretty good and deals with the invasion of the clans and details a lot of Phelan Kell's capture/absorbtion/rise to power. Main Event (and the follow-up D.R.T.) deals with a ragtag group of mercs struggling to make ends meet that's probably the closest in tone to the games band of misfits. Blood of Heros is actually not terrible if you liked the original Grey Death stuff. Assumption of Risk deals more with Kai Allard-Laio and spends a bunch of time on Solaris VII, and if you like the Solaris VII thing, then I'd highly recommend Illusions of Victory as (IMHO), it's the best of the B-Tech novels. Binding Force isn't bad if you barrack for House Lio and want the Cappies to have a win for once, and Threads of Ambition/Killing Fields deal with winning back the St Ives compact and are also pretty good.

Twighlight of the Clans (8 parts) has some of my favourite books in it, but unless you are already passingly familiar with the universe, I don't know that you'd get quite the same enjoyment as it weaves a lot of threads together in telling the story of Operation Serpent and the aftermath. The first book, Exodus Road, is both quite good on it's own and won't require too much knowledge of the universe to appreciate.

As for what to skip, well, we don't talk about Far Country for good reasons. Close Quarters, Hearts of Chaos and Black Dragon will be love it or hate it due to the focus on the Mary Sue infantry character, though IIRC, Black Dragon wasn't terrible. I don't recall anything good to say about Star Lord either, which is a shame as the premise was interesting, the periphery setting had lots of potential and the FWL doesn't really get any focus, so it was quite the let down.

I can't comment on the post-jihad dork dark age stuff since the WoB jihad killed the setting off for me, so I stick to everything before the end of the FedCom civil war.

Edit: There's still lots of other books beyond those mentioned however, so if you see stuff that's not on either list but sounds cool, go nuts, none of them are bad, just not great like the ones listed. Be aware that the entire setting runs heavily on Space Opera, so if you don't mind that, all will be well.

[Olinser]

Really? I'll just... smile and nod. If that makes you feel any better.

Uhh... you forgot about the other two parts to the equation: heat and range. The AC/2 has the same heat generation as a machine gun (read: almost zero), and is the only weapon capable of outranging even an LRM system. And it packs a pretty decent punch. A better one than the original, at least. It is relevant in the part of the game it is found in: the early part. Where you are dealing with scouts. And 25 damage to a single location, at very high accuracy for very long range, is sufficient to strip armor on any given location. That Blackjack you are given is pure sniping and ranged fire support, and is excellent at stripping armor at long range against light and damaged medium mechs.

Granted, you aren't wanting to use it against heavy and assault mechs, but that's a whole 'nother dynamic.

Pardon while I wipe coffee off of my monitor...

Ahem. Perhaps you are unaware that the Medium Laser has the SINGLE HIGHEST DAMAGE PER TON RATIO in the entire GAME? Not to mention the best damage to heat ratio of any energy weapon. So... what's that again about relatively inefficient?

And you'll quarter your range, and STILL build up heat. Your point?

Do keep in mind that range has two uses: reaching out and fragging someone from halfway across the map, and two... it also increases your short and medium range for that weapon, making it FAR easier to hit it at ranges that other weapon systems are at extreme range. You almost cannot miss with an AC/2 unless they choke up on you and into minimum range, which is where your four medium lasers on the Blackjack come in handy.

Okay, here's another very neophyte mistake you are making. LRM's don't hit with all of their missiles every shot, they only hit with some of them. So your comparison is actually way off. They deal roughly the same damage in any viable combat scenario, with a 4 heat tradoff against indirect fire capability.

Second off, and another mistake players new to the tabletop/TBS version frequently make, is the difference between a missile system and a direct-fire system, which is to say the LRM can act like a shotgun, hitting many different hit locations, while the AC's and energy weapons do all their damage to a single location. This is a CRITICAL difference in weapon behavior, because against a fully armored mech, you don't want to pepper it all over with missiles, you want to punch a couple of holes first, THEN start peppering it with missiles, bringing up the potential for some crits. AC/2 will punch that hole in light mechs, and the AC/5 can even do so against some medium mechs. To a single location. Your LRM/10 might hit five or six times, and each missile doing 4 damage across the board. Useless, unless some of those locations have already been stripped of armor.

You are welcome to your opinion. I would have agreed in the 3025 tabletop version, in that version the AC/2 did literally 2 points of damage, to compare to Medium Laser's 5 damage. But in this game, they've been beefed up to be extremely competitive.

Yes and no. Take a look at the tonnage and crit slots. Like you were talking about earlier when comparing against the AC's. Yes, they do lots of heat, but they also do lots of damage to a single hit location at a good range, making them excellent to try to strip armor off of a single location for follow-up attacks to exploit. Obviously, you don't want to sport *many* of them, but a mech with an AC/10 and PPC in tandem can dish out a distressing amount of damage to one or two locations, which can easily punch through even an Assault's armor on a limb, from range, without nearly the overheat of two PPC's but at the same time being able to mount them both and have relevant amounts of armor and heat sinks.

You seem to be looking at individual weapon systems and grading them individually without looking at their role in combat. I suggest you revise this.

Oh sure, Missiles can be very strong, but you are overestimating their effectiveness. Granted, the stability system gave them a hefty increase in effectiveness, however without something capable of punching holes with single-location damage, missiles are a brute-force approach to destroying mechs, and will require far more salvos to kill a mech than those that are supported with single-location punches before hand.

Or the even more broken +50% crit chance. But then, you also get bonus damage AC/20's too. All of the ++ weapons are hilariously broken in their own way.


If you're going to be condescending try executing basic reading comprehension. The exact part you are quoting says explicitly that the tonnage is out of line with its damage/heat/range. Because it's almost like I've already considered it. The AC/2 is an insanely tonnage inefficient weapon because it has terrible damage and tonnage for its range/heat benefits and its simply outclassed by other weapons with the same ranges. The other ACs are not, they have their uses in some loadouts. But the AC/2 most definitely is outclassed in every possible role by another weapon.

To utilize that range requires you to have unobstructed line of site - which is extremely tricky on a lot of maps.

And 25 damage will strip armor? What? Even most light mechs start standard with 30+ armor on any torso location (and not hard at all to add 10 to all locations) so at best you're only stripping armor on the arm - which is most definitely not where you want to be hitting. 25 damage you have to hit 2 shots on the same location to strip. And if that's what your doing MLasers are superior, because you can load up with more of them and heat sinks and do more damage for the same tonnage with only a slight increase in heat (climate modified, of course).

And yes, medium lasers have the highest damage per ton. They also have the highest heat per ton. What was that about 'neophyte mistakes' you keep condescendingly mentioning? That's where the full tonnage/damage/heat/range equation comes in. Medium lasers are quite good weapons in some situations - but you're limited by hard points and heat rather than tonnage. Don't get me wrong - they're pretty good weapons. But they're only one part of a loadout. If you're building a close range mech a SRM/ML hybrid or heavier AC/MLs will be better than pure MLs.

Damage concentration is a definite bonus of heavier ACs - but 25 damage in one shot isn't particularly impactful against anything but the lightest mechs - who will tend to have their evasion extremely high giving you a pretty respectable chance of not hitting anything. Which I notice you've conveniently avoided mentioning every time you're talking about the AC/2 hitting light mechs. If that's what you're doing as already mentioned, take MLs for the same tonnage and get more shots so you'll actually hit them reliably.

If you want damage concentration spend the 2 tonnes and upgrade to an AC/5. 45 damage in one location actually WILL compromise the armor of most light mechs and you're still going to almost always be in range or able to get in range easily - and 45 damage can be concerning to a decent number of non-light mechs as well.

Because as I already stated, the higher AC's are perfectly useable. Bigger ACs you get a big shot of damage on a single location that can potentially cause a breach. 25 damage isn't breaching anything you actually can reliably hit. AC/20s especially are extremely good for finishing blows after you've knocked down a mech with missiles - free call out center torso with an AC/20 and a couple incidental weapons will finish most knocked down mechs. But the AC/2 has ridiculous weight for weak damage compared to all other long range options.

And yes, I am very aware that LRMs don't hit every shot. The 'neophyte mistake' that YOU are making is that neither does any other weapon. The difference is that % to hit means LRMs give guaranteed damage each turn because their misses are only a portion of the whole, while an AC you miss 100% of the damage. 40 vs 25 is an accurate representation of their relative damage levels. Over the long run all weapons will miss the same % of their shots and the damage ratio remains the same - the LRM damage is significantly superior. The missed LRM shots is actually a point against the AC, because even at high % to hit you have a chance of getting completely zeroed out, while the balance of probability means LRMs will always hit with a fairly reliable % of their damage based on your % to hit. That's the risk of AC weapons - a single miss can be catastrophic because that's a huge chunk of a mech's damage that's not landing that turn.

Certainly that damage is spread out, and is a negative against the LRM, but the damage is spread out on every other weapon as well, balance of probability triumphs on smaller damage shots. But % is key, and the bulk will be generally concentrated in the torso (check the hit % table) unless you're firing from the side, in which case they'll be concentrated on the arm/torso on that side. AC/2 hits are spread out as well - and run the risk of their entire mediocre damage hitting an arm that doesn't even have weapons, or a leg that isn't going to crumble without multiple hits.

The other 'neophyte mistake' that you are making is completely discounting the stability damage of LRM platforms. LRMs will cause a good amount of stability damage buildup, and dedicated platforms can reliably achieve regular knockdowns, while AC/2s will not. Heavier ACs will cause respectable stability, but AC/2s the amount is negligible.

The additional 'neophyte mistake' that you're making is that you're trying to individually point out how the AC/2 is superior to some weapons in some situations. This is true - no weapon is the true 100% best choice - but there is no actual situation where the AC/2 is anywhere close to the best choice to accomplish something.

Because I'm not just looking at individual weapons. I'm looking at mech buildouts and what they're built to accomplish. The AC/2 has no place in any current mech buildout. If you're building a long range platform the stacked LRM platform (possibly with some lasers depending on how the hardpoints/tonnage shake out) beats it in almost every conceivable way. If you want damage concentration but can't afford the tonnage of the AC 20 or 10, you take the AC/5 because you'll then actually get somewhat worrying damage on a single location at still respectable range. If you're trying to build a close combat fighter you want some combination of SRMs, AC 5/10/20 and Medium Lasers (many forum posts in many locations have already been written about this argument and what the best platform and best ratio of these is for a close combat killer).

[Olinser]

What weapons are you finding useless? Traditionally the only crap weapons were the AC/2 and /5 (as Shneeky pointed out) and they've been overtuned adjusted nicely. The only other offender that springs to mind is the LRM 10 vs the 5, but then, breaching shot and hardpoint restrictions are things, so while heavily overshadowed, it's not totally useless. Everything else that I can think of is usable, though I'm still not sold on the LL being very good.

Re: MechCommander being bad? You can shut your whore mouth my good Sir.

IF (big if) they do a clan X-pac instead of the 4th succession war, the war of 3039, CapCon/FWL invasion of the FedRats, Chaos March or FedCom Civil War, I hope it's a clan vs clan thing (ie war of refusal) rather than yet another IS vs Clan thing (3050, Falcon invasion, Operation Bulldog), though setting it up so that you're fighting as the clanners in the 3050 invasion would be a possible route since it's easy to excuse away why you're only bringing a single star or less of 'mechs vs a company or more of enemies. IS vs clan poses problems not only in balance, but also of lore - not only were the number of merc units that didn't get their poo very thoroughly pushed in able to be counted on 1 hand that had had a nasty bandsaw related incident, you could and would retire the instant you salvaged a clan mech due to the IS houses either buying you out or killing you for it. On top of that, B-Tech has a rather fractured base in that many people see the clans as a jumping the shark moment and would avoid it because of that (same thing for the WoB jihad era).

Oh I'm really hoping for a clan vs clan as well - this also eliminated the need to completely re-balance IS weapons. If its Clan vs Clan of course everybody is using Clan tech, and for multiplayer just like picking Stock or Custom mechs right now, you pick whether you're fighting with IS weapons or Clan weapons so they only need to be balanced against their own set and not each other.

From a story standpoint I think its really ripe for somebody to explore inter-Clan conflict before the actual invasion of the Inner Sphere, rather than the actual full clan invasion. Although there's certainly plenty of room to follow a less-well known Clan invasion like the Ice Hellions or the Fire Mandrills, rather than the big invasions of the Wolves or Jade Falcons and whatnot.

You could do a great campaign where you start off as a fresh Clan warrior, fight your way internally in the clan to get command of a Star, fight against some neighboring clans in some skirmishes, return to your Clan to fight for a Bloodname, and then lead an invasion/defense against another big clan in an extended war.

[Drasius]

nerdrage


nerdrage

Hey now, don't make me turn this jumpship around! I swear, we'll go straight back to Liao space and you can both go explain to the death commandos why you're turning a nice, civil thread about an awesome game into a bickering, name-calling slap fight.

Times are tough when I'm the voice of reason around here.

[Triaxx]

I've tried being the voice of reason, it doesn't help much.

[Kaptin Keen]

Honestly though, I feel there is only one way to settle this. You both have the game. It has pvp. You need to fight it out on the fields of honor!

Don't forget to upload to youtube.

=)

[Tehnar]

Is there a multiplayer mode? So you could test your theories...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sadly, multiplayer requires a Paradox account and DRM. Plus it doesn't like to play well in WINE. Maybe once they release their promised Linux release.

It is largely a difference in basic assumptions and philosophy. Which is better? Mu, the question is invalid. He enjoys his style, I enjoy mine. There is no 'wrong' way to play the game.

[The Glyphstone]

Because someone will link it eventually, so we might as well get it out of the way.

https://xkcd.com/386/

[Kaptin Keen]

Darn it. Without knowing either way, I'd still have rooted for the AC/2 camp, cause autocannons are cool.

I remember the AC/2 being really crap in Mercenaries, though. Just didn't seem to do anything. Not that I ever did the math, that's not how I play games. I just figured out a massive laser alpha strike to the legs would take out pretty much everything while not quite shutting down my reactor. That's all I needed to win =)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Darn it. Without knowing either way, I'd still have rooted for the AC/2 camp, cause autocannons are cool.

I remember the AC/2 being really crap in Mercenaries, though. Just didn't seem to do anything. Not that I ever did the math, that's not how I play games. I just figured out a massive laser alpha strike to the legs would take out pretty much everything while not quite shutting down my reactor. That's all I needed to win =)

Yea, in tabletop, the AC/2 was utter garbage. It did a flat 2 damage, which was less than half of the ML's 5 damage. However, in this version, the damage of the AC/2 has been massively boosted, relative to other weapon systems. Coupled with the fact that it has stupid amounts of ammo per ton and almost zero heat, you can afford to literally fire it every turn ever, and its extreme range gives it bonuses on attack rolls when NOT clear on the other side of the map (as long as they aren't inside your minimum range, a good Tactics pilot can mitigate this), which means it's going to typically have better targeting solutions than other weapons in most range categories.

Granted, something like a Steiner Scout Lance is going to shrug it off, but for dealing with annoying light mechs like a Panther or vehicles, it works out pretty well.

[9mm]

Darn it. Without knowing either way, I'd still have rooted for the AC/2 camp, cause autocannons are cool.

FOUND THE DAVION! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3iw_AttNU)

on table top the AC/2 is the farthest reaching weapon in the game, but since Battletech is designed to make players get close and melee, the damage is pitiful, but still very good at destroying no mech targets. As well as making making the Kraken something that exists.


However, in this version, the damage of the AC/2 has been massively boosted, relative to other weapon systems. I wouldn't say massively boosted, the table top equivlents would be a range of AC 5/10/15/20. which had been a home rule in my play circles for years before RACs were introduced.

[Triaxx]

So first, interesting article: https://www.pcgamer.com/battletech-lore/?utm_content=buffer436f1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb
Basically PCGamer talking to the design lead for Battletech.

Distilled version, they set it when they did and where they did to avoid the normal IS nonsense, and allow new players to arrive without having to absorb the entire previously existing lore to understand things. But they set it in a place and time when they can advance to Clan invasion if there's enough interest.

I'd happily play for the AC/2 side of the argument.

[Drasius]

FOUND THE DAVION! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3iw_AttNU)

It still boggles my mind that people think that the FWL is closer to 'Murica in space than the Feddies just because the FWL is the closest thing to a democracy in the setting (and it's still a pretty long way away from that). The FedSuns has quite a few standouts that are synonymous with the US, like:
- Freedom being the official motto for the FedSuns
- Unhealthy obsession with ballistics
- Largest military
- Massive divide between rich and poor
- Large amount of uneducated backwater hicks

While the FWL has literally nothing other than an election system that doesn't work and turns the FWL into a joke. If anything, the FWL is closer to the UN than anything else, it's a bunch of incompetants with a noble goal that bickers forever and accomplishes nothing.


So first, interesting article: https://www.pcgamer.com/battletech-lore/?utm_content=buffer436f1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb
Basically PCGamer talking to the design lead for Battletech.

I find it a bit worrying that there's a number of rather glaring innaccuracies from the guy who basically wrote a lot of this setting. No HPG network? Kerensky leaving 100 years ago? Clanners 50 years away when we're in 3050? Very odd.

[Jama7301]

And attempting to update my graphics driver messed up my computer. Awesome. AMD is conspiring to keep me from my big ol' mechs.

[9mm]

It still boggles my mind that people think that the FWL is closer to 'Murica in space than the Feddies just because the FWL is the closest thing to a democracy in the setting (and it's still a pretty long way away from that). The FedSuns has quite a few standouts that are synonymous with the US, like:
- Freedom being the official motto for the FedSuns
- Unhealthy obsession with ballistics
- Largest military
- Massive divide between rich and poor
- Large amount of uneducated backwater hicks

While the FWL has literally nothing other than an election system that doesn't work and turns the FWL into a joke. If anything, the FWL is closer to the UN than anything else, it's a bunch of incompetants with a noble goal that bickers forever and accomplishes nothing.


mostly because people don't want to except the in lore statement that the majority of US and Russia colonized planets were the closest to earth and therefore the basis of the Terran Hegemin and thus just gone. Fed Suns are as much French as they are US and British.



I find it a bit worrying that there's a number of rather glaring innaccuracies from the guy who basically wrote a lot of this setting. No HPG network? Kerensky leaving 100 years ago? Clanners 50 years away when we're in 3050? Very odd.
He jokes about how he should be remembering things better, and he gives a decent rough overview, though the game is set in 3025 so the clans are 25 years away.

[Olinser]

Is there a multiplayer mode? So you could test your theories...

I have already. The only ACs useful in current multiplayer are heavy ones. I haven't actually lost a MPlayer game yet using LRM platforms with a couple lighter jump jet close combat closers in front (seriously jump jets are WAY too good right now for how relatively little weight it takes to get huge jumps), though I freely admit I've only managed to play a few games because there are some hideous bugs in the Multiplayer and not many people are playing it right now so its actually pretty tough to get a game.

Not to mention a large number of games aren't actually finished because people plugpull before the game is over and you don't actually get credit for a win/loss - and this is REALLY annoying for achievement hunters like myself. I'm going to need to find somebody to actually regularly play games against if I ever want 100 wins.

3 games in a row now when the mechs got to be 4v2 in my favor people have just disconnected. I think I've only actually FINISHED 1 or 2 games of actual MP right now.

Then it has a REALLY annoying effect built in that if you select a custom lance that doesn't qualify for the current game restrictions rather than telling you to pick another one it removes mechs so it does qualify - forcing you to later go back and put it back together. And a couple times I've had to quit lobbies because it straight lost my saved designs... then as soon as I looked in the mech bay there were still there.

[gooddragon1]

Because someone will link it eventually, so we might as well get it out of the way.

https://xkcd.com/386/

You gave me false hopes of a battletech related xkcd comic :(

[Kaptin Keen]

I'd happily play for the AC/2 side of the argument.

Trial by Champions. Tyrion Lannistar would approve. As do I. Do we have a champion for the opposing side?

I'd do it, but I'm terrible at pvp, and my computer can't really pull the load.

[huttj509]

Ok, that is some straight up bull.

First contract mission, 4th mission total counting the "tutorial." Went great, knocked down a mech, took out its legs from across the lake, no problem.

Right after that shot the dropship lands immediately, no indicator, crushes my Blackjack, killing the pilot inside.

Edit: So, it turns out that when you move to a point, if the dropship's gonna land there there's a small red circle around the point. If you don't know what to look for, I feel this is waaaay too easy to miss.

[houlio]

Ok, that is some straight up bull.

First contract mission, 4th mission total counting the "tutorial." Went great, knocked down a mech, took out its legs from across the lake, no problem.

Right after that shot the dropship lands immediately, no indicator, crushes my Blackjack, killing the pilot inside.

Edit: So, it turns out that when you move to a point, if the dropship's gonna land there there's a small red circle around the point. If you don't know what to look for, I feel this is waaaay too easy to miss.

I think (https://youtu.be/pyamRHYQXig?t=50s)this is appropriate for here.

Anyways, my computer can't run the game, and I have no way to change that for another year and a half. I have been watching a lot of Quill18 on youtube to get my fix so far. Of course, having more let's plays would always be a good thing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

CohhCarnage has been doing a lot of streaming of Battletech. He... learns a lot of things the hard way, but he DOES learn. He's not so bad that it is painful to watch, although he does make his share of "DAMNIT! DON'T DO THAT YOU FREEKING MORON!" moments. At least at first. It takes him a while to figure some things out, so it's good for people new to the genre to watch and learn as he learns.

[Triaxx]

I can play, but the game chugs hard enough I don't want to try recording it. So no LP from me. I know Arumba's cut some chunks from his Livestream to upload.

[Olinser]

Ok, that is some straight up bull.

First contract mission, 4th mission total counting the "tutorial." Went great, knocked down a mech, took out its legs from across the lake, no problem.

Right after that shot the dropship lands immediately, no indicator, crushes my Blackjack, killing the pilot inside.

Edit: So, it turns out that when you move to a point, if the dropship's gonna land there there's a small red circle around the point. If you don't know what to look for, I feel this is waaaay too easy to miss.

Yeah there's a few times in missions where various bad things happen on specific locations with not really super clear information - artillery strikes, dropships landing, locations exploding, sudden enemy mechs/vehicles spawning, etc.

[The Glyphstone]

Are there penalties for delaying story missions? Or can you faff around on side contracts whenever you like?

[Drasius]

Are there penalties for delaying story missions? Or can you faff around on side contracts whenever you like?

Absolutely no penalties for stalling out to faff around the periphery. In fact, I've got a feeling that this is what you're meant to do as some missions are much more difficult than expected if you simply do the story missions without building yourself up first. I'd strongly advising getting a heavy 'mech before doing Smithon for example as that's probably one of the most complained about missions so far. It's certainly doable with mediums and lights, but it's not easy, not by a long shot, especially not if you're freedy like most people and want that juicy bonus.

[Olinser]

Are there penalties for delaying story missions? Or can you faff around on side contracts whenever you like?

There are no penalties but the story missions tend to give extremely high rewards and a couple give you mechs or items that are almost impossible to get anywhere else - the Highlander with the pre-equipped Gauss rifle and double heat sinks, for instance.

[Drasius]

There are no penalties but the story missions tend to give extremely high rewards and a couple give you mechs or items that are almost impossible to get anywhere else

First: Spoilers
Second: Doing story missions also increases the difficulty of random missions (as does increasing your MRC rating)

[NeoVid]

Edit: So, it turns out that when you move to a point, if the dropship's gonna land there there's a small red circle around the point. If you don't know what to look for, I feel this is waaaay too easy to miss.

Being destroyed by things you didn't know to look for is what this game is all about!


So I want to get into the proper mood for the game, what are people's favorites amongst the published Battletech novels (and which ones to avoid like the steaming heaps of plague they are)?

Very few of the books are set in the 3025 period, despite it being the default for the tabletop game. The Gray Death Legion trilogy is in that time. I've only happened to find one of the three in that trilogy, but it's one of the novels I enjoyed the most. Most of the fiction takes place after the Clan Invasion, which makes the setting a very different place. My personal favorites are the three by Victor Milan, as he's one of my favorite writers anyway. As people have said, Stackpole's novels were the ones to cover the main continuity of the setting.

Incidentally, the animated series, canonically, is an in-setting Federated Commonwealth cartoon, using an inaccurate retelling of Adam Steiner's efforts during the Clan invasion as a propaganda piece. I always did wonder how a series that used enough research to dredge up Franklin Kurita and Ciro Ramirez from the setting lore was so inaccurate about the everyday things...

The Dark Age era is too far away to be relevant to this video game in this thread, and it's where I lost track of the lore. Despite playing a lot of Dark Age, this is where I started to lose interest in the setting, since what I really wanted to know about was the Republic of the Sphere era, but that was skipped over entirely. The longest period of peace in the Inner Sphere since the Star League, and it was glossed over. Being hit over the head with a reminder the setting exists for the wargame, despite everything else that could be done in it, was kind of depressing.

Speaking of the lore, one thing I like about the game is that it's willing to pass up some game balance in exchange for setting accuracy. Almost no 'Mechs were optimally designed in the first place, Inner Sphere technology has been degenerating for 300 years, and there aren't enough 'Mechs to go around. I'd assume those ++ weapons that you find are something like intact Star League era gear that should basically curbstomp any of the standard 3025 gear. Especially considering "standard 3025 gear" means "pieced together from wreckage of something made centuries ago."

[The Glyphstone]

Period-accurate isn't so much a priority as the general feel of being a giant stompy robot pilot. So it sounds like Stackpole is the prime rib of the Battletech menu.

[Gnoman]

I'd assume those ++ weapons that you find are something like intact Star League era gear that should basically curbstomp any of the standard 3025 gear. Especially considering "standard 3025 gear" means "pieced together from wreckage of something made centuries ago."

It is more "we've implemented the differences the TRO fluff mentioned regarding different models of PPC or Autocannon that was glossed over in the tabletop game."

In the 3025 era, most Level 1 weapons and components were being built new. It was the BattleMechs themselves, and especially the fusion engines, that were either ancestral relics or being built by automated LosTech factories operating on the "pour components in one end and hope shiny new BattleMechs come out the other end." This, too, is well-represented in the TRO fluff - for example, the Panther is an iconic Draconis Combine 'Mech - because by 3025 the DC owned the only Panther factory in the galaxy.



In game news, I got lucky with headshots (two headcaps in two turns!) on an important mission, and had the option to salvage either a complete Jagermech or a complete Trebuchet (but couldn't take both, since getting a whole 'mech requires three salvage slots, and I only had 4 "priority" slots. After some debate, I took the Trebuchet, because I've always liked the baby Catapult. In this incarnation, where an AC/2 is really an AC/5 and an AC/5 is really an AC/9, the Jagermech isn't a terrible design the way it is in TT, but I decided that the missile boat would be more useful.

[Drasius]

Period-accurate isn't so much a priority as the general feel of being a giant stompy robot pilot. So it sounds like Stackpole is the prime rib of the Battletech menu.

Stackpole was enough of a backbone of the series that part of the higher backer rewards was to get a 4-part novel written by him and even have a character included in said novel for some of the really high backer tiers (which sold out in minutes).

He stopped writing for B-Tech many years ago and went over to write for the Star Wars EU where, from what I understand, he was widely praised for much the same reasons as why the B-Tech guys (mostly) loved him.

The one area that he deviates from the lore in is that his fusion reactors tend to fail rather violently, to the point where there's a special, optional rule (amonst many, many other optional rules) known as "Stackpoling" which means that engine destruction causes a rather strong explosion that can damage the surrounding mechs (and sometimes cause a chain reaction). Will be familiar to players of the older MechWarrior series since they exploded on death to save on animation.

[Olinser]

It is more "we've implemented the differences the TRO fluff mentioned regarding different models of PPC or Autocannon that was glossed over in the tabletop game."

In the 3025 era, most Level 1 weapons and components were being built new. It was the BattleMechs themselves, and especially the fusion engines, that were either ancestral relics or being built by automated LosTech factories operating on the "pour components in one end and hope shiny new BattleMechs come out the other end." This, too, is well-represented in the TRO fluff - for example, the Panther is an iconic Draconis Combine 'Mech - because by 3025 the DC owned the only Panther factory in the galaxy.



In game news, I got lucky with headshots (two headcaps in two turns!) on an important mission, and had the option to salvage either a complete Jagermech or a complete Trebuchet (but couldn't take both, since getting a whole 'mech requires three salvage slots, and I only had 4 "priority" slots. After some debate, I took the Trebuchet, because I've always liked the baby Catapult. In this incarnation, where an AC/2 is really an AC/5 and an AC/5 is really an AC/9, the Jagermech isn't a terrible design the way it is in TT, but I decided that the missile boat would be more useful.

Actually there are 2 variants of the Jagermech - and the JMG-A is one of the best missile boats, its the only non-Assault mech that has 4 missile slots and has 2 each of laser/AC/support weapon slots so you can customize it to what you want easily.

Its a little weird because the Jagermech A is actually a BETTER missile boat than the Catapult - the canonical 'missile boat' Inner Sphere mech.

[Olinser]

Period-accurate isn't so much a priority as the general feel of being a giant stompy robot pilot. So it sounds like Stackpole is the prime rib of the Battletech menu.

Kind of - he was definitely the most popular author, but the BattleTech franchise actually basically enforced authors sticking to the 'current' era of tabletop - so older novels were all in the pre-invasion Inner Sphere, a lot of the later stuff was the Clan Invasion, and then they forced everybody to write in the Dark Age (which was a DISASTER and lead to all novels stopping completely).

[factotum]

The longest period of peace in the Inner Sphere since the Star League, and it was glossed over. Being hit over the head with a reminder the setting exists for the wargame, despite everything else that could be done in it, was kind of depressing.


I'm not familiar with Battletech lore, but when you start talking about why a really long period of peace doesn't show up in a wargame--haven't you pretty much answered your own question? Peace means no big stompy robot battles and thus no game!

[Drasius]

I'm not familiar with Battletech lore, but when you start talking about why a really long period of peace doesn't show up in a wargame--haven't you pretty much answered your own question? Peace means no big stompy robot battles and thus no game!

Yes and no. Much like 40k, there is no such thing as peace among the Inner Sphere, only petty bickering, border raids and the laughter of the noble houses. On the off chance that there is peace for more than 20 seconds, you can always default to the clans as their default state is to raid each other and have ceremonial battles even for teh lulz basic trades.

The novels actually do a fair job of balancing combat, politics, character development and actually moving the story ahead. While some of them are almost a transcript of a tabletop game, there's more than 1 book that only has 1-2 chapters out of ~20 involving combat while the rest detail The Days of Our Lives in spaaaaaaace. Overall I'd say you get about 1/3rd each of combat/character driven exposition/political maneuvering.

You're not wrong that too much political maneuvering and no combat at all for 20+ books would be stretching the patience of much of the target audience though.

[Triaxx]

Probably why the game picked mercenaries. Even in peace there's always off the books missions, and also bandits with tanks, or occasional mechs.

Also, wow is killing a Shadowhawk time consuming.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Probably why the game picked mercenaries. Even in peace there's always off the books missions, and also bandits with tanks, or occasional mechs.

Also, wow is killing a Shadowhawk time consuming.

Depends on what you have to kill it with. SHD is very mobile, and has jump jets, so locking it up is going to be tricky. But stock SHD is pretty light on armor for its tonnage as it was designed as a light mech hunter and heavy scout.

Granted, if you've got a lance of mostly light mechs and a Blackjack, it's a bit more difficult. A lucky (or called shot) leg shot can make it a LOT easier to lock up.

[Drasius]

Probably why the game picked mercenaries. Even in peace there's always off the books missions, and also bandits with tanks, or occasional mechs.

Also, wow is killing a Shadowhawk time consuming.

Punch it. Physical assaults will often cause instability, resulting in lost evasion as well as removing guarded.

When in doubt, punch your target in the face. 60% of the time it works every time.

[Hunter Noventa]

Punch it. Physical assaults will often cause instability, resulting in lost evasion as well as removing guarded.

When in doubt, punch your target in the face. 60% of the time it works every time.

Also, stomping on tanks and other vehicles is by far the best way to deal with them.

[The Glyphstone]

When in doubt, punch your target in the face. 60% of the time it works every time.

This feels like a rule applicable outside of Battletech as well.

[Triaxx]

I was on a desert planet, so heat was an issue, and it had worked itself around to a position where there wasn't room to close in and melee it, but that it could slip back down the hill for a turn, which was extremely annoying. Fortunately, I worked around until I was in that narrow optimal range band for the Blackjack. 4 M Lasers and a pair of AC/2's makes quite the mess even of a mech as tough as that one.

Of course I also tweaked the Vindicator for an LRM-10 and L Laser instead of it's 5 and PPC, and then tweaked the Shadowhawk of my own to have an SRM-6 and one extra heat sink. And now I can fire all weapons in a desert without heat build up. Even after running jump jets the heat is barely enough to register on the bar.

[NeoVid]

I'm not familiar with Battletech lore, but when you start talking about why a really long period of peace doesn't show up in a wargame--haven't you pretty much answered your own question? Peace means no big stompy robot battles and thus no game!

Yes, but I hadn't realized it until that moment. So it finally hit me that the setting would actively avoid the things I was most interested in seeing, which mostly killed my interest.

[Gnoman]

Just had a mission that I don't think was possible to win. Was supposed to defend a base against raiders that were possibly supported by an off-world government. This involved four fairly heavily armed 'Mechs dropped in north of the base, with enemy reinforcements dropping in South about three or four turns in. These reinforcements were two lances of vehicles (one of which I never saw, but I think was an LRM carrier from the sheer amount of missiles it was spewing) supported by a second lance of medium 'mechs (tough ones, two - Griffin, Hunchback, Cicada, and one I never saw).


Either force would have been enough to slag the base if I focused on the other, and splitting my forces meant that I just couldn't kill the enemy fast enough to avert the destruction of the base.


I at least got half payment for "good faith failure", but I'm wondering if this was a deliberate "Kobayashi Maru" no-win setup.

[Drasius]

Just had a mission that I don't think was possible to win. Was supposed to defend a base against raiders that were possibly supported by an off-world government. This involved four fairly heavily armed 'Mechs dropped in north of the base, with enemy reinforcements dropping in South about three or four turns in. These reinforcements were two lances of vehicles (one of which I never saw, but I think was an LRM carrier from the sheer amount of missiles it was spewing) supported by a second lance of medium 'mechs (tough ones, two - Griffin, Hunchback, Cicada, and one I never saw).


Either force would have been enough to slag the base if I focused on the other, and splitting my forces meant that I just couldn't kill the enemy fast enough to avert the destruction of the base.


I at least got half payment for "good faith failure", but I'm wondering if this was a deliberate "Kobayashi Maru" no-win setup.


Some people have reported that the enemy will engage any unit that fired on them instead of going after the buildings, so with Multi-Target, it's possibly do-able, but I've had defence missions where the attackers would stubbornly ignore my guys and just keep hammering the base regardless, so, YMMV.

Sometimes you get bad intel and ****ty contracts and there's nothing you can do about it however, and that's by design. Sounds like it was going to be a fairly tough mission unless you had a bunch of heavies or better anyway, so I certainly don't think you can be too sad about failing that one.

[Gnoman]

Some people have reported that the enemy will engage any unit that fired on them instead of going after the buildings, so with Multi-Target, it's possibly do-able, but I've had defence missions where the attackers would stubbornly ignore my guys and just keep hammering the base regardless, so, YMMV.

Sometimes you get bad intel and ****ty contracts and there's nothing you can do about it however, and that's by design. Sounds like it was going to be a fairly tough mission unless you had a bunch of heavies or better anyway, so I certainly don't think you can be too sad about failing that one.

They ignored me completely once they had the buildings in range - I don't think the second force ever fired a shot at any of my units, so I just had a few points of internals from the initial engagement. I don't think I could have managed it unless I was killing two enemies per 'mech per turn. It sounds like it was deliberate, which is a rather nice touch. Wasn't even bad intel, since the contract warned of "extremely heavy opposition", just too much to deal with.

[Olinser]

They ignored me completely once they had the buildings in range - I don't think the second force ever fired a shot at any of my units, so I just had a few points of internals from the initial engagement. I don't think I could have managed it unless I was killing two enemies per 'mech per turn. It sounds like it was deliberate, which is a rather nice touch. Wasn't even bad intel, since the contract warned of "extremely heavy opposition", just too much to deal with.

What was the difficulty of the level relative to the tonnage you dropped? If you try to take contracts more than a 1/2 rating higher than your tonnage level you're dropping you're going to run into difficulty in any protect/prevent from escaping mission.

Alternately you just didn't have a good setup and took much more armor/ammo than necessary and not enough actual damage per turn. 2 vehicles per mech per turn is pretty easy to achieve - especially against medium and light vehicles 3 per turn isn't that tough to achieve with efficient damage setups and appropriate multi targeting. Going into protect missions with max armor on every mech is usually a big mistake.

Not massively overkilling vehicles is also key - Multi Target is a must-have skill for the campaign on almost everybody. When confronted with a lot of targets you want to multi target with your first 2 mechs with the minimum that you think will kill the target, then with your last 1-2 mechs you use what you need to ensure kills so they don't get to act.

When protecting objectives you may need to switch your target priority from normal missions. On a normal mission you target the biggest threat and make sure you bring it down. On an objective mission you target the biggest threat that is in a position to hit the objective - and yes this may mean taking it on the chin from a heavier mech firing on your guys, if it means cleaning up the fast movers already firing on the objective then going back and killing the bigger threat after it has shot your guys but before it gets to the objective.

Additionally making sure you take into account what order the enemy acts is key. If a fast mech has already fired on the objective, then you should focus your faster mechs on killing things that haven't fired yet, then go back at the end with your slow movers, and clean up the fast mech at the end of the turn. He still won't get to fire next turn and you may have been able to take out a slower threat before it fired at all.

The AI also does tend to fire on objectives when they're in range - but won't usually try to get that much closer when you engage them away from the objective. Sometimes you need to split your forces but instead of actually fighting, 1 mech sits there guarding away from the objective so they shoot him at 50% damage reduction while you kill everything else then come help it. That gives a lot longer to cleanup the first force to proceed to the second.

In the campaign Morale is a huge boost as well. Keeping your morale high means that you start the mission with 1 or even 2 Called Shots already able to be used. 2 consecutive called shots center torso should let you core out any mech that doesn't massively outweigh your lance (and if it does then you probably shouldn't have taken the mission in the first place).

[Gnoman]

What was the difficulty of the level relative to the tonnage you dropped? If you try to take contracts more than a 1/2 rating higher than your tonnage level you're dropping you're going to run into difficulty in any protect/prevent from escaping mission.

Alternately you just didn't have a good setup and took much more armor/ammo than necessary and not enough actual damage per turn. 2 vehicles per mech per turn is pretty easy to achieve - especially against medium and light vehicles 3 per turn isn't that tough to achieve with efficient damage setups and appropriate multi targeting. Going into protect missions with max armor on every mech is usually a big mistake.

Not massively overkilling vehicles is also key - Multi Target is a must-have skill for the campaign on almost everybody. When confronted with a lot of targets you want to multi target with your first 2 mechs with the minimum that you think will kill the target, then with your last 1-2 mechs you use what you need to ensure kills so they don't get to act.

When protecting objectives you may need to switch your target priority from normal missions. On a normal mission you target the biggest threat and make sure you bring it down. On an objective mission you target the biggest threat that is in a position to hit the objective - and yes this may mean taking it on the chin from a heavier mech firing on your guys, if it means cleaning up the fast movers already firing on the objective then going back and killing the bigger threat after it has shot your guys but before it gets to the objective.

Additionally making sure you take into account what order the enemy acts is key. If a fast mech has already fired on the objective, then you should focus your faster mechs on killing things that haven't fired yet, then go back at the end with your slow movers, and clean up the fast mech at the end of the turn. He still won't get to fire next turn and you may have been able to take out a slower threat before it fired at all.

The AI also does tend to fire on objectives when they're in range - but won't usually try to get that much closer when you engage them away from the objective. Sometimes you need to split your forces but instead of actually fighting, 1 mech sits there guarding away from the objective so they shoot him at 50% damage reduction while you kill everything else then come help it. That gives a lot longer to cleanup the first force to proceed to the second.

In the campaign Morale is a huge boost as well. Keeping your morale high means that you start the mission with 1 or even 2 Called Shots already able to be used. 2 consecutive called shots center torso should let you core out any mech that doesn't massively outweigh your lance (and if it does then you probably shouldn't have taken the mission in the first place).

It was a one and a half skull mission. I had the starting Blackjack and Vindicator (this is just after Weldry), plus a Trebuchet and a Shadow Hawk configured as a LRM boat. Pretty much the heaviest firepower I've even had a chance to get yet. Most of the vehicles (except the one firing massive LRM salvos from outside my sight range) were the light sort that you face early on, and I was killing them as fast as I could see them. The problem was that, even if I'd known the southern group were going to come in, I don't think I could have defeated them - there's just no way I could have put enough firepower on any of the enemy 'mechs to bring it down in one or two turns (barring incredible luck), and any of the four southern mechs could demolish the entire base (three 100-point buildings) in that amount of time. I'd have had to kill two medium battlemechs per turn to manage it.

[Triaxx]

Surprisingly, the Spider and Locust would be very good here. They're fast enough to get out and destroy the vehicles while you knock out the enemy mechs. Was it particularly flat terrain? Because getting up high where multi-target can smash on multiple targets at once is extremely helpful.

[Drasius]

It was a one and a half skull mission. I had the starting Blackjack and Vindicator (this is just after Weldry), plus a Trebuchet and a Shadow Hawk configured as a LRM boat. Pretty much the heaviest firepower I've even had a chance to get yet. Most of the vehicles (except the one firing massive LRM salvos from outside my sight range) were the light sort that you face early on, and I was killing them as fast as I could see them. The problem was that, even if I'd known the southern group were going to come in, I don't think I could have defeated them - there's just no way I could have put enough firepower on any of the enemy 'mechs to bring it down in one or two turns (barring incredible luck), and any of the four southern mechs could demolish the entire base (three 100-point buildings) in that amount of time. I'd have had to kill two medium battlemechs per turn to manage it.

Sounds like you got dicked hard by the ransom force strength roll pretty hard. Hunchies and LRM carriers as opponents on a base defence mission when you've only got OK mediums? Forget that noise.

[Anteros]

I'm liking some things about this game and disliking others. The core game is good, but it lacks a lot of polish. Lots of little things that are continually annoying like the thousands of small pauses while you wait for your pilot to make a "witty" remark after every single attack, or attacks that phase through terrain. I'm still liking it overall, but it could be a much better game if they polished it up.

Also, what in the world is the deal with the system requirements on this game? It doesn't even look that good or have that many moving parts. My computer is a beast and I still have hiccups from time to time. Also several minute long loading screens despite using a SSD.

[Olinser]

I'm liking some things about this game and disliking others. The core game is good, but it lacks a lot of polish. Lots of little things that are continually annoying like the thousands of small pauses while you wait for your pilot to make a "witty" remark after every single attack, or attacks that phase through terrain. I'm still liking it overall, but it could be a much better game if they polished it up.

Also, what in the world is the deal with the system requirements on this game? It doesn't even look that good or have that many moving parts. My computer is a beast and I still have hiccups from time to time. Also several minute long loading screens despite using a SSD.

It's just not very well optimized.

I have a supercomputer that can run any other game at max settings with no trouble, and this game has noticeable loading pauses every turn and has serious graphic lag if I pan over a segment with a lot of units or buildings in it.

Turning down the graphics and some of the graphical features helps though.

[Drasius]

I'm liking some things about this game and disliking others. The core game is good, but it lacks a lot of polish. Lots of little things that are continually annoying like the thousands of small pauses while you wait for your pilot to make a "witty" remark after every single attack, or attacks that phase through terrain. I'm still liking it overall, but it could be a much better game if they polished it up.

Also, what in the world is the deal with the system requirements on this game? It doesn't even look that good or have that many moving parts. My computer is a beast and I still have hiccups from time to time. Also several minute long loading screens despite using a SSD.

Delete most of your saves. For some reason the save files cause a massive amount of lag on both loading missions, the Dropship as well as the 'mech bay. Unfortunately, it also causes a bunch of lag on ... deleting saves, so it can be pretty painful. If you're feeling brave, someone reported that deleting your campaign save from the load screen while you're still loaded into the campaign will auto-delete all your saves for said campaign, but still allow you to save once that's done. I wasn't brave enough to try that, so I simply deleted saves one at a time and tabbed between the game and forums while it chugged away.

Apparently there's a patch coming in the next few days or so that is meant to address some of this.

The delay between activations can be modded out, though some people report it not doing much while others claim it solves all their complaints, so YMMV here.

[mangosta71]

Surprisingly, the Spider and Locust would be very good here. They're fast enough to get out and destroy the vehicles while you knock out the enemy mechs. Was it particularly flat terrain? Because getting up high where multi-target can smash on multiple targets at once is extremely helpful.
If it's as early in the campaign as it sounds, his MechWarriors don't have enough XP to have unlocked multi-targeting yet.

I ran into something similar; early on, hadn't even gotten enough salvage to have replaced any of my starting Mechs (so I was dropping in with 3 mediums and a light), mission rated as 1.5 skulls, OpFor was 2 full lances of medium Mechs. Ended with 2 of my pilots dead and all of my Mechs wrecked. I reloaded and took another contract instead of sitting for the 50+ days it would have taken to do repairs, heal, and recruit.

Most valuable advice I can give anyone playing the campaign is "save before accepting any contract."

[Kaptin Keen]

Argh, this game.

It's bad enough that my machine can only barely pull it. It's worse that the controls are marginally awful - but it's intolerable that it misinterprets inputs, or shows me a firing solution before moving that then isn't there once I've moved.

It's not as if I can just save before moving - then load if it decides to lie to me. Loading takes well over 10 god damned minutes. Ok. Maybe not 10 actual minutes. I'm a try right now, and time it. 19:23-19:26. 3 full minutes. Still a slight exaggeration.

And the way 3 mechs went into position, fired, then on their next turn somehow hadn't and couldn't establish line of sight - to the same god damned target.

[LibraryOgre]

Part of me kind of wants to play a Shadowrun-like game in the world of Battletech. You know, not as the tank that comes in, but as the people who screwed up relations in the first place?

[Aotrs Commander]

Yeah, the more I read this thread, the more I think my decision to - as is apparently the case with almost all Paradox publishd games (whether it's actually PDX or not!) - Wait For The Patch is the right one. Heh, I've got War for the Overworld's campaign to go through, and Pillars 2 is out next week (and Pillars one was mostly fine at launch), so by the time I'm ready, maybe it'll have been polished up a bit more...!

[Triaxx]

One of them, starts with Multi-target. Behemoth's got Bulwark and Medusa's got Multi-target if I'm not mistaken.

That said, your point is taken.

[Drasius]

Argh, this game.

It's bad enough that my machine can only barely pull it. It's worse that the controls are marginally awful - but it's intolerable that it misinterprets inputs, or shows me a firing solution before moving that then isn't there once I've moved.

It's not as if I can just save before moving - then load if it decides to lie to me. Loading takes well over 10 god damned minutes. Ok. Maybe not 10 actual minutes. I'm a try right now, and time it. 19:23-19:26. 3 full minutes. Still a slight exaggeration.

And the way 3 mechs went into position, fired, then on their next turn somehow hadn't and couldn't establish line of sight - to the same god damned target.

That's rather odd, as in my ~96 hours of playtime (RNGeesus! It's only been out for a week!), none of this (bar the lengthy load times, though even then mine is ~30 seconds) has happened to me once.

- How is the game misinterpreting inputs? What are you trying to do that it won't let you, or does something else?
- Are you moving to the same location that the firing solution indicates? If you simply hover over an enemy and click, it will move you as close as possible, not put you into the optimum firing position
- Have you got your facing correct after moving? If you face the wrong way to the point where the enemies are outside your firing arc, you'll see a dotted white line instead of the red line and that means that while they can see you and you can see them, you won't be able to fire your weapons at that target
- Moving into a valley or behind a boulder, building, ridge or similar will block LoS and prevent you from shooting with anything other than LRM's (assuming you've still got LoS via other units or sensor lock)
- If your 'mechs move into position and fire but the enemy moves afterwards (or you sensor lock and then the turn resets), it's possible they moved out of LoS
- If you've deselected some weapons to control your heat or to make use of breaching shot, they stay deselected between turns, so you'll have to re-enable them if you want to use them again
- Is the game installed on a HDD rather than an SSD? How close are you to the min requirements? Do you have a bunch of saves? All can contribute to slowdown both ingame and especially loading and 'mechbay

[The Glyphstone]

Are there any 'traps' I should try to avoid? aside from going bankrupt, which I assume is a game over. If I do too many missions and raise my MRB score without getting larger/stronger mechs, will I end up having only missions Im too weak to accept? or will cheap milk run battles be consistently available to keep me solvent?

[Mechalich]

If it's as early in the campaign as it sounds, his MechWarriors don't have enough XP to have unlocked multi-targeting yet.

I ran into something similar; early on, hadn't even gotten enough salvage to have replaced any of my starting Mechs (so I was dropping in with 3 mediums and a light), mission rated as 1.5 skulls, OpFor was 2 full lances of medium Mechs. Ended with 2 of my pilots dead and all of my Mechs wrecked. I reloaded and took another contract instead of sitting for the 50+ days it would have taken to do repairs, heal, and recruit.

Most valuable advice I can give anyone playing the campaign is "save before accepting any contract."

This game is like the X-COM series. Winning is not good enough. You need to be nearly perfect to justify not reloading, otherwise you'll be grinding forever. I'm near the end of the campaign and my determination is that the break-point is anything more than an arm and a torso on a single mech. Pilot deaths are right out. This game is subject to a lot of variability, especially with certain weapons. The difference between hits and misses for Large Lasers, PPC, and high-level autocannons (all of which feature on late-game vehicles and turrets) is immense. Also, whatever the algorithm that generates the OpFor is, it is subject to massive swings in difficulty on the same mission, in large part because different mech designs of roughly the same tonnage are in no way created equal. The difference between a Cicada and a Hunchback in terms of ability to mess you up is massive. This diminishes somewhat as overall tonnage increases, but never goes away entirely. In particular, missile heavy builds that can indirect fire you from essentially anywhere on the map are far more dangerous when they occur in whichever enemy unit ends up being group B.

I'd also note that multi-target seems to dramatically lose utility as the difficult increases and you fight more and more heavily armed opponents. The best campaign ability so far seems to be Tactics 9 - Master Called Shot. This allows you to use Precise Shot with an 82% chance to hit the center torso. A high firepower mech can precise shot the center torso of an unguarded mech up to around 70 tons and one-shot them much of the time (. Combined with high morale this can lead you to one-shotting your way through 2-3 medium and heavy mechs in a single turn. This method also gives you a good chance of destroying a leg even on assault mechs. You can utilize this strategy at lower levels too - the Hunchback's AC/20 is ideal for called torso shots of lightly armored mechs like Commandos and Locusts and I recommend trying to get a Hunchback ASAP as a result.

My biggest complaint about the game so far is that it desperately needs a 'restart map' option to redo a mission rather than having to reload all the way out of combat. This would save time and also reduce the accumulation of saves that is apparently such a hindrance to load times.

[Olinser]

Are there any 'traps' I should try to avoid? aside from going bankrupt, which I assume is a game over. If I do too many missions and raise my MRB score without getting larger/stronger mechs, will I end up having only missions Im too weak to accept? or will cheap milk run battles be consistently available to keep me solvent?

Not really. In the early game you should never accept the loss of a mech or a pilot, but in the mid and late game you have more money than you know what to do with, and with the training rooms completed on your ship you can easily recruit newbies and let them XP up to relatively high level to keep in reserve. The only 'trap' is giving your high level mechwarriors the really bad skills, because you can't re-skill them and have to train a new one to replace it.

MRB score doesn't actually affect missions that exist - it only affects what level contracts will pay your travel expenses. Each system has their own difficulty rating and there are a LOT of systems around at all levels. Even at high MRB level you can travel back to lower level systems and do very easy missions and make quite a lot of money as long as you're salvaging reasonably intelligently, especially since if you out-class a mission you're probably quickly destroying enemy mechs without a lot of collateral structure damage which makes it much more likely you'll get valuable chassis as available salvage.

Generally you shouldn't accept mech or mechwarrior losses on non-campaign missions, but that's not necessarily a hard and fast rule. The reward will rarely be worth it, but it CAN be worth it for upgraded chassis and rare weapon salvage, don't necessarily just auto restart a mission because you lost a mech, always think about what you were fighting and what you may be able to salvage to replace it - restarting the mission whole may change enemy spawns if you load before a point they spawned in. Think about whether getting a much heavier salvaged mech chassis is worth losing one of your lance. i.e. If your lance was 4 mediums and you lose one, but the enemy forces included an Orion you're one salvage away from finishing, you may want to finish the mission and see if you get the Orion chassis completion. Instant replacement - at that point you're just losing out on the money from selling the chassis you're not using anymore.

In general, except on extremely high-dollar contracts, extra CHOSEN salvage is worth more money than taking cash payment - I usually go +1 on chosen salvage and -1 on money for every contract except the REALLY high money ones or ones where you don't get additional chosen salvage - I've never come close to running out of money even when chain-upgrading all ship systems on completion. Mech chassis are worth hundreds of thousands each and should be chosen as salvage 99% of the time, the 1% of the time they should not be taken is if there is a really good weapon with one of the top-class ++ modifiers that you intend to use immediately (like the SRM6 I just picked up with +2 damage per missile and +stability damage).

Mech wise you should only keep active the mechs one you intend to actually use in missions - you should never have more than about 5-6, you have to pay for active mechs every month, if you want to hang on to the chassis that's fine but put it in storage.

[Anteros]

Personally, I don't see the point in playing a strategy game with my finger on the reset button. If I make a mistake and lose a unit, that's part of the game. Resetting every time something goes wrong is no different from playing with cheats on.


The only 'trap' is giving your high level mechwarriors the really bad skills, because you can't re-skill them and have to train a new one to replace it.


Which skills would you recommend vs avoid then? As someone who isn't very familiar with Battletech, I'm experiencing a bit of frustrating trial and error since the skill descriptions aren't really as detailed as I'd like.

[Mechalich]

Personally, I don't see the point in playing a strategy game with my finger on the reset button. If I make a mistake and lose a unit, that's part of the game. Resetting every time something goes wrong is no different from playing with cheats on.


Except that the game's financial calculations do not support unit loss.

The repair bill for the loss of say RA and RT on any given mech can very easily add up to close to your mission payout at the default settings (in the late game, when such losses are likely to include ++ components, the actual bill is even worse). If you were to actually lose a mech each mission you would almost certainly go bankrupt. Additionally, you are obligated to accumulate mechs and mechwarriors over time, meaning that breakeven is not sufficient, and ship upgrades cost millions despite being vital for increasing your capabilities. Maxing out a MechWarrior takes 40-50 missions depending on difficulty, which implies a very low death rate as an expectation.

The game fully expects you to take on twice your tonnage in enemies and lose less than 25% of your assets while doing so. This is actually quite doable, if you manage to split the enemy groups, avoid other sources of indirect fire (turrets) and prevent a mech from being subjected to too much concentrated fire, but there's a lot of variability. If you get strong enemy groups positioned close together or worse actively spawning from oblivion on top of you - which totally happens, reinforcements can emerge from beyond the combat zone directly behind your mechs and take actions before you can move - resetting is the logical outcome. Note that the game itself autosaves before the beginning of every mission on the default settings. This is pretty explicit endorsement of reloading.

Lots of tactical combat games are like this these days. Battletech plays the most similarly to the recent X-COM games - the game allows loses but actually taking them in any substantial way will push you behind the curve. Battletech is not time limited like X-COM, so you can grind forever if you really want, but bleh.


Which skills would you recommend vs avoid then? As someone who isn't very familiar with Battletech, I'm experiencing a bit of frustrating trial and error since the skill descriptions aren't really as detailed as I'd like.

I'm not sure any of the skills are terrible, just that some are more useful than others. I find that the tactics mastery ability is extremely useful in the late game. Having an assault mech go on 2 rather than on 1 is extremely valuable in terms of striking down heavies before they can really put the hurt on you.

[Triaxx]

Evasive vs Bulwark is my deciding factor. Missile specialists get Bulwark since a lot of their time is spent standing still shooting at target's out of LOS. Evasive is for Mechs that need LOS.

[Olinser]

Personally, I don't see the point in playing a strategy game with my finger on the reset button. If I make a mistake and lose a unit, that's part of the game. Resetting every time something goes wrong is no different from playing with cheats on.



Which skills would you recommend vs avoid then? As someone who isn't very familiar with Battletech, I'm experiencing a bit of frustrating trial and error since the skill descriptions aren't really as detailed as I'd like.

Some skills are better than others for certain mech types so some of them are better for certain playstyles.

Level 1 skills are all fairly competitive because you get 2, which means you can afford to take sometimes less than useful skills while still getting another good one. Multi shot is an absolute must have on almost all mechwarriors, its just so useful in so many situations from cherry tapping multiple mechs/vehicles to doing just enough stability for a knockdown for a followup without wasting damage, to mass stripping evasion to killing multiple objectives at once. Bulwark is useful on any of your long-range sniper mechs as they tend not to move too much anyway, so getting that juicy 50% damage reduction while still being able to shoot anything they want can be very useful. Evasive Movement is probably the least useful as its only 1 evasion charge and being outnumbered you can't really rely on evasion in the campaign. Enemy AI also uses Sensor Lock liberally on things like turrets and vehicles that are out of range of firing, so you'll frequently be evasion stripped quite easily. Sensor lock is fairly useful as the AI performs pretty poorly against an enemy it can't see, you can move a close combat mech up and sensor lock an enemy mech or vehicle you can't see then have your long ranged ones blow it away, and the AI has bad priority so it frequently moves mechs that can't attack before it actually moves one into visual range to retaliate. Plus its incredibly useful for taking out stationary turrets with no LRMs - park behind a ridge, sensor lock a turret, fire LRMs indirect over the mountain, they sensor lock back but can't shoot you because no direct LOS.

All of the level 1s are somewhat decent but I'd prioritize Multi Shot and pretty much completely avoid Evasive Movement in the campaign (its AMAZING on jump jet closers in multiplayer though).

Level 2 skills are unfortunately not balanced at all, because you can only pick 1, that means you can't take skills that might be useful if you could take 2.

The one that should absolutely be avoiding in the campaign for any reason, ever, is Juggernaut. Complete trash, and with you being outnumbered on almost all missions coupled with very few actual weapons/equipment for it, melee is simply not a feasible build unless you plan on constantly repairing and replacing it due to getting shot in the back ,and -1 initiative on a hit is just BAD, especially since how the game works you have to 'move' to make a melee hit - which means you can only use Juggernaut by NOT getting the benefit of its prerequisite, Bulwark. Plus a melee hit inflicts so much stability damage it tends to knockdown mechs anyway - which is already a -1 to initiative. Add that to the fact that the deep Guts tree provides very little benefit in itself - after the first +1 health your mechwarriors are never going to be incapacitated unless their mech has lost multiple limbs and been knocked down, in which case you're probably losing the mission anyway, and the additional 15 overheat is not very much. It's just a poorly thought out skill and skill tree that is worse than all other options.

Breaching shot is great in multiplayer to counter Bulwark and guard-reserving, and bad in the campaign because the AI tends to always move whether they have Bulwark or not, only uses Guard when it can't possibly shoot or Sensor Lock anything (and has already wasted its turn so probably shouldn't be shot at anyway), and doesn't generally do a good job of taking cover, only doing it when they happen to be able to move into cover and shoot their target, never actually proactively seeking it out. Occasionally useful as the AI will be in cover in some maps, but given you can only take 1 level 2 skill, its rather situational use means it should probably never be taken.

Ace Pilot is somewhat useful but brought down by 2 major downsides - taking it requires you to take the pretty bad (for the campaign) Evasive Movement, and for how the AI behaves, you shooting and moving is rarely any benefit over moving first and then shooting. The idea of it is sound, but its just so rarely actually useful that you shouldn't take it.

Master Tactician is just so much better than every other skill for the campaign its ridiculous. +1 initiative is ALWAYS useful, it means you move first and shoot first, and that translates to less enemies alive to shoot back at you or at objectives. Not to mention that going up the Tactics path in general arguably gets you the biggest benefits (after the first few cheap levels of Gunnery for about 10% bonus hit) with effectively removing the minimum range of most weapons, and giving major bonuses to Called Shot, which makes it much more likely you can 1 shot big threats before they can ever even have a chance to act.

[Anteros]

Except that the game's financial calculations do not support unit loss.

The repair bill for the loss of say RA and RT on any given mech can very easily add up to close to your mission payout at the default settings (in the late game, when such losses are likely to include ++ components, the actual bill is even worse). If you were to actually lose a mech each mission you would almost certainly go bankrupt. Additionally, you are obligated to accumulate mechs and mechwarriors over time, meaning that breakeven is not sufficient, and ship upgrades cost millions despite being vital for increasing your capabilities. Maxing out a MechWarrior takes 40-50 missions depending on difficulty, which implies a very low death rate as an expectation.

The game fully expects you to take on twice your tonnage in enemies and lose less than 25% of your assets while doing so. This is actually quite doable, if you manage to split the enemy groups, avoid other sources of indirect fire (turrets) and prevent a mech from being subjected to too much concentrated fire, but there's a lot of variability. If you get strong enemy groups positioned close together or worse actively spawning from oblivion on top of you - which totally happens, reinforcements can emerge from beyond the combat zone directly behind your mechs and take actions before you can move - resetting is the logical outcome. Note that the game itself autosaves before the beginning of every mission on the default settings. This is pretty explicit endorsement of reloading.

Lots of tactical combat games are like this these days. Battletech plays the most similarly to the recent X-COM games - the game allows loses but actually taking them in any substantial way will push you behind the curve. Battletech is not time limited like X-COM, so you can grind forever if you really want, but bleh.


Well the whole attraction of strategy/tactics games (to me) is that you can make mistakes and lose. Yes, failing to re-load every time you make a mistake might mean you eventually lose the game. That's the point. There's no strategy involved in simply trial and erroring your way to victory.

[Drasius]

Are there any 'traps' I should try to avoid? aside from going bankrupt, which I assume is a game over. If I do too many missions and raise my MRB score without getting larger/stronger mechs, will I end up having only missions Im too weak to accept? or will cheap milk run battles be consistently available to keep me solvent?

I'd advising rushing the story missions. They give good cash and some have either good salvage or a special reward, some of them can be quite challenging if you haven't taken a few random contracts here or there and got yourself some decent toys first.

As mentioned above, there will always be some relatively low difficulty missions that you can go back and do if you want to get use out of lights/mediums later on, train up some scrubs or just build up some rep or cash easily. You probably won't see them offered on the paid travel board though, you'll have to use the starmap and manually search for low difficulty planets and pay your own way there.

Mission difficulty is tied to both story and MRB rating, so you won't find many/any of the really good stuff without progressing at least a little (Assault mechs are unavailable as OpFor until you've gotten at least a little into the campaign). The higher the contract difficulty, the better the toys you salvage though, so it all balances out to an extent.

Large Lasers feel pretty underwhelming at the moment too. Almost everything else has a place, but the LL just doesn't feel worth it. I'd say making use of them would also qualify as a trap, but YMMV.


This game is like the X-COM series. Winning is not good enough. You need to be nearly perfect to justify not reloading, otherwise you'll be grinding forever. I'm near the end of the campaign and my determination is that the break-point is anything more than an arm and a torso on a single mech. Pilot deaths are right out. This game is subject to a lot of variability, especially with certain weapons. The difference between hits and misses for Large Lasers, PPC, and high-level autocannons (all of which feature on late-game vehicles and turrets) is immense. Also, whatever the algorithm that generates the OpFor is, it is subject to massive swings in difficulty on the same mission, in large part because different mech designs of roughly the same tonnage are in no way created equal. The difference between a Cicada and a Hunchback in terms of ability to mess you up is massive. This diminishes somewhat as overall tonnage increases, but never goes away entirely. In particular, missile heavy builds that can indirect fire you from essentially anywhere on the map are far more dangerous when they occur in whichever enemy unit ends up being group B.

I'd also note that multi-target seems to dramatically lose utility as the difficult increases and you fight more and more heavily armed opponents. The best campaign ability so far seems to be Tactics 9 - Master Called Shot. This allows you to use Precise Shot with an 82% chance to hit the center torso. A high firepower mech can precise shot the center torso of an unguarded mech up to around 70 tons and one-shot them much of the time (. Combined with high morale this can lead you to one-shotting your way through 2-3 medium and heavy mechs in a single turn. This method also gives you a good chance of destroying a leg even on assault mechs. You can utilize this strategy at lower levels too - the Hunchback's AC/20 is ideal for called torso shots of lightly armored mechs like Commandos and Locusts and I recommend trying to get a Hunchback ASAP as a result.

My biggest complaint about the game so far is that it desperately needs a 'restart map' option to redo a mission rather than having to reload all the way out of combat. This would save time and also reduce the accumulation of saves that is apparently such a hindrance to load times.

I disagree with literally everything you wrote, bar that it has similarities with X-Com in how it plays.


Which skills would you recommend vs avoid then? As someone who isn't very familiar with Battletech, I'm experiencing a bit of frustrating trial and error since the skill descriptions aren't really as detailed as I'd like.

I'm just going to re-post this from the official forums:

Everything has its place, though Jugg is probably the most specialised/niche.

Multi-target is very solid for a multitude of things - allowing you to alpha despite running mixed range weapons, stripping evasion off multiple targets, taking out multiple weak/crippled enemies, putting a targetting malus on multiple enemies via multiple PPC's. It's not always useful, but it's very good on almost any pilot.
Breaching Shot is great if you're running 1 big gun (ala HBK-4G ), 1 big gun for a given range (eg PPC or LRM's and AC/20) or just to conserve ammo against braced targets for LRM boats. You can use both Multi-Target and Breaching Shot together, by firing 1 shot at each different target. Also handy if you routinely ride your heat curve and still want to contribute while you cool down. Gives full stability damage too, not just full armour damage, which can be handy on it's own.

Evasive Movement is almost always active and it's fairly easy to get. Getting hit less is good, but it's not quite as immediately impactful as some other abilities. While it has an interesting synergy with Bulwark (in that you're either getting this bonus or the bulwark bonus), it also means you're only ever going to be able to use one or the other, never both. You can use your morale abilities to get this and still have your damage reduction though, but obviously that's only going to be infrequent and not something to be counted on. Can also get 1/2 the effect of Bulwark from a forrest while still benefiting from evasion too, but again, not as reliable as you'd like.
Ace Pilot is pretty damn great for many situations. A fighting withdrawal, playing peek-a-boo around LoS blockers, making sure your target is down before moving on, playing your range brackets after enemy advance, this is really only limited by your tactical nous. Can play nice with Bulwark since you can stand still to shoot and if things don't got to plan, you can sit tight and enjoy your 1/2 damage or if you kill your enemy, you can reposition safely for your next target, but it's a bit more specific than most other obvious combos.

Bulwark is love, Bulwark is life. Give up your evasion pips and instead take 1/2 damage from front/sides. Can't be eroded via multiple enemies, isn't subject to RNG, can prevent being headcapped even by AC/20's. You are easier to hit though, but the slower your mech is, the easier you were going to be to hit anyway. Doesn't work so well with Evasive Movement, but eventually you're going to have to give up being a turret and wander around, so it'd be nice to keep some defensive boost (though you can keep your bulwark effect via morale abilities on the turn you move if you need it, so YMMV).
Juggernaught is probably the most niche skill, since if you're not making use of melee, you're not getting much benefit. On the other hand, if you're running a brawler lance, the ability to punch an enemy into the next initiative stage can be a gamechanger. If you're punching a Medium, now all your mediums get to punch it before it gets a turn. If you then knock it down, it's now fair game for any of your heavies to punch/shoot the hell out of it before it gets a turn/stands back up as well. With morale abilities, you can force a light mech (or a Master Tactician Medium) into the assault phase. Very strong in the right lance and/or playstyle, nigh useless outside of it.

Sensor Lock is for more than spamming LRM's from out of LoS (but it's really good at that too). Keeping tabs on mission critical mobile enemies, getting first strike capability, dropping evasion off an enemy and yes, pounding poor saps who can't retaliate are all great uses of Sensor Lock. Unfortunately, you're also not doing any shooting if you're locking, but hey, it's a very nice option to have in your toolbox, especially if you're one of those dirty LRM spammers who wants the indirect fire and -ve min range modifiers anyway. Having a pair of Macross Missile Massacre 'Mechs with with and breaching shot means that your ammo will go further and you can lock for each other as well as support the rest of your lance once your bins are dry.
Master Tactician sounds a bit underwhelming at first, but +1 initiative is very strong. Going before your enemies is good for many things, but killing them before they kill you is pretty high up there. You get to control positioning better, you have the option for first strike, you can bait enemies by controling the turn order and, probably one of the most underestmated things - it's useful mo matter what 'mech or even what class of 'mech you're in. Also ensures that you get a double turn without worrying about opposing lights (unless they also have Master Tactician).

IMHO, when in doubt, Bulwark and Breaching Shot are hard to beat for offensive guys while Master Tactician and Evasive Movement are very solid picks if you want to be a bit sneaky. Almost any combo will have a situation where it shines though, and you've got enough berths on the Argo (with an upgrade or two) that you can have quite a few different pilots with a wide variety of skill combinations to test out what works for you.

I've played quite a few more hours since I wrote that, and after 100 hours, I'd say that while you can make any combo work, Ace Pilot is proving to be less useful than I'd like and I really miss Breaching Shot when I don't have it because Bulwark pilots become fairly common as you get further into the campaign. At least 1 pilot with Sensor Lock is nigh mandatory for certain missions too, so always keep that in mind. I'd also say that whatever skill combo you're going for, once you're there, getting Guts to a reasonable level is extrodinarily helpful because not only is the +health super handy at keeping your pilots alive against random head hits, the +heat threshold makes riding the heat curve much easier, especially on hot planets. High tactics is nice if you're going for LRM boating or making heavy use of Precision Shot. I found that once I got Gunnery to the 5-7 range, anything above that was overkill, but you also really felt it if it was below that too. Getting the extra stabiltiy via increased Piloting is nice, but unless you're running a brawler lance, it's definately the last thing I would max (making the 2 Piloting related abilities less desirable).

[Erloas]

I have not yet had a chance to play. I think I should get a chance this weekend though. We'll see how it goes since my computer leaves something to be desired.

I would like to chime in on the difficulty/loss thing. Not sure how it will feel actually playing, but that sounds about like how it should be, at least according to the background, especially in the Succession Wars era. By the end of that they were developing melee weapons just to save on ammunition costs and use. It was all about grinding everything to oblivion and the loss of a 'Mech was a really big deal. I also know that in campaigns in the TT game it was very common to pull back units that were in danger but still capable of fighting just to minimize the damages. You also were much less likely to put units in risky situations just because its not that hard to drop a 'Mech in one round if things go badly. I think that was one of the strong points of the game that is lost when its played as just one-off missions.
A more calculated risk assessment is needed than in most games it seems. Which I'm ok with. Most games there is no actual risk, there is just a mostly binary "you win" or a much less frequent "you loose, reload and try again." Which would put it much more into the strategy/survival genre, which I'm not actually sure exists. Most survival games being action or puzzle oriented.

[Drasius]

I have not yet had a chance to play. I think I should get a chance this weekend though. We'll see how it goes since my computer leaves something to be desired.

I would like to chime in on the difficulty/loss thing. Not sure how it will feel actually playing, but that sounds about like how it should be, at least according to the background, especially in the Succession Wars era. By the end of that they were developing melee weapons just to save on ammunition costs and use. It was all about grinding everything to oblivion and the loss of a 'Mech was a really big deal. I also know that in campaigns in the TT game it was very common to pull back units that were in danger but still capable of fighting just to minimize the damages. You also were much less likely to put units in risky situations just because its not that hard to drop a 'Mech in one round if things go badly. I think that was one of the strong points of the game that is lost when its played as just one-off missions.
A more calculated risk assessment is needed than in most games it seems. Which I'm ok with. Most games there is no actual risk, there is just a mostly binary "you win" or a much less frequent "you loose, reload and try again." Which would put it much more into the strategy/survival genre, which I'm not actually sure exists. Most survival games being action or puzzle oriented.

The AI has absolutely no preservation instinct unfortunately. Single Locust with no weapons left against a lance of Assault 'mechs? CHARGE!

I suspect the you'll enjoy Ironman (or, pseudo ironman, since it's not an official mode yet) since it really does fit in with the setting and they've done a pretty good job of having you able to come back from losses without making it consequence free.

[Mechalich]

Well the whole attraction of strategy/tactics games (to me) is that you can make mistakes and lose. Yes, failing to re-load every time you make a mistake might mean you eventually lose the game. That's the point. There's no strategy involved in simply trial and erroring your way to victory.

In a game like X-COM or Fire Emblem even with very good tactics, if you do not reload, you will lose. The RNG is simply too merciless for you to succeed otherwise, there's too many 5% chances of instant death on characters you can't afford to lose permanently. In Battletech, you're supposed to make a cost/benefit calculation and use the Withdraw button to instantly cease battle before loses become too intense to sustain. That's unrealistic as it gets and from my perspective worse than reloading and trying again. Also, it encourages simply avoiding any challenging scenario in the game. The random missions will throw out scenarios that are far more difficult than any of the scripted missions. Actually losing by going bankrupt is extremely unlikely, it just means that taking unacceptable mission loses means more grinding. It would be trivial to pad your coffers in the mid-game by doing 100% money runs so you had endless funding, but considering how slow this game plays, I'll pass.



Large Lasers feel pretty underwhelming at the moment too. Almost everything else has a place, but the LL just doesn't feel worth it. I'd say making use of them would also qualify as a trap, but YMMV.

Large Lasers, and to a slightly lesser extent PPC generate heat problems that the other big weapons like autocannons or gauss rifles don't have. Laser heavy builds in general feel inferior overall, both because of heat and because of the almighty power of stability damage which lasers barely inflict. Also, unless you're spamming indirect fire really heavily, ammo never seems to become an issue. I don't think I even ever had the Hunchback's AC/20 run out, and it only gives you 10 shots.

The one thing I find about multi-targeting that's frustrating is that you can't - unless I'm missing something in the interface - combine it with called shot targeting. This is significant because it dramatically reduces the utility of multi-target as a finisher when you start finishing a large number of enemies using said targeting either via precise shot or against downed enemies. Against enemy assault mechs you will knock them down before you come anywhere near stripping off all the armor, the stability math makes this functionally inevitable, and you really, really want to go for the kill during knockdown - either by smashing the CT, breaking the other leg, or going for a head shot.


The AI has absolutely no preservation instinct unfortunately. Single Locust with no weapons left against a lance of Assault 'mechs? CHARGE!

Yeah, this is extremely frustrating. It would be nice if the enemy would eject or surrender or something. I've had a number of frustrating situations where a final, heavily damaged enemy mech moves up into a suicidal positions exposing its back to ruinous counterfire so it can launch one final attack against your most vulnerable unit that you had withdrawn to the edge of range and then they get some ridiculously lucky hit that blows off an arm.


I would like to chime in on the difficulty/loss thing. Not sure how it will feel actually playing, but that sounds about like how it should be, at least according to the background, especially in the Succession Wars era. By the end of that they were developing melee weapons just to save on ammunition costs and use. It was all about grinding everything to oblivion and the loss of a 'Mech was a really big deal. I also know that in campaigns in the TT game it was very common to pull back units that were in danger but still capable of fighting just to minimize the damages. You also were much less likely to put units in risky situations just because its not that hard to drop a 'Mech in one round if things go badly. I think that was one of the strong points of the game that is lost when its played as just one-off missions.

The thing that bugs me is that there are gaps in the tactical setup. Enemy reinforcements will materialize from outside the map behind you and go before you can react. Or will bamf into existence when you access an objective. One of the scripted missions begins with you surrounded and the entire enemy lance gets to go first. One of those mechs can get a critical headshot and end the mission right then. There's a difference between making a mistake or taking a risk and just flat-out being ganked.

[donpaul]

Have you played it? Is it good?

I really like Hare Brained's take on Shadowrun - even if it was remarkably unlike the rule set of the books, it was very much like the world/setting, and they were some really good games. So I have high hopes for this one.

I found it really average tbh. I've seen better.

[Anteros]

In a game like X-COM or Fire Emblem even with very good tactics, if you do not reload, you will lose. The RNG is simply too merciless for you to succeed otherwise, there's too many 5% chances of instant death on characters you can't afford to lose permanently. In Battletech, you're supposed to make a cost/benefit calculation and use the Withdraw button to instantly cease battle before loses become too intense to sustain. That's unrealistic as it gets and from my perspective worse than reloading and trying again. Also, it encourages simply avoiding any challenging scenario in the game. The random missions will throw out scenarios that are far more difficult than any of the scripted missions. Actually losing by going bankrupt is extremely unlikely, it just means that taking unacceptable mission loses means more grinding. It would be trivial to pad your coffers in the mid-game by doing 100% money runs so you had endless funding, but considering how slow this game plays, I'll pass.


You're exaggerating. I've played both of these games without reloading. Most of the Fire Emblem games in particular are only difficult for the first few maps. By mid-game several of your units are monsters who can solo the entire map with literally no danger. I've literally done a Hector only run of FE7 and the only thing even remotely difficult about it was that you run out of weapon durability on the larger maps before you run out of enemies.

As for X-Com...it's literally the game that originated the term iron man. It's perfectly possible to play it without loading as well. Tons of people do so.

The fact that you might actually lose is what makes it fun. For me at least. If you enjoy reloading until you find the perfect set of moves to make for each map so that you don't lose anything then more power to you.



The thing that bugs me is that there are gaps in the tactical setup. Enemy reinforcements will materialize from outside the map behind you and go before you can react. Or will bamf into existence when you access an objective. One of the scripted missions begins with you surrounded and the entire enemy lance gets to go first. One of those mechs can get a critical headshot and end the mission right then. There's a difference between making a mistake or taking a risk and just flat-out being ganked.

It's a strategy game. You can't always anticipate your enemy in war and sometimes you get ambushed. Any good strategy game should incorporate battles like this. Reacting to finding yourself in a bad scenario and pulling out a win anyway is part of the fun.

[houlio]

You're exaggerating. I've played both of these games without reloading. Most of the Fire Emblem games in particular are only difficult for the first few maps. By mid-game several of your units are monsters who can solo the entire map with literally no danger. I've literally done a Hector only run of FE7 and the only thing even remotely difficult about it was that you run out of weapon durability on the larger maps before you run out of enemies.

As for X-Com...it's literally the game that originated the term iron man. It's perfectly possible to play it without loading as well. Tons of people do so.

The fact that you might actually lose is what makes it fun. For me at least. If you enjoy reloading until you find the perfect set of moves to make for each map so that you don't lose anything then more power to you.

I also totally agree. Fire Emblem and XCOM (and X-Com) are also totally bearable even if you lose a ton of your units. I have friends who’ve done candid fire emblem run throughs and not been able to field a full army because of how many units they lost, and they still manage to finish the game.

I’ve played through the original X-Com and the both of the new series on Ironman and won (albeit normal difficulty). I even won my XCOM 1 run after I stupidly lost a full of squad of colonels in the late game. Having to occasionally make tough choices or run suboptimally for awhile because of sustained losses is part of the fun.

I also quite enjoy ironman runs because I find them a lot less stressful. If I decide to reload, I get far too concerned trying to run missions perfectly, while playing Ironman forces me to accept my mistakes and just move on.

I can’t get Battletech yet because I’m stuck with a toaster masquerading as a laptop for another couple of years, but I definitely want to play the campaign without reloading once I get my feet wet with it.

[huttj509]

Yeah, this is extremely frustrating. It would be nice if the enemy would eject or surrender or something. I've had a number of frustrating situations where a final, heavily damaged enemy mech moves up into a suicidal positions exposing its back to ruinous counterfire so it can launch one final attack against your most vulnerable unit that you had withdrawn to the edge of range and then they get some ridiculously lucky hit that blows off an arm.



Only an arm? I had a mech who I was about to finish off run over on top of a hill, get los on my missile mech, and take off the head in one shot. This also killed the Master Tactician pilot.

I didn't reload. My new missile-pilot is sorely tempted to have Stability just to prevent that (my current one has multi-target)

[Drasius]

I also totally agree. Fire Emblem and XCOM (and X-Com) are also totally bearable even if you lose a ton of your units. I have friends who’ve done candid fire emblem run throughs and not been able to field a full army because of how many units they lost, and they still manage to finish the game.

I’ve played through the original X-Com and the both of the new series on Ironman and won (albeit normal difficulty). I even won my XCOM 1 run after I stupidly lost a full of squad of colonels in the late game. Having to occasionally make tough choices or run suboptimally for awhile because of sustained losses is part of the fun.

I also quite enjoy ironman runs because I find them a lot less stressful. If I decide to reload, I get far too concerned trying to run missions perfectly, while playing Ironman forces me to accept my mistakes and just move on.

I can’t get Battletech yet because I’m stuck with a toaster masquerading as a laptop for another couple of years, but I definitely want to play the campaign without reloading once I get my feet wet with it.

Yep. Just finished the story and after 920 in game days and ~105 hours real time, I didn't lose a single pilot and only reloaded once (and that was because the game decided to put my only fast jump capable 'mech that I took specifically to defend another base on the other side of the base from where it needed to go due to the order of 'mechs in the deployment screen).

Granted, If my CO wasn't immortal, I would have lost him twice, once to getting hilariously outgunned at short range by a pair of Stalkers when he was in a Dragon, the other from being double headshot by a surprise Demolisher.

The story overall ... isn't great, despite having some nice elements to it and other than one specific thing, it still feels like battletech, so I can forgive a lot. I wish they'd gotten one of the traditional BattleTech authors to write it instead, in fact, I wish they'd gotten Stackpole to write it with the backer money instead of the novel, but if wishes were fishes and all that. Still, it kept me playing it 12 hours a day for a week, so I can't really complain.

Now to decide if I want to wander the inner sphere and see about finishing off my collection of 'mechs or if I want to start another campaign fresh and try out some different toys.

[Cespenar]

So, are people with middling rigs running this fine?

Because I haven't gotten it yet, but I've been hearing some bad things about its stability issues.

[Triaxx]

Hasn't crashed on me yet?

[Drasius]

So, are people with middling rigs running this fine?

Because I haven't gotten it yet, but I've been hearing some bad things about its stability issues.

From what I see on the forums, it's nigh random if you have an issue or not. There's the usual spate of outdated drivers and such that cause issues, but there's also a few people who seem to have a bunch of issues regardless and it's not linked to PC performance. It really does need some optimisation work though, but there's an opt in beta patch out at the moment that solved a bunch of peoples issues and word from the devs is that there's another patch coming ~end of the week to further address issues and optimisation. If you're on the fence, I'd wait and see what happens with the upcoming patch.

My rig is reasonably good (i7 6700k running a very mild OC, 1080, 16gb ram, games are on a SSD) and is a reasonably fresh install, but I'm not having any issues for what it's worth. I've had 1 crash in >100 hours and that was on the first day and related to the Paradox side of things that should be all sorted now. Missions take a bit longer than I'd like to load (30-40 seconds), but other than that, no real complaints performance-wise (other than too many saves slow down load times).

[Hunter Noventa]

From what I see on the forums, it's nigh random if you have an issue or not. There's the usual spate of outdated drivers and such that cause issues, but there's also a few people who seem to have a bunch of issues regardless and it's not linked to PC performance. It really does need some optimisation work though, but there's an opt in beta patch out at the moment that solved a bunch of peoples issues and word from the devs is that there's another patch coming ~end of the week to further address issues and optimisation. If you're on the fence, I'd wait and see what happens with the upcoming patch.

My rig is reasonably good (i7 6700k running a very mild OC, 1080, 16gb ram, games are on a SSD) and is a reasonably fresh install, but I'm not having any issues for what it's worth. I've had 1 crash in >100 hours and that was on the first day and related to the Paradox side of things that should be all sorted now. Missions take a bit longer than I'd like to load (30-40 seconds), but other than that, no real complaints performance-wise (other than too many saves slow down load times).

Yeah I've already noticed some performance improvements, they're drip-feeding optimization it seems like, the game certainly runs cooler than it did when it came out, and if it gets better, well, all the better.

[Lost Demiurge]

...okay. I hit a wall.

I'm trying to run through that mission with the ammo dump, where you can pop crates to even your odds, but at a cost to your bonus. Even going in and accepting that I'll have to do that a couple of times, I'm still having a tough time against eight mechs plus the turrets. Doesn't help that the jerks never cluster around the ammo crates...

Anyone else hit this one? Got a good strategy? After five reloads I'm still getting my metal-plated keister handed to me.

[Triaxx]

What are you dropping with versus your opponent's?

[InvisibleBison]

...okay. I hit a wall.

I'm trying to run through that mission with the ammo dump, where you can pop crates to even your odds, but at a cost to your bonus. Even going in and accepting that I'll have to do that a couple of times, I'm still having a tough time against eight mechs plus the turrets. Doesn't help that the jerks never cluster around the ammo crates...

Anyone else hit this one? Got a good strategy? After five reloads I'm still getting my metal-plated keister handed to me.

I had a lot of trouble with this one too. The strategy I eventually used to win was to just stay in the starting area. I sent one of my mechs to blow up the ammo crate that took out the 2 LRM turrets, then withdrew it back behind the ridge. Staying put forced the enemy to engage me in several smaller waves rather than all at once, which made the mission much easier.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

...okay. I hit a wall.

I'm trying to run through that mission with the ammo dump, where you can pop crates to even your odds, but at a cost to your bonus. Even going in and accepting that I'll have to do that a couple of times, I'm still having a tough time against eight mechs plus the turrets. Doesn't help that the jerks never cluster around the ammo crates...

Anyone else hit this one? Got a good strategy? After five reloads I'm still getting my metal-plated keister handed to me.

1) This mission demands highly mobile mechs, because you have to pretty much be all over the place

2) This is a desert planet, you are needing ice-cold mechs to do things properly. This means more AC's and fewer PPC's. Or at least having enough heat sinks to deal with it.

3) Take out that damn Firestarter. It's only a scout mech, with relatively low armor, but those three flamers are absolute murder on this mission because of the environment. Alpha it down if you need to.

4) If you want to simply hand-wave the convoys, you can basically turtle up in the bottom left corner, so they have one of two uphill climbs to get at you. However, the Panther is going to be ripping your arse off with his PPC if you don't have something that can fire back.

5) Wait until you have a solid core of Medium mechs before accepting the mission. Rushing into this with one or two light mechs is begging for disaster. You're wanting a solid 45-55 tonnage across the board before you take the mission.

[The Glyphstone]

I see people talking about upgrading your dropship, but I don't see an option. Is that locked behind a Story mission?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I see people talking about upgrading your dropship, but I don't see an option. Is that locked behind a Story mission?

Yes. You get an upgrade to your Leopard during gameplay after going through a story mission. This is the ship they are referencing upgrading.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes. You get an upgrade to your Leopard during gameplay after going through a story mission. This is the ship they are referencing upgrading.

Which reminds me, I just feel vaguely disappointed that the Leopard is the campaign dropship. A spheroid like the Overlord is just so much more of an iconic 'Dropship' to me. Plus, where do you fit all your extra Mechs? Leopards can carry 4 Mechs at a time, an Overlord holds 36.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Which reminds me, I just feel vaguely disappointed that the Leopard is the campaign dropship. A spheroid like the Overlord is just so much more of an iconic 'Dropship' to me. Plus, where do you fit all your extra Mechs? Leopards can carry 4 Mechs at a time, an Overlord holds 36.

Because the price tag of an Overlord probably exceeds the value of the Auregian Reach that you are squabbling over?

The Leopard is okay for the beginning of the game, and your next ship is... somewhere between an Overlord and a Leopard. It's a good ship, and can be upgraded to have three mech bays with six mechs each for a total of 18 mechs, which is three lances plus a couple of spares, sufficient for any single drop a merc company like yours might need.

[The Glyphstone]

A Union class ship then. At least it looks right, that is to say egg shaped. The fact that you start the game with more Mechs than the Leopard's canonical transport capacity is just a nitpick that amuses me.

[Kaptin Keen]

So ... tell me about time and missions - if you know:

I know missions eventually go away. Is there a way to know when? How about story missions?

In other news, Jenners. Jenners are simply OP. I just did the Argo's mission, and my single Jenner was able to get twice the number of kills of anyone else. Of course, if she hadn't been able to flank, that wouldn't have been the case, but still - high speed is part of how you flank. God I love Jenners.

[Triaxx]

Here, a Shadowhawk with Ice in it's veins. https://imgur.com/a/5EPqf2O

Seriously, on the one early desert planet, this thing just flat out doesn't generate heat. Even jump jetting to fire a full salvo you get a tiny tick on the bar.

Turrets have ended up less of a problem for me, since I learned I can sensor lock them and slam LRM's into them until they stop shooting back. (Getting an LRM 15 hasn't hurt either.)

I assume once I upgrade ships the money flows as I'm no longer tied to the loans on the Leopard?

[Olinser]

Here, a Shadowhawk with Ice in it's veins. https://imgur.com/a/5EPqf2O

Seriously, on the one early desert planet, this thing just flat out doesn't generate heat. Even jump jetting to fire a full salvo you get a tiny tick on the bar.

Turrets have ended up less of a problem for me, since I learned I can sensor lock them and slam LRM's into them until they stop shooting back. (Getting an LRM 15 hasn't hurt either.)

I assume once I upgrade ships the money flows as I'm no longer tied to the loans on the Leopard?

No, technically you're not paying the loan anymore but you have to pay upkeep on the ship which is the exact same amount as the loan, then every upgraded system you install has a monthly upkeep cost. Most of them are pretty low, though, a couple thousand credits or even less a month for most but the really big box systems like another Mech bay. Almost full system installed with 4 heavy/assault mechs and almost max rank pilots and I've only got about a $400k per month upkeep, when the average contract rewards significantly more than that in money plus salvage.

As far as the Shadow Hawk goes, thats a REALLY weak mech. Very little damage, you have a theoretical max damage on an alpha strike of only 138 damage, that's pathetic for a 55 ton mech (and the fact that you have both SRMs and LRMs on one chassis means you've never going to actually hit all your missiles because of the range penalties), mediocre armor, and wasted tonnage with heat sinks when you're already low on heat. Heat is a resource - you're wasting 3 full tons on heat sinks for a mech that doesn't have heat problems. You can lower the heat sinks and get more weapons and still fire for a long time before ever having to cut a laser or two to keep under the overheat curve. Ditch 1-2 heat sinks for armor or an upgraded AC or a bigger LRM.

At a minimum strip half the armor off the arm that has no components on it and reinforce the center torso and areas that actually have things installed in them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Here, a Shadowhawk with Ice in it's veins. https://imgur.com/a/5EPqf2O

Seriously, on the one early desert planet, this thing just flat out doesn't generate heat. Even jump jetting to fire a full salvo you get a tiny tick on the bar.Personally, I think it's a little *TOO* cold. I'd swap out a heat sink for a pair of jump jets (should still be a half ton each on that mech, right?). Part of the strength of the Shadow Hawk is its jump capabilities, needs more jump. Also, the LRM/5 is a bit dubious. Missiles generally need a certain critical mass to be relevant, so I'd honestly dump the LRM/5 in favor of more armor. Can dump the LRM Ammo too.

Actually... yea, there's an idea. Dump the LRM/5 in exchange for max front armor and max jump jets, that keeps the extra heat sink for sinking the jump heat. Makes it a highly mobile and versatile mech that can range in on you no matter where you are on the map.

Maybe dump the LRM/5 and a heat sink for a second SRM/6? Yea, that sounds good too.


Turrets have ended up less of a problem for me, since I learned I can sensor lock them and slam LRM's into them until they stop shooting back. (Getting an LRM 15 hasn't hurt either.)

I assume once I upgrade ships the money flows as I'm no longer tied to the loans on the Leopard?There's a plot relevant mission related to both of these factors.

[Triaxx]

If I were going to do that, I'd slot in the SRM2++ I picked up. It'll probably outdate later on, but right now it's tough enough that only a couple of lucky early barrages that hit the head have ever done any serious damage to it. I can also sweet spot it, where all the weapons have an 80%+ hit chance even against a Bulwarked Mech. For mobility I have the Blackjack and Spider. Spider's kind of unstoppable and can move FAR. The Blackjack's just tough enough to take a hit, and agile enough to hop over the top of an enemy and shoot them in the back.

Guess I have to go into the plot at some point then I guess. I've been running around doing contracts. Will too high of an MRB rating screw me over later?

[Mechalich]

Useful planning note: the final story mission requires you to deploy for two missions with no time in between (though armor loss auto-repairs instantly as normal). While the first part is not particularly hard, you are highly likely to suffer some measure of mech damage and effectively certain to suffer pilot injuries - by the late game injuries on missions become inescapable, too many missiles being thrown around to avoid the occasional head ding. So you should be aiming to field around 6 end-game ready mechs and 7 high-powered mechwarriors to hit this point (one slot in the final battle is filled by an NPC)

[The Glyphstone]

Anyone happen to know a link to the old rant/joke about Battletech's economy being built around digging holes?

[Drasius]

...okay. I hit a wall.

I'm trying to run through that mission with the ammo dump, where you can pop crates to even your odds, but at a cost to your bonus. Even going in and accepting that I'll have to do that a couple of times, I'm still having a tough time against eight mechs plus the turrets. Doesn't help that the jerks never cluster around the ammo crates...

Anyone else hit this one? Got a good strategy? After five reloads I'm still getting my metal-plated keister handed to me.

This is the mission most people have trouble with if they haven't been faffing about being the best there ever was and collecting every pok...battlemech.

General consensus is that there's 3 ways to do the mission:
1) Move up a bit and blow the crates when you can catch a 'mech or two in their radius, then focus down whatever remains. This gets the mission done, but no bonus.
2) Stay in the starting area, hunker down and have enough firepower to down stuff as it comes to you a few 'mechs at a time. This gets you the ammo crate bonus, but the transports get away.
3) Move left up the hill and gank the first truck, camp the ridge until the second truck spawns and gank that, then retreat SSW and try and survive the remaining trickle of 'mechs. You can still blow 2 crates and get all the secondary objectives, but this way can be pretty tough without at least 1 heavy.

Option 1 is probably better for troopers/brawlers while option 2 is better for quicker/lighter lances. Option 3 needs something fairly quick as the slower mediums won't get to the truck in time and it's got a surprising amount of armour, so bring a hole puncher or LOTS of LRM's.


I see people talking about upgrading your dropship, but I don't see an option. Is that locked behind a Story mission?

Yep, you're not missing out on a huge amount there, but some of the bits and pieces are nice to have later in the campaign.


Which reminds me, I just feel vaguely disappointed that the Leopard is the campaign dropship. A spheroid like the Overlord is just so much more of an iconic 'Dropship' to me. Plus, where do you fit all your extra Mechs? Leopards can carry 4 Mechs at a time, an Overlord holds 36.

It's not. Unless you're deliberatly tooling around int he early mission stuff, you get the alternative pretty soon. I won't spoil it further, but your complaints should mostly be assuaged.


Because the price tag of an Overlord probably exceeds the value of the Auregian Reach that you are squabbling over?

The Leopard is okay for the beginning of the game, and your next ship is... somewhere between an Overlord and a Leopard. It's a good ship, and can be upgraded to have three mech bays with six mechs each for a total of 18 mechs, which is three lances plus a couple of spares, sufficient for any single drop a merc company like yours might need.

The Argo is basically a reskinned Behemoth, a 100,000 ton jobby that's literally 10 times the mass of the ~10,000 ton Overlord.


A Union class ship then. At least it looks right, that is to say egg shaped. The fact that you start the game with more Mechs than the Leopard's canonical transport capacity is just a nitpick that amuses me.

Give it time.


So ... tell me about time and missions - if you know:

I know missions eventually go away. Is there a way to know when? How about story missions?

In other news, Jenners. Jenners are simply OP. I just did the Argo's mission, and my single Jenner was able to get twice the number of kills of anyone else. Of course, if she hadn't been able to flank, that wouldn't have been the case, but still - high speed is part of how you flank. God I love Jenners.

Story missions never expire and you're never pressured into doing them. Some guy spent 520 weeks before doing the first non-forced story mission. Generally speaking, the random contract missions last 30 days from when they're first posted (not when you first see them) IIRC, but if you sign a contract, it will always be there once you get to the planet. I'm sure someone has dug the info out of the JSON files though, so if you really wanted to check, I'm sure google and some reading could get you the answer.

Also, be on the lookout for a Grasshopper as you outgrow lights, it does a fantastic job of being a heavy scout and backstabbing flanker that won't fold to a light breeze.


Useful planning note: the final story mission requires you to deploy for two missions with no time in between (though armor loss auto-repairs instantly as normal). While the first part is not particularly hard, you are highly likely to suffer some measure of mech damage and effectively certain to suffer pilot injuries - by the late game injuries on missions become inescapable, too many missiles being thrown around to avoid the occasional head ding. So you should be aiming to field around 6 end-game ready mechs and 7 high-powered mechwarriors to hit this point (one slot in the final battle is filled by an NPC)

Please put info regarding the final mission/s in a spoiler, very few people here will have finished the campaign by this point. If you're still suffering pilot damage at this point, you really should be prioritising cockpit mods as they basically negate anything beyond total cockpit destruction at this point in the campaign.

[Drasius]

Anyone happen to know a link to the old rant/joke about Battletech's economy being built around digging holes?

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=172.msg1076#msg1076

[Kaptin Keen]

Story missions never expire and you're never pressured into doing them.

Cool, perfect. Thanks =)


Also, be on the lookout for a Grasshopper as you outgrow lights, it does a fantastic job of being a heavy scout and backstabbing flanker that won't fold to a light breeze.

A heavy scout? Oh golly! =)

Yea, for all the Jenner's value, if they ever do turn and fire on it, it's pops incredibly quickly.

[Drasius]

A heavy scout? Oh golly! =)

Yea, for all the Jenner's value, if they ever do turn and fire on it, it's pops incredibly quickly.

For given values of heavy (if you're Lyran) and scout (if you're not Lyran).

[The Glyphstone]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=172.msg1076#msg1076

That's the one.


Anyways, Mech review. I've finished the first major story mission, so now I'm to the point where I can think about actually customizing my 'Mechs for better efficiency. Currently my lineup is:

Shadowhawk - LRM10, LRM5, SRM2, Medium Laser, 2 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Blackjack - AC2x2, Medium Laserx4, 4 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Centurion - Medium Laser x2, SRM6 x2, AC5, 4 Heat Sinks
Vindicator - LRM5, PPC, Medium Laser, Small Laser, 4 Jump Jets, 6 Heat Sinks
Spider - Medium Laser x2, 8x Jump Jets

What can I do to maximize my combat ability as long as I'm limited to those chassis, or other Light mechs I recieve via salvage?

[Gnoman]

That's the one.


Anyways, Mech review. I've finished the first major story mission, so now I'm to the point where I can think about actually customizing my 'Mechs for better efficiency. Currently my lineup is:

Shadowhawk - LRM10, LRM5, SRM2, Medium Laser, 2 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Blackjack - AC2x2, Medium Laserx4, 4 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Centurion - Medium Laser x2, SRM6 x2, AC5, 4 Heat Sinks
Vindicator - LRM5, PPC, Medium Laser, Small Laser, 4 Jump Jets, 6 Heat Sinks
Spider - Medium Laser x2, 8x Jump Jets

What can I do to maximize my combat ability as long as I'm limited to those chassis, or other Light mechs I recieve via salvage?

Generally speaking:

Single versions of the lowest missile sizes (LRM-5 and SRM-2) just aren't worth the tonnage. When you're already using that missile type and want to squeeze in a couple of extra tubes, they're alright, but otherwise useless. Not only do they do little damage to begin with, you have to take an entire ton of ammo along with them.

This goes double if you're mixing missile systems. Putting LRMs and SRMs on the same chassis can work, but not with heavily skewed distributions.


On this note, pulling the SRM-2 on your Shadowhawk would allow you to upgrade the LRMs significantly (I was able to get to 10s and a 5 before switching to a 20++), or else give you enough tonnage to bring the jump jets to max.

Stripping the LRM-5 off your Vindicator for a couple more heat sinks would help a lot on hot planets, or you could add more armor to improve survivability.

[Drasius]

That's the one.


Anyways, Mech review. I've finished the first major story mission, so now I'm to the point where I can think about actually customizing my 'Mechs for better efficiency. Currently my lineup is:

Shadowhawk - LRM10, LRM5, SRM2, Medium Laser, 2 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Blackjack - AC2x2, Medium Laserx4, 4 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Centurion - Medium Laser x2, SRM6 x2, AC5, 4 Heat Sinks
Vindicator - LRM5, PPC, Medium Laser, Small Laser, 4 Jump Jets, 6 Heat Sinks
Spider - Medium Laser x2, 8x Jump Jets

What can I do to maximize my combat ability as long as I'm limited to those chassis, or other Light mechs I recieve via salvage?

The Vindy and the Spider are both pretty decent stock machines. You could maybe trade a JJ for another 1/2 ton of armour on the Spider, but I doubt it'd make much difference.

I had pretty reasonable success with 1x AC/5 and 4x ML's on the Blackjack (and keeping the JJ's).
The Centurion is probably best used as an LRM boat - strip everything off and jam as many 3 LRM racks on there as you can fit without stripping the armour. You can also run the stock loadout (AC/10, LRM10, 2x ML's) and it'll do well enough.
The Shadow Hawk, either do the same thing as the Cent and turn it into an LRM boat or you could run 2x SRM4's, and AC/5 and 5 JJ's. Alternatively, cram 2x SRM 6's, 1x SRM4 and 1x ML (still with 5 JJ's) and maybe a heat sink.

Use the Spider to sensor lock stuff for your LRM boat(s) while staying out of LoS, maybe occassionally pewpewing stuff with your lasers if it'll finsh them off and no other enemies are going to be in visual range. LRM boat(s) stay back and hover at the edge of "short' LRM range (where the brackets turn gold), anything left ranges in the middle jumping/walking between cover and either contributes to long range fire or interposes itself between the bad guys and the LRM boat(s).

Replace the Spider with a Jenner once you get one and you should be pretty set for quite a few missions.

Stay away from Large Lasers where possible until they do another balance pass, but other than that, cramming as many LRM's into a lance as possible is the most effective way to make life easy. More SRM's will get you more head hits as well as a bit of stability to make knockdowns easier too, and that' s the key to getting salvage. Each head hit causes an injury, as does each knockdown or destruction of a side torso. If you kill the pilot, you get 3 bits of salvage added to the post mission pool. If you remove both a 'mechs legs, you get 2 parts added to the pool, if you destroy the Centre Torso, it's only 1 part added to the pool. Early on you'll probably want to take mostly cash, but as soon as you're not in danger of going backrupt, try and get as much salvage as possible as it'll make getting bigger and better 'echs easier.

As tempting as it is however, don't play with your food too much, or the damage you take in repairs and injuries might outweigh getting a new toy.

Edit: If you want to use breaching shot, fewer, bigger LRM racks are better. If you want to go for head hits, more racks are better since, for LRMs only, only the first missile in each rack has a chance at hitting the head. Other multi-hit weapons (ie SRM's and Machine Guns) all roll each hit individually and call all hit the head. A pilot will only take 1 injury from head hits/side torso destruction/ammo explosions per activation though, but knockdown is seperate so each mech can only ever cause 2 pilot injuries per activation (unless you blow the head clean off, then it's just a plain old kill, no injuries needed).

[Olinser]

That's the one.


Anyways, Mech review. I've finished the first major story mission, so now I'm to the point where I can think about actually customizing my 'Mechs for better efficiency. Currently my lineup is:

Shadowhawk - LRM10, LRM5, SRM2, Medium Laser, 2 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Blackjack - AC2x2, Medium Laserx4, 4 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Centurion - Medium Laser x2, SRM6 x2, AC5, 4 Heat Sinks
Vindicator - LRM5, PPC, Medium Laser, Small Laser, 4 Jump Jets, 6 Heat Sinks
Spider - Medium Laser x2, 8x Jump Jets

What can I do to maximize my combat ability as long as I'm limited to those chassis, or other Light mechs I recieve via salvage?

In general - too many heat sinks, using high tonnage low output weapons that should never be taken like the SRM2, blending extreme close weapons with long range weapons when you're never going to use both, and seemingly random jump jet allocation.

You have jump jets on your LRM Shadow Hawk, which can generally stay well out of range of AI with regular movement, and you DON'T have jump jets on your close combat focused Centurion that wants to get in to range as fast as possible.

Shadowhawk is not a good setup. Get rid of the SRM2s, the heat sinks, and the jump jets for bigger LRMs. For a Shadow Hawk LRM boat you should have a pair of big LRMs, either a LRM 20+15 or 2x15s, and with just LRMs you generally don't even need extra heat sinks because you're not generating a lot of heat per turn.

Centurion - ok setup but not great, the AC/5 is really out of place. The MLaser SRM6 build is very viable but get a chassis with a better base (I like the Griffin for a Medium weight Mlaser/SRM build myself). If you're want to stick with the Centurion I'd advise getting rid of a couple heat sinks and probably an SRM6 and upgrade to an AC/20, go all in on the close combat high damage build.

Blackjack - Replace the AC/2s with an AC/10. Same tonnage, 60 damage on 1 location instead of 2 25 damage shots, and still respectable range. You won't be using the max range of an AC/2 anyway because with that many MLasers you want to close to get your full damage in and the AC/10 will be in range when you're closing for MLasers anyway.

You appear to be running a stock Vindicator. Don't. It's one of the worst stock setups in the game, building its entire profile around an unimpressive weapon in the PPC, with literally 1/4 of its available tonnage in heat sinks and jump jets (completely stripped is 16.5 tonnes so you only have 28.5 tonnes of equipment/armor to begin with and it uses EIGHT tonnes on heat sinks and jump jets), terrible damage, and middling armor. Honestly the Vindicator is just a terrible chassis to begin with its almost all energy slots and full energy weapons just isn't very good, ESPECIALLY on a Medium mech. Replace the chassis as soon as you can. Otherwise decide what you want - ranged energy or close energy. I'd probably suggest going close combat and junk the LRM for more MLasers. Vindicator just doesn't have the tonnage to pull off a long range energy sniper build because you can basically only get 2 PPCs and heat sinks and even with heat sinks you're going to run really hot so some rounds you'll be stuck firing only 1 - its that's just not a very good build since at the start you're shooting at mostly light mechs with high evasion, but it has its uses.

Spider - I mean there's just not much you can do with it other than replace it ASAP. The Spider chassis is just a really bad mech, it acts like it wants to jump in and shoot but its way too fragile with not enough damage to be a threat and no slots for more damage. Maybe replace 1 jump jet with 2 small lasers so you make it more likely a jump jet - back shot will actually core out a light mech, but get rid of it for a real mech as soon as you possibly can.

[Drasius]

You appear to be running a stock Vindicator. Don't. It's one of the worst stock setups in the game, building its entire profile around an unimpressive weapon in the PPC, with literally 1/4 of its available tonnage in heat sinks and jump jets (completely stripped is 16.5 tonnes so you only have 28.5 tonnes of equipment/armor to begin with and it uses EIGHT tonnes on heat sinks and jump jets), terrible damage, and middling armor. Honestly the Vindicator is just a terrible chassis to begin with its almost all energy slots and full energy weapons just isn't very good, ESPECIALLY on a Medium mech. Replace the chassis as soon as you can. Otherwise decide what you want - ranged energy or close energy. I'd probably suggest going close combat and junk the LRM for more MLasers. Vindicator just doesn't have the tonnage to pull off a long range energy sniper build because you can basically only get 2 PPCs and heat sinks and even with heat sinks you're going to run really hot so some rounds you'll be stuck firing only 1 - its that's just not a very good build since at the start you're shooting at mostly light mechs with high evasion, but it has its uses.

Later on it's ... not optimal, but early? That PPC packs a mean punch and will solve quite a few problems against relatively low armoured opponents. Will also heapcap reduced armour 'mechs which is a big help for salvage purposes.

If you're running a Sensor Lock pilot (and you probably should be if you're boating LRM's), the Vindy makes a pretty decent choice for it or, alternatively, as the second stringer who can hold midrange between your forward spotter and your boats.

I think you're selling the little-capellan-who-could rather short for an early game lancemate.

[Kaptin Keen]

PPC's are incredible. They flatten everything. At least at the point I'm at, just after the Argos.

AC/2's also seem to do pretty decent amounts of damage. If I could pack a bunch of them on a single mech, that would be something. Having two - even with rather decent damage for what they are - just doesn't seem to make an impression on anything but turrets. And maybe crawlers.

[Drasius]

PPC's are incredible. They flatten everything. At least at the point I'm at, just after the Argos.

AC/2's also seem to do pretty decent amounts of damage. If I could pack a bunch of them on a single mech, that would be something. Having two - even with rather decent damage for what they are - just doesn't seem to make an impression on anything but turrets. And maybe crawlers.

PPC's go through a weird cycle of being quite strong, down to pretty trash and back up to decent but not great. Against partially armoured stuff or light/medium, they're very effective but as soon as you start facing fully armoured heavies, they really lose their punch. Once you start packing multiple heavies and maybe an assault yourself, they go back to being decent since they do solid concentrated damage as well as some stability and can used for bracket firing rather than having to be the sole primary armament on a medium or low end heavy.

Try trading a pair of /2's for a single /5 (or even a single /10). The concentration of damage is worth the loss in ammo depth and a bit of range more often than not, though I did have a situation earlier today where I made use of the superior range on the /2.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

That's the one.


Anyways, Mech review. I've finished the first major story mission, so now I'm to the point where I can think about actually customizing my 'Mechs for better efficiency. Currently my lineup is:

Shadowhawk - LRM10, LRM5, SRM2, Medium Laser, 2 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Blackjack - AC2x2, Medium Laserx4, 4 Jump Jets, 2 Heat Sinks
Centurion - Medium Laser x2, SRM6 x2, AC5, 4 Heat Sinks
Vindicator - LRM5, PPC, Medium Laser, Small Laser, 4 Jump Jets, 6 Heat Sinks
Spider - Medium Laser x2, 8x Jump Jets

What can I do to maximize my combat ability as long as I'm limited to those chassis, or other Light mechs I recieve via salvage?My two cents, take 'em or leave 'em

For the Shadowhawk, dump that SRM/2, and the corresponding ammo. It's doing nothing for you. With this extra tonnage, you can boost the LRM/5 to an LRM/10 and have a decent early-game missile boat.

Blackjack: Nice for where you are, but it's going to eventually age. When those AC/2's aren't performing like champs anymore on fully armored upper-end mediums and heavies, swap them out for an AC/5 and an SRM/6.

Centurion is awesome. Don't touch a damn thing. The AC/5 has enough range that it can be a threat even when something doesn't close. And when something does close, you've got some extra punch.

For the Vindi... that LRM/5 is kinda bad, for reasons explained above. A single LRM/5 is not worth it by itself because missiles require a certain density before they become useful. So dump that and the ammo. That gives you three more tons to play with. Strip off that Small Laser, and you've got 3.5 tons. See if you can take off a single heat sink, and toss in an SRM/6, a ton of ammo, and a half ton of armor.

Stock spider is Stock, but you're going to want to upgrade to a Jenner as soon as you can find a chassis. But hey, for now, it's not bad for spotting things for your LRM boat and sensor locking to make things easier to hit, which at your current place in the game is actually relevant.

[Triaxx]

Is there another Blackjack variant? Because the starting one doesn't seem able to mount missiles. Or is this another one of those go play the story things?

[9mm]

Is there another Blackjack variant? Because the starting one doesn't seem able to mount missiles. Or is this another one of those go play the story things?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blackjack_(BattleMech)

bj-X would be a lost tech find, while the BJ-DB and BJ-DC I think are a refit away. In cannon it is 25 years till they start mounting missiles on a Blackjack.

[Triaxx]

Curiously enough I could retro-fit it with Flamers at the cost of two medium lasers. Would almost be worth it just for the All-range mode joke.

So no missiles. Ah well. Guess I'll retire it eventually.

[InvisibleBison]

Has anyone else noticed that the called shot hit percentages can be, well, wrong? I've repeatedly taken called shots with my Trebuchet (usually via the precise shot ability, if that matters) that have an 88% to 96% chance to hit a specific segment, only to find that while all 30 missiles hit, only a few actually hit the segment I shot at. Do the called shot percentages only apply to the first missile or something?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Breeching Shot, at least in campaign mode, is VERY valuable, since you get Multi-Target along the way, in clearing vehicles and turrets, which tend to have tons of armor but very little in the way of structure. Also good on mechs with a big punch weapon like an AC/10, AC/20, PPC, or *certain other* plot-relevant gear. Probably one of the best tier 2 skills available.

Granted, the Tactics tree is good as well, +1 initiative PLUS being able to clear stability damage by reserving? Can I get a 'hell yes'? But do NOT underestimate the power of Breeching Shot at being able to clear vehicles and turrets en masse. Not to mention stripping off a L/R Torso in one shot by bypassing Guarded with some of the heavier weapons around in your first round of combat.

[Hunter Noventa]

Breeching Shot, at least in campaign mode, is VERY valuable, since you get Multi-Target along the way, in clearing vehicles and turrets, which tend to have tons of armor but very little in the way of structure. Also good on mechs with a big punch weapon like an AC/10, AC/20, PPC, or *certain other* plot-relevant gear. Probably one of the best tier 2 skills available.

Granted, the Tactics tree is good as well, +1 initiative PLUS being able to clear stability damage by reserving? Can I get a 'hell yes'? But do NOT underestimate the power of Breeching Shot at being able to clear vehicles and turrets en masse. Not to mention stripping off a L/R Torso in one shot by bypassing Guarded with some of the heavier weapons around in your first round of combat.

Both trees are totally viable. And you want to pick up enough Guts for everyone to get that +1 health.

I've played a little more of the campaign and I'm still enjoying it. And I found my first few + rank weapons in the shop while jetting around for missions to beef up my finances. The Panther I cobbled together is now rocking a PPC+ and I have an LRM15+ waiting for something beefy enough to mount it on. I've yet to actually get anything heavier than the free Centurion or starting Shadowhawk. I could maybe fit it onto the latter, but I wouldn't have much space for anything else.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Both trees are totally viable. And you want to pick up enough Guts for everyone to get that +1 health.

I've played a little more of the campaign and I'm still enjoying it. And I found my first few + rank weapons in the shop while jetting around for missions to beef up my finances. The Panther I cobbled together is now rocking a PPC+ and I have an LRM15+ waiting for something beefy enough to mount it on. I've yet to actually get anything heavier than the free Centurion or starting Shadowhawk. I could maybe fit it onto the latter, but I wouldn't have much space for anything else.

The only probem I have with the Tactics tree is that it is kind of mutually exclusive. Tactics really is something you want on your missile boat, because of the reduction of indirect fire penalties. However, your missile boat is the LEAST likely to want to go first. You are wanting someone with some punch to start the ball and maybe strip armor somewhere or another so your missile barrage can have better chances of critting something. Granted, if he gets into an artillery duel with another LRM boat, he *might* need to take advantage of the stability heal from reserving, but it's not *that* likely.

But yea, +1 initiative is pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. Unfortunately, Breeching Shot is also pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. And they're mutually exclusive.

Every mech pilot, regardless of eventual spec, needs a MINIMUM of 4 guts for the extra hit point, and a high Gunnery skill to hit what they aim at. Once you get your abilities locked in, Gunnery is pretty much the optimal stat to dump xp into, unless the pilot is geared to running your LRM boat, in which case you want to cap Tactics first.

[Hunter Noventa]

The only probem I have with the Tactics tree is that it is kind of mutually exclusive. Tactics really is something you want on your missile boat, because of the reduction of indirect fire penalties. However, your missile boat is the LEAST likely to want to go first. You are wanting someone with some punch to start the ball and maybe strip armor somewhere or another so your missile barrage can have better chances of critting something. Granted, if he gets into an artillery duel with another LRM boat, he *might* need to take advantage of the stability heal from reserving, but it's not *that* likely.

But yea, +1 initiative is pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. Unfortunately, Breeching Shot is also pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. And they're mutually exclusive.

Every mech pilot, regardless of eventual spec, needs a MINIMUM of 4 guts for the extra hit point, and a high Gunnery skill to hit what they aim at. Once you get your abilities locked in, Gunnery is pretty much the optimal stat to dump xp into, unless the pilot is geared to running your LRM boat, in which case you want to cap Tactics first.

Oh I agree entirely, you don't need every tree for everyone. Though even a gunner as opposed to a missiler can get some benefit from Tactics since it also reduces the minimum range penalties that some non-missiles have.

Basically though, Breeching Shot for someone in a mech with a couple really big guns like PPCs, AC/20s and LLs, and Stability for someone with lots of smaller guns who's less likely to fire a single shot is probably a good balance.

Piloting could use a better passive benefit, though melee is great for getting rid of vehicles quickly.

[Triaxx]

I would have expected stability increasing under piloting to be honest.

[Drasius]

Has anyone else noticed that the called shot hit percentages can be, well, wrong? I've repeatedly taken called shots with my Trebuchet (usually via the precise shot ability, if that matters) that have an 88% to 96% chance to hit a specific segment, only to find that while all 30 missiles hit, only a few actually hit the segment I shot at. Do the called shot percentages only apply to the first missile or something?

LRM's have a special cluster system, so whereever the first missile hits, the rest of the salvo is very likely to hit the same location, fairly likely to hit adjacent locations and rather unlikely to hit anywhere else. IIRC, the weighting is 10:4:1. The only exception to this is that only the first missile in a salvo can hit the head and regardless if it hits the head or not, no other missile from that salvo will ever hit the head.


Both trees are totally viable. And you want to pick up enough Guts for everyone to get that +1 health.

I've played a little more of the campaign and I'm still enjoying it. And I found my first few + rank weapons in the shop while jetting around for missions to beef up my finances. The Panther I cobbled together is now rocking a PPC+ and I have an LRM15+ waiting for something beefy enough to mount it on. I've yet to actually get anything heavier than the free Centurion or starting Shadowhawk. I could maybe fit it onto the latter, but I wouldn't have much space for anything else.

The go-to build for min-maxing the Cent is stuffing 2x LRM 15's and an LRM 10 on there, so definately keep it handy.


The only probem I have with the Tactics tree is that it is kind of mutually exclusive. Tactics really is something you want on your missile boat, because of the reduction of indirect fire penalties. However, your missile boat is the LEAST likely to want to go first. You are wanting someone with some punch to start the ball and maybe strip armor somewhere or another so your missile barrage can have better chances of critting something. Granted, if he gets into an artillery duel with another LRM boat, he *might* need to take advantage of the stability heal from reserving, but it's not *that* likely.

But yea, +1 initiative is pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. Unfortunately, Breeching Shot is also pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. And they're mutually exclusive.

Every mech pilot, regardless of eventual spec, needs a MINIMUM of 4 guts for the extra hit point, and a high Gunnery skill to hit what they aim at. Once you get your abilities locked in, Gunnery is pretty much the optimal stat to dump xp into, unless the pilot is geared to running your LRM boat, in which case you want to cap Tactics first.

Actually, you want your missile boats to go first so they can get the knockdown and the rest of your mechs can have their called shots or bypass evasion/guarded.

I'd also say that anything past gunnery ~6 or so feels like overkill since you start with 75% accuracy base and you gain -1 for over half morale, -1 for arm mounts, -1 from higher elevation and effectively -1 per 2 gunnery points, so at gunnery 6, you're at 105% accuracy before any malus. Then you've also got -1 for any laser weapons and any accuracy bonus from +/++/+++ gear. That last couple of points just doesn't feel "worth it" compared to how amazing Guts is.

I always max Guts after getting my chosen piloting skills because +30 heat limit (taking you from 60 to 90 on your overheat bar before you take damage) and +3 health is amazing, then usually tactics for LRM boaters or anything with a min range. Getting Piloting to 6 for the stability increase is probably about as far as I usually go before ignoring it, but that can wait quite a while if you're playing smart.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, you want your missile boats to go first so they can get the knockdown and the rest of your mechs can have their called shots or bypass evasion/guarded.Or I can start off with a mech with Breeching Shot, unsteady that way, then have my missile mechs clean up. Also, you assume more than one missile boat, which I very rarely do, simply because I don't want half my mechs shooting themselves completely dry half-way through a mission. And one missile boat cannot knockdown, it can only Unsteady, no matter how much stability damage is handed out, unless it is already first Unsteady.


I'd also say that anything past gunnery ~6 or so feels like overkill since you start with 75% accuracy base and you gain -1 for over half morale, -1 for arm mounts, -1 from higher elevation and effectively -1 per 2 gunnery points, so at gunnery 6, you're at 105% accuracy before any malus. Then you've also got -1 for any laser weapons and any accuracy bonus from +/++/+++ gear. That last couple of points just doesn't feel "worth it" compared to how amazing Guts is.Evasion Chevrons are a very frequent thing. And unlike OpFor which can field dozens of units, I only have four units, so EC's are always going to favor the enemy.

Well, at least until late-mid to late game when all you ever see are assaults, I suppose...


I always max Guts after getting my chosen piloting skills because +30 heat limit (taking you from 60 to 90 on your overheat bar before you take damage) and +3 health is amazing, then usually tactics for LRM boaters or anything with a min range. Getting Piloting to 6 for the stability increase is probably about as far as I usually go before ignoring it, but that can wait quite a while if you're playing smart.The heat limit bonus isn't bad, don't get me wrong, and the +3 health can be amazing. However, in general, if I'm needing more than 4 hit points, I'm already probably already screwed, so the only thing extra hit points really does is reduce the med bay time.

[Alent]

Up on the Desert Ammo Depot story mission, I found a rather odd solution to it last night that I thought was interesting.

My lineup:
Quickdraw (QKD-4G) LRM15, LL, ML++ (This configuration was born of a low cash, running outta parts refit, I was running low on parts at the time and haven't managed to create the money, time, and resources to fix it.)
Wolverine (WVR-6K) Stock (I hate this mech, but it's one of my heaviest)
Shadow Hawk (SHD-2H) LL, SRM4, SRM6, SRM6 (Ghetto Jenner. I'm thinking I need to unify the ranges on it, the LL sees a lot of use shooting turrets.)
Panther (PNT-9R) Stock. (I mean... it's an Alleycat. I saw it in the store at the beginning of the game and nearly game overed to get it to replace the spider)

My strategy:

Early:
The Panther does a mad dash of mixed sprints and jumpjet + brace movements to be in just the right place to hit the ammo crate for the first ammo truck, and to DFA the second ammo truck.

The Shadowhawk moves left to plink away at the spider and harrass the laser turret, the Quickdraw and Wolverine move up to the ridgeline to destroy the crate that ends both LRM batteries, drawing fire. I got lucky and headshotted the Locust somewhere in here.

Mid:

Position as needed to bait the Thunderbolt and Dragon into crates while smashing the lights with called shots. The Firestarter survived, but it lost both arms and all three flamers really early on and I ended up leaving it for last. For some reason the lights will try to avoid walking up on the ridge if you're on both sides of it, but will try to run up the ridge near the turret otherwise. I ended up exploiting this behavior with the SRMhawk, just bouncing up and down from ridge to mesa, harassing different targets with mixed LL/SRM fire as I went.

Meanwhile, the Panther jumps up onto the ridgeline overlooking the road and ammo depot to snipe ammo crates, providing sensor locks and PPC longshots as needed.

the way the middle turns went down for me, I was able to heavily damage the Dragon and Thunderbolts with one crate, frag the Dragon and Jenner with another, and enemy Cicada ended up falling over at a spot where the SRMhawk could step on it's head.

End:

I had to focus fire the Thunderbolt down to keep it from ripping everyone apart. At one point to make it less annoying, I decided to called shot the enemy panther's right torso, shearing the PPC arm clear off. The enemy Spider, Firestarter, and Panther ended up taking stupid long amounts of time to kill. In the end I finally got frustrated at the Spider somehow managing to houdini its way out of damage and just started DFAing and meleeing it with the SRMhawk and Panther until it died and they both lost a leg each.

Everything needed massive internal repairs and at least one new limb, but I got the whole Cicada and a piece of the thunderbolt as salvage, leaving me one Tbolt kill away from having one of my own. I also got two pieces of the Dragon from RNGsalvage, so I'll probably finish it up with buying one from the store after the next story mission.

It didn't get me perfect mission rewards, but 4/8 ammo crates, both ammo trucks, and the regular mission bounty were still nice.

Loving the game overall, but I'm also getting extremely irritated by some of these story mission designs. I think that's because I spend too much time in S/RPGs that are designed to be solved as puzzles in low turn counts and just expect that of turn based strategy in general. I didn't realize what was going on until the moon mission with the dropship, wherein I was able to pop the dropship some 3 or 4 turns in, then found myself facing BOTH the stripped down guard detail and the prize squadron with the ghetto Marauder... and promptly realized I wasn't supposed to be racing the map like a Valkyria Chronicles or Advance Wars map.

I need to figure out a better way to approach that moon map, tho'. The Sniper turret on the backup generator is expensive to deal with on the mech budget I have.

[Olinser]

The only probem I have with the Tactics tree is that it is kind of mutually exclusive. Tactics really is something you want on your missile boat, because of the reduction of indirect fire penalties. However, your missile boat is the LEAST likely to want to go first. You are wanting someone with some punch to start the ball and maybe strip armor somewhere or another so your missile barrage can have better chances of critting something. Granted, if he gets into an artillery duel with another LRM boat, he *might* need to take advantage of the stability heal from reserving, but it's not *that* likely.

But yea, +1 initiative is pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. Unfortunately, Breeching Shot is also pretty sweet on your brawler or big-hit mechs. And they're mutually exclusive.

Every mech pilot, regardless of eventual spec, needs a MINIMUM of 4 guts for the extra hit point, and a high Gunnery skill to hit what they aim at. Once you get your abilities locked in, Gunnery is pretty much the optimal stat to dump xp into, unless the pilot is geared to running your LRM boat, in which case you want to cap Tactics first.

You do understand that you can reserve and not move first, right? +1 initiative is never a liability because you don't have to move. If you want him to move later, reserve him to the next phase. The extra initiative gives you the option for exactly where you want it moving and shooting.

And as has already been mentioned, heavy missile boats you want first for the knockdown. You have to have a minimum of 2 different mechs hit to make a knockdown, so if you're not making a called shot center torso, you want your missile boat first to max the bar and Unsteady them, then cherry tap with 1 multi shot missile or AC to knock it down for a finisher.

Breaching Shot is a sometimes-useful skill, but is ONLY useful if an enemy mech is guarded/covered, and cover isn't a big enough damage reduction to worry about it in general. The amount of times you have to shoot at a Guarded mech without another target available are really low. In multiplayer it's almost mandatory to counter guard/reserving though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You do understand that you can reserve and not move first, right? +1 initiative is never a liability because you don't have to move. If you want him to move later, reserve him to the next phase. The extra initiative gives you the option for exactly where you want it moving and shooting.You do realize that if you are reserving every turn, there's zero benefit to +1 initiative, right?

I didn't say it had *no* use, I just said it was *less* useful for a missile boat than for a gunner. And it is.


And as has already been mentioned, heavy missile boats you want first for the knockdown. You have to have a minimum of 2 different mechs hit to make a knockdown, so if you're not making a called shot center torso, you want your missile boat first to max the bar and Unsteady them, then cherry tap with 1 multi shot missile or AC to knock it down for a finisher.Or I can simply unsteady them with one of my gunner or brawler mechs, then get the knockdown, potentially with location breeching crits along the way, with the missile boat. More than one mech has been instantly killed by getting two shoulders and a knockdown for a three point pilot kill using my methodology. I see no reason to not continue it.


Breaching Shot is a sometimes-useful skill, but is ONLY useful if an enemy mech is guarded/covered, and cover isn't a big enough damage reduction to worry about it in general. The amount of times you have to shoot at a Guarded mech without another target available are really low. In multiplayer it's almost mandatory to counter guard/reserving though.Breeching Shot is a great opener, on your first salvo, when your opponent is sitting just out of reach and entrenched. Then you walk up, ignore his cover, knock him unsteady, and paint a target for your LRM boat to finish the job. VERY frequently, the mechs will just hover out of reach, baiting you into attacking fully Guarded mechs so they can return fire. Breeching Shot negates their strategy.

So I will have to respectfully, but firmly, disagree.

Also, for some reason, Breeching Shot seems to currently bypass armor when shooting vehicles, or at least it always seems to every time I use it. Maybe I'm just getting lucky turret crits or something every single time I fire? I dunno, but I end up with a vehicle with several hundred armor left, completely destroyed in a single shot. And it always happens with Breeching Shot. Maybe a bug that should be reported?

[Drasius]

Or I can start off with a mech with Breeching Shot, unsteady that way, then have my missile mechs clean up. Also, you assume more than one missile boat, which I very rarely do, simply because I don't want half my mechs shooting themselves completely dry half-way through a mission. And one missile boat cannot knockdown, it can only Unsteady, no matter how much stability damage is handed out, unless it is already first Unsteady.

Evasion Chevrons are a very frequent thing. And unlike OpFor which can field dozens of units, I only have four units, so EC's are always going to favor the enemy.

Well, at least until late-mid to late game when all you ever see are assaults, I suppose...

The heat limit bonus isn't bad, don't get me wrong, and the +3 health can be amazing. However, in general, if I'm needing more than 4 hit points, I'm already probably already screwed, so the only thing extra hit points really does is reduce the med bay time.

Can't have Breaching Shot and Master Tactician though, so you spam LRM's first, then multi-shot your breaching shot into the now unstable mech (knocking it down) as well as pewpewing another target.

As for shooting your LRM boats dry, you know you can take more than 1 tonne of ammo, right? Not once have I ever run out of missiles, I ran dry twice in my first playthough (920 days), both of those was AC/10 rounds and both times it was on the last combat round. Ammo conservation is pretty unimportant given the silly high accuracy in the game.

Yep, and early on when you face lights who can and will generate a decent amount of evasion, that might matter, but fortunately, enemies love all evasion on becoming unsteady, so fire up your LRM's first and then life is easy. Also a solid reason to have at least 1 big LRM rack on your breaching shot pilot so they can put the LRM's into your missile boat target and sit them down while still working on something else. Should almost always hit too since the target should be unsteady from already eating 40+ LRMs. Having your scout lob a token shot at something if they don't need to sensor lock is also handy. For the longest time, I had Dekker in a Griffon and he'd happily send a flight of missiles and a PPC at something rather than sensor locking it since that added stability was a nice little bonus if he was already in a good position.

The later you get in the campaign, the less evasion matters (and the less important gunnery is to an extent), which is why I think that gunnery over ~6 can easily wait.

As for needing more than 4 health, well, I've had numerous occasions where my guys have been down to 1 health from 6 (and sometimes even with cockpit mods), but that's mainly due to going brawler heavy and making exessive use of Bulwark leading to extended tanking by 1 mech. If you're playing like a coward Marik cheesemonger tactician and spamming LRM's from out of LoS using a Sensor Lock spotter, then yeah, you're not going to notice the difference because you won't really be taking return fire.

[Olinser]

Up on the Desert Ammo Depot story mission, I found a rather odd solution to it last night that I thought was interesting.

My lineup:
Quickdraw (QKD-4G) LRM15, LL, ML++ (This configuration was born of a low cash, running outta parts refit, I was running low on parts at the time and haven't managed to create the money, time, and resources to fix it.)
Wolverine (WVR-6K) Stock (I hate this mech, but it's one of my heaviest)
Shadow Hawk (SHD-2H) LL, SRM4, SRM6, SRM6 (Ghetto Jenner. I'm thinking I need to unify the ranges on it, the LL sees a lot of use shooting turrets.)
Panther (PNT-9R) Stock. (I mean... it's an Alleycat. I saw it in the store at the beginning of the game and nearly game overed to get it to replace the spider)

My strategy:

Early:
The Panther does a mad dash of mixed sprints and jumpjet + brace movements to be in just the right place to hit the ammo crate for the first ammo truck, and to DFA the second ammo truck.

The Shadowhawk moves left to plink away at the spider and harrass the laser turret, the Quickdraw and Wolverine move up to the ridgeline to destroy the crate that ends both LRM batteries, drawing fire. I got lucky and headshotted the Locust somewhere in here.

Mid:

Position as needed to bait the Thunderbolt and Dragon into crates while smashing the lights with called shots. The Firestarter survived, but it lost both arms and all three flamers really early on and I ended up leaving it for last. For some reason the lights will try to avoid walking up on the ridge if you're on both sides of it, but will try to run up the ridge near the turret otherwise. I ended up exploiting this behavior with the SRMhawk, just bouncing up and down from ridge to mesa, harassing different targets with mixed LL/SRM fire as I went.

Meanwhile, the Panther jumps up onto the ridgeline overlooking the road and ammo depot to snipe ammo crates, providing sensor locks and PPC longshots as needed.

the way the middle turns went down for me, I was able to heavily damage the Dragon and Thunderbolts with one crate, frag the Dragon and Jenner with another, and enemy Cicada ended up falling over at a spot where the SRMhawk could step on it's head.

End:

I had to focus fire the Thunderbolt down to keep it from ripping everyone apart. At one point to make it less annoying, I decided to called shot the enemy panther's right torso, shearing the PPC arm clear off. The enemy Spider, Firestarter, and Panther ended up taking stupid long amounts of time to kill. In the end I finally got frustrated at the Spider somehow managing to houdini its way out of damage and just started DFAing and meleeing it with the SRMhawk and Panther until it died and they both lost a leg each.

Everything needed massive internal repairs and at least one new limb, but I got the whole Cicada and a piece of the thunderbolt as salvage, leaving me one Tbolt kill away from having one of my own. I also got two pieces of the Dragon from RNGsalvage, so I'll probably finish it up with buying one from the store after the next story mission.

It didn't get me perfect mission rewards, but 4/8 ammo crates, both ammo trucks, and the regular mission bounty were still nice.

Loving the game overall, but I'm also getting extremely irritated by some of these story mission designs. I think that's because I spend too much time in S/RPGs that are designed to be solved as puzzles in low turn counts and just expect that of turn based strategy in general. I didn't realize what was going on until the moon mission with the dropship, wherein I was able to pop the dropship some 3 or 4 turns in, then found myself facing BOTH the stripped down guard detail and the prize squadron with the ghetto Marauder... and promptly realized I wasn't supposed to be racing the map like a Valkyria Chronicles or Advance Wars map.

I need to figure out a better way to approach that moon map, tho'. The Sniper turret on the backup generator is expensive to deal with on the mech budget I have.

Yes racing the map is usually a recipe for losing a lot. In the vast majority of missions (generally anything that doesn't involve 'Protect' or 'Do X in X turns') enemy mechs and vehicles don't even move until you enter combat, which doesn't happen until you either visually see an enemy, or end a turn in sensor range of an enemy. Also 95% of missions will immediately end if you have accomplished the objective and killed all enemies on the map - so it can actually be faster to finish off enemies than taking turns moving back to the evac zone.

Especially early on when you have relatively fragile mechs, the best strategy is generally moving 1 mech forward a regular move (not sprint), see if he can see an enemy on sensors, if he doesn't sprint everybody up to the same spot, then next turn move forward again. If you do see an enemy on sensor, move as close as you can without being in visual range so you get full movement, then combat triggers and you get full movement for everybody as normal. Alternately you can keep long range mechs way back, move 1 mech to extreme edge of sensor range, and Sensor Lock to immediately trigger combat and the AI will tend to rush forward trying to get to you, well away from slow vehicles or turrets.

[Drasius]

Also, for some reason, Breeching Shot seems to currently bypass armor when shooting vehicles, or at least it always seems to every time I use it. Maybe I'm just getting lucky turret crits or something every single time I fire? I dunno, but I end up with a vehicle with several hundred armor left, completely destroyed in a single shot. And it always happens with Breeching Shot. Maybe a bug that should be reported?

I'd suggest that it's due to you using a fat damage weapon that cores a section rather than the usual of spreading damage out all over the little buggers. Certain tanks heave a weak section too, for example, you can 1-shot even some of the heavier tanks if you hit the rights spot on the turret ring. Alternatively, you're shooting them from behind as almost all tanks heave weaker rear armour (just like 'mechs).

Also, there's no crits on tanks (unlike in TT), you either destroy their IS and they die or you don't and they soldier on. There's nothing more frustrating that spewing damage left, right and centre only to watch the little ball of mischief roll on with <10 armour on every location. Big guns are best vs tanks due to them packing far more armour per location than a 'mech of equivalent weight.

[Olinser]

You do realize that if you are reserving every turn, there's zero benefit to +1 initiative, right?

I didn't say it had *no* use, I just said it was *less* useful for a missile boat than for a gunner. And it is.

Or I can simply unsteady them with one of my gunner or brawler mechs, then get the knockdown, potentially with location breeching crits along the way, with the missile boat. More than one mech has been instantly killed by getting two shoulders and a knockdown for a three point pilot kill using my methodology. I see no reason to not continue it.

Breeching Shot is a great opener, on your first salvo, when your opponent is sitting just out of reach and entrenched. Then you walk up, ignore his cover, knock him unsteady, and paint a target for your LRM boat to finish the job. VERY frequently, the mechs will just hover out of reach, baiting you into attacking fully Guarded mechs so they can return fire. Breeching Shot negates their strategy.

So I will have to respectfully, but firmly, disagree.

Also, for some reason, Breeching Shot seems to currently bypass armor when shooting vehicles, or at least it always seems to every time I use it. Maybe I'm just getting lucky turret crits or something every single time I fire? I dunno, but I end up with a vehicle with several hundred armor left, completely destroyed in a single shot. And it always happens with Breeching Shot. Maybe a bug that should be reported?

Reading comprehension. You don't HAVE to move. It gives you the OPTION of always moving first. You dictate the order you want your mechs to move. When its beneficial you use it, when it's not beneficial you don't use it. It gives you total control over when it is useful, and especially when you have all your mechs in the same class and all your pilots with it, you ALWAYS pick your order and move faster than the entire enemy same class mechs. Having 4 pilots in Heavies all moving at the same time as enemy Mediums makes most missions a cakewalk.

Enemy AI mechs are rarely entrenched if you are moving first, because most of the time they don't move until combat is actually initiated, and And they don't hover out of reach guarding. They don't guard unless they have moved and cannot shoot or sensor lock ANYTHING. Ergo, if you move first, they haven't guarded in the first place and you can alpha strike kill them instead of taking potshots with breaching shot.

Breaching shot's usefulness is completely dictated by the behavior of the AI, which can already be manipulated so they don't guard, especially in the campaign its incredibly rare you should actually be having to shoot a guarded mech. I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've had to shoot a guarded mech - and that was in missions that they were for some reason trying to move past me without shooting at me (and I just back armor cored them through guarding), or when I'd already killed everything else and their back mech moved forward and didn't have sensor lock. Which was fine I just killed him anyway before he shot.

Your strategy with knockdowns means you use 2 full rounds of firing for a knockdown with MAYBE a location breaching crit - IF the mech has something that would actually blow it off and IF you get a crit. Doing it the other way means you use your missile boat and 1 weapon for a knockdown and have the rest of your brawler damage on another target. Either way you still need a 3rd mech for the kill and side torso blowouts don't really increase the odds of actually coring them out with the 3rd mech since you still need a CT penetration.

Vehicles are a victim of the rather poor display of armor/structure with the fact that a structure penetration on ANY point on the vehicle kills it turret/side/front/rear it doesn't matter, it dies. Couple that with an extremely high chance to hit the one side of the armor you are facing, which effectively gives you a called shot, and as soon as you penetrate it dies - usually with hundreds of armor completely intact because you haven't touched the rear/front/side you aren't hitting that have 100+ armor. You can do the same thing with mechs with a called shot center torso that cores them out - its perfectly possible to called shot CT kill heavy/assault mechs with over 1000 armor still active on the rest of the mech that you haven't touched. It's just much rarer on mechs because that only happens with called shots or rear armor shots, while on vehicles it just happens because there's so little target areas to spread shots so you already have focused fire on a kill point. Think how many mechs lost torso/arm/legs before dying - if mechs used the vehicle rules instead of losing a limb or a torso/arm, they die.

[Drasius]

Reading comprehension. You don't HAVE to move. It gives you the OPTION of always moving first. You dictate the order you want your mechs to move. When its beneficial you use it, when it's not beneficial you don't use it. It gives you total control over when it is useful, and especially when you have all your mechs in the same class and all your pilots with it, you ALWAYS pick your order and move faster than the entire enemy same class mechs. Having 4 pilots in Heavies all moving at the same time as enemy Mediums makes most missions a cakewalk.

Enemy AI mechs are rarely entrenched if you are moving first, because most of the time they don't move until combat is actually initiated, and And they don't hover out of reach guarding. They don't guard unless they have moved and cannot shoot or sensor lock ANYTHING. Ergo, if you move first, they haven't guarded in the first place and you can alpha strike kill them instead of taking potshots with breaching shot.

Breaching shot's usefulness is completely dictated by the behavior of the AI, which can already be manipulated so they don't guard, especially in the campaign its incredibly rare you should actually be having to shoot a guarded mech. I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I've had to shoot a guarded mech - and that was in missions that they were for some reason trying to move past me without shooting at me (and I just back armor cored them through guarding), or when I'd already killed everything else and their back mech moved forward and didn't have sensor lock. Which was fine I just killed him anyway before he shot.

Your strategy with knockdowns means you use 2 full rounds of firing for a knockdown with MAYBE a location breaching crit - IF the mech has something that would actually blow it off and IF you get a crit. Doing it the other way means you use your missile boat and 1 weapon for a knockdown and have the rest of your brawler damage on another target. Either way you still need a 3rd mech for the kill and side torso blowouts don't really increase the odds of actually coring them out with the 3rd mech since you still need a CT penetration.

Vehicles are a victim of the rather poor display of armor/structure with the fact that a structure penetration on ANY point on the vehicle kills it turret/side/front/rear it doesn't matter, it dies. Couple that with an extremely high chance to hit the one side of the armor you are facing, which effectively gives you a called shot, and as soon as you penetrate it dies - usually with hundreds of armor completely intact because you haven't touched the rear/front/side you aren't hitting that have 100+ armor. You can do the same thing with mechs with a called shot center torso that cores them out - its perfectly possible to called shot CT kill heavy/assault mechs with over 1000 armor still active on the rest of the mech that you haven't touched. It's just much rarer on mechs because that only happens with called shots or rear armor shots, while on vehicles it just happens because there's so little target areas to spread shots so you already have focused fire on a kill point. Think how many mechs lost torso/arm/legs before dying - if mechs used the vehicle rules instead of losing a limb or a torso/arm, they die.

1st, don't make me remind you two to play nice again.

2nd Breaching Shot comes into its own when you start facing enemy pilots with Bulwark, when enemy pilots also have Master Tactician or just when you're running heavier 'mechs in general.

Vees are an interesting one as they had to nerf them to make them stop outshining 'mechs (and even then a swarm of Savannah Masters will humble it's equivalent C-bill cost in 'mechs). If you've ever tried to take out a heavy vehicle with multiple small/medium damage weapons, you'll know just how frustrating it can get to split half you shots against front/side armour and still have loads of protection to try and blow through. The various APC's featured here in this game are particularly frustrating at times given the incredibly short visual ranges, very high armour and long travel distance per turn.

[Triaxx]

And any number of Shreck's is rage inducing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Vees are an interesting one as they had to nerf them to make them stop outshining 'mechs (and even then a swarm of Savannah Masters will humble it's equivalent C-bill cost in 'mechs). If you've ever tried to take out a heavy vehicle with multiple small/medium damage weapons, you'll know just how frustrating it can get to split half you shots against front/side armour and still have loads of protection to try and blow through. The various APC's featured here in this game are particularly frustrating at times given the incredibly short visual ranges, very high armour and long travel distance per turn.Yea, reliable kills on vehicles require either heavy weapons (PPC or AC/10 or AC/20) or a melee attack (which deals double damage). Otherwise, they're annoyingly well armored.

In other news, I got an Arm Actuator that gives +30 melee damage, at the cost of 6 tons. Call it what you like, I'm gonna call it a hatchet, even if it doesn't render as one. This is going on my Grasshopper as a dedicated brawler/vehicle stomper. May have to drop the AC/20 down to an AC/10 and strip out an SRM/6 to accommodate it, but that's okay... I have a really nice AC/10++ with bonus damage and bonus stability damage, and the extra range isn't going to hurt one little bit.

[Mechalich]

You can do the same thing with mechs with a called shot center torso that cores them out - its perfectly possible to called shot CT kill heavy/assault mechs with over 1000 armor still active on the rest of the mech that you haven't touched. It's just much rarer on mechs because that only happens with called shots or rear armor shots

I wouldn't even call it rare. By the time you graduate to heavies/assaults called shot CT is one of the go to strategies along side knockdown + free called shot follow ups on downed mechs. By the end of the game, when you roll out with 45+ morale you roll into combat with 2 precise shots ready to go, and as you start compiling kills you get more. Also, if you take advantage of the high spirits glitch (which amusingly seems to impact Glitch the most) you can stretch this further, though that will hopefully be fixed soon.

Attempting to take down assault mechs the old fashioned way is largely wasteful. A fairly well-armed assault such as a Highlander or Victor with high gunnery and max tactics (and thereby called shot mastery) can blow a leg off an enemy assault with a full salvo the majority of the time. A second mech can then blast the other leg to bits. This allows you to take down an assault by doing around 500 total damage as opposed to the 1500 damage you might have to do with straightforward attacks.

A high-powered assault mech with master called shot is pretty much guaranteed to destroy any medium mech with an alpha strike precise shot at the CT and has a very good chance of destroying any lightly armored heavy like a Jagermech or Quickdraw. With ++ weapons containing damage boosts you can even go for 70+ ton mechs like Grasshoppers and Cataphracts this way.


The various APC's featured here in this game are particularly frustrating at times given the incredibly short visual ranges, very high armour and long travel distance per turn.

I wish there was some way to 'block the road' on APCs and other vehicles, particularly in certain missions, to reduce their ability to just blow by your squad.

[Drasius]

Yea, reliable kills on vehicles require either heavy weapons (PPC or AC/10 or AC/20) or a melee attack (which deals double damage). Otherwise, they're annoyingly well armored.

In other news, I got an Arm Actuator that gives +30 melee damage, at the cost of 6 tons. Call it what you like, I'm gonna call it a hatchet, even if it doesn't render as one. This is going on my Grasshopper as a dedicated brawler/vehicle stomper. May have to drop the AC/20 down to an AC/10 and strip out an SRM/6 to accommodate it, but that's okay... I have a really nice AC/10++ with bonus damage and bonus stability damage, and the extra range isn't going to hurt one little bit.

Just FYI, those arm actuators can stack, leading to well over 200 melee damage, enough to put even a TSM'ed Berserker to shame. Goes surprisingly well on a Banshee.

[9mm]

Just FYI, those arm actuators can stack, leading to well over 200 melee damage, enough to put even a TSM'ed Berserker to shame. Goes surprisingly well on a Banshee.

oh the Beserker, I miss your glorious head mounted flamer...

[Drasius]

oh the Beserker, I miss your glorious head mounted flamer...

As much as I love me some 3025, being my favourite era and all, part of me pines for a Hauptman with that cheeky little cigar small laser.

[Gnoman]

As much as I love me some 3025, being my favourite era and all, part of me pines for a Hauptman with that cheeky little cigar small laser.

You might want to see this (https://giphy.com/gifs/look-play-VQBEi3lLmu3Qc), then.

[The Glyphstone]

What benefits come with building reputation with different factions? I know it gives you discounts in their stores, but who sells what that is worth focusing on?

[Drasius]

What benefits come with building reputation with different factions? I know it gives you discounts in their stores, but who sells what that is worth focusing on?

Getting to allied gives access to certain missions and IIRC, you only get above 3 skull contracts at Allied.

Beyond that, the "best" store is, IIRC, New Vandenberg, which is in Taurian Space and available very early in the story. I don't think any faction has anything locked to them (that's not how the factions work), but the planet traits each have an effect on what they can sell and how often desirable gear and mech parts will turn up. The traits you're looking for are basically Rich, Manufacturing, Inner Sphere level civilisation and Research. Former Star League Influence, Ruins and Black Market can all end up with better chances at +/++/+++ gear and IIRC, larger populations have better odds for more stuff as well.

[Triaxx]

Plus higher rep gives bonus money for missions completed.

[Kaptin Keen]

So, the game is easily slow enough as is - has anyone found a way to get rid of logo's and cutscenes on start-up, and that always-identical cutscene every time I travel to a new system?

[Olinser]

So, the game is easily slow enough as is - has anyone found a way to get rid of logo's and cutscenes on start-up, and that always-identical cutscene every time I travel to a new system?

Push ESC and skip it.

The only one that can't be skipped is the Jump cutscene - and I'm about 95% convinced its a disguised loading screen for the system you're jumping to anyway.

[Kaptin Keen]

Push ESC and skip it.

I hope to god it's obvious that's not the answer to the question I asked.

[Triaxx]

Logos no, Cutscene yes. If you press a button during it, a message pops up in the top left and tells you to hit escape.

[Kaptin Keen]

I cut this from another forum. Behold, an answer:


I don't skip the cutscenes but i do make the travel time go very fast. The true beauty of this game is that it's very easy to mod. I recommend notepade ++, it's free and is an amazing tool for many things.

ok so the file you are looking for is in (for me):

C:\Program Files(x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\BATTLETECH\Battl etech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\simGameConstants\S imGameConstants

1)Open SimGameConstants with notepad++

2)Look for:

"Travel" : {

"DefaultSystemTravelTime" : 4,
"DefaultFuelTime" : 3,
"FuelStationFuelTime" : 3,
}

2)change those 3 values each to 1

3)Next look for time:

"Time" : {

"DayElapseTimeSlow" : 3,
"DayElapseTimeNormal" : 1.25,
"DayElapseTimeFast" : 0.5
},

change the 3 to a 1, the 1.25 to a .5, and the 0.5 to a .2

These are just the values I use, but you can make them faster or slower depending on the values. They do make the cut scenes easier to endure, since the days past very fast when traveling between planets.

Between this and the debug speed option during battles, the game pacing is much more enjoyable, and should have been options in the release instead of having to mod to get them.

EDIT: Posted this further down in the comments but I'll combine it here as well.

Using the debug menu to activate speed makes battle pacing much better, and it only takes one line to put into your Registry to bring the menu up during any battle.

These instructions are for Windows 7:

1) Windows key+R to bring up run

2) Type regedit and hit enter

3)Go into HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/Harebrained Schemes/BATTLETECH

4)right click between any of the registries in here to add a new entry, select DWORD as the type

5)call it "last_debug_state_h176629417"

6) give it a value of 1

7) and you are all set

Now whenever you go into combat hit "CTRL" + "SHIFT" + "-" to bring up the debug menu. In that menu is a bunch of tempting stuff to use, but what you want to do is resist that, just select the speed button, then CTRL+SHIFT+minus again to close it, and you will now have very fast travel time making the game much more enjoyable then the snail pace the game sets.

You're Welcome.

Enjoy.

It's not the answer I need. But then, it's not 'press esc' either.

[Drasius]

So, the game is easily slow enough as is - has anyone found a way to get rid of logo's and cutscenes on start-up, and that always-identical cutscene every time I travel to a new system?


Push ESC and skip it.

The only one that can't be skipped is the Jump cutscene - and I'm about 95% convinced its a disguised loading screen for the system you're jumping to anyway.


I hope to god it's obvious that's not the answer to the question I asked.

Sounds like exactly the answer to one of the questions you asked, as well as an accurate answer to the other parts too.

Just to reiterate what Olinser said, no, there's no way to skip the dropship & jumpship scenes at this time, you're stuck looking at your transport(s) flying through space/jumping to another system while you wait for the random event timer to kick in or until you get to your destination.

[Kaptin Keen]

I didn't ask if they could be skipped. I'm not retarded, I know what esc does. I asked if they could be gotten rid of. Removed for good and ever - not in so many ways, but I wasn't aware it could be misunderstood.

In other words: Remove the videos, modify the ini file, stuff of that order.

Not 'press esc'.

I feel any basis for misunderstanding has now been removed. Can we move on?

[Erloas]

Well I appear to be one of the "it doesn't work" group. I knew I was on the low end of the requirements, but I think it is something else. Mostly because my GPU usage never leaves 0%, except when the game is first loading, and my RAM usage and CPU usage never cap out either. CPU sits at about 60-70% the entire time, RAM was similar, hard drive wasn't being used much either.
A match would load, and once or twice something would move, but for the most part it didn't act like it was registering anything that I was doing. Screen wouldn't pan, although every once in a while it would jump to some other view point.

Got FRAPs to run finally and the framerate was fine during all videos and during load screens and the initial pick your character thing. But the faces didn't actually render, just the outline. The 'Mech rendered just fine in the initial "select your emblem and color scheme" thing though. Once the map loaded the framerate dropped to 0 and stayed there, GPU usage did as well. So its not like it was struggling to run, it just wasn't trying to run at all.

[Drasius]

Well I appear to be one of the "it doesn't work" group. I knew I was on the low end of the requirements, but I think it is something else. Mostly because my GPU usage never leaves 0%, except when the game is first loading, and my RAM usage and CPU usage never cap out either. CPU sits at about 60-70% the entire time, RAM was similar, hard drive wasn't being used much either.
A match would load, and once or twice something would move, but for the most part it didn't act like it was registering anything that I was doing. Screen wouldn't pan, although every once in a while it would jump to some other view point.

Got FRAPs to run finally and the framerate was fine during all videos and during load screens and the initial pick your character thing. But the faces didn't actually render, just the outline. The 'Mech rendered just fine in the initial "select your emblem and color scheme" thing though. Once the map loaded the framerate dropped to 0 and stayed there, GPU usage did as well. So its not like it was struggling to run, it just wasn't trying to run at all.

That's unfortunate. I know there's a few workarounds and such people have come up with, but the patch that came out the other day apparently fixed a bunch of stuff for some and broke a few things for others. The only thing I can suggest is both posting and poking around here --> https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/battletech-bug-reports.998/ to see if someone else has ahad a similar issue, or at least make the devs aware.

[Kaptin Keen]

I think there has to be something I'm doing wrong. Or I'm just really bad at the game.

So I have a mission to protect some buildings. Unsurprisingly a bunch of enemies rush past me to pummel the buildings. Now, that's fine, I didn't expect any different. But I have four mechs against ... well I haven't seen the end of it, but they have at least 10 mechs and four crawlers.

And I quite simply do not have anything even remotely like the firepower to pick them off. If I killed an enemy each round that wouldn't nearly be enough - and I don't.

I believe that, possibly, I could pick them off if I had built all my mechs as close range alpha strikers. Only I haven't. And refitting them takes forever, so that's not an option. So the mission is just impossible. Bah =(

[The Glyphstone]

Sounds like you might have selected a contract of too-high difficulty? How many skulls was it rated as, relative to your drop tonnage?

[Kaptin Keen]

Sounds like you might have selected a contract of too-high difficulty? How many skulls was it rated as, relative to your drop tonnage?

Rating 2, and I drop 4 mechs in the 45-55 ton range. It's the lowest available to me =(

Different question: I pay through the nose in wages for my mech warriors - in the hopes that the morale bonus is worth it. I have no idea if it is though =)

[Hunter Noventa]

Rating 2, and I drop 4 mechs in the 45-55 ton range. It's the lowest available to me =(

Different question: I pay through the nose in wages for my mech warriors - in the hopes that the morale bonus is worth it. I have no idea if it is though =)

I don't know what low morale does, high morale lets you get off precision strikes earlier. Though after you've raised the morale, you can bring the pay back down to neutral and not lose your gains, except to random events.

[Kaptin Keen]

I don't know what low morale does, high morale lets you get off precision strikes earlier. Though after you've raised the morale, you can bring the pay back down to neutral and not lose your gains, except to random events.

Well, yea - I know that's what it does. What I don't know is ... how much of a difference it does. Precision strikes are the only way I win battles, and having more of them feels like it should be really nice. I'm just not sure how many of them I'm buying? Is it like, two more each battle? Cause that'd certainly be worth a few 100k c-creds.

[LuckGuy]

I'm really liking this game. My only wish is that enemies would sometimes eject or retreat or surrender, it gets a little silly sometimes.

I once fought a lance vs lance battle that ended with my 4 shot up mechs vs one last Jenner. I shot off everything that could be shot on that mech without it being a kill, and he finally died from a punch after headbutting my Vindicator in the face. I want to hire that pilot.

[Triaxx]

Enemy Pilots are clearly in the Never Give Up, Never Surrender camp. It's okay, I'm the same way.

[Mechalich]

Different question: I pay through the nose in wages for my mech warriors - in the hopes that the morale bonus is worth it. I have no idea if it is though =)

Increasing the salary rating adjusts morale by +1 or +2 points out of the base score of fifty and is generally not worth it. Base morale rises naturally on its own through travel events and via dropship upgrades. Morale rises in combat via round turnover: slow, not usually significant, and kills: substantial, two kills generally nets another precise strike.

[quote]Rating 2, and I drop 4 mechs in the 45-55 ton range. It's the lowest available to me =([quote]

If you're having difficulty finding suitably easy missions, you should voyage to low rated planets via the star map. Do not feel obligated to take only the immediately available contracts. Note that mission difficult varies widely despite skull rating, depending on a variety of factors including map layout, reinforcements, and what specific opposition shows up - since even among mechs of the same tonnage there is immense variability and there's the possibility of vehicles instead of mechs. Vehicles are usually weaker, but LRM and SRM carriers combined with sensor lock in the enemy squad can wreck you.

[LuckGuy]

SRMs: they seem to get the shaft from the hardpoint system. In tabletop, they are already balanced against LRMs with range for damage. With hardpoints though, we are limited to a certain number of missile systems. When the hardpoints are the limit, it seems LRM15s and 20s will always be better than SRM6s, because more missiles means more stagger and more crit fishing chances. Is there something I'm not seeing that balances the scales for SRMs? Or is that not supposed to be balanced because the SRMs leave tonnage for other systems?

[Triaxx]

SRM's are still in the TT slot, balancing damage for heat. Early on an SRM 6 rack is quite the punch on anything that can mount it. An almost gauranteed 48 damage is one heck of a blow.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

SRMs: they seem to get the shaft from the hardpoint system. In tabletop, they are already balanced against LRMs with range for damage. With hardpoints though, we are limited to a certain number of missile systems. When the hardpoints are the limit, it seems LRM15s and 20s will always be better than SRM6s, because more missiles means more stagger and more crit fishing chances. Is there something I'm not seeing that balances the scales for SRMs? Or is that not supposed to be balanced because the SRMs leave tonnage for other systems?

LRM's and SRM's are two totally different weapon systems for two totally different tactical scenarios, despite being virtually identical in mechanics.

LRM's have a severe close-range penalty, and even a high Tactics skill isn't going to eliminate that. LRM's are also heavier, and more ammo-hungry per ton of weight.

LRM's are for ending a wounded enemy at long range, or by pounding an enemy in the first salvo and scouring their armor (and stability) so that follow-up weapons will breech armor (and possibly knock down). An LRM/20 only has, what, six shots per ton of ammo? Which means in addition to weighing as much as some AC's, and generating a surprising amount of heat, you've got to devote *more* tonnage to ammo just to keep yourself from shooting yourself dry. Minimum two tons per LRM/20 is needed for even standard engagements, much less some of the drawn out scenarios you run into in the campaign. Maybe you can get away with a single ton per LRM/20 if you are just skirmishing against your buddies, but you'll run dry in no time if you do that in the Campaign.

SRM's are an up-close and personal weapon, having the same range as a Medium Laser or an AC/20. It is designed to complement a weapon system with single-hit punch, like an AC/20 or 10 or a PPC, and either knock over an already destabilized enemy for follow-up called shots or crit-fish after a couple of armor slots have been penetrated. Ton for ton, and heat for damage, an SRM/6 is one of the nastiest weapon systems in the game. It weighs 3 tons, takes up 2 crits, and one ton of ammo will net you fifteen shots before you run dry. As far as up close and personal weapons go, you'd have to go a long way to find something equally nasty. Granted, the AC/20 does more damage to a single location, but an SRM/6 isn't supposed to do damage to a single location, it's designed to do stability damage and crit-fish vulnerable spots in an enemy mech's armor. It only takes one missile to cause an ammo explosion, after all...

Two different weapons for two different situations. LRM's are to hammer your opponent from out of their optimal range, SRM's are to close and finish someone off.

[Drasius]

Well, yea - I know that's what it does. What I don't know is ... how much of a difference it does. Precision strikes are the only way I win battles, and having more of them feels like it should be really nice. I'm just not sure how many of them I'm buying? Is it like, two more each battle? Cause that'd certainly be worth a few 100k c-creds.

If you're using/abusing the high spirits bug, it's nigh infinite. If not, it's minimum 1, more likely 2 more uses per battle. The big perk is having 2 called shots available right off the bat as this can be a huge turning point and a great equaliser when facing multiple opponents who need to either go away, or be pushed back in the initiative order.


SRMs: they seem to get the shaft from the hardpoint system. In tabletop, they are already balanced against LRMs with range for damage. With hardpoints though, we are limited to a certain number of missile systems. When the hardpoints are the limit, it seems LRM15s and 20s will always be better than SRM6s, because more missiles means more stagger and more crit fishing chances. Is there something I'm not seeing that balances the scales for SRMs? Or is that not supposed to be balanced because the SRMs leave tonnage for other systems?

LRM's have less damage per ton, can't be fitted in great number on many of the smaller 'mechs and only if the first missile of an LRM salvo hits the head can any further missiles from that salvo also strike the head. SRM's have a chance to strike the head with every missile and don't cluster the way LRM's do. They also make ideal secondary weapons or bracket fire options, even on larger 'mechs. If you're boating missiles like a min-maxer, then no, +stab LRM's are the master-race with no challengers, but for a balanced build, SRM's definately have their place.

[Kaptin Keen]

If you're using/abusing the high spirits bug, it's nigh infinite. If not, it's minimum 1, more likely 2 more uses per battle. The big perk is having 2 called shots available right off the bat as this can be a huge turning point and a great equaliser when facing multiple opponents who need to either go away, or be pushed back in the initiative order.

I'm not aware of any high spirits bug - but I may well be unwittingly abusing it, I seem to get it constantly.

But yes - Precision Fire twice right off the bat is a game changer, and if that is my reward for overpaying my dudes, it's well worth it =)

[Drasius]

I'm not aware of any high spirits bug - but I may well be unwittingly abusing it, I seem to get it constantly.

But yes - Precision Fire twice right off the bat is a game changer, and if that is my reward for overpaying my dudes, it's well worth it =)

High/Low Spirits don't expire when they're meant to, they persist indefinately. Given that killing a 'mech usually gets you 10+ morale, and High Spirits lets you use Prescision Strike for 10 Morale, well, it can get a little silly to the point where you can easily chain called shots on every turn, making an already relatively easy game absolute cake.

[Kaptin Keen]

High/Low Spirits don't expire when they're meant to, they persist indefinately. Given that killing a 'mech usually gets you 10+ morale, and High Spirits lets you use Prescision Strike for 10 Morale, well, it can get a little silly to the point where you can easily chain called shots on every turn, making an already relatively easy game absolute cake.

Ok, I haven't been at a point where I used Precision Strike every turn - but maybe that's simply because I'm bad at the game.


If you're having difficulty finding suitably easy missions, you should voyage to low rated planets via the star map. Do not feel obligated to take only the immediately available contracts. Note that mission difficult varies widely despite skull rating, depending on a variety of factors including map layout, reinforcements, and what specific opposition shows up - since even among mechs of the same tonnage there is immense variability and there's the possibility of vehicles instead of mechs. Vehicles are usually weaker, but LRM and SRM carriers combined with sensor lock in the enemy squad can wreck you.

Meh. I appreciate the advice - I haven't even looked at the star map yet - but ... see, after finally completing the mission I mentioned (losing all the secondary objectives, but managing to hold on to the main one), the next mission was rated 3, and I hammered that one with barely a scratch to my mechs. I think it's just rather random really =)

[Misereor]

Has anyone else noticed that the called shot hit percentages can be, well, wrong? I've repeatedly taken called shots with my Trebuchet (usually via the precise shot ability, if that matters) that have an 88% to 96% chance to hit a specific segment, only to find that while all 30 missiles hit, only a few actually hit the segment I shot at. Do the called shot percentages only apply to the first missile or something?

Missiles work differently than other weapons when determining hit locations.
A non-missile weapon will use the normal hit table to determine what it hits, and if you fire 4 lasers, each of them will get a roll on the normal table.
However, when you fire missiles, only the first missile fired by that launcher will roll on the regular hit location table. All the remaining missiles that hit will use a special hit location table specifically for missiles. This is to make the spread more realistic.

[huttj509]

Missiles work differently than other weapons when determining hit locations.
A non-missile weapon will use the normal hit table to determine what it hits, and if you fire 4 lasers, each of them will get a roll on the normal table.
However, when you fire missiles, only the first missile fired by that launcher will roll on the regular hit location table. All the remaining missiles that hit will use a special hit location table specifically for missiles. This is to make the spread more realistic.

Is this all missiles, or only long-range missiles?

Does an SR6 hit like 6 M lasers would, or like 6 LRM hits from the same weapon would?

How about a Minigun?

[Misereor]

Is this all missiles, or only long-range missiles?

Does an SR6 hit like 6 M lasers would, or like 6 LRM hits from the same weapon would?

How about a Minigun?


Ahh, sorry. I meant Long Range Missiles.
Short Range Missiles work normally, as do Machine Guns.

[Hunter Noventa]

Is this all missiles, or only long-range missiles?

Does an SR6 hit like 6 M lasers would, or like 6 LRM hits from the same weapon would?

How about a Minigun?

I think it's like that for all missiles, and the machine guns probably work in a similar manner.

Last night's session got off to a rough start. I was a little low on funds so I headed for the next Priority Mission, since those always have a juicy payout. The first half, disabling vehicles so we could take over the turrets, went fine, vehicles are chumps. the next part got a little dicey, I got bogged down coming down a hill with a time counting down to take out the Dropship Control building. If I didn't have those turrets it would have gotten real ugly. I lost one of my lesser pilots and ended up scrapping two mechs (a Trebuchet and something else I can't even remember.) But I manage to capture the Dragon that had showed up in the mission, while racing my Shadowhawk past the enemy to jump up and take out the target building.

So needing to recover funds and injuries, i headed back to the easier planets to follow up. Took an assassination mission that went amazing. I incapacitated every pilot somehow, including taking out the actual target with a DFA attack. I didn't get their entire Grasshopper, but I did get enough parts to finish a Kintaro, so I'm in a much better position to fight now.

[Drasius]

I think it's like that for all missiles, and the machine guns probably work in a similar manner.

Nope, only LRM's have the clustering and anti-head-hit mechanics, SRM's and Machine Guns both work just like every other weapon in that they can hit any facing.

Machine guns are a bit noteworthy for 2 reasons though:
1) they can hit the head in the melee phase, this giving you a 3rd possible pilot injury in a single activation (torso destruction/ammo explosion/head hit, then knockdown, then the support weapon follow up). This is not unique to machine guns as both flamers and small lasers can do it too, but the odds are much higher since the machine gun fires 5 shots instead of 1.
2) they have the highest crit rate of any weapon at 50% per hit

[LuckGuy]

That was a fun mission. I finished it by destroying the command center on the last turn with a hail Mary shot from a Shadow Hawk. My JaegerMech bravely strode into battle to lay waste with its AC20++, only to be headshot, killing my best pilot. Bit of an oh-crap moment.

If the part about SRMs not having the same head hit restrictions as LRMs is correct, then I'd say that evens it out. Otherwise, without acknowledgement of the min-maxer comment, I'm a big fan of taking as many LRMs as will fit and knocking mechs down as much as possible. Now if only they had inferno SRMs... If they do, don't tell me! Haven't done the decrypt mission yet.

Anyone else remember the mission in Crescent Hawk's Revenge that you have to fight in UrbanMechs?

[Drasius]

Now if only they had inferno SRMs... If they do, don't tell me!

No infernos without mods.

[Kaptin Keen]

I now have my first heavy - a dragon - plus a hunchback and a griffin. The hunchback pretty seems obvious in what it's good at, I'm less sure about the other two? I'm kind of assuming everyone arrives at this point, so what are the best uses for these fine new beasts?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I now have my first heavy - a dragon - plus a hunchback and a griffin. The hunchback pretty seems obvious in what it's good at, I'm less sure about the other two? I'm kind of assuming everyone arrives at this point, so what are the best uses for these fine new beasts?

The dragon is one of the fastest heavy mechs in the game, and just as fast (if not faster) than many Medium mechs, and is a star 'brawler' chassis, someone designed to close the gap and pound the other guy into scrap. My loadout generally includes a PPC, and 2x SRM/6's. In many ways, it is the direct upgrade from a Hunchback, who tries to do the same thing, less successfully, due to less tonnage. If nothing else, the Dragon mounts more armor than a Hunchie does, so he can close under heavier fire without sustaining much in the way of actual damage. If you want a mech that is more ammo-dependent but colder, strip out the PPC for an AC/10. You can afford to strip a few heat sinks to make up the difference, since the heat the AC/10 does is far less. While it's not an AC/20, a second ton of ammo on the AC/10 really can help on extended scenarios.

The Dragon can be your point-man from the mission you are given one (and can thereafter acquire more if you feel like spending the cash) and can continue in that role for quite some time, and even after you find something heavier to act as your lynchpin, he can still come out on missions where mobility is key (such as base defense or escort missions).

The classic Hunchback's AC/20 puts the fear of close range into anything that isn't an Assault mech, and even then, Assaults still have to respect the punch it can deliver. However, it sacrifices mobility and armor to get that punch, making it something of a 'hammer in an eggshell'. It doesn't have much ammo for the massive weapon either, and once it shoots itself dry, it's effectively neutered (other than melee attacks). If you see one coming at you, make it your primary target (unless there's something like a Firestarter charging you on a desert or moon map). The laser variant is only viable on Tundra missions, it has way too much heat accumulation in any other scenario, and its damage is far more spread out. I'd have rather stripped out three or four of those ML's for an SRM/6.

Modifying the Hunchie is a delicate balance between weapons and armor. Personally, I like to swap out his AC/20 with an AC/10 and either shore up his armor or give him another weapon system like an SRM/6 to back up his big punch with something that can crit-fish.

The Griffin is a flanker/sniper or missile boat mech. While the standard loadout includes an LRM/PPC combo, you can strip out the PPC and make him your first truly effective missile boat. I think I got a pair of LRM/15's on mine without sacrificing too much. In this configuration, he can replace your Trebuchet entirely, being strictly superior in every mechanical way. His mobility lets him stay out of reach of the nasty stuff, and he can rain down the pain... at least until he runs out of ammo, that is. But hey, still beats out a trenchbucket any day.

Another is to make your Griffin a 'Panther-Plus'. Strip out his LRM/10 and you've got quite a bit to play with. Give him some armor,, a couple of heat sinks, and an SRM/6 to mind himself in closer quarters if someone DOES close with him, and you've got an excellent skirmisher who is mobile enough to flank around for rear-shots with a PPC (which is NOT something even a heavy or even an assault mech wants), and in general keep people's heads down while your brawlers close in. If someone does try to close with him, the SRM/6 is a very effective close-fire support weapon system with significant stability and high chance of finding chinks in armor that has already taken a beating. Give him to someone with Master Tactician, and he's moving in Phase 2 with the rest of the Light Mechs, giving you the option to hit and run even other mediums, much less heavies or assaults.

Either way, the Griffin is a highly mobile and relatively robust mech for missions which require more mobility than raw firepower.

[Kaptin Keen]

.. excellent input ..

Thanks - that is indeed excellent input. I've been looking for a better brawler for a while, what I currently use is my old Blackjack refit with a lot of point blank firepower, but it's simply not durable enough for the job. The Griffin looks underwhelming in it's standard configuration, but I'll try dropping a bunch of LRM's on it. Goody-goody =)

[LibraryOgre]

Reading this, I am getting madder and madder I can't play it.

[MCerberus]

One of the things I'd like to know before trying out this game, is are the out-there fun builds viable if not advisable? From the Mech-warrior days most of my fun comes from some of the silly stuff.

You know, loading up a catapult with rockets and seeing if your alpha-strike hurt enough for your heat to dissipate while a very, VERY angry mech chases you with hobbled legs and the rest of your lance laughing their rears off.

Or kill-it-with-fire builds (I was never brave enough to bring a zippo into an assault match though)

Or everyone's best friend, the Shredder Atlas

[Drasius]

I now have my first heavy - a dragon - plus a hunchback and a griffin. The hunchback pretty seems obvious in what it's good at, I'm less sure about the other two? I'm kind of assuming everyone arrives at this point, so what are the best uses for these fine new beasts?

The Dragon goes into storage or gets sold for C-Bills while you run something good instead. PPC and double SRM6 isn't terrible, but the Dragon just isn't as good as the 55 ton mediums unfortunately, that initiative bump really hurts it. If it's all you've got though, it could be worse. If you haven't been using JJ's on the mediums, it's not as bad though, so there's some consolation there I guess, but if you're making heavy use of JJ's, you'd do better by leaving the Dragon at home. If you've found a +damage AC/10, then it makes a decent enough home for your little headcapper, but I'd still be wary of shoving it in an arm mount, even if the -1 to-hit accuracy bonus is nice.

The -4G Hunchback is for missions where salvage isn't a concern, pop a called shot to the CT and it's generally smooth sailing from there. Alternatively, it makes legging a 'mech very, very easy or just as a general purpose problem solver to punch big holes in things. Works best with breaching shot since 1x 100 damage is better than 1x 50 damage and 2x 12 damage from the ML's. The -4P "Swayback" is no less dangerous on a called shot if you've got decent tactics, but I'm not such a big fan, though it is hard to argue with the damage output. There is something incredibly satisfying about that autocannon though, especially against mediums or lower and it has less heat issues than the laser spam version to boot. It can work with faster machines, but do note that it can feel a bit lacklustre if you're used to fielding 5/8 machines like the Wolverine and Shadow Hawk, but if you've been running around with the Centurion and Vindicator, it'll fit right in.

The -1N Griffin is mostly fine as it is, though trading out the LRM 10 for a pair of 5's saves you a ton for no real loss. I used it as my scout for a very long time and had great success with it, though it does run hot if you want to use the jets much, but sensor lock alleviates much of the heat burden. You can make it into a decent close range brawler with the addition of dual SRM racks instead of the LRM's too, LL and dual SRM 6's or even ML, dual SRM 6's and some sinks to let you use 'em more often. Still not as good as a Shadow Hawk, but the ability to use the entire left side as armour with no worries about losing combat effectiveness does have its merits.

A note on ammo - Until you get a fair way into the story, you really don't need more than 10-12 shots for your guns, so going 2 tons on the AC/20's and LRM 20's is basically mandatory, but 3 tons is probably overkill. Your call for 1 or 2 tons on the LRM 15 or AC/10, but I like to be on the safe side and budget for 2 tonnes since while 8 shots is usually enough early-mid game, they're enough of a tonnage investment that running out would be annoying. Also something to consider if you're running multiple racks, you don't need to run 1 ton of ammo per launcher, so you can probably get away with 1 ton of SRM ammo even with dual SRM 6 racks (though you might empty your bins on the last round or 2 if you're fighting 2 lances). I know I've usually got reloads left when I run SRM6+4 on a single ton of ammo.

As with most things, you can hammer a square peg into a round hole if you try hard enough, but a lot comes down to playstyle and lance composition. The more mobile you are, the less you'll probably get out of the Hunchie, the more you tend to brawl, the less value you'll see in the Griffin. If you want to run LRM boats, both the Griffin and the Dragon can do a reasonable job (though the Cent will always be a better choice in that weight range). The -4G Hunchie is a bit pidgeon-holed due to hardpoints, but you could run something like AC/5 and PPC if you wanted to, but overall, it's scary enough and the engagement ranges are short enough that there's little point in deviating from it's brawler role.

[The Glyphstone]

So I found my first glitch today. Ran a 2-skull Convoy Ambush, cleared it without significant damage - my Centurion in the shop for a week and one pilot on medical leave, vs. a Galleon/Manticore/Striker/Manticore convoy + a Spider/Spider/Locust/Panther escort and a midbattle reinforcement of a Grasshopper/SRM carrier on my flank. But when all the dust was settled, the 'Destroy Pirate Reinforcements' objective remained incomplete, and stayed that way despite me scouring the map for any hint of an un-killed enemy. My only guess was that it glitched out because I disabled the Grasshopper through a pair of lucky head-hits+knockdown, rather than mission-killing the chassis?

[Drasius]

One of the things I'd like to know before trying out this game, is are the out-there fun builds viable if not advisable? From the Mech-warrior days most of my fun comes from some of the silly stuff.

You know, loading up a catapult with rockets and seeing if your alpha-strike hurt enough for your heat to dissipate while a very, VERY angry mech chases you with hobbled legs and the rest of your lance laughing their rears off.

Or kill-it-with-fire builds (I was never brave enough to bring a zippo into an assault match though)

Or everyone's best friend, the Shredder Atlas

Depends on your definition of "out-there", "fun" and "viable". The system they use is ... somewhat similar to the MW4 or MWO system where you can only mount a certain type of weapon in a location, though some variant chassis have different hardpoints since it's based on what the stock loadout is to a large degree.

Boating LRM's is the current go-to move for making every mission EZ-mode, so throwing the 2 biggest LRM racks you can find on a Catapult is very viable. Flamers are pretty brutal and can be fitted onto most 'mechs in varying amounts. The Firestarter is usually the primary target for most players just because of how much of a PITA multiple flamers are.

As for being "viable", well, anything is viable if you're good enough, people are doing the campaign with mediums and even lights against many, many times their own weight in OpFor, but we've also got a large number of people complaining that it's too difficult even with heavy 'mechs early in the campaign, so YMMV.

[MCerberus]

Depends on your definition of "out-there", "fun" and "viable". The system they use is ... somewhat similar to the MW4 or MWO system where you can only mount a certain type of weapon in a location, though some variant chassis have different hardpoints since it's based on what the stock loadout is to a large degree.

Boating LRM's is the current go-to move for making every mission EZ-mode, so throwing the 2 biggest LRM racks you can find on a Catapult is very viable. Flamers are pretty brutal and can be fitted onto most 'mechs in varying amounts. The Firestarter is usually the primary target for most players just because of how much of a PITA multiple flamers are.

As for being "viable", well, anything is viable if you're good enough, people are doing the campaign with mediums and even lights against many, many times their own weight in OpFor, but we've also got a large number of people complaining that it's too difficult even with heavy 'mechs early in the campaign, so YMMV.

Well, what I mean is, you ever put rockets on a catapult? Had to strip out the laser for more dual-sinks. Keep the jets though, nobody expects a catapult to be going towards you.

The reason I'm asking is that the realities of piloted vs strategy may make the insane road less rewarding. If firing ends your turn, the insane alpha-strike stuff becomes stupid compared to the usual support builds or ol' reliable Madcat's twin PPCs, LRMs, and armor strapped everywhere. Cheesey small mech builds also really worked off of the ridiculousness of seeing an assault try and target the light/medium running circles around their feet. I can also see the shredder Atlas (count the kinetic hardpoint slots. now put an autogun in every slot) without the constant pressure and relentless fire.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, what I mean is, you ever put rockets on a catapult? Had to strip out the laser for more dual-sinks. Keep the jets though, nobody expects a catapult to be going towards you.

The reason I'm asking is that the realities of piloted vs strategy may make the insane road less rewarding. If firing ends your turn, the insane alpha-strike stuff becomes stupid compared to the usual support builds or ol' reliable Madcat's twin PPCs, LRMs, and armor strapped everywhere. Cheesey small mech builds also really worked off of the ridiculousness of seeing an assault try and target the light/medium running circles around their feet. I can also see the shredder Atlas (count the kinetic hardpoint slots. now put an autogun in every slot) without the constant pressure and relentless fire.This game is based in 3025 tech. There are no Rockets, Double Heat Sinks, Madcats, or any other post Clan Invasion tech. With a singular exception which is plot-relevant. So no, none of this is possible currently.

[Gnoman]

This game is based in 3025 tech. There are no Rockets, Double Heat Sinks, Madcats, or any other post Clan Invasion tech. With a singular exception which is plot-relevant. So no, none of this is possible currently.


I haven't seen them in-game yet (I'm still not that far in), so I don't know if they appear, but Double Heat Sinks are Star League LosTech and exist in the game files.

[Drasius]

Well, what I mean is, you ever put rockets on a catapult? Had to strip out the laser for more dual-sinks. Keep the jets though, nobody expects a catapult to be going towards you.

The reason I'm asking is that the realities of piloted vs strategy may make the insane road less rewarding. If firing ends your turn, the insane alpha-strike stuff becomes stupid compared to the usual support builds or ol' reliable Madcat's twin PPCs, LRMs, and armor strapped everywhere. Cheesey small mech builds also really worked off of the ridiculousness of seeing an assault try and target the light/medium running circles around their feet. I can also see the shredder Atlas (count the kinetic hardpoint slots. now put an autogun in every slot) without the constant pressure and relentless fire.

Rocket launchers, for all their simplicity, aren't 3025 tech.

You can get a pilot ability fore fire and then move.

The use of smaller 'mechs is totally viable by playing reserve shenanigans to move and fire twice in a row.

The Atlas isn't really rocking that many ballistic points to do what I suspect you want to do.

This isn't MWO, this is a turn based strategy. If you're meaning the pvp aspect, well, I very much doubt you're going to surprise anyone by boating missiles, but there will be more than a few people to catch off guard if you rush and flank them with smaller 'mechs.

[MCerberus]

It may be a little petty, but it looks like the clan scum built all my favorite toys. I know it would be unfair but I know I'd be missing the stuff from Warrior 3/4. (If I remember correctly the yellow hardpoint Atlas was a variant anyway).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I haven't seen them in-game yet (I'm still not that far in), so I don't know if they appear, but Double Heat Sinks are Star League LosTech and exist in the game files.That would be the aforementioned 'singular exception', and it is plot-relevant. You'll know it when you find it. Just know that the night is always darkest just before dawn, and that your greatest victory often comes after your most egregious defeat.

[Olinser]

The dragon is one of the fastest heavy mechs in the game, and just as fast (if not faster) than many Medium mechs, and is a star 'brawler' chassis, someone designed to close the gap and pound the other guy into scrap. My loadout generally includes a PPC, and 2x SRM/6's. In many ways, it is the direct upgrade from a Hunchback, who tries to do the same thing, less successfully, due to less tonnage. If nothing else, the Dragon mounts more armor than a Hunchie does, so he can close under heavier fire without sustaining much in the way of actual damage. If you want a mech that is more ammo-dependent but colder, strip out the PPC for an AC/10. You can afford to strip a few heat sinks to make up the difference, since the heat the AC/10 does is far less. While it's not an AC/20, a second ton of ammo on the AC/10 really can help on extended scenarios.

The Dragon can be your point-man from the mission you are given one (and can thereafter acquire more if you feel like spending the cash) and can continue in that role for quite some time, and even after you find something heavier to act as your lynchpin, he can still come out on missions where mobility is key (such as base defense or escort missions).

The classic Hunchback's AC/20 puts the fear of close range into anything that isn't an Assault mech, and even then, Assaults still have to respect the punch it can deliver. However, it sacrifices mobility and armor to get that punch, making it something of a 'hammer in an eggshell'. It doesn't have much ammo for the massive weapon either, and once it shoots itself dry, it's effectively neutered (other than melee attacks). If you see one coming at you, make it your primary target (unless there's something like a Firestarter charging you on a desert or moon map). The laser variant is only viable on Tundra missions, it has way too much heat accumulation in any other scenario, and its damage is far more spread out. I'd have rather stripped out three or four of those ML's for an SRM/6.

Modifying the Hunchie is a delicate balance between weapons and armor. Personally, I like to swap out his AC/20 with an AC/10 and either shore up his armor or give him another weapon system like an SRM/6 to back up his big punch with something that can crit-fish.

The Griffin is a flanker/sniper or missile boat mech. While the standard loadout includes an LRM/PPC combo, you can strip out the PPC and make him your first truly effective missile boat. I think I got a pair of LRM/15's on mine without sacrificing too much. In this configuration, he can replace your Trebuchet entirely, being strictly superior in every mechanical way. His mobility lets him stay out of reach of the nasty stuff, and he can rain down the pain... at least until he runs out of ammo, that is. But hey, still beats out a trenchbucket any day.

Another is to make your Griffin a 'Panther-Plus'. Strip out his LRM/10 and you've got quite a bit to play with. Give him some armor,, a couple of heat sinks, and an SRM/6 to mind himself in closer quarters if someone DOES close with him, and you've got an excellent skirmisher who is mobile enough to flank around for rear-shots with a PPC (which is NOT something even a heavy or even an assault mech wants), and in general keep people's heads down while your brawlers close in. If someone does try to close with him, the SRM/6 is a very effective close-fire support weapon system with significant stability and high chance of finding chinks in armor that has already taken a beating. Give him to someone with Master Tactician, and he's moving in Phase 2 with the rest of the Light Mechs, giving you the option to hit and run even other mediums, much less heavies or assaults.

Either way, the Griffin is a highly mobile and relatively robust mech for missions which require more mobility than raw firepower.

I actually prefer the Shadow Hawk for a Medium missile boat - you can put a LRM15 + LRM20 pretty easily, it has very high base movement so you can stay at range very easily, and since its LRMs are in the same torso you really only need armor on 1 side so you can reduce armor on the non-weapon side to take enough ammo to never run dry very easily.

I personally use the Griffin as my close combat closer - its got a very high potential armor for a medium mech, and when you can get him you should be starting to regularly encounter SRM +2 and +4 damages, which seem to have much higher drop rates than any other weapon +dmg mods. Right now I have him with high armor, 3x SRM6 +4 (12 damage a pop) and 3x Mlasers gives a potential max alpha strike damage of 291 damage in 1 round from a Medium chassis. Rush forward and Precision Strike center torso is enough to 1 cycle most Heavy and even a decent number of lighter Assault mechs. Even with just regular SRMs you're at 219 a round which will get a good amount of Heavies in 1 round.

[Olinser]

It may be a little petty, but it looks like the clan scum built all my favorite toys. I know it would be unfair but I know I'd be missing the stuff from Warrior 3/4. (If I remember correctly the yellow hardpoint Atlas was a variant anyway).

This isn't just pre-Clan. This is pre-Helm Memory Core.

Gauss rifles, pulse lasers, double heat sinks, Jump Ships, even a good number of Mech fusion reactors and actual Mech chassis are considered LosTech and unable to be replaced.

[Gnoman]

That would be the aforementioned 'singular exception', and it is plot-relevant. You'll know it when you find it. Just know that the night is always darkest just before dawn, and that your greatest victory often comes after your most egregious defeat.

Still relevant that you lumped DHS into "Post Clan Invasion" tech. It is very much not so, either in- or out-of- universe. DHS were introduced into the game via TRO 2750 in 1989, and were invented in-universe in the 2500s.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Still relevant that you lumped DHS into "Post Clan Invasion" tech. It is very much not so, either in- or out-of- universe. DHS were introduced into the game via TRO 2750 in 1989, and were invented in-universe in the 2500s.

And were lost during the Civil War after the good Admiral took the lion's share of the military to 'parts unknown', to return AS the clans, and are not general issue in 3025, which was the point. And they were not re-discovered again until the Helm Memory Core, which was around the time of Clan Invasion.

Point is, at this stage in the timeline, it is not standard issue that you can simply assume is available to be subbed in.

[Olinser]

And were lost during the Civil War after the good Admiral took the lion's share of the military to 'parts unknown', to return AS the clans, and are not general issue in 3025, which was the point. And they were not re-discovered again until the Helm Memory Core, which was around the time of Clan Invasion.

Point is, at this stage in the timeline, it is not standard issue that you can simply assume is available to be subbed in.

Actually there was a pretty long break between the discovery of the Helm Memory Core (3028) and the Clan Invasion (3050), long enough for a lot of the tech to be rebuilt and become reasonably common.

[Drasius]

Actually there was a pretty long break between the discovery of the Helm Memory Core (3028) and the Clan Invasion (3050), long enough for a lot of the tech to be rebuilt and become reasonably common.

True, but DHS were experimental at best still in the IS until the war of 3039, with the Davions having early prototypes from as early as 3020, but it was the cappies that fielded the first (non-comguard) 'mech off the production line with 'em in 3030, and even then, it was in very small numbers. No, 3039 was the true turning point where the forgotten toys of Lostech started to appear in any sort of reasonable numbers, but even then, it was still pretty damn rare, and this continued even through to the early days of the clan invasion. Saying that the various bits of lostech were functionally unavailable to all but the smallest handful of units until the clan invasion isn't really inaccurate.

[Triaxx]

Like the Mechs themselves, they're likely to be rare, valuable family artifacts.

[Misereor]

True, but DHS were experimental at best still in the IS until the war of 3039, with the Davions having early prototypes from as early as 3020, but it was the cappies that fielded the first (non-comguard) 'mech off the production line with 'em in 3030, and even then, it was in very small numbers. No, 3039 was the true turning point where the forgotten toys of Lostech started to appear in any sort of reasonable numbers, but even then, it was still pretty damn rare, and this continued even through to the early days of the clan invasion. Saying that the various bits of lostech were functionally unavailable to all but the smallest handful of units until the clan invasion isn't really inaccurate.

Been a while since I read the novels, but as I recall, getting the IS militaries upgraded to HC tech was part of the deal struck on Outreach in 3051 between Hanse Davion and Theodore Kurita on one side and Thomas Marik on the other side for Joshua Marik's life. Marik would be the first to retool his industrial base for HC tech production and deliver the output to the FC and DC militaries in return for cash, star systems, and leuchemia treatments for Joshua.

[Alent]

So, I'm having an interesting problem in game and I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to fix it.

My lance at the moment consists of:


Highlander (stock)
Battlemaster (Retooled around an AC/20+++ with all those +'s as stability damage)
Jagermech (AC/2++, LRM 15++, LRM10+, LRM10+, bonus stability damage on all of them)
A slot I keep trying all sorts of Heavies in to no real avail. They always seem to get their shoulders shot out on 4+ star missions.


Anybody know of any missions where I'm liable to find salvage for a Grasshopper or something else decently heavy enough to field in that last slot and not get it's teeth kicked in?

I've got an Orion, several Thunderbolts, and a few other things I keep trying, but what inevitably ends up happening is if I end up facing more than a lance at any given moment, that last slot gets singled out and picked on until it loses a torso. I still finish the mission with more or less everything else intact. When everything was lighter it wasn't as much of an annoyance. I've lost half a dozen LRM++'s to it so far, split across everything from the Quickdraw I washed Grim Sybil out of to the Orion I kitbashed together a few missions ago. I'm beginning to think the game just doesn't like Medusa or Glitch.

I've been taking nearly every rando merc mission where the description is of a single enemy lance and the skulls are 4+, in the hopes of running into assault mechs... and I keep running into 65 ton mechs supported by Schrek PPC carriers and those SRM6x10 vehicles. Any planets more of a hotspot for assaults than others? I want to take all these stability damage guns and start knocking over assaults to salvage.

Storywise, I'm at the last battle. The ship's nearly finished aside from trying to scrimp together the money to build a new hospital to go along with the new medbay... And despite the AI's best efforts to kill Medusa and Glitch, I'm still coming out of most missions with a net profit and provided no torsos are lost, usually less than 3 days of mech bay repair time. I'm just tired of having to replace my better-than-average parts because two lances decided to focus fire the same mech. If I can score something heavy enough to make that last slot's endurance work out, I think I'm probably ready for the finale.

[Triaxx]

My suggestion would be go run a few missions on the low rank planets, and then come back to the higher rated ones. Depending on the random generation method used, it might force it to reset the chances for the heavies.

[Olinser]

So, I'm having an interesting problem in game and I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to fix it.

My lance at the moment consists of:


Highlander (stock)
Battlemaster (Retooled around an AC/20+++ with all those +'s as stability damage)
Jagermech (AC/2++, LRM 15++, LRM10+, LRM10+, bonus stability damage on all of them)
A slot I keep trying all sorts of Heavies in to no real avail. They always seem to get their shoulders shot out on 4+ star missions.


Anybody know of any missions where I'm liable to find salvage for a Grasshopper or something else decently heavy enough to field in that last slot and not get it's teeth kicked in?

I've got an Orion, several Thunderbolts, and a few other things I keep trying, but what inevitably ends up happening is if I end up facing more than a lance at any given moment, that last slot gets singled out and picked on until it loses a torso. I still finish the mission with more or less everything else intact. When everything was lighter it wasn't as much of an annoyance. I've lost half a dozen LRM++'s to it so far, split across everything from the Quickdraw I washed Grim Sybil out of to the Orion I kitbashed together a few missions ago. I'm beginning to think the game just doesn't like Medusa or Glitch.

I've been taking nearly every rando merc mission where the description is of a single enemy lance and the skulls are 4+, in the hopes of running into assault mechs... and I keep running into 65 ton mechs supported by Schrek PPC carriers and those SRM6x10 vehicles. Any planets more of a hotspot for assaults than others? I want to take all these stability damage guns and start knocking over assaults to salvage.

Storywise, I'm at the last battle. The ship's nearly finished aside from trying to scrimp together the money to build a new hospital to go along with the new medbay... And despite the AI's best efforts to kill Medusa and Glitch, I'm still coming out of most missions with a net profit and provided no torsos are lost, usually less than 3 days of mech bay repair time. I'm just tired of having to replace my better-than-average parts because two lances decided to focus fire the same mech. If I can score something heavy enough to make that last slot's endurance work out, I think I'm probably ready for the finale.

You have a setup very similar to mine, for the 4th mech I actually still use a Griffin right now with 3x SRM6++ and 3x Mlasers with high armor as a closer with high damage to 1 cycle big threats.

Your Jagermech isn't a very good configuration - you've only got 35 missiles and have it in a very inefficient configuration by using multiple LRM10s instead of 1 LRM20, and you are wasting a LOT of weight on the AC/2 and its ammo on a missile boat. Get rid of the AC/2 and consolidate the LRMs and depending on how much armor or ammo you want you should be rocking either 2x LRM20s + 1x LRM15, or 2x LRM15 + 1x LRM20. That gives you either 55 or 50 LRM missiles a turn.

As far as getting shoulders shot out - the AI doesn't make very good use of movement for focus fire. If their first turn of firing hit a mech in one side, next turn rotate it so the stronger side is facing them. With a team of 3 heavies you should be able to beat most 4 star missions without losing limbs at all. Or maybe you're just not taking enough armor for mechs you keep in the front or not keeping ammo in safe locations? Which mechs are you losing limbs on and is because they're actually getting destroyed or because ammo explosions are destroying them?

As far as finding mechs - Grasshoppers tend to pop up in 3-4 skull missions, but are a relatively rare spawn and you won't see them super frequently. All mechs are not created equal in the spawn possibilities - on the heavy mech list Orions and Thunderbolts are a dime a dozen and show up in almost every mission that has multiple heavy spawns, but things like the Black Knight are MUCH rarer. Certain enemy OpFor nationalities seem to have higher chances of some rare spawn mechs when you take missions against them, but I haven't seen a comprehensive list so I just have my general impression.

Also remember that if you see a mech you want to salvage the method you use to kill it dramatically affects how much salvage you can get. There is some randomness, but in general a CT kill gives you 1 salvage, a leg kill ( both legs shot off) gives you 2 salvage, and a pilot kill (incapacitating pilot WITHOUT destroying the mech) gives 3 salvage. Those aren't 100% guaranteed, though, as there seems to be some RNG, and other factors like exploding ammo seem to lower salvage chances. It's possible to get only 1 or zero salvage from a leg kill, for instance (I got zero salvage from a King Crab that I shot the legs off without destroying any other section, for instance).

[Drasius]

Been a while since I read the novels, but as I recall, getting the IS militaries upgraded to HC tech was part of the deal struck on Outreach in 3051 between Hanse Davion and Theodore Kurita on one side and Thomas Marik on the other side for Joshua Marik's life. Marik would be the first to retool his industrial base for HC tech production and deliver the output to the FC and DC militaries in return for cash, star systems, and leuchemia treatments for Joshua.

Correct, but each nation had their own tech programs and was generally working on the recovery of Lostech for quite a while before that, it's just that there's a huge difference between outfitting maybe a dozen or so units with 1-2 bits of special gear (3039) and retooling a couple of hundred regiments (3050+). Both sides of the 3039 war were very surprised to see lostech on the other side of the field, both sides thought they had the advantage, the Kuritan's via the deal with Comstar and the Lyrans and Davions with the NAIS and Alliance programs.


So, I'm having an interesting problem in game and I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on where to fix it.

My lance at the moment consists of:


Highlander (stock)
Battlemaster (Retooled around an AC/20+++ with all those +'s as stability damage)
Jagermech (AC/2++, LRM 15++, LRM10+, LRM10+, bonus stability damage on all of them)
A slot I keep trying all sorts of Heavies in to no real avail. They always seem to get their shoulders shot out on 4+ star missions.


Anybody know of any missions where I'm liable to find salvage for a Grasshopper or something else decently heavy enough to field in that last slot and not get it's teeth kicked in?

I've got an Orion, several Thunderbolts, and a few other things I keep trying, but what inevitably ends up happening is if I end up facing more than a lance at any given moment, that last slot gets singled out and picked on until it loses a torso. I still finish the mission with more or less everything else intact. When everything was lighter it wasn't as much of an annoyance. I've lost half a dozen LRM++'s to it so far, split across everything from the Quickdraw I washed Grim Sybil out of to the Orion I kitbashed together a few missions ago. I'm beginning to think the game just doesn't like Medusa or Glitch.

I've been taking nearly every rando merc mission where the description is of a single enemy lance and the skulls are 4+, in the hopes of running into assault mechs... and I keep running into 65 ton mechs supported by Schrek PPC carriers and those SRM6x10 vehicles. Any planets more of a hotspot for assaults than others? I want to take all these stability damage guns and start knocking over assaults to salvage.

Storywise, I'm at the last battle. The ship's nearly finished aside from trying to scrimp together the money to build a new hospital to go along with the new medbay... And despite the AI's best efforts to kill Medusa and Glitch, I'm still coming out of most missions with a net profit and provided no torsos are lost, usually less than 3 days of mech bay repair time. I'm just tired of having to replace my better-than-average parts because two lances decided to focus fire the same mech. If I can score something heavy enough to make that last slot's endurance work out, I think I'm probably ready for the finale.

Grasshoppers are silly rare In my experience, I saw 2 in ~ 1000 days in my first campaign (and 1 of those was post completion), but AFAIK, they should be present in every faction's Random Assignment Table, even the periphery powers.

As for what to run in your 4th slot, well, anything really. I'm not sure I'd be hanging onto the Jagermech for the 3rd slot, but it can work. If you're getting any regular amount of internal damage, let alone getting things shot off, you need to either max your armour or rethink your playstyle.
- Are you running Bulwark Pilots?
- If not, are you at least making good use of what evasion you can muster as well as using terrain like woods and marshes?
- Are you making use of your morale abilities?
- Are you isolating units and killing them before their friends can help or are you letting their entire force fire on you from out of LoS?
- You're spamming missiles for knockdown, but are you killing quickly enough?
- Are you getting piloting injuries via side torso destruction where possible or are you relying on 4/5/6 knockdowns to kill?
- Do you core trash 'mechs that you have no use for to limit numbers of OpFor on the field?
- Are you presenting 1 side to the enemy or are you facing front on?
- Do you pull your 'mechs back or at least change facings to protect your injured side if a mchine gets beat up?

The Orion makes for a nice enough missile boat with your prefered combination of LRM 20's and/or 15's, but you can also make it a nice brawler with one of the heavier AC's, your favourite missle loadout and some medium lasers (which is basically stock). The Orion was my first "real" heavy (Dragon's and Quickdraws don't count) and I used it all the way up until the final mission. Even a Thunderbolt should be sufficient to remain intact with a bit of care, especially if you're making use of JJ's.

As for the finding of assaults, you can start seeing them in 3 skull missions or higher, but they're not "common" (though that's not really the right word) until after you finish the campaign, but by picking up the 4-5 skull missions, you'll eventually run across some of them.

As for being "ready" for the last mission, I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will say 2 things:
1) When they say "mobility is going to be important" they're not kidding. JJ's are your friends.
2) If you're still taking internal structure damage and/or don't have cockpit mods to prevent injuries, prepare spares.


Also remember that if you see a mech you want to salvage the method you use to kill it dramatically affects how much salvage you can get. There is some randomness, but in general a CT kill gives you 1 salvage, a leg kill ( both legs shot off) gives you 2 salvage, and a pilot kill (incapacitating pilot WITHOUT destroying the mech) gives 3 salvage. Those aren't 100% guaranteed, though, as there seems to be some RNG, and other factors like exploding ammo seem to lower salvage chances. It's possible to get only 1 or zero salvage from a leg kill, for instance (I got zero salvage from a King Crab that I shot the legs off without destroying any other section, for instance).

The salvage thing is dependant on not losing the CT due to damage overflow. If you core something, regardless of what took it out originally, you'll only get the 1 piece (or 2 if you killed the pilot but took out both legs to do it). If the King Crab you're talking about wasn't story related, then it's a bug, otherwise, no, you can't salvage that King Crab. The exploding ammo thing will be for certain 'mechs that store ammo in their CT - when said ammo cooks off, it takes the CT with it by default, resulting in only 1 part.

[Olinser]

Correct, but each nation had their own tech programs and was generally working on the recovery of Lostech for quite a while before that, it's just that there's a huge difference between outfitting maybe a dozen or so units with 1-2 bits of special gear (3039) and retooling a couple of hundred regiments (3050+). Both sides of the 3039 war were very surprised to see lostech on the other side of the field, both sides thought they had the advantage, the Kuritan's via the deal with Comstar and the Lyrans and Davions with the NAIS and Alliance programs.



Grasshoppers are silly rare In my experience, I saw 2 in ~ 1000 days in my first campaign (and 1 of those was post completion), but AFAIK, they should be present in every faction's Random Assignment Table, even the periphery powers.

As for what to run in your 4th slot, well, anything really. I'm not sure I'd be hanging onto the Jagermech for the 3rd slot, but it can work. If you're getting any regular amount of internal damage, let alone getting things shot off, you need to either max your armour or rethink your playstyle.
- Are you running Bulwark Pilots?
- If not, are you at least making good use of what evasion you can muster as well as using terrain like woods and marshes?
- Are you making use of your morale abilities?
- Are you isolating units and killing them before their friends can help or are you letting their entire force fire on you from out of LoS?
- You're spamming missiles for knockdown, but are you killing quickly enough?
- Are you getting piloting injuries via side torso destruction where possible or are you relying on 4/5/6 knockdowns to kill?
- Do you core trash 'mechs that you have no use for to limit numbers of OpFor on the field?
- Are you presenting 1 side to the enemy or are you facing front on?
- Do you pull your 'mechs back or at least change facings to protect your injured side if a mchine gets beat up?

The Orion makes for a nice enough missile boat with your prefered combination of LRM 20's and/or 15's, but you can also make it a nice brawler with one of the heavier AC's, your favourite missle loadout and some medium lasers (which is basically stock). The Orion was my first "real" heavy (Dragon's and Quickdraws don't count) and I used it all the way up until the final mission. Even a Thunderbolt should be sufficient to remain intact with a bit of care, especially if you're making use of JJ's.

As for the finding of assaults, you can start seeing them in 3 skull missions or higher, but they're not "common" (though that's not really the right word) until after you finish the campaign, but by picking up the 4-5 skull missions, you'll eventually run across some of them.

As for being "ready" for the last mission, I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will say 2 things:
1) When they say "mobility is going to be important" they're not kidding. JJ's are your friends.
2) If you're still taking internal structure damage and/or don't have cockpit mods to prevent injuries, prepare spares.



The salvage thing is dependant on not losing the CT due to damage overflow. If you core something, regardless of what took it out originally, you'll only get the 1 piece (or 2 if you killed the pilot but took out both legs to do it). If the King Crab you're talking about wasn't story related, then it's a bug, otherwise, no, you can't salvage that King Crab. The exploding ammo thing will be for certain 'mechs that store ammo in their CT - when said ammo cooks off, it takes the CT with it by default, resulting in only 1 part.

Actually you CAN get salvage from the Story King Crab, but it seems to have significantly lower chances (I only got 1 salvage with a pilot incap kill) and even though it has the same number designation it is a unique variant and so cannot actually be combined with random spawn King Crabs, but since its got different weapons that does make sense. So the only salvage that matters is if you get 3x salvage which from the forums seems to be virtually impossible even with a 1 head shot pilot kill.

But yes, even leg and pilot kills are not guaranteed 100% 2 and 3 salvage from random spawn mechs. It seems like the more sections you blow off a mech before the killing blow, the more likely you will be to lose some of the theoretical max salvage. Blowing both torsos off and then legging a mech seems to pretty consistently return 1 salvage without an overflow kill into the CT.

[Drasius]

Actually you CAN get salvage from the Story King Crab, but it seems to have significantly lower chances (I only got 1 salvage with a pilot incap kill) and even though it has the same number designation it is a unique variant and so cannot actually be combined with random spawn King Crabs, but since its got different weapons that does make sense. So the only salvage that matters is if you get 3x salvage which from the forums seems to be virtually impossible even with a 1 head shot pilot kill.

But yes, even leg and pilot kills are not guaranteed 100% 2 and 3 salvage from random spawn mechs. It seems like the more sections you blow off a mech before the killing blow, the more likely you will be to lose some of the theoretical max salvage. Blowing both torsos off and then legging a mech seems to pretty consistently return 1 salvage without an overflow kill into the CT.

Then you need to check your file integrity and if nothing changes, then report it as a bug.

[The Glyphstone]

Is it worth investing in the Training Chambers? The varying/scaling costs of stat increases makes it very hard to judge how much you can buy with 10K/20K/30K XP if you're growing second-string pilots.

[Olinser]

Is it worth investing in the Training Chambers? The varying/scaling costs of stat increases makes it very hard to judge how much you can buy with 10K/20K/30K XP if you're growing second-string pilots.

Think of it in terms of missions to acquire the XP. On average you get about 2k experience per mission. So each Training Chamber will train them up to the approximately equivalent of 5/10/15 mission pilots.

As for worth it... that depends on what you're doing and how you're playing. If you refuse to take any mission until all your main 4 pilots are healed and reload any time a pilot dies, you won't ever need them because you're going to be past the XP gain ceiling by the time you build the upgrade.

If you're keeping a larger group of guys with different skill specializations, it will get your extra pilots there a lot faster than trying to train them all up by sending them on missions and get you decently-skilled backups.

Basically its a nice-to-have for some playstyles if you can spare the money but most other upgrades are much more valuable.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Is it worth investing in the Training Chambers? The varying/scaling costs of stat increases makes it very hard to judge how much you can buy with 10K/20K/30K XP if you're growing second-string pilots.

I consider it a time-saver, personally. Basically, it's however many missions fewer I have to grind out in some lower-difficulty area if I have to work up a newbie in the event of Surprise Headshot (had an AC/10 blow the head off of a mech, killing Glytch instantly), and that much faster you get to work your second-string crew up if your primary crew has been hogging all the glory XP.

I consider it similar to that ability in X-COM... uhh, the one where no one starts off as rookies anymore and at least start off as a relevant class. This gives you the ability to at least make sure your newbie has something like Bulwark or at least a fourth hit point so he doesn't die the moment he rolls out the door, headshots notwithstanding.

[Drasius]

Is it worth investing in the Training Chambers? The varying/scaling costs of stat increases makes it very hard to judge how much you can buy with 10K/20K/30K XP if you're growing second-string pilots.

Keep in mind that the growth is 20/30/50 XP per day, so assuming you get an unskilled nobody and train 'em up so their overall salary will be lower than just hiring someone good, you're looking at roughly:
- 18k/month for newbie (2/2/2/3) salary
- Newbies start with 1600 XP, so they "only" gain 8400 from lvl 1 pods, 18400 from lvl 2 and 28400 from lvl 3
- lvl 1 pod is 90k (plusrounding error 450/month upkeep), lvl 2 is 270k (and 1k/month upkeep) while lvl 3 is 450k (and 1.7k/month upkeep)

10k XP gets you a ~5/5/4/4 pilot (ie the basics plus your first 2 abilities), 20k gets you just shy of 8/5/4/4 (ie, 1 mission and you get your capstone) while 30k gets you a bit more, but you've already got all 3 abilities, so then it's time to get Gunnery to ~6 and then max out Guts for the health and heal time bonus.

Unfortunately, it takes ~420 days for a rookie to get to 10k XP from total newbie via a lvl 1 pod, that's 252k C-Bills in salary to pay for them just sitting around on the simulator (plus the 90k for the lvl 1 pod and the 7k for upkeep over those 14 months).
Assuming you have a lvl 2 pod, it's 280 days to get to 10k xp and 614 days to get to 20k xp. That's 168k/368k C-Bill in Salary (plus the 360k for the pods and the 13.5k/30k for upkeep)
If you're looking at a lvl 3 pod, it's 168/368/568 days to get to 10/20/30k xp, which is 100k/220k/340k C-Bills in Salary (plus the 810k for the pods and the 18k/39k/60k for upkeep)

If you just hire a roughly equally skilled pilot (assuming you can find one or that you've got the rating to hire one), you're looking at ~32k/40k/50k a month in costs while the rookie (once promoted to the same skill levels) would be looking at somewhere around 23k/30k/36k in salary.

That gives us a breakeven time of ~39 months for a ~10k XP pilot, ~76 months for a 20k xp pilot and ~86 months for a 30k xp pilot, and that's without considering that you can actually use the experienced mechwarrior in the 1-2 years that the rookie would be spending in the simpod. Obviously those numbers all get better if you're trainging more than 1 pilot, but I'd say that it's nowhere near enough compared to just hiring a scrub and shoving them in your LRM boat for 2-5 missions where they'll be perfectly safe and can still contribute.

TL:DR? The training pods are a terrible use of resources and only worth considering if you lose a mechwarrior ever single mission you do, in which case, you've almost certainly gone backrupt from 'mech repairs so you won't have to worry.

Edit: If you're at the point where such trivial amounts of money are troublesome, you can't really afford the pods anyway, and if you can afford the pods, you basically don't have money troubles, so it's kind of a moot point. I've got 8 'mechs sitting in the 'mech bay and 8 pilots on roster and pretty much every Argo upgrade and that was running me around 650k C-Bills a month at normal pay settings. Also for reference, after a rather large amount of faffing about doing side missions and playing poke'mech to collect'em all, my campaign was done in 920 days. Obviously it becomes a proper snadbox after that point and you can continue to play forever, but again, by that point, money is irrelevant.

[Kaptin Keen]

I like that for some missions, even random ones, the game offers real tactical choice.

For instance, I played a mission which presented me with a forested ridge. I didn't have to set up my mechs there, but it felt like something a sane person would do - and behold, tons of enemies came running at me across open ground, to be pounded into mush by my LRM's and PPC's. That was a wonderful victory.

I dislike that for other missions, random crap just makes a travesty of things.

There was a base assault, with reinforcements running in from behind. The base had four turrets, one sporting a double PPC (I guess?!). And ... I couldn't see that fourth turret. I don't know what was going on there, but I could not see or target it, so eventually my choice was to present my rear armor to the double PPC, or the incoming mechs.

Grrr!

[Alent]

Grasshoppers are silly rare In my experience, I saw 2 in ~ 1000 days in my first campaign (and 1 of those was post completion), but AFAIK, they should be present in every faction's Random Assignment Table, even the periphery powers.

I've seen two, the first time I saw one I screwed up really badly and it wasn't there upon take 2 at the mission. I parked my squishy artillery pieces right where reinforcements drop. Hurray~ (Well, I got interrupted by stuff during writing this and decided to drop some missions in, I've killed two more since hitting reply. :smallsigh: One I had to let go for... well, other stuff first. )


As for what to run in your 4th slot, well, anything really. I'm not sure I'd be hanging onto the Jagermech for the 3rd slot, but it can work. If you're getting any regular amount of internal damage, let alone getting things shot off, you need to either max your armour or rethink your playstyle.
- Are you running Bulwark Pilots?
- If not, are you at least making good use of what evasion you can muster as well as using terrain like woods and marshes?
- Are you making use of your morale abilities?
- Are you isolating units and killing them before their friends can help or are you letting their entire force fire on you from out of LoS?
- You're spamming missiles for knockdown, but are you killing quickly enough?
- Are you getting piloting injuries via side torso destruction where possible or are you relying on 4/5/6 knockdowns to kill?
- Do you core trash 'mechs that you have no use for to limit numbers of OpFor on the field?
- Are you presenting 1 side to the enemy or are you facing front on?
- Do you pull your 'mechs back or at least change facings to protect your injured side if a mchine gets beat up?

For the most part, I'm doing pretty much all these things, although I need to completely swap my pilot cadre as I didn't get enough with bulwark. Usually my casualties come from situations where I end up facing both halves of the OpFor at the same time due to just guessing where to go incorrectly. Like a mission I did while writing this post, I walked up a road and somehow aggroed the reinforcements before they even registered on sensors, and had to kill them just so I could actually take on the proper target.

Shifting in the bulwark team helped some, but has cost tactically as my bulwark pilots don't have the split fire skill. I'm training up some spares, I didn't assign that skill to enough people since I thought sensor locks were more important for a while.


The Orion makes for a nice enough missile boat with your prefered combination of LRM 20's and/or 15's, but you can also make it a nice brawler with one of the heavier AC's, your favourite missle loadout and some medium lasers (which is basically stock). The Orion was my first "real" heavy (Dragon's and Quickdraws don't count) and I used it all the way up until the final mission. Even a Thunderbolt should be sufficient to remain intact with a bit of care, especially if you're making use of JJ's.

I need to stop fixating on +stability damage LRMs, I think. I keep trying to get those bonuses over proper efficiency. I rejiggered it as a triple LRM boat and it's been doing okay.


As for the finding of assaults, you can start seeing them in 3 skull missions or higher, but they're not "common" (though that's not really the right word) until after you finish the campaign, but by picking up the 4-5 skull missions, you'll eventually run across some of them.

Complain, and thou shalt receive.

First mission today landed me an Atlas-D. (I can't believe I didn't have the "surgical extraction" achievement already...) Almost settled for one of the two stalkers and bugged out early, then saw the "enemy reinforcements" were a Battlemaster and an Atlas. I manage to kill both pilots. Sadly RNG salvage didn't give me the whole battlemaster. I'm up to 2/3 Battlemaster pieces, and I screwed up on another mission where I downed a Grasshopper whole- I didn't even have salvage rights on the mission. :smallsigh:

Lance, mk 2:

Atlas (AC/20+++ (+20 dmg, +20 stb damage.), Hit def +2 Gyro, Cockpit, dropped some lasers for assault jumpjets, otherwise stock with upgraded parts.)
Highlander (Stock)
Battlemaster (Trying some experiments since this is my forward scout.)
Orion (LRM 20+, LRM 10++ x2, buffed armor.)


This is working way better, ignoring when I walk past SRM carriers w/o sensor traces that drive up and shred arms off. :smallbiggrin:

Feeling like I might be ready for the last mission... we'll see. Here goes nothin'.

Edit: That was a joke. Even after losing the Battlemaster's head and Behemoth with it to a single lucky double headshot from a PPC turret at the start of the map, it was still silly easy. I even salvaged a second battlemaster out of it with relative ease, and went into part 2 with pretty much a totally fresh force. Should have salvaged the story mode boss mech, but for some reason it didn't show up as loot even though I splashed the pilot to death with fall damage...

I will probably beat it again when I have more time, tho'. Not upset about losing Behemoth, but I want another shot at that assault mech.

[Mechalich]

Should have salvaged the story mode boss mech, but for some reason it didn't show up as loot even though I splashed the pilot to death with fall damage...

I'm fairly certain this option is blocked and you cannot get any piece of that particular mech.

[Alent]

I'm fairly certain this option is blocked and you cannot get any piece of that particular mech.

That's what I thought at first, but during some forum trolling I found a way to make it happen. (I was pretty sleepy so it may have been from anywhere, earlier in the forum, or even dreamed it. I went looking earlier and couldn't find it again to re-link.) Save after you start the last battle, then load the save.

I'm guessing either it has a "Cannot be salvaged" flag that doesn't survive the save/load process, or something with the previous mission is jammed in the salvage files, since the salvage for that last mission is really messed up in other ways. (Large portions of enemy salvage are missing from the list in general.)

[Hunter Noventa]

Had a pretty good session last night. Took my crew on an Assassination mission, and the target was a Black Knight. After eliminating it's escort I closed in, boxed him out of the evac zone he was trying to get to, punched him, missiled him, and finished him with a DFA that left the pilot dead and the entire mech up for salvage. I'd only negotiated 2 picks, so i picked two of him and RNG got me the third, for my heaviest mech yet.

[thorgrim29]

I got the game yesterday. Steeljaw's Marauders are now a thing! I'm setting up my MechWarrior as long range fire support (tactics and gunnery focus) since I figure that way he'll spend less time in the medbay.

Since the game is pretty terrible at explaining things I have a few questions:

-Is there a point to light mechs? I know it says scouts but I tried using my spider that way and that only ended up with me needing to find a new pilot for it since it got focus fired by everything on the map (Grim Sybil was not very fun with 3 mechs btw.... I had to spend 2 months waiting around for my pilots and mech to be combat ready) and even when you get a perfect flanking position they don't seem to have enough firepower to do anything with it.

-How do I maximize mech scrap? I don't think I've seen more than 1 part for any mech so far after battles

- How do I get more mech bays and better medics?

[huttj509]

I got the game yesterday. Steeljaw's Marauders are now a thing! I'm setting up my MechWarrior as long range fire support (tactics and gunnery focus) since I figure that way he'll spend less time in the medbay.

Since the game is pretty terrible at explaining things I have a few questions:

-Is there a point to light mechs? I know it says scouts but I tried using my spider that way and that only ended up with me needing to find a new pilot for it since it got focus fired by everything on the map (Grim Sybil was not very fun with 3 mechs btw.... I had to spend 2 months waiting around for my pilots and mech to be combat ready) and even when you get a perfect flanking position they don't seem to have enough firepower to do anything with it.

-How do I maximize mech scrap? I don't think I've seen more than 1 part for any mech so far after battles

- How do I get more mech bays and better medics?

The last comes with story missions. Something will happen in terms of your ship.

Mech Scrap: If you destroy a mech's core, 1 scrap. Destroy both feet, 2 scrap (also takes the mech out of the fight). Kill the pilot without destroying the center torso, 3 scrap. This requires either destroying the head, or causing enough injuries by blowing up ammo, destroying LT and RT, or knocking the foe down or hitting the head.

Light mechs: Their main strengths are going before other stuff, and general mobility. In multiplayer they have their place, but in the campaign I found their usefulness to wane rapidly.

[Triaxx]

Focus on mobility for lighter Mechs. An evasion/sensor lock pilot is the best thing you can have. Lights seems to have better sensor range, and don't need to see a target to lock it for your heavy missile boats to shoot it.

[Hunter Noventa]

Once you pick up the second skill on the Tactics line that buffs your initiative there's much less use for Light mechs. Get yourself a relatively mobile Medium, or even some heavies (like a Dragon) and use them as a scout with your buffed initiative. If you could deploy more than 4 mechs, there'd be a better argument for a light mech in your loadout, but even then they aren't super useful.

[The Glyphstone]

So I managed to score an intact Grasshopper chassis. What should I do with it? The default loadout is awful, and does it really need that many heat sinks?