do natural attacks seem weak.

[Amdy_vill]

so most attack given to you by your race seem under powered at higher levels. i feel they should get some power as you go up un level. maybe every 5 levels you get any extra die. just seeing what people think.

[nickl_2000]

Are they weak compared to weapons, yes but not by that much if you really think it through.

A natural weapon usually does 1d4+strength, but you don't have to ever worry about being disarmed, you can grapple without putting the weapon away, and you don't need to worry about a free hand for spells.
A normal single handed weapon does 1d8+strength damage

Natural weapon goes to 1d4 or 2.5 average damage per attack
Single handed weapon is 1d8 or 4.5 average damage per attack.

This really isn't that much of a difference over the course of an encounter.


I suppose you could do that, but melee characters already have way to increase their damage in combat. A warlock has hex and smites, a fighter gets 4 attacks, rangers get spells, paladins have smites, barbarians get rage damage, BB and GFB users damage goes up on the cantrip. In all those cases if you are using your natural weapon your damage per round still goes up overall based on the class.

[hymer]

so most attack given to you by your race seem under powered at higher levels. i feel they should get some power as you go up un level. maybe every 5 levels you get any extra die. just seeing what people think.
Natural attacks do go up in damage as you advance, so long as you invest in the relevant ability. I see no reason why natural attacks should increase in dice when manufactured weapons don't. That's the monk's shtick.

[Unoriginal]

Natural attacks are as weak as attacking wit a club.

There is no reason to make them stronger, people developed tools for a reason.

[Amdy_vill]

Natural attacks are as weak as attacking wit a club.

There is no reason to make them stronger, people developed tools for a reason.

yes but these are not humans. there creatures with super powers. these weapons are what make them great natural hunters.

[GlenSmash!]

so most attack given to you by your race seem under powered at higher levels. i feel they should get some power as you go up un level. maybe every 5 levels you get any extra die. just seeing what people think.

Yes, but Druids get better natural weapons.

[Unoriginal]

yes but these are not humans. there creatures with super powers. these weapons are what make them great natural hunters.

Nope.

What makes them great hunters is that they're sapient tool users with training in hunting.

Their natural attacks aren't superpowers, either, they're as efficient as a punch made by a trained puncher.

Sure, the species' perks are nice, but they won't make you a superhero compared to other humanoids.

[Amdy_vill]

Nope.

What makes them great hunters is that they're sapient tool users with training in hunting.

Their natural attacks aren't superpowers, either, they're as efficient as a punch made by a trained puncher.

Sure, the species' perks are nice, but they won't make you a superhero compared to other humanoids.

i think have fire breath or razor sharp claws is a superpower

[Davrix]

At most you could increase the die slightly as you level say from D4 to a D6 at most. At about oh lv 10 but adding an extra die makes it better then any normal weapon then almost.

[Unoriginal]

i think have fire breath or razor sharp claws is a superpower

Those are powers alright, but not superpowers.

It's not "super" if it only puts you on par with the rest of the humanoids.

Not to say a Dragonborn Commoner wouldn't be dangerous when using their Breath, but it doesn't give them an incredible edge either. And a Tabaxi Commoner would just have the advantage of not needing to grab a club before the fight.

[nickl_2000]

Now, if you wanted to create a custom feat that improved the natural weapons. That I would be game for and allow at my table.

[JakOfAllTirades]

If you want to use UA, Minotaur horns do 1d10 damage.

[sophontteks]

Opposable thumbs are a superpower. My dog goes nuts when I throw a ball. He like "OMG how can you do that you are a god!"
Also because the mass extinction of large mammals was recently found to be a result of a certain species with opposable thumbs.

Claws aren't replacements to weapons in the game. But if you think of them as a situational ability rather then their main draw they aren't bad. Sometimes you may not have a weapon and when that happens they get the claw.

[thoroughlyS]

The premise of this thread only analyzes natural weapons in a vacuum, which doesn't make sense for a trait which comes bundled with race.

There are 4 officially published races with natural attacks:

Aarakocra
Lizardfolk
Tabaxi
Tortles

Aarokocra receive flight at 1st level, an ability so good that most DMs and Adventurer's League ban them from play. Their natural attack deals as much damage as a Club, which means they are effectively never unarmed.

Lizardfolk have a massive suite of racial traits, to the point that most characters won't be able to utilize all of them. That being said, their natural attack is a definite step up from something like the Aarakocra. Not only is the die size larger, it does not require a free hand, perhaps the best part about it.

Tabaxi, like the Lizardfolk, have a laundry list of racial traits. Their natural attack can be seen as a ribbon ability more than anything else.

Tortles are in the middle ground between Aarakocra and Lizardfolk. They receive one major trait (their natural armor), supplemented by a handful of lesser features which keep the race from feeling barren. Their natural attack, again, is more of a ribbon.



If you want to analyze the performance of natural weapons versus manufactured one, then I would argue damage dice are the least important aspect.

PROS:

Free
Automatically proficient (proficiency with unarmed attacks)
No object interaction to draw or stow
Deals more damage than a normal unarmed strike
Cannot be disarmed
May not require a hand

CONS:

Usually lower damage than a weapon
Not finesse
Harder to make magical
Harder to conceal (DM dependent)
Getting disarmed is way worse/Requires a hand/Harder to replace

[Honest Tiefling]

As for the issue of whether or not a humanoid should be using tools or weapons really depends on the race and setting. Having savage lizardfolk rip people apart with their teeth is really different from having the cat folk baker be able to murder any other commoner in town with a single swipe.

I think most races with access to them are fine. I think a custom feat or magical item to improve them are better approaches unless you really want to showcase how inhuman that race is, but that will be unsuitable for most campaigns and be extremely hard to roleplay.

[Amdy_vill]

Now, if you wanted to create a custom feat that improved the natural weapons. That I would be game for and allow at my table.

so you feel a balanced solution would be a feat?

[nickl_2000]

so you feel a balanced solution would be a feat?

Yes, a feat is a significant investment on the part of the player. If they are willing to spend a feat on a natural weapon, I would be willing to make it more powerful. Maybe something along this lines

Natural Weapon Fighter
You have received a blessing from the feywild enhancing your natural ability and weapons

The damage die for natural weapons is increased to 1d8
Your natural weapons now count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistances
When you are grappling, you may attack with your natural weapon even if you don't have a free hand



This needs a better name, but seems decent enough to me.