What would a thieves guild want from a small town?

[DireSickFish]

I'm doing a keep game where my players come into possession of a small keep, and the valley around it that contains a small town and some land. Upon finding out they're now land owners one of may characters sought out a thieves guild and tried to establish connections. I needed time to think so I said that they'd keep in touch.

The land they have is out of the way and off the main trail. The valey only has 2 reliable passes as entrances. One is guarded by their keep and the other I've described as a "murder woods". They are in a great farming area but the land is presently blighted, but I'm sure the party will take care of that.

What would a thieves guild find useful about a small out of the way rule place like this? What kind of plot hooks can I use? How do I make this profitable for the guild and the party? What kind of complications would come up from dealing with this low life elements (they are part of a larger kingdom, but don't have a lot of oversight yet)?

Any ideas you have would help!

[Sigreid]

Control of trade routes.
Contact with powerful adventurers and lesser novels that can be leveraged later.
First in the door for when it grows.
A quiet little smuggling route.

[JackPhoenix]

If they are just thieves, not much. Safehouse away from watchful eyes of the law, maybe, or a place to store stolen stuff, but both could propably be done more conveniently in a city.

If they are involved with more activities... place to grow drugs, or to make booze to avoid taxes.

Really, thieves are city folk, they don't have much of a reason to be in the middle of nowhere.

[2D8HP]

I suggest that you sit down and watch:

Yojimbo (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojimbo_(film)#Plot[I)

(Or at least read the plot synopsis)

[SirGraystone]

Since it's out of the way, there's probably little trade to loots or smuggling to do. But something of value must be in the valley to get the interest of the guild maybe a mine of silver or gold, unknown to the players. Or maybe ancient tombs that the thieves are looting.

[DireSickFish]

Since it's out of the way, there's probably little trade to loots or smuggling to do. But something of value must be in the valley to get the interest of the guild maybe a mine of silver or gold, unknown to the players. Or maybe ancient tombs that the thieves are looting.

There is a tin and iron mien in the valley. Uncertain how that benefits the guild. Weapons smuggling? Although weapons are fairly common and easy to get in the area.

[GlenSmash!]

Networking. Information, to keep a thumb on any independent operators that may get too big for their breeches.

[Sigreid]

Side note, literally inviting the criminal element into your home is a dumb idea.

[Joe the Rat]

Safehouse and out-of-the-way "Night Market" seem best - you describe it as being a bit out of the way, and it doesn't sound like trade goes through (what with the far end of the valley being murder woods). Now if there's a major route just outside, you have yourself a lovely little area for the bandits to retreat to between excursions, and possibly recruit locals.


Contact with powerful adventurers and lesser novels that can be leveraged later.

I am assuming a typo (lesser nobles), but the idea of optioning the story rights to the groups adventures is amusing - and for some reason "Thieve's Guild" and "Publishing House" kind of blend together in my head...

[DireSickFish]

Side note, literally inviting the criminal element into your home is a dumb idea.

But WHY is it a dumb idea?

I get theoretically it's not a wise move. But as the DM it's my responsibility to show why it isn't a bad move with consequences.

[Sigreid]

I am assuming a typo (lesser nobles), but the idea of optioning the story rights to the groups adventures is amusing - and for some reason "Thieve's Guild" and "Publishing House" kind of blend together in my head...

Autocorrect is a trecherous friend. That is funny though.

[SirGraystone]

I missed the part where it's a player wanting to make contact with the guild, that's a different story. Since the player is inviting the guild, let him find something worth the guild time. Maybe travelling merchant coming to the valley once or twice a month to deliver stuff to the village general store can be the guild contact.

"Look Tom, you seem a good guy but this little remove valley as little interesting us for now, but I like you and I talked with Guido about it, and if you need something from us send a message by Sam who bring supplies to the village every months."

"If we can help we will, for a price of course."

[Sigreid]

Autocorrect is a trecherous friend. That is funny though.


But WHY is it a dumb idea?

I get theoretically it's not a wise move. But as the DM it's my responsibility to show why it isn't a bad move with consequences.

Nobody wants to live in a crime ridden area. No guarantee they won't double cross you. The party will have to devote time and energy to keeping the guild in check or it will wind up running them.

[DMThac0]

A fully fledged thieves guild in a remote town would be a bit tough to swallow. However, let's play with the idea that the murder woods are actually a training camp for the assassins in a fully fledged thieves guild. This is a small location that no one would bother with, what better place to train would be assassins. The ore that can be mined provides a supplemental income, while also allowing them to keep the profile of towns folk.

What use do they have of the new lords? What better way to keep operations going than to provide some sense of usefulness that redirects the new lords attention. We can help with information brokering, and set up communications, sure...*waves hand* You do not see the well trained assassins at night heading to the woods.

Many a good ruler knew the merits of the underbelly of a city. What the public law enforcement can't do...the underbelly can. A bit of a grey area where the lord can call on them to, discretely, take care of a situation if the next time a problem arises in court, he turn a blind eye. The problem is making sure that the underbelly knows that the new lords have the power to make them suffer if they step out of line.

[DireSickFish]

Safehouse and out-of-the-way "Night Market" seem best - you describe it as being a bit out of the way, and it doesn't sound like trade goes through (what with the far end of the valley being murder woods). Now if there's a major route just outside, you have yourself a lovely little area for the bandits to retreat to between excursions, and possibly recruit locals.

This is a great idea. Just have them show up with a small group of unscrupulous individuals. Hand over some gold to make sure any wardens, government, or adventuring types don't find out about them.

That's basically a ticking timebomb in their town if they are criminals that have trouble with impulse control. Or if they are a bandit group going on raids having them come back with loot and blood on them poses some moral questions to the group. And will make them penetrating the local noble scene harder. Good way to galvinise their neighbors against them if they find out.

[Hecuba]

I'm doing a keep game where my players come into possession of a small keep, and the valley around it that contains a small town and some land. Upon finding out they're now land owners one of may characters sought out a thieves guild and tried to establish connections. I needed time to think so I said that they'd keep in touch.

The land they have is out of the way and off the main trail. The valey only has 2 reliable passes as entrances. One is guarded by their keep and the other I've described as a "murder woods". They are in a great farming area but the land is presently blighted, but I'm sure the party will take care of that.

What would a thieves guild find useful about a small out of the way rule place like this? What kind of plot hooks can I use? How do I make this profitable for the guild and the party? What kind of complications would come up from dealing with this low life elements (they are part of a larger kingdom, but don't have a lot of oversight yet)?

Any ideas you have would help!

Perhaps the valley is functionally beyond the reach of the authorities and thus only punitively has the rule of law. With only 2 reliable entrances and a feature called "murder woods," it sounds like an excellent redoubt for an organized criminal enterprise or guerrilla force: when the people in power are actively trying to kill you, a place you can retreat to where they cannot expect to do so is very valuable.

[Mjolnirbear]

Easy marks.

Lack of law.

A certain product or service worth lots to city folks.

A base of operations where people are easily frightened into submission.

A place to hide.

More lax laws, or more lax security (gangs often have drug operations in small towns; rent is cheaper, easier to hide, easier to move, less scrutiny, small towns rarely have the resources for a big drug bust).

What's illegal in the city (unlicenced potion-making) might be legal in town.

[Gorgo]

A canny guildmaster might realize that having a party of powerful characters take over often means that the area is about to see some serious growth, and want to get in on the ground floor to establish control ...

[MintyNinja]

I'll put another vote behind, "Having a quiet place to lay low or stash goods." All they need is some sort of friendly business or contacts and they can run riskier schemes out in the world. Also, an Inn not only gives you rooms to hide people in, but also stables to smuggle goods or people out of town. Having powerful adventurers nearby is also beneficial in that someone has to buy their cast-off Magic Items.

[Knaight]

This has "hideout" written all over it. Going out in the middle of nowhere is basically the ideal place to lay low, and the presence of a powerful and friendly independent power structure just makes it better. The thieves' guild is likely to send their members with the most heat on them to hide out for a while.

As for plot hooks and complications, this scenario is replete with them. Not only are they effectively inviting organized crime to their town, the subset that needs to hide out is likely to be some combination of volatile, unsubtle, and just plain violent. Said people could easily return to form, and suddenly some innocent farmer has been stabbed to death in a bar. Alternately, there's enough heat on someone really high profile that the authorities do follow them, and as far as said authorities are concerned the PCs are complicit in hiding them there*, which has the potential to bring all sorts of trouble.

There's a lot of ways in which this plan can backfire horribly. Fortunately, a lot of these are potentially really fun.

*Probably on account of the way they're complicit in hiding them there.

[Temperjoke]

People have touched on some of the possible reasons, but here's a couple more:

1. Investment - What if the guild has heard information in their city networks that the crown is planning a new trade route with a neighboring kingdom through that town? That city would become an important trade town, especially if it's a safe place to stay near a "murder woods".

2. The mines - If they control those mines, they can arrange for problems at some of the other mines, giving their mines a bigger chunk of profit and influence. Plus, sending people you don't like to work in your obscure mines in a dangerous frontier is less obvious murder.

Some things for you to consider, what is just outside the immediate area? That's going to be a big factor in your decision making. If it's on the border, for example, what is on the other side of the border? How far is the nearest village?

[Honest Tiefling]

Criminal organizations often work (or don't) because of a shared sense of identity or community. Like the idea that others will always have your back or that you share a culture. With that in mind, perhaps this town is of importance not financially but symbolically to this group. Maybe the founders came from this little town so the thieves smuggle goods through it, but don't touch it and will break anyone who does. Maybe they claim descent from an important figure who is connected to this place. Maybe it isn't even the entire group, but a single powerful individual who has a lover, family or friends in the place.

Perhaps they keep a safe house here or even just retire here. They might be religious and settle down to practice the religion once they are done earning money. It might not be a NICE religion, but it might be better then whatever is causing the blight. Maybe a god of farmers or outcasts, and this thieve's guild steals from the rich to give to the poor (which includes them) because no one else looks out for them?

[ImproperJustice]

Living in a modern rural area that is recently enjoying a massive influx of several major gangs:

Drug labs, growing drugs and human trafficking are all industries that prosper best in areas with abundant real estate and minimal authority.

Additionally, there are a series of shoplifting or stolen merchandise distribution centers that have cropped up under the guise of shipping warehouses.

It could be the retreat for some upper level criminal leadership.

Additionally, I also live close to the birthplace of Nascar which got its start from bootleggers racing their modified cars which they used to smuggle booze.

Maybe your isolated area is the home to secret criminal horse or airship races?

[Crgaston]

Living in a modern rural area that is recently enjoying a massive influx of several major gangs:

Drug labs, growing drugs and human trafficking are all industries that prosper best in areas with abundant real estate and minimal authority.

Additionally, there are a series of shoplifting or stolen merchandise distribution centers that have cropped up under the guise of shipping warehouses.

It could be the retreat for some upper level criminal leadership.

Additionally, I also live close to the birthplace of Nascar which got its start from bootleggers racing their modified cars which they used to smuggle booze.

Maybe your isolated area is the home to secret criminal horse or airship races?

There is also (IRL) gambling, sometimes on {rooster}fighting and dog fighting, in rural areas, which translates well to a D&D world. Maybe the guild wants to build a retreat/arena/casino in a town where they can ensure the authorities will be amenable.

[Spiritchaser]

Smuggling seems reasonable.

Darker?

How about smuggling as a front for a well hidden slave trade with some unpleasant types who take their slaves deep into a cave...

Weirder?

A strange plant grants magical abilities, but at an inevitable and terrible cost to the user. It grows nearby. Side effects may be best determined randomly.

Lighthearted?

Two guild masters chose to solve the rivalry between their respective dens of thieves by having a competition. Smuggle something... difficult to smuggle, like maybe a kings horse or a live walrus? Along a predetermined (bizarre) course through many small towns and large cities.

Don’t get caught

Do what you can to thwart the other side

Cheat like hell!

[Armored Walrus]

Lighthearted?

Two guild masters chose to solve the rivalry between their respective dens of thieves by having a competition. Smuggle something... difficult to smuggle, like maybe a kings horse or a live walrus? Along a predetermined (bizarre) course through many small towns and large cities.

Hey! No one's smuggling me anywhere! Oh, is that a mackerel I see in the trunk of your carriage, sir?

Edit: On topic, being from small town Wisconsin, there's definitely precedent for organized crime operating out of small towns. Al Capone and the other Chicago gansters had hideouts all over northern Wisconsin, not to mention spots where airplanes could bring in booze from Canada. A lot of human trafficking starts in small towns. There's meth, heroine and pot all over, for reasons already mentioned in the thread. (ie. low rent, understaffed law enforcement, not to mention they are protected by the veil of "that kind of thing doesn't happen around here")

[Ogre Mage]

A place to bury the bodies (literally or figuratively) where no one will find them.

If the great farm land even gets unblighted, it could be used to grow crops used to manufacture drugs (opium poppy, etc.)

[Knaight]

Edit: On topic, being from small town Wisconsin, there's definitely precedent for organized crime operating out of small towns. Al Capone and the other Chicago gansters had hideouts all over northern Wisconsin, not to mention spots where airplanes could bring in booze from Canada. A lot of human trafficking starts in small towns. There's meth, heroine and pot all over, for reasons already mentioned in the thread. (ie. low rent, understaffed law enforcement, not to mention they are protected by the veil of "that kind of thing doesn't happen around here")

A fair amount of this is pretty dependent on modern transportation infrastructure though - Al Capone and similar also had cars, interior drug labs or grow houses depend on advanced chemistry or artificial lighting and are much more subtle than a field of poppy flowers or similar, so on and so forth. That's not to say that these can't happen, or even that some of these same factors (the magic of "that kind of thing doesn't happen around here" in particular) don't apply.

[Honest Tiefling]

A fair amount of this is pretty dependent on modern transportation infrastructure though - Al Capone and similar also had cars, interior drug labs or grow houses depend on advanced chemistry or artificial lighting and are much more subtle than a field of poppy flowers or similar, so on and so forth. That's not to say that these can't happen, or even that some of these same factors (the magic of "that kind of thing doesn't happen around here" in particular) don't apply.

Hrm...But depending on the OP's setting, there could be an ancient teleportation circle or a fey crossroads. I sorta like the idea of a fey-themed gang, perhaps sticking together due to a shared identity or perceived injustices.

[Grod_The_Giant]

A girl living in a lonely world? Looking to take a midnight carriage to anywhere?

[2D8HP]

A girl living in a lonely world? Looking to take a midnight carriage to anywhere?


Don't stop BE-E-ELIE-E-E-EVING

[Tetrasodium]

I'm doing a keep game where my players come into possession of a small keep, and the valley around it that contains a small town and some land. Upon finding out they're now land owners one of may characters sought out a thieves guild and tried to establish connections. I needed time to think so I said that they'd keep in touch.

The land they have is out of the way and off the main trail. The valey only has 2 reliable passes as entrances. One is guarded by their keep and the other I've described as a "murder woods". They are in a great farming area but the land is presently blighted, but I'm sure the party will take care of that.

What would a thieves guild find useful about a small out of the way rule place like this? What kind of plot hooks can I use? How do I make this profitable for the guild and the party? What kind of complications would come up from dealing with this low life elements (they are part of a larger kingdom, but don't have a lot of oversight yet)?

Any ideas you have would help!



I'm reading a fascinating book series called Gentlemen Bastards (https://www.goodreads.com/series/43531-gentleman-bastard) that really gets into different aspects of a thieve's guild type thing. I highly suggest it for any GM or just person who enjoys good books.

As to the particular situation you describe, it does not sound like the area being discussed has anything of interest to a thieve's guild. Things change dramatically when you flip the arrangement on its head however.

A thieves guild is going to have gangs & things that are made up of everything from:

charmers who provide some form of distraction for themselves or another to pickpocket
Rabits/ snatch & grab, pickpockets, etc
people who specialize in second story work/burglars
safecrackers
Lookouts for others
toughs who have knives & things to make people suitably warned or dead when not doing things like protecting the "peace" if tempers flare hot.
bruisers who keep the first two in line, make sure they follo the rules of their gang, don't hit unacceptable targets, turn in the proper cut, etc. These guys are probably the fist couple but a few years in


The service that your useless little plot of remote can provide for a thieve's guild is to buy promising brousers/potential toughs that are just not needed & provide a retirement for experienced toughs who want to get out of the game. That grants your PC's the start of a local patrol useful for taking care of any possible bandits or common wildlife threats.... Those patrols might only be scout/guard/bandit types with a bit of a thieves guild type slant on things like persuade/intimidate/slight of hand/stealth/perception over stuff like the skills those creature statblocks have, but they have one extremely valuable perk that would not be present if just hiring random folks off the street.

That perk is that at least one of them is probably used to keeping the others in line & willing to kill any of the others who threaten a good thing (like a safe well paying semi respectable retirement). because most of them probably started the thieve's guild as orphans/slaves/etc, there really is nobody to speak up if one suddenly goes "missing" & falls off the earth around the time someone starts noticing things going missing. The average guard salary of around 1.5-3+gp/day combined with things like "and this part of the barracks/house is yours as long as you are in good standing" is more than they could make being thieves so beyond maybe cheating at cards & stuff, they should remain pretty loyal.

As a Client of the thieve's guild complete with guards who used to be members of it, shipments of whatever is grown/mined by your PC's villagers will probably have some reasonable layer of insulation from the thieve's guild & a small monthly stipend atop the fee per head could allow your PC's to have the thieve's guild itself take care of any unacceptable predations on caravants going to/from their village & wherever the thieve's guild is based.

[Cwyll]

Small idea:
Let the thieves guild offer some staff that have been injured in the line of duty (few missing digits/limbs, mildly incontinent, st st stammer etc).
Say they're doing a favour for them by providing R&R as part of the 'benificent' aspect of the guild.

Next time they're in town, they can find the wanted posters and fin that a bunch of the worst killers, maimers, rapists, extortionists etc are lying low on their estate.
That's why old 'one eyed johnson' manages to get those new herbs growing so well...

[Amdy_vill]

I'm doing a keep game where my players come into possession of a small keep, and the valley around it that contains a small town and some land. Upon finding out they're now land owners one of may characters sought out a thieves guild and tried to establish connections. I needed time to think so I said that they'd keep in touch.

The land they have is out of the way and off the main trail. The valey only has 2 reliable passes as entrances. One is guarded by their keep and the other I've described as a "murder woods". They are in a great farming area but the land is presently blighted, but I'm sure the party will take care of that.

What would a thieves guild find useful about a small out of the way rule place like this? What kind of plot hooks can I use? How do I make this profitable for the guild and the party? What kind of complications would come up from dealing with this low life elements (they are part of a larger kingdom, but don't have a lot of oversight yet)?

Any ideas you have would help!

in a small town they would probably just use it as an outpost to keep tabs on other things there doing and other guilds are doing. they may also be trying to build it up and in doing so build it in a way that they can control it.

[Coec]

You could have the thieves guild start out small with a single individual. Similar to LMoP where Halia is working as a mining trader, but is actually a zhent agent. Build up from there as the town grows or maybe more sights of interest become available. You could keep this growth from the players or let them know, that's up to you.