Psychic Warrior keyed off of HP

[Tvtyrant]

Question from a discussion with a player. Most of the Psychic Warrior powers can be fluffed as physical exertion, so we are talking about keying the powers off of HP and fluffing it as massively overexerting their body.

So the character has HP drained (not just damaged) and can't heal until nightfall. I am also assuming they are going to be able to use their powers morw often this way in return for being more fragile.

What ratio of HP to PP seems adequate? 3-4 seems about riggt from eyeballing it but advice would be great.

[Nifft]

Question from a discussion with a player. Most of the Psychic Warrior powers can be fluffed as physical exertion, so we are talking about keying the powers off of HP and fluffing it as massively overexerting their body.

So the character has HP drained (not just damaged) and can't heal until nightfall. I am also assuming they are going to be able to use their powers morw often this way in return for being more fragile.

What ratio of HP to PP seems adequate? 3-4 seems about riggt from eyeballing it but advice would be great.

HP damage doesn't make you fatigued or exhausted, unlike physical exertion which can fatigue or exhaust.

What's your plan for temporary HP and the share pain power?

[Tvtyrant]

HP damage doesn't make you fatigued or exhausted, unlike physical exertion which can fatigue or exhaust.

What's your plan for temporary HP and the share pain power?

We have always ruled HP as being a combination of exhaustion and accumulated damage, not actual wounds. Just a group thing.

They aren't effected the character isn't being dealt damage but having their max HP drained. A Psychic Warrior could make a ton of temporary HP with Vigor, but would be draining their base HP a great deal and cannot use Vigor for powers.

[Karl Aegis]

So (Healing) subdiscipline powers just do nothing? That doesn't sound very fun. Also nerfs empathic transfer. Why would a Psionic Plane Shift cause hit point drain?

[Tvtyrant]

So (Healing) subdiscipline powers just do nothing? That doesn't sound very fun. Also nerfs empathic transfer. Why would a Psionic Plane Shift cause hit point drain?

No, they heal damage taken normally they just don't heal damaged used to power powers.

Physical strain from pushing through the boundaries of space and time without magic.

Think of it like this. If the normal psychic warrior uses Claws of the Beast he is generating magic claws over his hands, this version he is driving his fingers into someone so hard they act like claws. Normally expansion would be using psychic energy to get bigger, here he pumps himself up until he acts like a much bigger creature. These actions cause muscles to tear, skin to peel and blood vessels to pop.

[heavyfuel]

Two main points of consideration: Vigor and the standard HP/PP over the levels.

1 - Vigor

The Vigor power lets you spend 1 PP to gain 5 Temp HP. By this logic, the conversion rate should be less than 5, since temporary HP for a few minutes isn't nearly as good as HP. It also makes sense that you can spend some of your energy to delay your tiredness.

However, Share Pain brings another dimension to this. Assuming you're sharing with your Psicrystal like all other kids are, 1 PP effectively becomes 10 Temp HP. This combo is hardly game breaking, as it eats at your action economy, and Share Pain itself would cause HP drain.

Assuming the HP drain is not shared (as the power only shares damage), I would disconsider Share Pain entirely.


2 - HP/PP by level.

Compare what I believe is a rather average PsyWar over 4 different levels, 5, 10, 15, and 20.

Lv 5 : Con 14, Wis 14 gives 36 HP and 12 PP
Lv 10: Con 16, Wis 16 gives 78 HP and 42 PP
Lv 15: Con 18, Wis 18 gives 131 HP and 97 PP
Lv 20: Con 20, Wis 20 gives 193 HP and 177 PP

At lower levels you have more than triple HP compared to PP, but at high levels, they're roughly equals.

Giving a 1:1 ratio actually makes you stronger at lower levels, and at higher levels, a ratio such as 3 HP/PP would kill you incredibly fast.

I'd say give it a 1:1 ratio. It will still struggle, but a 4:1 as you suggested would kill anyone very quickly.

[Tvtyrant]

Two main points of consideration: Vigor and the standard HP/PP over the levels.

1 - Vigor

The Vigor power lets you spend 1 PP to gain 5 Temp HP. By this logic, the conversion rate should be less than 5, since temporary HP for a few minutes isn't nearly as good as HP. It also makes sense that you can spend some of your energy to delay your tiredness.

However, Share Pain brings another dimension to this. Assuming you're sharing with your Psicrystal like all other kids are, 1 PP effectively becomes 10 Temp HP. This combo is hardly game breaking, as it eats at your action economy, and Share Pain itself would cause HP drain.

Assuming the HP drain is not shared (as the power only shares damage), I would disconsider Share Pain entirely.


2 - HP/PP by level.

Compare what I believe is a rather average PsyWar over 4 different levels, 5, 10, 15, and 20.

Lv 5 : Con 14, Wis 14 gives 36 HP and 12 PP
Lv 10: Con 16, Wis 16 gives 78 HP and 42 PP
Lv 15: Con 18, Wis 18 gives 131 HP and 97 PP
Lv 20: Con 20, Wis 20 gives 193 HP and 177 PP

At lower levels you have more than triple HP compared to PP, but at high levels, they're roughly equals.

Giving a 1:1 ratio actually makes you stronger at lower levels, and at higher levels, a ratio such as 3 HP/PP would kill you incredibly fast.

I'd say give it a 1:1 ratio. It will still struggle, but a 4:1 as you suggested would kill anyone very quickly.

Very good breakdown, thank you!

[Zombulian]

Maybe have using powers stack up (unhealable) non-lethal damage instead of actual hp? This seems to match exertion better than HP simply because you just pass out rather than die.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Maybe have using powers stack up (unhealable) non-lethal damage instead of actual hp? This seems to match exertion better than HP simply because you just pass out rather than die.

Take a look at Pathfinder’s Kineticist class for inspiration if you go this route

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd be investing in psionic Viagra for the biggest hardness score I could.

[heavyfuel]

Maybe have using powers stack up (unhealable) non-lethal damage instead of actual hp? This seems to match exertion better than HP simply because you just pass out rather than die.

Good idea. Also helps them not die to a lousy blow after a long day of manifesting.

Probably put in a clause that you're never immune to this particular type of non-lethal damage.

[Tvtyrant]

Good idea. Also helps them not die to a lousy blow after a long day of manifesting.

Probably put in a clause that you're never immune to this particular type of non-lethal damage.

At this point it is a straight up upgrade though, reducing MAD and granting extra powerpoints for no drawback.

[Karl Aegis]

Between Psionic Talent, Cognizance Crystals and Torc of Power Preservation, Power Points are easier to come by than hit points. You're pretty much limited to hit dice, constitution, creature type and a handful of feats to get more hit points.

[Tvtyrant]

Between Psionic Talent, Cognizance Crystals and Torc of Power Preservation, Power Points are easier to come by than hit points. You're pretty much limited to hit dice, constitution, creature type and a handful of feats to get more hit points.

Okay, none-lethal damage thst cannot be ignored it is.

[Uncle Pine]

Dragonlance has stuff about magic affecting spellcasters physically (I've only played the setting on nwn, so I can't point you to a sourcebook specifically), so if you borrow those rules and apply them to psionic powers you could call it a day while still keeping hp and pp separate.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you are worried about players saying "I stil have 1 HP, I can fight at full POWER!" Just implement a penalty. Say "fatigue when you have half your HP drained, exausted at 3/4ths spent "

[Mordaedil]

If you are worried about players saying "I stil have 1 HP, I can fight at full POWER!" Just implement a penalty. Say "fatigue when you have half your HP drained, exausted at 3/4ths spent "

I've played with this before and I don't recommend it. It just doesn't work for D&D. The way we got happy with it was to make it a penalty for when you are brought back from negative hit points. And the third time leaves you unconscious until you restore from exhaustion.