Best rogue subclass for a zealot barb dual wield mc?

[Spacehamster]

So if you wanted to play a mountain dwarf dual wielding scimitars or short swords with STR and wanted to add some dpr to it by going rogue, which rogue subclass would be best for this? Thinking scout would be both thematic and powerful, swashbucklerwould prob be quite nice too? Level splitwould be 5 barb, 4 rogue, back to barb level 9 amd then rest in rogue for a 9/11split.

Start attributets with racials prob 17/14/17/8/10/8

ASI/feats in order: +1 STR/CON, +2 STR, Mobile, Resilient(WIS) and Observant.

[nickl_2000]

I would say Swashbuckler for the ability to get Sneak attack damage more easily.

[Spacehamster]

I would say Swashbuckler for the ability to get Sneak attack damage more easily.

We usually run very melee heavy group so that one would not come up that often, should have said that in the post but since it is just a thought experiment as I have no idea when we will get to play(darn adult life!) I forgot to do so. :)

[ProsecutorGodot]

I would say Swashbuckler for the ability to get Sneak attack damage more easily.

Reckless attack with a Rapier, or any other finesse weapon, swung using strength would do it every time.

I'd say swashbuckler is out if you plan on having mobile and have access to reckless attack. You also don't gain any benefit from the +cha to initiative with that statline. Cha is moderately important to a swashbuckler and tanking it leaves your class features weaker.

Scout looks good to me, the reactionary move will let you stay where the fight is or put yourself between the threat and your team. Gaining more movement on top of that at level 9 is also great, being that fast as a Barbarian is only a good thing.

[the secret fire]

We usually run very melee heavy group so that one would not come up that often, should have said that in the post but since it is just a thought experiment as I have no idea when we will get to play(darn adult life!) I forgot to do so. :)

If your group is so melee-heavy and you plan on spending a lot of time fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with other PCs, Wolf Totem is probably the best barbarian subclass for you. Just sayin'.

As far as Rogue subclasses go, there's no reason to take Swashbuckler, as Reckless Attack will generate advantage for you. I'd go with Thief. Second Story work has good synergy with anything that grants extra movement (Mobile), and Fast Hands is a really underrated ability, especially if you're going to be close to the front lines a lot and can make good use of bonus action Sleight of Hand and Use Object.

[GlenSmash!]

Reckless attack with a Rapier, or any other finesse weapon, swung using strength would do it every time.

I'd say swashbuckler is out if you plan on having mobile and have access to reckless attack. You also don't gain any benefit from the +cha to initiative with that statline. Cha is moderately important to a swashbuckler and tanking it leaves your class features weaker.

Scout looks good to me, the reactionary move will let you stay where the fight is or put yourself between the threat and your team. Gaining more movement on top of that at level 9 is also great, being that fast as a Barbarian is only a good thing.

I'm with you on Scout. Good mechanically and the expertise are fitting with the theme for a Barb.

[GlenSmash!]

So if you wanted to play a mountain dwarf dual wielding scimitars or short swords with STR and wanted to add some dpr to it by going rogue, which rogue subclass would be best for this? Thinking scout would be both thematic and powerful, swashbucklerwould prob be quite nice too? Level splitwould be 5 barb, 4 rogue, back to barb level 9 amd then rest in rogue for a 9/11split.

Start attributets with racials prob 17/14/17/8/10/8

ASI/feats in order: +1 STR/CON, +2 STR, Mobile, Resilient(WIS) and Observant.

Barb/ Rogue is awesome, but not taking Zealot to 14 seems a bit funny to me.

[Specter]

Scout, just to run around the battlefield like a madman.

[Spacehamster]

Barb/ Rogue is awesome, but not taking Zealot to 14 seems a bit funny to me.

What do they get at 14 thats so great. Thought they were quite frontloaded amd got the most juicy bits at 3?

[ProsecutorGodot]

What do they get at 14 thats so great. Thought they were quite frontloaded amd got the most juicy bits at 3?

If you're raging and you get knocked to 0 hit points, you keep fighting until your rage ends no matter what. As long as you're restored to above 0 hit points before your rage ends you don't die.

You can fail as many death saves as you need to make sure the enemy is dead and then chug a potion and you're fine.

There is that small issue of instant death, but you'd be a 14th level barb so the chances that you take your hit point total in damage in one go is about as impossible as you ever dying in the first place.

[lilika]

11 lvls of rogue give you
6d6 damage average 21
Rogue stuff (mainly skills and half damage on reaction)

11 lvl of barbarian give you
plus 3 damage per rage attack (2 from str and 1 from rage)
62 more hit points (22 from lvling up and 40 from +4 con at lvl 20
+2 to hit at lvl 20 (from str +2)
+2 con save (at lvl 20)
more rages per day
stuff

in the short run a little more damage with less health less rages. Long run you will be less everything at 20

[Vogie]

You could dip into fighter for TWF and a martial discipline? Improved critical, Brute force, or Unwavering mark would all be ways to pump out more damage in a more reliable way than a Rogue dip, especially since you have +0 Charisma

[ProsecutorGodot]

11 lvls of rogue give you
6d6 damage average 21
Rogue stuff (mainly skills and half damage on reaction)

11 lvl of barbarian give you
plus 3 damage per rage attack (2 from str and 1 from rage)
62 more hit points (22 from lvling up and 40 from +4 con at lvl 20
+2 to hit at lvl 20 (from str +2)
+2 con save (at lvl 20)
more rages per day
stuff

in the short run a little more damage with less health less rages. Long run you will be less everything at 20

Sure the barbarian capstone is a big thing to lose but if you're meaning to compare the difference between Barb9/Rogue11 and Barb11/Rogue9 the only considerable tradeoff, in my opinion, is whether you want reliable talent compared to relentless rage. 1d6 extra sneak attack is only okay at this point. Rage uses and Rage damage are the same at both levels (which is +3 by itself, I don't know where you got 1 from rage). The difference in hit points, assuming average is taken, is also only 4 and at maximum 8.

I don't agree that the multiclass will be generally less good than a pure Barb or Rogue either, because that's not why OP asked for multiclass advice. A tank who can also be a skill monkey with strong burst damage is nothing to scoff at, pure barbs tend to just smash and pure rogues tend to die quickly under focus fire. A mix of both offers a good amount of versatility and I feel that mixing the 2 classes shores up a lot of their weaknesses.

The developers thought the same, since they put a lot in place to make this multiclass difficult to optimize.

This character concept in general is looking very appealing to me already, reliable talent almost guarantees a success on checks so you get to be useful outside of combat, you get the feelsgoodman that comes with huge sneak attack damage and because of zealot path you can throw yourself into the fray with near reckless abandon and in the off chance you do end up dead, it's basically free to scrape you off the dirt and get you moving again.

[Biggstick]

11 lvls of rogue give you
6d6 damage average 21
Rogue stuff (mainly skills and half damage on reaction)

11 lvl of barbarian give you
plus 3 damage per rage attack (2 from str and 1 from rage)
62 more hit points (22 from lvling up and 40 from +4 con at lvl 20
+2 to hit at lvl 20 (from str +2)
+2 con save (at lvl 20)
more rages per day
stuff

in the short run a little more damage with less health less rages. Long run you will be less everything at 20

You might argue that it's less actual HP, but it's effectively way more HP. Uncanny Dodge allows you to half damage while you're not raging and while you're raging. It extends your HP pool by quite a bit. You're also picking up Evasion, which as a Zealot Barbarian, you don't actually have resistance to elemental attacks. Providing a Barbarian the ability to completely ignore incoming elemental damage, which they don't actually have resistance for as Zealot Barbarians, is an incredibly powerful feature. It turns your Barbarian into something that can deal with pretty much all effects except mind control ones.

For the OP, is there a reason you're going that high into Barbarian in the first place? You only need 5-6 levels of Barbarian for it to have everything you need. Getting 14-15 levels of Rogue is going to provide more for you overall imo, and allows for a smoother, faster build path into what you're looking for.

Hear me out. Run with Barbarian levels for your first 5 levels, then grab 3 levels of Rogue. You'll be incredibly tanky for the first part of your career, and then pick up the "skilled" part of your build with the Rogue levels. At this point, you can decide to go for more Rogue levels (level 4 = feat, level 5 = Uncanny Dodge, level 6 = Expertise, level 7 = Evasion, etc), or you can grab your 6th level of Barbarian. Now the 6th level of Barbarian is a solid jump to your day's standard longevity, as it provides you a 4th Rage to use per day. If you're playing smart and have medium armor, 14 Dexterity, and use a Shield, you should have at least 18 AC by now, and can properly use Rage when it's most relevant. In my experience on higher level Barbarians, I've found 4 Rages is the point in which I'm not using every Rage during a standard adventuring day.

Now the reason I recommend 14-15 levels of Rogue serves a couple purposes. First it gets you additional ASI's. As this multiclass character that doesn't mesh up nicely, picking up the additional ASI at Rogue 10 puts you back at the 5 ASI total again. It also provides you a "capstone" of sorts in the 13th level Rogue ability, based on the archetype you choose. In my play through of Barbarian-Rogues, I've always gone Thief myself. Being able to wield any Magic Item at 19th level just seems incredibly powerful at that point in time. I'm also a fan of playing this as a Strength based character, and using the Thief's level 3 feature to interact with Objects as a Bonus Action against enemies as much as possible. It's a lot more interactive and gets you messing with the environment/enemy more so then you normally would.

I said all that to say that while Barbarian is a solid class, mixing it with Rogue will make your mid-tier levels quite fun. You'll have extremely high mobility and an almost complete Action Economy (depending on if you can find something to use your reaction on that isn't Uncanny Dodge). Your biggest weakness would be mental saves, but grabbing something like Resilient Wisdom and/or Lucky isn't too tough on this character.

[GlenSmash!]

What do they get at 14 thats so great. Thought they were quite frontloaded amd got the most juicy bits at 3?

Only extra damage, and the ability to be resurrected without costing material components at level 3. 14 is the good stuff.

[Specter]

Only extra damage, and the ability to be resurrected without costing material components at level 3. 14 is the good stuff.

Yep. Level 14 is ""Death? That sounds nice. Mind if I ignore it?"