First 3rd Level Spell recommendations ??

[kweek]

First time sorcerer coming up on Level 6. I've been thinking about Dispel Magic for my first 3rd level spell. Is there something better you would start with? What are some recommended favorite first choices?

[FelineArchmage]

First time sorcerer coming up on Level 6. I've been thinking about Dispel Magic for my first 3rd level spell. Is there something better you would start with? What are some recommended favorite first choices?

What type of role do you fill in the party? That can help narrow down some spells for you.

[kweek]

I've been mostly ranged offensive. It'd be cool to do something that could benefit the party in combat other than damage. Maybe Slow would be a good first eh?

[FelineArchmage]

I've been mostly ranged offensive. It'd be cool to do something that could benefit the party in combat other than damage. Maybe Slow would be a good first eh?

Whenever I level up in an arcane class, I always look at Treantmonk's guide to being a god wizard and Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizard's: Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?104002-3-5e-The-Logic-Ninja-s-Guide-to-Wizards-Being-Batman). I get my first ideas from there before scouring the Spell Compendium/PHB. They both heavily focus on battlefield control, utility spells, and buffs/debuffs. Good place to start if you want to do something other than blasting. (I know they are wizard guide links, but sorcerer's share the spell list so it works out well).

If you don't want a blasting spell and if you have a lot of melee people in your party, Haste is a solid spell. Increased speed, AC, and an extra attack per round equal to your caster level.

You can also save your own butt and take Greater Mage Armor and switch out your 1st level mage armor for a different spell.

[HighWater]

If you don't want to risk being thwarted by will saves, Haste makes a nice alternative to slow. Speeding up your companions will give the added benefit that they will feel they are contributing more, rather than that the enemy sucks more... :smallsmile:

Depending on the kind of creatures/encounters you usually run into, Stinking Cloud can really mess things up: Area effect that inflicts the terrible "Nauseated" condition every round, while also having the rider effect of breaking line of sight... Pick off enemies one by one as they stagger out of the cloud, reliving their last breakfast...

[TalonOfAnathrax]

May I suggest Shrink Item? It's a fantastic spell, useful in many circumstances both in combat and out of it, and it lasts for ages if needed.

[kweek]

Awesome, thanks people! Great link. I really like Haste as a first pick, sweet choice to help the whole crew kick ass.

[Mordaedil]

Alternatively, consider Sound Lance for single target high damage, that doesn't allow reflex saves, ergo avoids the problem of evasion.

Or Shatterfloor, dealing damage and turning areas into difficult terrain.

Maybe not the greatest picks, but they were what I was considering for my Sonic Sorcerer.

[ericgrau]

First time sorcerer coming up on Level 6. I've been thinking about Dispel Magic for my first 3rd level spell. Is there something better you would start with? What are some recommended favorite first choices?

Never pick utility for your first high level spell. 3rd choice maybe. Pick something you can use again and again in combat. Especially for your all important 3rd level spells. Most monsters won't even have something you can dispel, let alone something you want to dispel, let alone succeed on dispelling. Likewise other utilities and buffs. Maybe later.

Good core choices: sleet storm, maybe stinking cloud, fireball, haste.

Stinking cloud depends how many immune foes you are fighting since you don't have a backup 3rd level spell. Might be better as a 2nd choice if ever. I know fireball might get some hate from these forums but at level 6 it is more than solid. Often it's amazing. At level 10+ maybe less solid due to SR, but an ok secondary choice to keep. Also honorable mention to empowered ray of enfeeblement as a 2nd "3rd level" spell to give you more combat choices. Against individual foes it's better than anything else listed in this post. Mass foes not so much.

Good spell compendium choices: scintillating sphere, maybe mass snake's swiftness.

Scintillating sphere is slightly better than fireball because it's electricity instead of fire. Mass snake's swiftness vs haste depends on your party. Hitting a lot right away is often better than getting more hits later, or vis versa. Also if they're melee it depends how often they are next to a foe when it's your turn (or if you hold your action, etc.).

If you want something besides damage I think the best options are sleet storm, haste or maybe mass snake's swiftness. Sleet storm is my favorite core level 3 spell, but it's limited to outdoors and large rooms. Works best if you have an alternative for smaller rooms like web. It's amazeballs when you can use it. It's like solid fog and grease had a baby that turns giant piles of enemies into a stumbling mess. Slow is nice for multiple foes, but the will negates part is brutal.
100% "negates", not "partial" not "negates; see text" for some other goodies. Just fail. It also requires line of sight to all foes meaning you may not always get so many targets in a dungeon. Together those make it unreliable in practice. I found this out the hard way when I was trying it as an alternative to my favorite spells. Pumped my transmutation save DC and everything.



Alternatively, consider Sound Lance for single target high damage, that doesn't allow reflex saves, ergo avoids the problem of evasion.
You'd be surprised how rare evasion is among monsters. Almost everyone who has it will be an NPC with class levels. High fortitude saves OTOH are very common. Also it's single target, eww.

[Mordaedil]

You'd be surprised how rare evasion is among monsters. Almost everyone who has it will be an NPC with class levels. High fortitude saves OTOH are very common. Also it's single target, eww.

Damage measured in d8's, full caster level to number of dice rolled and sonic type damage, which is very rarely resisted makes it still fairly solid. It doesn't even need a to hit roll, which a lot of similar spells need.

[Vizzerdrix]

Displacement or fly will almost always be handy. Are you using metamagic? Can you target each save?

[kweek]

Displacement or fly will almost always be handy. Are you using metamagic? Can you target each save?

I'll definitely take one of those later; fly probably. Negative on the metamagic. Honestly I know know what you mean my "target each save". If either of those capabilities are outside of the base 3.5 game, then I won't be able to play with em.

[ericgrau]

Damage measured in d8's, full caster level to number of dice rolled and sonic type damage, which is very rarely resisted makes it still fairly solid. It doesn't even need a to hit roll, which a lot of similar spells need.

None of those are advantages... Energy resistance is uncommon, single target d8 can be outpaced with level 2 spells, touch attacks are way better than fort saves, as are reflex saves. Let's say you do face a resistant foe this early by some fluke. Around 8 dmg average to multiple targets vs. 21 dmg to a single target. I'd much rather get an SR no backup damage spell, and only after taking my actually good spells first. Since SR actually is common in a few levels.

Wait, actually, since empowered ray of enfeeblement is so good, just empower magic missile too. Just as much damage as sound lance on average and much more reliable, consistent and less resisted. Great for last hitting. Works on incorporeal too. One of the best backup spells except for the SR issue. Still leaves a 3rd level spell known for something actually decent. Maybe get that acid spell in the distant future if ever. Kweek, consider empower for a 6th level feat if you don't already have something else in mind.


I'll definitely take one of those later; fly probably. Negative on the metamagic. Honestly I know know what you mean my "target each save". If either of those capabilities are outside of the base 3.5 game, then I won't be able to play with em.
He means have a spell for each of fort save, reflex and will to take out them all. However monster "low" saves don't actually tend to be that low and this doesn't need to be a high priority as it doesn't insure auto-success. And no save or save partial stuff is even better. Maybe do it when you get to higher level.

I'd take swift fly (spell compendium) over fly so that you don't have to lose a precious round to casting fly. And it's only 2nd level. It eats up spells per day,but you're a sorcerer and fights are short, especially if you land for cleaning up stragglers. So that's not too bad.

[Elkad]

nth-ing Haste. Even if your party is all blasters and/or non-Pounce chargers, it can be worth it just for the +30' move speed for kiting.