Pathfinder Changelings vs. Eberron Changelings

[Cap'n Gravelock]

Any tips on how to homebrew a race that's a combination of the Pathfinder Changeling and the Eberron Changeling?

I was kinda hoping for a male Pathfinder Changeling but that's just one idea.

[T.G. Oskar]

That'll be a difficult proposal.

You see, PF Changelings are hagspawn - that is, the children of hags. Some may try to oppose their hag mothers, others may choose to embrace them, but all hear the call. Their traits are attuned to those of hags, in specific their magical talent (expressed on their ability scores). Eberron Changelings, on the other hand, are descendants of humans with doppleganger ancestry, in the same way half-elves can be descendants of humans with elven ancestry. A Changeling in Eberron had a steady amount of dopplegangers in their genealogical tree, altering them to gain the signature trait of dopplegangers, which is shapeshifting, albeit to a lesser degree. They also lack the telepathic potential of their forefathers, manifesting in social skills.

To have a combination of both, you need to analyze how to attack it. PF Changelings aren't a race per se, but the child form of an established race (hags). Eberron Changelings are a distinct race, though one based off two races (again, much like half-elves). Even then, you'd need to define which would be the base, and then how to alter it. Each attempt has its own problem.

Suppose, for example, you want the PF Changeling as a base. Fine - -2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, darkvision, claws, +1 NA bonus, and a special trait based on their hag ancestor. Most hags get the ability to use illusions to change their form, and Minor Change Shape is based off Disguise Self, which is a given. Now - notice the Blood-Born Changeling, from the Blood of the Coven splat; it has the social skill traits that an Eberron Changeling has (bonuses to Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive; Eberron Changelings have Intimidate instead of Sense Motive, but the bonuses are the same) Therefore, a hybrid would start as follows: -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, darkvision, claws, +1 NA bonus, +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy/Intimidate and Sense Motive. Those are the base traits of the changeling. Now, an Eberron Changeling doesn't have claws or natural armor, so it removes those, and instead...it might get at-will Disguise Self. However, there's our first problem; Pathfinder is pretty stingy about giving at-will SLAs to most races, other than cantrips. Hag Magic replaces the claws and natural armor for most of those SLAs, but they work them as much as gnomes get their cantrips; Disguise Self happens to be one of those SLAs, but it works only once per day. From there, it's basically an illusion SLA usable once, which is far, far from what an Eberron Changeling can do. That's as close as you can get to an Eberron Changeling using a PF Changeling as a base - from there, you'd probably need a racial feat that gives you more uses of Disguise Self per day, and since Pathfinder loves feat chains, it could be resolved as a feat chain.

IMPROVED HAG MAGIC (RACIAL)
You are capable of tapping deeper into your hag heritage.
Prerequisites: Changeling, Hag Magic class feature
Benefit: You can use each of your spell-like abilities gained from the Hag Magic class feature two additional times per day, for a total of three times per day.
Normal: If you have a Charisma of 11 or higher, you can use your spell-like abilities each once per day.

VEIL OF DECEPTION (RACIAL)
Your hag heritage makes it easier to assume different forms.
Prerequisites: Changeling, able to cast disguise self as a spell or spell-like ability.
Benefit: You gain a +4 racial bonus on Disguise checks.
Furthermore, when you cast disguise self on yourself, the effect lasts until it is dispelled or you choose to dismiss it.
Normal: Disguise self has a duration of 1 minute per caster level.

BECOME THE MASK (RACIAL)
You have a distant ancestor on your human side that had the ability to change forms. Your hag heritage is suitably altered by the presence of this ancestor.
Prerequisites: Changeling, Improved Hag Magic, Veil of Deception
Benefit: You gain the shapeshifter subtype.
When you cast disguise self on yourself, your body undergoes an actual minor physical alteration. You can change your facial features, skin color and texture, and actual size, within the limits described for the spell. True seeing or a similar effect still reveals your natural form. While under the effect of a disguise self cast by yourself, you can change your form as if you had cast the spell again, without expending a spell slot or a daily use of your spell-like abilities. When using this ability to create a disguise, you gain a +10 circumstance bonus to Disguise checks.
Furthermore, your racial bonus on Disguise checks increases to +8.
Normal: Disguise self is an illusion (glamer) spell. If a creature interacts with you, it can make a Will save to disbelieve the spell.

Result: 3 (or more) feats to achieve at-will shapeshifting (to an extent; it can still be dispelled, unlike the Eberron changeling's Minor Change Shape ability), which can be painful depending on which class you're using it (and to what extent).

--

Now, let's do it from the other side: using the Eberron changeling as the base. In this case, you get no ability score increases, Minor Change Shape, Natural Linguist (Sense Motive is ALWAYS a class skill for you),, a +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs. charm and sleep effects. From there, you have to define what you want from the PF changeling: the ability scores? The hag traits? The claws and/or natural armor? Two of these, or all three? From there, you can see the problem - you have to justify all those as doppleganger traits, rather than hag traits.

For starters, the ability scores. The bonus and penalty are there because...well, you're playing someone with hag ancestry. Dopplegangers do have something similar, but they have a bonus to Strength over that of Wisdom or Charisma, AND their Wisdom is actually larger than their Charisma (mostly because they need to be good observers if they want to mimic a creature's traits). Thus, your new changeling would need to have at least a +2 to Strength. From there...you need to figure the proper plus and minus to ability scores (and most likely, Charisma won't be the bonus score; most likely it'll be +2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Wis). Then, the claws and natural armor; are they fine to add without any trouble, or would you need to replace something? None of the other racial traits but Minor Change Shape is worth adding claws, or else you need something to compensate (+1 LA in the case of 3.5, or starting on a later level in the case of PF). You can justify these as doppleganger racial traits. Now, the hag traits...you're basing on a doppleganger, and those don't have many subraces as hags do. So, you're basically either vanilla doppleganger, greater doppleganger or...star doppleganger, maybe? I dunno, but hag traits will have to go off.

Now, you could end up with a racial feat that grants the changeling claws and a +1 to natural armor, or perhaps split it in two (very PF, actually):
DOPPLEGANGER CLAWS (RACIAL)
Your doppleganger ancestry manifests in the form of sharp claws.
Prerequisites: Changeling
Benefit: You grow a pair of claws that deal 1d4 points of slashing damage as a primary natural attack. You can use them as part of a full attack, either making two claw attacks at your full base attack bonus or, if armed, one claw attack at a -5 penalty in addition to your regular weapon attacks.

DOPPLEGANGER FLESH (RACIAL)
Your doppleganger heritage manifests in the form of a tougher, leathery skin that grants you protection against attacks.
Prerequisites: Changeling
Benefits: You gain a +1 to your natural armor bonus. This bonus to natural armor does not stack with other bonuses to natural armor, except for enhancement bonuses to natural armor (such as the bonus from the barkskin spell or an amulet of natural armor.


This will end up with a changeling that's a decent hybrid, very doppleganger-focused, but not flexible. On the other hand, it can be any gender you want. Again, though, you'll have to spend some feat choices, which can be painful.

--

As you can see, the most natural way to do it, other than just disregarding balance and just mix-and-match whatever you like, doesn't let to a very reasonable 'brew. You'll have to focus on which monstrous humanoid you're claiming as a parent, and then compensate with feats to achieve a real hybrid, and still make it relatively balanced for actual play.

[Cap'n Gravelock]

That'll be a difficult proposal.

You see, PF Changelings are hagspawn - that is, the children of hags. Some may try to oppose their hag mothers, others may choose to embrace them, but all hear the call. Their traits are attuned to those of hags, in specific their magical talent (expressed on their ability scores). Eberron Changelings, on the other hand, are descendants of humans with doppleganger ancestry, in the same way half-elves can be descendants of humans with elven ancestry. A Changeling in Eberron had a steady amount of dopplegangers in their genealogical tree, altering them to gain the signature trait of dopplegangers, which is shapeshifting, albeit to a lesser degree. They also lack the telepathic potential of their forefathers, manifesting in social skills.

To have a combination of both, you need to analyze how to attack it. PF Changelings aren't a race per se, but the child form of an established race (hags). Eberron Changelings are a distinct race, though one based off two races (again, much like half-elves). Even then, you'd need to define which would be the base, and then how to alter it. Each attempt has its own problem.

Suppose, for example, you want the PF Changeling as a base. Fine - -2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, darkvision, claws, +1 NA bonus, and a special trait based on their hag ancestor. Most hags get the ability to use illusions to change their form, and Minor Change Shape is based off Disguise Self, which is a given. Now - notice the Blood-Born Changeling, from the Blood of the Coven splat; it has the social skill traits that an Eberron Changeling has (bonuses to Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive; Eberron Changelings have Intimidate instead of Sense Motive, but the bonuses are the same) Therefore, a hybrid would start as follows: -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, darkvision, claws, +1 NA bonus, +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy/Intimidate and Sense Motive. Those are the base traits of the changeling. Now, an Eberron Changeling doesn't have claws or natural armor, so it removes those, and instead...it might get at-will Disguise Self. However, there's our first problem; Pathfinder is pretty stingy about giving at-will SLAs to most races, other than cantrips. Hag Magic replaces the claws and natural armor for most of those SLAs, but they work them as much as gnomes get their cantrips; Disguise Self happens to be one of those SLAs, but it works only once per day. From there, it's basically an illusion SLA usable once, which is far, far from what an Eberron Changeling can do. That's as close as you can get to an Eberron Changeling using a PF Changeling as a base - from there, you'd probably need a racial feat that gives you more uses of Disguise Self per day, and since Pathfinder loves feat chains, it could be resolved as a feat chain.

IMPROVED HAG MAGIC (RACIAL)
You are capable of tapping deeper into your hag heritage.
Prerequisites: Changeling, Hag Magic class feature
Benefit: You can use each of your spell-like abilities gained from the Hag Magic class feature two additional times per day, for a total of three times per day.
Normal: If you have a Charisma of 11 or higher, you can use your spell-like abilities each once per day.

VEIL OF DECEPTION (RACIAL)
Your hag heritage makes it easier to assume different forms.
Prerequisites: Changeling, able to cast disguise self as a spell or spell-like ability.
Benefit: You gain a +4 racial bonus on Disguise checks.
Furthermore, when you cast disguise self on yourself, the effect lasts until it is dispelled or you choose to dismiss it.
Normal: Disguise self has a duration of 1 minute per caster level.

BECOME THE MASK (RACIAL)
You have a distant ancestor on your human side that had the ability to change forms. Your hag heritage is suitably altered by the presence of this ancestor.
Prerequisites: Changeling, Improved Hag Magic, Veil of Deception
Benefit: You gain the shapeshifter subtype.
When you cast disguise self on yourself, your body undergoes an actual minor physical alteration. You can change your facial features, skin color and texture, and actual size, within the limits described for the spell. True seeing or a similar effect still reveals your natural form. While under the effect of a disguise self cast by yourself, you can change your form as if you had cast the spell again, without expending a spell slot or a daily use of your spell-like abilities. When using this ability to create a disguise, you gain a +10 circumstance bonus to Disguise checks.
Furthermore, your racial bonus on Disguise checks increases to +8.
Normal: Disguise self is an illusion (glamer) spell. If a creature interacts with you, it can make a Will save to disbelieve the spell.

Result: 3 (or more) feats to achieve at-will shapeshifting (to an extent; it can still be dispelled, unlike the Eberron changeling's Minor Change Shape ability), which can be painful depending on which class you're using it (and to what extent).

--

Now, let's do it from the other side: using the Eberron changeling as the base. In this case, you get no ability score increases, Minor Change Shape, Natural Linguist (Sense Motive is ALWAYS a class skill for you),, a +2 racial bonus to Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws vs. charm and sleep effects. From there, you have to define what you want from the PF changeling: the ability scores? The hag traits? The claws and/or natural armor? Two of these, or all three? From there, you can see the problem - you have to justify all those as doppleganger traits, rather than hag traits.

For starters, the ability scores. The bonus and penalty are there because...well, you're playing someone with hag ancestry. Dopplegangers do have something similar, but they have a bonus to Strength over that of Wisdom or Charisma, AND their Wisdom is actually larger than their Charisma (mostly because they need to be good observers if they want to mimic a creature's traits). Thus, your new changeling would need to have at least a +2 to Strength. From there...you need to figure the proper plus and minus to ability scores (and most likely, Charisma won't be the bonus score; most likely it'll be +2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Wis). Then, the claws and natural armor; are they fine to add without any trouble, or would you need to replace something? None of the other racial traits but Minor Change Shape is worth adding claws, or else you need something to compensate (+1 LA in the case of 3.5, or starting on a later level in the case of PF). You can justify these as doppleganger racial traits. Now, the hag traits...you're basing on a doppleganger, and those don't have many subraces as hags do. So, you're basically either vanilla doppleganger, greater doppleganger or...star doppleganger, maybe? I dunno, but hag traits will have to go off.

Now, you could end up with a racial feat that grants the changeling claws and a +1 to natural armor, or perhaps split it in two (very PF, actually):
DOPPLEGANGER CLAWS (RACIAL)
Your doppleganger ancestry manifests in the form of sharp claws.
Prerequisites: Changeling
Benefit: You grow a pair of claws that deal 1d4 points of slashing damage as a primary natural attack. You can use them as part of a full attack, either making two claw attacks at your full base attack bonus or, if armed, one claw attack at a -5 penalty in addition to your regular weapon attacks.

DOPPLEGANGER FLESH (RACIAL)
Your doppleganger heritage manifests in the form of a tougher, leathery skin that grants you protection against attacks.
Prerequisites: Changeling
Benefits: You gain a +1 to your natural armor bonus. This bonus to natural armor does not stack with other bonuses to natural armor, except for enhancement bonuses to natural armor (such as the bonus from the barkskin spell or an amulet of natural armor.


This will end up with a changeling that's a decent hybrid, very doppleganger-focused, but not flexible. On the other hand, it can be any gender you want. Again, though, you'll have to spend some feat choices, which can be painful.

--

As you can see, the most natural way to do it, other than just disregarding balance and just mix-and-match whatever you like, doesn't let to a very reasonable 'brew. You'll have to focus on which monstrous humanoid you're claiming as a parent, and then compensate with feats to achieve a real hybrid, and still make it relatively balanced for actual play.

What about a completely different "changeling" that's a child of fey instead.

I have "Fey Revisited" and I was thinking of using that to create a sort of hybrid race with them.

Could that work?

[Nifft]

What about a completely different "changeling" that's a child of fey instead.

I have "Fey Revisited" and I was thinking of using that to create a sort of hybrid race with them.

Could that work?

Purely as a matter of communication, I'd recommend not re-using a well-established race name for a new race.