What's your experience with playing an ahead-of-the-curve casting Kobold Sorcerer?

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

What's your experience with playing an ahead-of-the-curve casting Kobold Sorcerer? To clarify, I don't mean Pun-Pun or something with (nearly) infinite X due to loop use. Instead, I mean a Kobold Sorcerer with the template White Dragonspawn (possibly with its level adjustment bought off) or/and Dragonwrought with the Loredrake Sovereign Archetype. (Let's assume this Loredrake trick works for this thread.) I also assume that the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage for +1 Sorcerer base caster level is available and used if the character reaches 6+ HD.

What was your build (spells, feats, PrCs, items, etc.)? Who else (players, minions etc.) was in your party? What was your adventure like? What were the lows and highs? What did your fellow players (including your GM) think of this character? What other comments have you regarding this experience?

I ask because this build has been mentioned so many times online and I wanted player experiences to better understand its balance/power level and otherwise what to expect.

Thankee!

[Fouredged Sword]

The insanity build is venerable spellhoarding loredrake kobold sorcerer with the greater right for an extra +1 spellcaster level.

Casts as a wizard +3, with +3 int/wis/cha and easy access to +5 inherent bonuses to all stats plus all magic items in the game more or less at 900gp a piece.

It be crazy and would never fly on any table. The ability to pay 900gp to scribe what can essentially be any 9th level spell into your spellbook and use your spellbook as scrolls is insanity. Scribe wish 30 times for 900gp a pop, have +5 to all ability scores. Get a +6 item for each stat. Get all your gear by 6th level or so.

It plays exactly like any other generic wizard build, but with actually unlimited wealth (wish for money to scribe your scales and wish again).

Absurdity. Played straight it breaks the game almost instantly. Played without unlimited wishes you play like a wizard 3 levels higher, meaning 1.5 spell levels higher than the game expects. You roflestomp encounters and whole adventures.

[Nifft]

Greetings, all!

What's your experience with playing an ahead-of-the-curve casting Kobold Sorcerer? To clarify, I don't mean Pun-Pun or something with (nearly) infinite X due to loop use. Instead, I mean a Kobold Sorcerer with the template White Dragonspawn (possibly with its level adjustment bought off) or/and Dragonwrought with the Loredrake Sovereign Archetype. (Let's assume this Loredrake trick works for this thread.) Never seen White Dragonspawn in actual play.

Never seen Loredrake on a Dragonwrought in actual play.



I also assume that the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage for +1 Sorcerer base caster level is available and used if the character reaches 6+ HD. I have seen this in actual play, on a Dragonwrought Kobold.

It was fine, to the point that I now think the 1-level delay in spell acquisition for Sorcerers was a mistake.

[Troacctid]

I think making Sovereign Archetypes available to Sorcerer (and Favored Soul) PCs would actually result in interesting gameplay with more build diversity. Even Loredrake seems reasonable if you drop it down to a +1 instead of +2 (and probably make it not stack with the Greater Draconic Rite). It's something I've been tempted to implement as a houserule for an Eberron game ever since I first read Dragons of Eberron. Of course there's no reason why it would have to be limited to kobolds—the fluff works fine for any worshipper of the Sovereign Host or Dark Six, IMO.

I do think you need to nerf Loredrake for PC use, though, for diversity's sake, because it feels like it overpowers the other archetypes if you don't. It's balanced for NPC dragons whose casting is well below their effective level to begin with. For a PC, if you don't knock it down to +1 or something, it just ends up being the obvious strongest choice of the bunch for most builds, and that's not fun.

[Fouredged Sword]

Honestly I would love to see sorcerers turned into a sort of middle between wizards and everyone else.

I would think the reduced training required would free them to be more balanced. Say, 3/4th bab, 6 skill points per level, and maybe a d8 HD, and some standard martial profs like longswords and shortbows. Basically a more generic magical adventurer

Loredrake would be balanced if it was a sorcerer ACF that dropped the HD to d6 and the bab back to 1/2.

[Luccan]

Honestly I would love to see sorcerers turned into a sort of middle between wizards and everyone else.

I would think the reduced training required would free them to be more balanced. Say, 3/4th bab, 6 skill points per level, and maybe a d8 HD, and some standard martial profs like longswords and shortbows. Basically a more generic magical adventurer

Loredrake would be balanced if it was a sorcerer ACF that dropped the HD to d6 and the bab back to 1/2.

With the exception of the Skill Points, isn't that the Battle Sorcerer ACF?

[Fouredged Sword]

With the exception of the Skill Points, isn't that the Battle Sorcerer ACF?

Yes, without light armor casting and without the spells know or per day penalty.

It is still significantly less optimised than wizard.

[Fouredged Sword]

what is so good about spellhoarding? why not a much more powerful template like paragon creature?

Spellhoarding turns sorcerer casting into wizard casting and allows you to use your spellscales (basically your spellbook) as scrolls at stupidly discounted price compared to a high level scroll.

This leads to unlimited wishes more or less.