UA Samurai is...

[Aleister VII]

I initially thought that a samurai archetype for the fighter would be awesome but it just don't make the cut if you ask me.

The exchange advantage for an extra attack is good but it comes too late as well as the strength before dead thing, it can save your life when in a pinch but then again you should want something that you can use in most situation instead of a last resort... well at least you can dish some damage before dying OR kill the enemy before it kills you.

The main ability is great, resistance against physical stuffs and free advantage sounds solid BUT compare it to the many control and tactical options of the battle master OR the versatility that has an EK with his spells and it didn't sound that great anymore.

The social skill that helps you in etiquette is too situational or campaign dependant to say the least.

Overall it seems a little more interesting than a champion but pales in comparison to a BM and a EK.

Or did I miss something?

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Or did I miss something?


The updated version of the Samurai in Xanathar's, perhaps?

[Aleister VII]

The updated version of the Samurai in Xanathar's, perhaps?

I don't own xanathar yet x.x

[Grod_The_Giant]

I don't own xanathar yet x.x
It's still a bit mixed. You get a bonus proficiency at 3rd, Elegant courier and Unbreakable Will are combined into a slightly better version at 7th, and you get an extra Fighting Spirit use every time you roll initiative at 10th, but Fighting Spirit gets cut down significantly--it provides a bit of temp HP instead of resistance, and is dropped to being 3/LONG rest. If you use the Xanathar's version but keep the UA's version of Fighting Spirit, tho, you might have something decent. (Especially for Sharpshooters/GWMs)

[Tanarii]

... unnecessary. The PHB Battlemaster is a Samurai. They just renamed it to keep it generically non-eastern.

[djreynolds]

... unnecessary. The PHB Battlemaster is a Samurai. They just renamed it to keep it generically non-eastern.

100%, calling stuff samurai or cavalier, is limiting. My samurai was simply a barbarian who fluffed rage into ki o chi, and you had bushido instead of a totem

ancestor could be a cool samurai feel now

[Daphne]

I can't comprehend how they thought Fighting Spirit needed a nerf.

[Boci]

It's still a bit mixed. You get a bonus proficiency at 3rd, Elegant courier and Unbreakable Will are combined into a slightly better version at 7th, and you get an extra Fighting Spirit use every time you roll initiative at 10th, but Fighting Spirit gets cut down significantly--it provides a bit of temp HP instead of resistance, and is dropped to being 3/LONG rest. If you use the Xanathar's version but keep the UA's version of Fighting Spirit, tho, you might have something decent. (Especially for Sharpshooters/GWMs)

Also you get advantage on attack until the end of your turn, where as the UA one gave it until the end of your next turn. It basically meant auto advantage on all attacks, assuming you could reliable short rest between encounters.

[ProseBeforeHos]

... unnecessary. The PHB Battlemaster is a Samurai. They just renamed it to keep it generically non-eastern.

I agree with this, Battlemaster makes a fine "samurai", and you won't find it lacking.

Sadly XGTE Samurai is arguably weaker than the UA version.

[Boci]

I agree with this, Battlemaster makes a fine "samurai", and you won't find it lacking.

Court and dealing with nobles is a fairly important, if often overlooked, aspect the noble warrior, be they western knights or eastern samurai. So depending on how "true" you want your samurai to be, you might find the BM lacking for a samurai.

[Luccan]

100%, calling stuff samurai or cavalier, is limiting.


Really, I think they just don't have enough ideas for names. Any rogue (or non-rogue) could be an Assassin, but there's still an archetype called Assassin for rogues. If they pump out enough archetypes, I am fully prepared for the Ninja archetype for either rogues or monks(even though we already have the aforementioned Assassin and also Shadow Monks).

[Legendairy]

Court and dealing with nobles is a fairly important, if often overlooked, aspect the noble warrior, be they western knights or eastern samurai. So depending on how "true" you want your samurai to be, you might find the BM lacking for a samurai.

Sooo, backgrounds that give you the appropriate skills? Paladins can feel samurai ish, swords bard for a philosophical samurai.

[Boci]

Sooo, backgrounds that give you the appropriate skills? Paladins can feel samurai ish, swords bard for a philosophical samurai.

That works yeah. The samurai archetype seemed to be one of wisdom based, but still good at social stuff (from level 7 at least), but regular cha + proficiency should work for most.

[Foxhound438]

Sooo, backgrounds that give you the appropriate skills? Paladins can feel samurai ish, swords bard for a philosophical samurai.

Most definitely for the paladin, particularly in the case of oath of the crown.

Not that that's a super great archetype mechanically, but it's on flavor and you get spirit guardians

[Tanarii]

100%, calling stuff samurai or cavalier, is limiting. My samurai was simply a barbarian who fluffed rage into ki o chi, and you had bushido instead of a totemFor sure, but I didn't mean the class names are the thing. I meant more like ...


I agree with this, Battlemaster makes a fine "samurai", and you won't find it lacking.
Right. I think the Battlemaster is the best class for a "classic" Samurai, at least the way I envision them. Probably with a Noble background. The special tricks (and in some cases minor leadership abilities) of the Manuevers matches what I think of when I think samurai. But really it's the Student of War feature that sealed the deal for me. Every time I see that ability I think Calligrapher's Tools. :smallbiggrin:

Just as a Shadowmonk makes a fine mystical Ninja, with the magical shadow powers. Although it took me a while to wrap my head around this. Despite playing AD&D 1e Oriental Adventures for a few years as a kid, I still think of Ninjas as more like 5e Assassins. Clearly I didn't watch enough of those 80s movies with mystic shadow ninjas in them. :smallwink:

[Kaliayev]

I've been toying with a samurai/mystic concept. It can be quite powerful, though that also applies to a number of mystic/x blends.

[Aleister VII]

Yeah BM maneuvers and calligraphers tools has a lot of samurai feeling and a little refluff can seal the deal, not to mention that's quite functional in most situations/battles.

But even so both UA and Xanathar "samurais" let me down u.u I was expecting something like a sheath and unsheath katana mechanic or some "stances" that gives you reactions or maybe a monk like thing to give your longsword (katana) the finesse property.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I think it suffers from not being battlemaster like most fighter archetypes. I find that Battlemaster itself is one of the best classes and any non magical fighter will be immediately compared to its near perfection.


I still like the Samurai tho, but i like most things in 5e regardless on whether or not they be good or balanced.

[Arvin Natsuko]

Yeah BM maneuvers and calligraphers tools has a lot of samurai feeling and a little refluff can seal the deal, not to mention that's quite functional in most situations/battles.

But even so both UA and Xanathar "samurais" let me down u.u I was expecting something like a sheath and unsheath katana mechanic or some "stances" that gives you reactions or maybe a monk like thing to give your longsword (katana) the finesse property.

For the "unarmored longsword user samurai" feel, you have the Xanathar's Kensei. It's a Monk subclass that uses weapons. Can be a Katana (longsword).

[GlenSmash!]

XGtE Samuria works for a generic fighter, but there is not much that screams "Samurai" about it.


Court and dealing with nobles is a fairly important, if often overlooked, aspect the noble warrior, be they western knights or eastern samurai. So depending on how "true" you want your samurai to be, you might find the BM lacking for a samurai.

Banneret picks up some courtly stuff I believe, but not much else.

I'd still stick with a Battlemaster for my Samurai, and pick up courtly manners from a background.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Part of the problem is that "samurai" doesn't really suggest any unique abilities. Wears medium-ish armor, uses a couple common martial weapons, has a strong will and a sense of honor. That's basically any Fighter.

[GlenSmash!]

Part of the problem is that "samurai" doesn't really suggest any unique abilities. Wears medium-ish armor, uses a couple common martial weapons, has a strong will and a sense of honor. That's basically any Fighter.

I've played a few Barbarians that would fit that bill too.

[Boci]

Part of the problem is that "samurai" doesn't really suggest any unique abilities. Wears medium-ish armor, uses a couple common martial weapons, has a strong will and a sense of honor. That's basically any Fighter.

As I mentioned, traditionally it would be "Wears medium-ish armor, uses a couple common martial weapons, has a strong will and a sense of honor and can handle court intrigue", which the samurai archetype does by giving them wisdom to social checks in a courtly enviroment. A regular fighter would need to choose between wisdom and charisma. Still, I agree its a very small thing to base an archetype on.

[djreynolds]

Really, I think they just don't have enough ideas for names. Any rogue (or non-rogue) could be an Assassin, but there's still an archetype called Assassin for rogues. If they pump out enough archetypes, I am fully prepared for the Ninja archetype for either rogues or monks(even though we already have the aforementioned Assassin and also Shadow Monks).

I here you, but samurai isn't just like abilities, but a huge way of life, that may or may not work in the classical campaign setting

And the term of samurai is just so strong, to stick it on a fighter or any class just limits.... us.

I have players, ninjas, who are warlock and some are thieves and some are monks.

But I do agree, there are only so many classical warrior types out there, we are bound to see even Greek or Roman or Native American archtypes or Norse types soon.

Which is why I just rather a campaign setting tailored to each.

[MeeposFire]

Having a fighter type samurai is a classic D&D tradition that was going to be filled at some point. At least this time they did not make it its own class. Nothing says you cannot make a samurai for other class's as well and have it show off other classic abilities and they could do so. Same can be said of other ideas like scout which I can see for say the ranger class and not just the rogue or how about the monster hunter?

As for the abilities in this samurai they are somewhat reminiscent of the oldest samurai D&D ideas (the kai shout from 1e used to give 18/00 str and I think the advantage aspect from fighting spirit fits somewhat).

I do not think the samurai is bad but it certainly does not have a singular potent ability like the battlemaster does with its maneuvers.

[Tanarii]

I do not think the samurai is bad but it certainly does not have a singular potent ability like the battlemaster does with its maneuvers.
No fighter will. The BM is powerful. At the minimum, it is too front loaded.

[GlenSmash!]

No fighter will. The BM is powerful. At the minimum, it is too front loaded.

I would say that spellcasting feels like a singular and potent ability on an EK even if you just use it to spam Shield.

I do think BM is too front-loaded though.

[Asmotherion]

Honestly enough, even in Xanathar's it's underwealming.

If I want to make a Samurai, I'd make a Fighter with Magic Initiate for Scag Cantrips and a couple Rogue Levels for Skills and mobility. Perhaps go into Swashbuckler for Charisma skills, and call it a day.

Or a Kensai Monk.

Or Crown Paladin.

A lot of things can fit the Samurai trope I think. Overall "Samurai" feels more like a Backround than a Class Archetype in my perspective. Likely a Variant Noble.

[Chaosmancer]

I can't comprehend how they thought Fighting Spirit needed a nerf.

Yeah, I'm still stumped on that. It's such a massive nerf to their abilities and I can't figure the reason for it.

Best anyone has been able to tell me, the only good reasoning was resistance stepped too much on the barbarian... But I didn't feel like a barbarian while playing my UA samurai half-orc. Only potentially OP thing about him was stacking that resistance with Heavy Armor Mastery, and even that wasn't that good compared to my current Ancestral Spirit Barbarian, so I'm content with just bashing the two versions together and calling it a day.