Grapple number discrepancy, SRD

[kahlzun]

Hi all!

I'm compiling a list of monsters from the Summon Monster table, and i stumbled across a few discrepancies between my calculated figures and the RAW values quoted. I'm just checking, firstly if i've made any dumb mistakes, and secondly if there is any known errata or amendments to either explain or correct these?

I have found 3 monsters across the 148 on the SM list with a discrepancy:

Fiendish Small Monstrous Scorpion:

This Summon level 1 vermin has a STR of 9 (-1) and a BAB of 0, and is small (-4).
0-4+0-1=-5. (BASE+Size+BAB+Str)
RAW has it showing as -4 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousScorpion.htm).

Fiendish Octopus:

Again, this appears in the first Summon Monster table. It has a STR of 12 (1), a BAB of 1, and is again small (-4).
0-4+1+1=-2 (BASE+Size+BAB+Str)
RAW has it showing as +2 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/octopus.htm).

Now, i thought this might be a racial bonus (similar to what the squid gets) but the Giant Octopus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/octopusGiant.htm) (which would be covered under the same bonus) calculates correctly without the same discrepancy.

Finally, the third issue is with the Barbed Devil.

This level 9 Summon monster has a STR of 23(+6), a BAB of 12, and is Medium.(+0)
0+0+12+6=18 (BASE+Size+BAB+Str)
RAW has it showing as +22 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm).
I spotted the Improved Grapple in the Barbed Devils stat thing. Unlike Improved Grab, it grants the missing +4 bonus.

Thanks for any help.
Sam

[hamishspence]

Odd. Perhaps there's a rule in force that creatures with Weapon Finesse get to use Dexterity instead of Strength in grapples? Might that make the numbers match for the scorpion and the octopus?

It does say a grapple check is like a melee attack roll.

It fixes the Scorpion at least - but the Octopus's Grapple is still rather high.

[kahlzun]

I thought of that, but a number of other creatures from the list who have WF and would benefit from it don't seem to be affected. Example:

Fiendish Medium Monstrous Centipede. Another level 1 critter.

It has a STR of 9(-1), a DEX of 15 (+2), a BAB of 0 and is Medium (0).
The Grapple listed in the SRD is -1.

If WF applied, it would work out as 0+2+0+0=2. Without WF we get 0-1+0+0=-1, which matches the RAW result.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm

[hamishspence]

It could just be that the error was in the MM and the SRD didn't fix all errors.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's a known fact that monster stat blocks are not 100% accurate. Making sure that the stats were all correct is honestly less important than making sure the rules are right and easily understandable, and we have to assume that some monster stats were being written before all the rules were finalized (because you need to have monsters to test a game about fighting monsters) and it's possible that not every correction was applied. So while it's certainly worth asking if there's a factor that you're not aware of, sometimes the answer is just that the stat block is wrong.

[EndocrineBandit]

I think the octopus gets a bonus for multiple limbs, actually. I think it's +2 for every extra pair of arms iirc.. but i don't at all recall a source for that. Savage species maybe?

[Tibalt]

Monstrous Scorpion:


Improved Grab (Ex)
To use this ability, a monstrous scorpion must hit with a claw attack. A monstrous scorpion can use either its Strength modifier or Dexterity modifier for grapple checks, whichever is better.

0 (BAB) + 0 (dex mod) - 4 (size) = -4

[SirNibbles]

I think the octopus gets a bonus for multiple limbs, actually. I think it's +2 for every extra pair of arms iirc.. but i don't at all recall a source for that. Savage species maybe?

Sword and Fist, page 62: the rule is +4 per extra set of limbs

"At the Dungeon Master’s option, creatures with more than two arms can get a bonus to grappling checks when they wrestle an opponent with their arms. (The bonus would not apply, for example, to a marilith’s constrict attack.) This bonus is +4 per extra pair of arms—so a marilith would get +8 (in addition to its size modifier), while a xill or a mutant sahuagin would gain a +4 bonus."