assistance with "ultimate" support build

[danpit2991]

Greetings,

i am starting a new(to me) game there are 6 players i will be number 7 the others are 5th level and i want to make an ultimate support character, there is a dwarf cleric,half orc fighter, human pally, half elf rogue,half elf wizard and a tiefling sorcerer.


i am a changeling we are using point buy so my array is 15, 15, 14, 9, 9, 8 , i can change it if i need to

ST 9
DEX 16
Con 14
INT 9
WIS 8
CHA 16

i plan on playing him as a nice and helpful if somewhat gullible guy that everyone seems to like for some reason so alignment is CG

as far as class i am thinking sorlock or sorc bard or bardlock im leaning towards bardlock lore/tome any ideas would be super

my goal is to be the "expert" in nothing but "good" at most everything so to me that means ok heals ok control ok blasting ect.

[sophontteks]

Do you want to be the ultimate support or a jack of all trades?
They are a bit mutually exclusive IMO.
If you want to be an ultimate support I'd ditch the warlock levels and just go straight bard or wizard. If your stats are set I'd be a straight bard.

I think Glamour wins ultimate support as he can reposition the team and grant them all temp hp. With the team repositioned you can cast AOE CC spells without collateral.

[danpit2991]

.

more of a jack of all trades i guess i want to be competent in combat thats why i think warlock dip would be great for the antagonizing EB and the mage armor no more that a 3 dip though

im looking to have as many tools in my box as i can so in any situation i can be relevant since it is a large party with all of the main "roles" already filled thats why im leaning bardlock although a case can be made for straight bard, also i havent done a bard in years and years

so im thinking that since im starting at 5th 2 lock 3 bard or maybe just 5 bard with arcane initiate idk thats why im asking for assistance because other than sorlock i dont know how the others do in play

[sophontteks]

more of a jack of all trades i guess i want to be competent in combat thats why i think warlock dip would be great for the antagonizing EB and the mage armor no more that a 3 dip though

im looking to have as many tools in my box as i can so in any situation i can be relevant since it is a large party with all of the main "roles" already filled thats why im leaning bardlock although a case can be made for straight bard, also i havent done a bard in years and years
Well bards have changed a lot. They are full casters now, especially talented with illusions and enchantments. Strong case can be made that the lore one's are the best casters in the game since they can steal spells from other classes. But with Lore and glamour you'd probably be attacking with a 1d4 cantrip when your not casting. Its actually pretty good because it gives disadvantage, but its very much a support cantrip.

3 levels in warlock will give you a solid single-target DPS option, but it'll hurt early on since your setting back ASIs, spell slots/levels, and class abilities. Mage armor is only +1 AC because you have studded leather. There are probably better invocations to take. The setback will even out past level 10, so probably good to consider what level your party plans to get to. Prior to that I think you'd be more of a blaster then a support.

With such a large party I wouldn't think a single target DPS would be very important, not as important as battlefield control. But its not like I know your party or your DM. And I don't have any experience with large groups like that either.

[danpit2991]

Well bards have changed a lot. They are full casters now, especially talented with illusions and enchantments. Strong case can be made that the lore one's are the best casters in the game since they can steal spells from other classes. But with Lore and glamour you'd probably be attacking with a 1d4 cantrip when your not casting. Its actually pretty good because it gives disadvantage, but its very much a support cantrip.

3 levels in warlock will give you a solid single-target DPS option, but it'll hurt early on since your setting back ASIs, spell slots/levels, and class abilities. Mage armor is only +1 AC because you have studded leather. There are probably better invocations to take. The setback will even out past level 10, so probably good to consider what level your party plans to get to. Prior to that I think you'd be more of a blaster then a support.

With such a large party I wouldn't think a single target DPS would be very important, not as important as battlefield control. But its not like I know your party or your DM. And I don't have any experience with large groups like that either.

i have played with this DM before and his games are 25/75 combat/other so i want 1 good combat option like EB and the rest to be mostly utility/ usefull things like i said not worried about being the primary i just want to be relevant in most if not all situations after hitting the book again maybe straight lore bard with arcane initiate warlock would suit my concept the best

i mean for combat i would have EB goodness for 90% of situations and could use magic secrets at 6th to take a scaleable damage spell like fire ball,lightning bolt

for support the bard list is pretty good for that it seems

for social well i am a high CHA changeling bard

for exploration there seem to be less native spells for that but magic secrets could help there

[danpit2991]

so as of now what i have is a level 5 changeling lore bard

taking arcane initiate for EB prestidigitation and hex

so my spell list is

EB
presdigitation
dancing lights
friends
minor illusion


healing word
faerie fire
tashas laughter

enthrall
heat metal
detect thoughts

tounges
major image


any thoughts?

[sophontteks]

so as of now what i have is a level 5 changeling lore bard

taking arcane initiate for EB prestidigitation and hex

so my spell list is

EB
presdigitation
dancing lights
friends
minor illusion


healing word
faerie fire
tashas laughter

enthrall
heat metal
detect thoughts

tounges
major image


any thoughts?
Level 1- dissonate whispers is another strong contender. You have many party members and the creature moves using its own reaction, provoking AOEs. But your current choices are also strong.
Level 2- Enthrall is essentially useless. It doesn't charm the creatures or in any way prevent them from being hostile. Simply performing should work just as well. Suggestion, enhance ability, shatter, or phantasmal force are all strong alternatives.
Level 3- Fear or Hypnotic pattern. These are super powerful AOE spells that can trivialize an encounter. Major image is nice, but silent image + minor image does the same thing (takes 2 actions) with smaller spells slots.

Overall you are short on AOE spells. Shatter, fear, hypnotic pattern. I would have at least one. I'd also definitely take either suggestion or Phantasmal force. They are great ways to manipulate NPCs in and out of combat.

[Malifice]

Greetings,

i am starting a new(to me) game there are 6 players i will be number 7 the others are 5th level and i want to make an ultimate support character, there is a dwarf cleric,half orc fighter, human pally, half elf rogue,half elf wizard and a tiefling sorcerer.


i am a changeling we are using point buy so my array is 15, 15, 14, 9, 9, 8 , i can change it if i need to

ST 9
DEX 16
Con 14
INT 9
WIS 8
CHA 16

i plan on playing him as a nice and helpful if somewhat gullible guy that everyone seems to like for some reason so alignment is CG

as far as class i am thinking sorlock or sorc bard or bardlock im leaning towards bardlock lore/tome any ideas would be super

my goal is to be the "expert" in nothing but "good" at most everything so to me that means ok heals ok control ok blasting ect.

This absolutely screams Bard.

Helpful, support based PC that is a Jack of all Trades and master of none.

[samuraijaques]

I'm gonna say bard/sorcerer is going to be pretty amazing especially if you're starting at 5th because you can start the game with some pretty decent stuff. Bards and sorcerers get some of the best buffs in the game and twinning them can be game breaking. Especially in a party with good targets for things like greater invisibility and haste. How much you do of each is mostly just personal preference.

[Citan]

Greetings,

i am starting a new(to me) game there are 6 players i will be number 7 the others are 5th level and i want to make an ultimate support character, there is a dwarf cleric,half orc fighter, human pally, half elf rogue,half elf wizard and a tiefling sorcerer.


i am a changeling we are using point buy so my array is 15, 15, 14, 9, 9, 8 , i can change it if i need to

ST 9
DEX 16
Con 14
INT 9
WIS 8
CHA 16

i plan on playing him as a nice and helpful if somewhat gullible guy that everyone seems to like for some reason so alignment is CG

as far as class i am thinking sorlock or sorc bard or bardlock im leaning towards bardlock lore/tome any ideas would be super

my goal is to be the "expert" in nothing but "good" at most everything so to me that means ok heals ok control ok blasting ect.
Hmm. Considering your party, if you want to stay pure CHA I'd say go mainly Glamour or Lore Bard with a 3-level Sorcerer later for metamagics...

But otherwise I'd strongly suggest a Shepherd Druid: many exclusive spells, built-in versatility (lots of different prepared spells: heal, blast, control, conjure, utility, Wild Shape wonders), Spirit Aura to help your party, and you can mix it up with a bit of Life/Tempest Cleric later if you deem it useful, or plan on a multiclass with Sorcerer for Extended and Subtle metamagics.

[smcmike]

I vote straight Lore Bard, and don’t bother with Eldritch Blast. You are in a huge group, and my experience big groups says that a little extra DPS isn’t important. Your group will be laying out plenty of damage. Vicious Mockery doesn’t pack much punch, but the disadvantage is nice, and you will have better things to do many turns anyways.

Instead of wasting a feat on Magic Initiate, get Inspiring Leader and give the party 56 extra hit points every short rest (at level 5). This is how you play a support character.