Ridiculous triple multiclass

[Dankus Memakus]

Okay for starters I have the stats for all these multiclasses so i dont wanna debate on MADness. I get its MAD but I'm not optimizing I'm just goofing.

Anyway, I thought of an epic damage powerhouse deal. I was playing a barbarian rogue and really digging the rage+sneak attack so I was thinking. Would paladin levels make it fun. Also if they would, what would be the best split levels wise? Should I attempt to get an archetype in all three? (I know I want a rogue archetype because of the assassin auto-crit seems pretty epic.) Should I only take two levels of paladin? I just want some help. It's just a fun little build so like I said I dont care for optimizing, as long as I'm having fun. :) thanks!

[CantigThimble]

You're not going to get much use out of paladin with only 2 spell slots. Without a good number of smites I suspect you'll find the paladin multiclass lackluster, in terms of both fun and power.

[Kyrinthic]

Okay for starters I have the stats for all these multiclasses so i dont wanna debate on MADness. I get its MAD but I'm not optimizing I'm just goofing.

Anyway, I thought of an epic damage powerhouse deal. I was playing a barbarian rogue and really digging the rage+sneak attack so I was thinking. Would paladin levels make it fun. Also if they would, what would be the best split levels wise? Should I attempt to get an archetype in all three? (I know I want a rogue archetype because of the assassin auto-crit seems pretty epic.) Should I only take two levels of paladin? I just want some help. It's just a fun little build so like I said I dont care for optimizing, as long as I'm having fun. :) thanks!

There will be issues with action economy. Rage damage is pretty minor, and only applies to strength based attacks, so not sure it even works with backstab.

That said, some thoughts in no particular order;

3 levels in ranger gets another D8 on a wounded enemy.
2 fighter levels gets you action surge, 3 will get you all kinds of silly options.
Gloomstalker extra attack on turn one is probably more reliable than assassin for most GMs.
Getting to level 5+ on paladin or barbarian for extra attack has value.
Barb doesnt really add much damage after level 3, where rogue backstab and paladin smite grow with levels.

So, Barb3, Ranger3 hunter, Rogue3+gloomstalker, Paladin3+ seems like a good raw damage option for multiclassing.

All that said, often multiclass like that does fun things in single digit levels, it will often feeel weaker than single classes once you start getting to high levels, and the battlemaster is swinging 3 times every round, with d10s to throw where he wants, or the wizard is looking at level 6-9 spells.

[Belier]

1 level barbarian, 2 paladin
17 rogue assassin

You will get one of the most powerfull single blow possible with an auto-crit on first turn.

[JNAProductions]

Eh... Higher level smites work better than Barb 1.

I personally like Rogue 18/Barb 2 for advantage on every melee attack, but with no penalty.

I'd recommend Arcane Trickster Rogue, for the extra caster level, and then a decent amount of Paladin-maybe 6, for Aura of Protection.

[Fredaintdead]

Well, let's look at some options.
Half-Orc Barbarian3/Paladin2/Rogue15
Archetypes: Zealot, Assassin
Weapon of choice: Rapier
A single critical hit can deal (provided by assassinate): 3d8 base damage + 4d8 smite (1st level slot) + 16d6 Sneak Attack + 2d6 Divine Fury
With the following modifiers: + 5 Strength + 3 Magic Weapon + 2 Rage + 1 Divine Fury (The half Barbarian level part isn't multiplied by the crit as it's a modifier)
For a grand total of: 7d8+18d6+11 (Between 36 and 175 damage, for an average of ~106 damage)

Half-Orc Barbarian3/Paladin6/Rogue11
Archetypes: Zealot, Oath of Vengeance, Assassin
Weapon of choice: Rapier
A single critical hit can deal (provided by assassinate): 3d8 base damage + 6d8 smite (2nd level slot) + 12d6 Sneak Attack + 2d6 Divine Fury
With the following modifiers: + 5 Strength + 3 Magic Weapon + 2 Rage + 1 Divine Fury (The half Barbarian level part isn't multiplied by the crit as it's a modifier)
For a grand total of: 9d8+14d6+11 (Between 34 and 167 damage, for an average of ~101 damage)

The second build, while capable of slightly less on an individual swing, does have more staying power on the smites (more slots), extra utility (more Lay on Hands and more spells in general), better defenses (+4hp overall, as well as +Cha Modifier to Saving Throws). It also has the option to make follow up attacks beyond the initial Assassinate, and a 2nd way to guarantee a critical hit outside of Assassinate (Hold Person).

[Dankus Memakus]

Well, let's look at some options.
Half-Orc Barbarian3/Paladin2/Rogue15
Archetypes: Zealot, Assassin
Weapon of choice: Rapier
A single critical hit can deal (provided by assassinate): 3d8 base damage + 4d8 smite (1st level slot) + 16d6 Sneak Attack + 2d6 Divine Fury
With the following modifiers: + 5 Strength + 3 Magic Weapon + 2 Rage + 1 Divine Fury (The half Barbarian level part isn't multiplied by the crit as it's a modifier)
For a grand total of: 7d8+18d6+11 (Between 36 and 175 damage, for an average of ~106 damage)

Half-Orc Barbarian3/Paladin6/Rogue11
Archetypes: Zealot, Oath of Vengeance, Assassin
Weapon of choice: Rapier
A single critical hit can deal (provided by assassinate): 3d8 base damage + 6d8 smite (2nd level slot) + 12d6 Sneak Attack + 2d6 Divine Fury
With the following modifiers: + 5 Strength + 3 Magic Weapon + 2 Rage + 1 Divine Fury (The half Barbarian level part isn't multiplied by the crit as it's a modifier)
For a grand total of: 9d8+14d6+11 (Between 34 and 167 damage, for an average of ~101 damage)

The second build, while capable of slightly less on an individual swing, does have more staying power on the smites (more slots), extra utility (more Lay on Hands and more spells in general), better defenses (+4hp overall, as well as +Cha Modifier to Saving Throws). It also has the option to make follow up attacks beyond the initial Assassinate, and a 2nd way to guarantee a critical hit outside of Assassinate (Hold Person).

So it sounds like the second option is better, or am I reading that wrong?

Btw I was thinking zealot so I like the way you think

[Citan]

Okay for starters I have the stats for all these multiclasses so i dont wanna debate on MADness. I get its MAD but I'm not optimizing I'm just goofing.

Anyway, I thought of an epic damage powerhouse deal. I was playing a barbarian rogue and really digging the rage+sneak attack so I was thinking. Would paladin levels make it fun. Also if they would, what would be the best split levels wise? Should I attempt to get an archetype in all three? (I know I want a rogue archetype because of the assassin auto-crit seems pretty epic.) Should I only take two levels of paladin? I just want some help. It's just a fun little build so like I said I dont care for optimizing, as long as I'm having fun. :) thanks!
IMO better grab Hexblade Blade Pact Warlock for smiting: unless getting short rests is a problem in your games, you can get smites much quicker than with Paladin, even if it's only once per turn. And you get SAD so you can easily focus on CHA. And you get better against one particular enemy, plus other perks thanks to Invocations. And you can also use Armor of Agathys before raging if you'd like.
Problem is action economy competition on first round, with Rage and hex. But you have only 2 rages a day, while Hex is every short rest, so that competition may not arise that often. :)
YMMV

[Fredaintdead]

So it sounds like the second option is better, or am I reading that wrong?

Btw I was thinking zealot so I like the way you think

I would go with the second option for a well-rounded character yes. It just gives more overall, even if it gives less damage.

[PeteNutButter]

IMO better grab Hexblade Blade Pact Warlock for smiting: unless getting short rests is a problem in your games, you can get smites much quicker than with Paladin, even if it's only once per turn. And you get SAD so you can easily focus on CHA. And you get better against one particular enemy, plus other perks thanks to Invocations. And you can also use Armor of Agathys before raging if you'd like.
Problem is action economy competition on first round, with Rage and hex. But you have only 2 rages a day, while Hex is every short rest, so that competition may not arise that often. :)
YMMV

I’m AFB, but pretty sure rage damage boost and reckless attack require attack rolls with str...

[MeeposFire]

I’m AFB, but pretty sure rage damage boost and reckless attack require attack rolls with str...

You are correct. You can sneak attack with str attacks using a finesse weapon and the rage damage boost and reckless attack require strength so hexblade is not particularly useful here (well at least for the cha to weapon anyway).

Also personally I would not bother with assassin as unless your DM is really generous with surprise the ability is just not that great. IN addition just having a couple of paladin levels and no other levels in a spell casting class really just wastes divine smite. Just a couple 1st level spell slots to use per day is pretty pathetic IMO. Yeah for like one or two hits you deal a little bit more damage than a character that took a couple more levels of rogue but the rogue will stil get some more sneak attack dice which is usable every turn all day. Is a couple of extra dice of damage (and a slightly bigger die on those couple of dice) 2x a day (assuming you go for that 2 levels of paladin option) worth it over getting that extra d6 on every sneak attack you you ever make? For only a very small boost in one or two rounds a day you are giving up more damage on every other attack and I do not think this minor difference is worth it.

[PeteNutButter]

Also personally I would not bother with assassin as unless your DM is really generous with surprise the ability is just not that great. IN addition just having a couple of paladin levels and no other levels in a spell casting class really just wastes divine smite. Just a couple 1st level spell slots to use per day is pretty pathetic IMO. Yeah for like one or two hits you deal a little bit more damage than a character that took a couple more levels of rogue but the rogue will stil get some more sneak attack dice which is usable every turn all day. Is a couple of extra dice of damage (and a slightly bigger die on those couple of dice) 2x a day (assuming you go for that 2 levels of paladin option) worth it over getting that extra d6 on every sneak attack you you ever make? For only a very small boost in one or two rounds a day you are giving up more damage on every other attack and I do not think this minor difference is worth it.

Exactly. Barb 5/Rogue x is pretty peak damage. You can mix in a fighter level for a FS, but anything much more is just going to hurt your damage in the long run.

[Dankus Memakus]

You are correct. You can sneak attack with str attacks using a finesse weapon and the rage damage boost and reckless attack require strength so hexblade is not particularly useful here (well at least for the cha to weapon anyway).

Also personally I would not bother with assassin as unless your DM is really generous with surprise the ability is just not that great. IN addition just having a couple of paladin levels and no other levels in a spell casting class really just wastes divine smite. Just a couple 1st level spell slots to use per day is pretty pathetic IMO. Yeah for like one or two hits you deal a little bit more damage than a character that took a couple more levels of rogue but the rogue will stil get some more sneak attack dice which is usable every turn all day. Is a couple of extra dice of damage (and a slightly bigger die on those couple of dice) 2x a day (assuming you go for that 2 levels of paladin option) worth it over getting that extra d6 on every sneak attack you you ever make? For only a very small boost in one or two rounds a day you are giving up more damage on every other attack and I do not think this minor difference is worth it.

Well I have expertise in stealth so I usually surprise the first round of combat so I will get to use that alot. Plus what other subclass would I take?

[MeeposFire]

Well I have expertise in stealth so I usually surprise the first round of combat so I will get to use that alot. Plus what other subclass would I take?

Where is the rest of the party? If they are far out then you just started an encounter with just yourself which can be a very bad idea. If the party is close enough that you are not in danger of being stomped then your DM is probably being fairly generous since I doubt your other party members are so skilled in being quiet.

For me if you had to go with the smiting idea then the best option would be arcane trickster so you can get more spell slots to use with smiting. Outside of arcane trickster (which is good on its own in addition to being able to give you more spell slots) I prefer thief or swashbuckler to assassin as I find them to be just more useful. Scout also has its moments. The ability to use items as a bonus action is really useful if you like being clever with item usage. Swashbuckler makes your job slightly easier so you do not have to use reckless attack to get sneak attack in more situations and also gets some interesting social and tanking abilities. Scout gives useful skills and some mobility options but of course without the highest level ability to make an attack as a bonus action it may not be worth it.

Arcane trickster is probably the best one. Even with rage you just cast spells on combats you do not rage and that can give you more smites if you really like the idea of adding smites.

It all depends on exactly what you want to do and include but for me I am not a fan of the assassin type.

[Kyrinthic]

A lot of GMs dont understand how assassins work, and just let them get free crits if they make a stealth roll. Makes them kinda broken. He probably has one of those GMs by the replies.

[Quoxis]

I‘m gonna jump on the bandwagon of „not enough smites and the few you get are weak“, but... what about barb/pally/charisma caster and maaaybe some rogue?
With two levels of paladin you‘d need 6 levels of either bard or sorcerer to get 4th level spell slots which means peak smite damage - divine smites are a class feature, so they work while raging. Whisper bard would give your character another few 3d6 bonus damage uses on a hit (with highest level smites that’s weapon damage + 5d8+3d6+ rage damage + potentially even sneak attack), but almost any subclass works.
Four subclasses means you won’t reach any high-level stuff and some low-level goodies come online pretty late, but that’s up to you.
I propose barbarian 2/paladin 2/whisper bard 6/any rogue 10, or you ditch the rogue for barb 12 with less sneak attack, but multiattack, more rage damage per hit and other nice things.

[MagneticKitty]

What about paladin 3 (redemption or vengence for hold person = auto crits) go to any rogue you want.

Or kobold ranger revised lv 4 beast master (mounted combat for your asi) / rogue assassin x
You get advantage on every hit thanks to riding your mount with pack tactics. Ranger gives you advantage on initiative rolls and hunters Mark (more damage dice). You take damage for it to keep it alive. Panther for climbing and sneaking, perhaps. If your panther disengages and moves you away, you don't take aoo since you're not the one moving (not moving by your own will)
Also try magic initiate green fire blade for more dice to crit with.

Pumping levels into barb sacrifices sneak attack damage and is not worth it. Crits only double dice, not flat modifiers. With rogue and trying to crit you really want more dice not flat modifiers. Hunters Mark and green fire blade/booming blade are way better.

Also it is possible to get sneak attack on attacks of opportunity.
So tunnel fighter fighting style on ranger if your dm allows it (not sure it's a ranger fighting style) or sentinal are great for you.

[greenstone]

Well I have expertise in stealth so I usually surprise the first round of combat...
You might have expertise in stealth, but what about the rest of the party?

[Dankus Memakus]

Where is the rest of the party? If they are far out then you just started an encounter with just yourself which can be a very bad idea. If the party is close enough that you are not in danger of being stomped then your DM is probably being fairly generous since I doubt your other party members are so skilled in being quiet.

For me if you had to go with the smiting idea then the best option would be arcane trickster so you can get more spell slots to use with smiting. Outside of arcane trickster (which is good on its own in addition to being able to give you more spell slots) I prefer thief or swashbuckler to assassin as I find them to be just more useful. Scout also has its moments. The ability to use items as a bonus action is really useful if you like being clever with item usage. Swashbuckler makes your job slightly easier so you do not have to use reckless attack to get sneak attack in more situations and also gets some interesting social and tanking abilities. Scout gives useful skills and some mobility options but of course without the highest level ability to make an attack as a bonus action it may not be worth it.

Arcane trickster is probably the best one. Even with rage you just cast spells on combats you do not rage and that can give you more smites if you really like the idea of adding smites.

It all depends on exactly what you want to do and include but for me I am not a fan of the assassin type.

Well my other party mates are a bard, a rouge, a shadow monk and a trickery cleric, all with stealth and the trickery cleric has his little support ability that boosts our stealthyness so we sneak around alot. I will debate the arcane trickster although I have garbage INT so I may not have any use for spells besides smite

Edit: I may do swashbuckler, I just got my first paladin level today so we will see when I get to 3 on rouge what fits best. Also if I pick zealot I'm revived easily enough so it's fine if I did sneak in alone

[Dankus Memakus]

I‘m gonna jump on the bandwagon of „not enough smites and the few you get are weak“, but... what about barb/pally/charisma caster and maaaybe some rogue?
With two levels of paladin you‘d need 6 levels of either bard or sorcerer to get 4th level spell slots which means peak smite damage - divine smites are a class feature, so they work while raging. Whisper bard would give your character another few 3d6 bonus damage uses on a hit (with highest level smites that’s weapon damage + 5d8+3d6+ rage damage + potentially even sneak attack), but almost any subclass works.
Four subclasses means you won’t reach any high-level stuff and some low-level goodies come online pretty late, but that’s up to you.
I propose barbarian 2/paladin 2/whisper bard 6/any rogue 10, or you ditch the rogue for barb 12 with less sneak attack, but multiattack, more rage damage per hit and other nice things.

I already had levels on barb and rogue so I woulda taken your suggestion had I not already multiclassed

Edit: also I may have some fun with that quadruple multiclass at a later date because it sounds fun.

[Citan]

I’m AFB, but pretty sure rage damage boost and reckless attack require attack rolls with str...
True indeed, but...

You are correct. You can sneak attack with str attacks using a finesse weapon and the rage damage boost and reckless attack require strength so hexblade is not particularly useful here (well at least for the cha to weapon anyway).

Well, my assumption was that OP was gonna keep Barbarians levels fairly low, so bonus damage would amount to +2, on one or two attacks per round for most of his carreer, meaning really not something that we should care about (especially considering the bonus on the other side, from the hex).

I also had the assumption OP would usually dual-wield (since less need for Cunning Action because ragin in melee) or pick Shield Master if using a shield so using a Shove/Grapple with one weapon attack to get advantage on the other, hence not needing to use the Reckless Attack feature.

Under both assumptions, Hexblade is the best choice: not only to you get Patron's Hex, as well as cantrips and spells to help, you can also get the only way (AFAIK) to smite on a ranged weapon attack. Which partially address the legitimate concern raised by some here about going alone to ambush the enemy then have to wait several rounds before allies can come to help, or give birth to some interesting harass tactics.
And you get short-rest slots for smite, which may or not be actually good depending on your party practices though. ^^


If first assumption is true and the other false, Hexblade is still a good choice. With only 2 rages a day, you'll like having better damage against a few enemies and other tricks to help you in other ways (like Mirror Image or Fear, and cantrips like Minor Illusion to create covers or Mage Hand to interact with objects from a distance), as well as a quick and easy way to upgrade your melee damage (Booming Blade).
If first assumption is false and other true, 1-level dip is still worth for utility cantrips and spells and short-rest hex.
Let's recall that it gives, even if only against one enemy per short rest, expanded crit

In the other cases, it's not. :)

[djreynolds]

Rogue paladin.
Rapier or scimitar or short sword
Shield
Shield master
Expertise in athletics
No barbarian, because of spells like bless, SOF, and smite spells, hold person, invisibility.
Though I like assassin. Arcane trickster will give more spell slots.

You can use a finesse weapon strength based to get sneak attack.
Shield master and expertise in athletics is just fine for advantage
Invisibility or simply stealth can also aid you in advantage. Hold person, another concentration spell is good as well.