[3.5] Demons of Chaos - Tempting the weak into madness?

[InterstellarPro]

To any of TallerSpine's players, he asked me for advice, but did not want to post on the forum in case you all were reading his posts. But, he agreed to allow me to post so long as I added this preface. If you are one of his players, please do not read further.

Glabrezus are capable of granting wishes once per month, but only if the wish causes great pain or evil. The party is temporarily in Xoriat. They need a powerful magical item. The easiest way to obtain the item would be to wish for it from the Glabrezu. However, the Glabrezu is a servant of the Daelkyr rather than some great Demon Prince. What sort of payment would the Glabrezu desire in exchange for a wish? Would he still desire pain? I figure chaos is more what he is after than pain. Or madness. Any ideas would be welcome.

[Feantar]

You've got a bit of an issue there. They are capable of offering a wish once per month, no limitations. If the wish doesn't cause Evil tm they request Evil tm deeds; it is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of willingness. I am not being a pedant, this is relevant because since it's a matter of choice then the choice lies with the demon. As such, it would ask for something that furthers its, or its masters, goals unless the wish already does so. Xoriat isn't the plane of generic chaos, it is more of the plane of dynamic reality & Truths that Sophonts were not Meant to Know. It might seem chaotic and nonsensical, but you need to have a goal in mind.

[Ryuuk]

If the party is in Xoriat, dealing with a demon servant of the Dealkyr who's offering a monkey's paw style wish, I'd say that the item also acts as a beacon. If they step back into the material, they leave the way open behind them as long as the item remains in the material. Afterall, why else would the demon cooperate if not to further its own ends?

[InterstellarPro]

You've got a bit of an issue there. They are capable of offering a wish once per month, no limitations. If the wish doesn't cause Evil tm they request Evil tm deeds; it is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of willingness. I am not being a pedant, this is relevant because since it's a matter of choice then the choice lies with the demon. As such, it would ask for something that furthers its, or its masters, goals unless the wish already does so. Xoriat isn't the plane of generic chaos, it is more of the plane of dynamic reality & Truths that Sophonts were not Meant to Know. It might seem chaotic and nonsensical, but you need to have a goal in mind.

The campaign is not really about Xoriat. This demon is kinda a side quest that was not really necessary, but was given to the party as an option, and they took the hook without really understanding what they were getting themselves into. So, the DM wants to make the demon willing, wants the cost to be something that the party will think they can give into, but it will turn out extremely badly if they do not negotiate it just right.


If the party is in Xoriat, dealing with a demon servant of the Dealkyr who's offering a monkey's paw style wish, I'd say that the item also acts as a beacon. If they step back into the material, they leave the way open behind them as long as the item remains in the material. Afterall, why else would the demon cooperate if not to further its own ends?

That's a cool idea, but the DM does not want to make the game too much about Xoriat. The party got there because the doorway was left open that they could. The party decided that meant that they should. The item that they will get is going to allow them to mirror the planar bubble of a planar shepherd attuned to Dal Quor. It is artifact-level power. The Glabrezu could help them find it. He is not intelligent enough to comprehend the brilliance of the Daelkyr. Keep in mind, Daelkyr have an intelligence of 25. Glabrezu have an Int of 16. The Glabrezu has seen horrors that he cannot unsee. As Feantar mentions, it only appears like chaos. He is unprepared for a system of order that is so far beyond his comprehension as to appear like chaos to an outside observer (which is what initially drew him to the plane untold aeons ago). He cannot comprehend the purpose of the Daelkyr. And every attempt that he makes to do so plunges him further into insanity. He is a one-shot advanced Glabrezu. He is going to be a combat monster, capable of dismantling the entire party, but he is too insane to do anything of the sort. He will help them. But, the cost should be a demon's attempts to comprehend the Daelkyr's great works. That is where both I and the actual DM are having trouble. Neither of us is smart enough to comprehend the Daelkyrs' master plans.

[Ryuuk]

That's a cool idea, but the DM does not want to make the game too much about Xoriat. The party got there because the doorway was left open that they could. The party decided that meant that they should. The item that they will get is going to allow them to mirror the planar bubble of a planar shepherd attuned to Dal Quor. It is artifact-level power. The Glabrezu could help them find it. He is not intelligent enough to comprehend the brilliance of the Daelkyr. Keep in mind, Daelkyr have an intelligence of 25. Glabrezu have an Int of 16. The Glabrezu has seen horrors that he cannot unsee. As Feantar mentions, it only appears like chaos. He is unprepared for a system of order that is so far beyond his comprehension as to appear like chaos to an outside observer (which is what initially drew him to the plane untold aeons ago). He cannot comprehend the purpose of the Daelkyr. And every attempt that he makes to do so plunges him further into insanity. He is a one-shot advanced Glabrezu. He is going to be a combat monster, capable of dismantling the entire party, but he is too insane to do anything of the sort. He will help them. But, the cost should be a demon's attempts to comprehend the Daelkyr's great works. That is where both I and the actual DM are having trouble. Neither of us is smart enough to comprehend the Daelkyrs' master plans.

So a Daelkyr fan, rather then a proper servant. Alright, if it has been struggling to 'join' them, or understand them, then helping the party should somehow help him as well. He's already advanced, and has had multiple failed attempts at enlightenment... Would Dal Quor's flowing time help an immortal being like the Glabrezu understand them? I'd say so, at least from his insane perspective, the artifact would be a great way to accelerate its research. Seeing the fabric of the plane in slow motion might be what he was missing.

The Glabrezu goes into negotiations with a goal of having the party reach the artifact, but for its ownership to go to him with clever wording of the wish. The party would need to see this trap and try to outsmart it.

Not too original, but it could work.

[InterstellarPro]

So a Daelkyr fan, rather then a proper servant. Alright, if it has been struggling to 'join' them, or understand them, then helping the party should somehow help him as well. He's already advanced, and has had multiple failed attempts at enlightenment... Would Dal Quor's flowing time help an immortal being like the Glabrezu understand them? I'd say so, at least from his insane perspective, the artifact would be a great way to accelerate its research. Seeing the fabric of the plane in slow motion might be what he was missing.

The Glabrezu goes into negotiations with a goal of having the party reach the artifact, but for its ownership to go to him with clever wording of the wish. The party would need to see this trap and try to outsmart it.

Not too original, but it could work.

The DM figured out what the Glabrezu will want in return. He just wants some help casting a spell. What the party will not realize is that once they agree, they will be helping cast the spell for a LONG time. It will be a ritual that will last for 100 days. Since they are in Xoriat, that will mean 6,000 days will pass on the material plane before they return. And they will not be able to back out in the middle. Once they agree (if they agree), they are committed. That means they will be gone for around 16.5 years. Plus, the demon will cast its spell. Double ouch.

[Inevitability]

You've got a bit of an issue there. They are capable of offering a wish once per month, no limitations. If the wish doesn't cause Evil tm they request Evil tm deeds; it is not a matter of ability, it is a matter of willingness. I am not being a pedant, this is relevant because since it's a matter of choice then the choice lies with the demon. As such, it would ask for something that furthers its, or its masters, goals unless the wish already does so. Xoriat isn't the plane of generic chaos, it is more of the plane of dynamic reality & Truths that Sophonts were not Meant to Know. It might seem chaotic and nonsensical, but you need to have a goal in mind.

Sophonts? You wouldn't happen to know about Orion's Arm would you?

[Ryuuk]

The DM figured out what the Glabrezu will want in return. He just wants some help casting a spell. What the party will not realize is that once they agree, they will be helping cast the spell for a LONG time. It will be a ritual that will last for 100 days. Since they are in Xoriat, that will mean 6,000 days will pass on the material plane before they return. And they will not be able to back out in the middle. Once they agree (if they agree), they are committed. That means they will be gone for around 16.5 years. Plus, the demon will cast its spell. Double ouch.

Nice. Were I a player, the moment it is clear the ritual will take a while, I'd trying using the Artifact to jump into Dal Quor time and try to mitigate the damage done a bit.

[TallerSpine]

This was for my campaign, and it worked really well. I went with a bit of lazy storytelling and used a classic trope. The Glabrezu was trying to trick the party into helping him cast an epic spell. The campaign is gestalt, so I gave the Glabrezu a bunch of sorcerer levels. He doubled the party's level, so it was a bit of a Deus ex Machina.

When the encounter began, the demon was very cordial. He offered to give them a tour, allowed them to rest peacefully to regain spells and power points. He had his familiar (a quasit who used alternate form to remain a Medium Monstrous Centipede) watch over them for the night. The party was inside one of the many stomachs of a creature large enough to have giant caves as stomachs. But, any damage to the cave walls caused bleeding, obviously. After they rested, they attempted to communicate with the centipede and it used Familiar Spell polymorph to turn into a Glabrezu, explaining that it was just a familiar. The party wrongly assumed that meant the larger glabrezu they originally met was powerful enough to have a second glabrezu as a familiar, but really it was just a polymorphed quasit. As they are talking to the familiar, he claims that his master is only 11 years old.

They are brought to meet up with the master glabrezu. He gives them a tour of several stomach chambers, regaling them with tales of ritual tortures that took place in each chamber. He cut the stomach lining in one chamber to reveal a massive cache of torture implements hidden within the stomach lining. As they entered the third or fourth chamber, he began to convulse and was wracked with pain. His form began changing (no one bothered rolling spellcraft, but it was a silent, still polymorph spell). Soon, he was an 11 year old human. He said his name was Kyle, from Earth. He explained that he was playing a game called Dungeons and Dragons. He was having a blast playing his sorcerer. They had just hit epic levels, and he was coming into some real power. He was level 27 at the time. The party interrupted him and asked him about "levels" and what a "DM" was. This demon was obviously cray-cray. But, it was Xoriat, so they were prepared to deal with madness.

Over the next several minutes, the boy explained how his character was getting shown up by the party druid, and he just wanted to beat him once. So, his character made a deal with a Glabrezu. He asked the Glabrezu for a power boost. The DM ruled that in exchange for his soul, the character would gain three levels. Kyle's sorcerer showed that stupid druid! Kyle told his DM, "Man, I would sell my own soul to be my sorcerer! I mean, like really be him!" His DM said, "With a drop of blood, a covenant will be struck." So, he pricked his finger and his DM turned into a glabrezu and took him to Xoriat. He claimed not to realize that Zolmuman (the name of the Glabrezu) had turned into him. Whenever the party mentioned it, he would say something like, "I don't think that's true..." or "No, no, that doesn't sound right..." and then move on with his story.

In the end, he said that he wanted to create an epic spell that would use the Husk of Infinite Worlds to find Earth specifically and help him get there and stay there. In exchange, he would grant the party a wish. He said, "It will only cost me 5,000 XP. If I'm going home, I won't need XP anymore, anyway!" The party was incredulous. They didn't know what XP was. Even if the boy was telling the truth, he was still also the demon. Did they really want to send the demon to some unsuspecting world? They asked Kyle, "Are there demons on Earth?" Kyle said, "Not really... but yeah, maybe. Zolmuman was there and tricked him in the first place, so yeah, probably." The party reluctantly agreed. Kyle said, "Okay, with a drop of blood, the blood covenant will be complete. I will harness your arcane, divine, or psionic powers for the duration of a ritual. Once it is complete, I will grant your wish (to get the item they had come to Xoriat for in the first place). I will get to go home. (As the DM, I thought that the blood covenant would ruin the whole deal, but I guess they were committed at that point, so they all agreed.) Kyle promptly dropped the human facade and returned to Glabrezu form. The party was helpless as their power was used to cast an Origin of the Species spell. It had nothing to do with a little boy going home. That was all lies from the demon prince, Zolmuman. I didn't explain how he knew so much about Earth.

The species that was created was a half-ogre. Part of the mitigating factors was that not even he knew what kind of creature was being created (I did not bother assigning a DC modifier, as it did not matter.) Disappointed with his creation, he shoved it into the Husk of Infinite Worlds. The players realized this was the origin story of one of their player's characters in another one of our ongoing campaigns that was created "by the daelkyr", but not much else was known about it. All in all, it was a satisfying encounter. The demon was forced by the blood covenant to follow through on his end of the bargain and cast the wish and handed them the item they needed. He then capriciously sent them on their way.

[InterstellarPro]

This was for my campaign, and it worked really well. I went with a bit of lazy storytelling and used a classic trope. The Glabrezu was trying to trick the party into helping him cast an epic spell. The campaign is gestalt, so I gave the Glabrezu a bunch of sorcerer levels. He doubled the party's level, so it was a bit of a Deus ex Machina.

When the encounter began, the demon was very cordial. He offered to give them a tour, allowed them to rest peacefully to regain spells and power points. He had his familiar (a quasit who used alternate form to remain a Medium Monstrous Centipede) watch over them for the night. The party was inside one of the many stomachs of a creature large enough to have giant caves as stomachs. But, any damage to the cave walls caused bleeding, obviously. After they rested, they attempted to communicate with the centipede and it used Familiar Spell polymorph to turn into a Glabrezu, explaining that it was just a familiar. The party wrongly assumed that meant the larger glabrezu they originally met was powerful enough to have a second glabrezu as a familiar, but really it was just a polymorphed quasit. As they are talking to the familiar, he claims that his master is only 11 years old.

They are brought to meet up with the master glabrezu. He gives them a tour of several stomach chambers, regaling them with tales of ritual tortures that took place in each chamber. He cut the stomach lining in one chamber to reveal a massive cache of torture implements hidden within the stomach lining. As they entered the third or fourth chamber, he began to convulse and was wracked with pain. His form began changing (no one bothered rolling spellcraft, but it was a silent, still polymorph spell). Soon, he was an 11 year old human. He said his name was Kyle, from Earth. He explained that he was playing a game called Dungeons and Dragons. He was having a blast playing his sorcerer. They had just hit epic levels, and he was coming into some real power. He was level 27 at the time. The party interrupted him and asked him about "levels" and what a "DM" was. This demon was obviously cray-cray. But, it was Xoriat, so they were prepared to deal with madness.

Over the next several minutes, the boy explained how his character was getting shown up by the party druid, and he just wanted to beat him once. So, his character made a deal with a Glabrezu. He asked the Glabrezu for a power boost. The DM ruled that in exchange for his soul, the character would gain three levels. Kyle's sorcerer showed that stupid druid! Kyle told his DM, "Man, I would sell my own soul to be my sorcerer! I mean, like really be him!" His DM said, "With a drop of blood, a covenant will be struck." So, he pricked his finger and his DM turned into a glabrezu and took him to Xoriat. He claimed not to realize that Zolmuman (the name of the Glabrezu) had turned into him. Whenever the party mentioned it, he would say something like, "I don't think that's true..." or "No, no, that doesn't sound right..." and then move on with his story.

In the end, he said that he wanted to create an epic spell that would use the Husk of Infinite Worlds to find Earth specifically and help him get there and stay there. In exchange, he would grant the party a wish. He said, "It will only cost me 5,000 XP. If I'm going home, I won't need XP anymore, anyway!" The party was incredulous. They didn't know what XP was. Even if the boy was telling the truth, he was still also the demon. Did they really want to send the demon to some unsuspecting world? They asked Kyle, "Are there demons on Earth?" Kyle said, "Not really... but yeah, maybe. Zolmuman was there and tricked him in the first place, so yeah, probably." The party reluctantly agreed. Kyle said, "Okay, with a drop of blood, the blood covenant will be complete. I will harness your arcane, divine, or psionic powers for the duration of a ritual. Once it is complete, I will grant your wish (to get the item they had come to Xoriat for in the first place). I will get to go home. (As the DM, I thought that the blood covenant would ruin the whole deal, but I guess they were committed at that point, so they all agreed.) Kyle promptly dropped the human facade and returned to Glabrezu form. The party was helpless as their power was used to cast an Origin of the Species spell. It had nothing to do with a little boy going home. That was all lies from the demon prince, Zolmuman. I didn't explain how he knew so much about Earth.

The species that was created was a half-ogre. Part of the mitigating factors was that not even he knew what kind of creature was being created (I did not bother assigning a DC modifier, as it did not matter.) Disappointed with his creation, he shoved it into the Husk of Infinite Worlds. The players realized this was the origin story of one of their player's characters in another one of our ongoing campaigns that was created "by the daelkyr", but not much else was known about it. All in all, it was a satisfying encounter. The demon was forced by the blood covenant to follow through on his end of the bargain and cast the wish and handed them the item they needed. He then capriciously sent them on their way.

Ugh! When you told me the demon was tricking them into helping him with an Origin of the Species spell, I was excited. I didn't realize you were going with something so uncreative. This is just bad. My guess, you are the only one who took satisfaction from the encounter. Your players, probably not so much...

[Inevitability]

Ugh! When you told me the demon was tricking them into helping him with an Origin of the Species spell, I was excited. I didn't realize you were going with something so uncreative. This is just bad. My guess, you are the only one who took satisfaction from the encounter. Your players, probably not so much...

Please tell me more about how you think a random DM and his group are doing things wrong.

[InterstellarPro]

Please tell me more about how you think a random DM and his group are doing things wrong.

We have been friends since we were kids. He is not a random DM. If you look at the top, the original post was mine, not his. I posted on his behalf because he knows his players frequent this forum. I was joking with him. After he ran the session where this question came up, he posted the results.

[TallerSpine]

Ugh! When you told me the demon was tricking them into helping him with an Origin of the Species spell, I was excited. I didn't realize you were going with something so uncreative. This is just bad. My guess, you are the only one who took satisfaction from the encounter. Your players, probably not so much...

It's better than how you start every campaign with a quest to kill rats in an old woman's basemenr.

[InterstellarPro]

It's better than how you start every campaign with a quest to kill rats in an old woman's basemenr.

Lol, that was back in the days of my Morrowind obsession. I forgot about that!