Dream Druids Seem 'off'?

[rexonology]

Hi all!:)

My party currently has a bard(only healing word), shadow sorcerer, rogue and fighter. Im looking to play a healer/ controller from level 5 to 10 and have been looking at the druid class.

I was interested to play a dream druid but I just feel like their abilities fall rather flat as compared to the land and shepherd druid :( they essentially have a bunch of healing words. But the shepherd can summon a crazy healing/ temp hp totem and the land druid has natural recovery that lets them get back a ton of healing spells along with a lot of circle spells.

Any circle recommendations?:( I wanna choose a dream druid but I feel like I would regret the decision when I think about what the other circles could have done haha

[Maxilian]

Every druid is great for out of combat heal just with Healing Spirit, the dream druid "healing word" means that you can keep more of your spell slot for other things (be it more heals or anything else), also have in mind that your healing also give the target some extra movement, that could let the pc run out of the enemy range even if you use disengage, forcing the enemy to pick another target or use their action to dash (meaning no attack)

[rexonology]

Thanks haha!:) But do you think a shepherd druid could better fit the bill? The spirit totems are insane! At level 5 a healing word can give an additional +5 hp per member in the party 0.0 and a bear totem can give an instantaneous 10hp boost to all PCs and summons with a bonus action haha XD not to mention that it recharges every short rest.
I just find it a very cheesy and frustrating pick for my DM because it seems to be sooooooo strong.

Oh for the dreams druid I think they removed the movement bonus in XGTE :(

[sophontteks]

If its any consolation the bonus action heal isn't a spell so you can do it while wildshaped and you can still cast a regular non-cantrip spell. Same with the level 10 ability. The big issue is that level 6 skill, which would require some work on the DMs part to even make useful at all.

[stoutstien]

Well balm of the summer court is a tad stronger than you think. First off it's not a spell and a bonus action. So you can be casting away and use balm as a touch up with out slowing down.side works in wild shapes , anti magic fields, while silenced, can't be countered, and so forth.
Lv 6 feature is weak but having a safer long rest is never a bad idea.
Honestly it may be my favorite support druid subclass now.

[rexonology]

Yea :( and our campaign days are very short as we play in a shop so we would usually only take one short rest per day.

Could I just ask, of the non-moon circle casters, which one would you pick if you wanted to be a healer/ controller with healing-lite bard on the team? Im really considering a land druid as well because natural recovery seems like no joke at all.

[Protato]

I've played as a Dream Druid and trust me, they're plenty good. Balm of the Summer Court was used in and out of combat in conjunction with Healing Spirit to great effect, and so was Hidden Paths. I mean, you get five or so Misty Steps that doesn't even count as a spell? And you can use it on allies? The Hearth can be useful if you want to rest in a dungeon or to save money on inns. I never played up to the subclass capstone though. You get all this plus Wildshape and full spellcasting. Dream Druid is honestly a fantastic support class, with good scouting, control, decent damage, and pretty good healing. I recommend them as much as a Cleric or Bard.

[rexonology]

I've played as a Dream Druid and trust me, they're plenty good. Balm of the Summer Court was used in and out of combat in conjunction with Healing Spirit to great effect, and so was Hidden Paths. I mean, you get five or so Misty Steps that doesn't even count as a spell? And you can use it on allies? The Hearth can be useful if you want to rest in a dungeon or to save money on inns. I never played up to the subclass capstone though. You get all this plus Wildshape and full spellcasting. Dream Druid is honestly a fantastic support class, with good scouting, control, decent damage, and pretty good healing. I recommend them as much as a Cleric or Bard.

Thanks!:) I don't think I will go past level 10 with my campaign so I probably won't enjoy all the teleportation haha! But thanks thanks it's good to hear I know theory crafting and actually playing it is usually very different.

[PeteNutButter]

Throw on a level in life cleric and you’ve got the best healer in the game. Dream Druids rock. It’s a near spammable healing word ability that doesn’t conflict with casting leveled spells. It offers far more than you give it credit.

[rexonology]

Throw on a level in life cleric and you’ve got the best healer in the game. Dream Druids rock. It’s a near spammable healing word ability that doesn’t conflict with casting leveled spells. It offers far more than you give it credit.

Thanks great to see the dreams love here!:)

Im just worried because my party had a celestial warlock once who had to blow through all his healing pools in two turns during one of our harder battles. And when I dooooo think about it each balm pool really only heals an avrg of 3+1 hp XD. At level 5 that's a total of 20Hp for all my 5 healing pools which doesn't seem all that crazy everytime I think about it 0.0

[Protato]

Hey, that healing may not be all that big numerically but it adds up. Besides, its great at getting someone out of unconsciousness. Also, you can roll a number of dice up to half your Druid level on them, giving it a good amount of nova healing.

[Corpsecandle717]

You're not going to put your party at risk by taking a totem or land druid. Both will be capable healers in a party. If either of those actually appeals to you and your play style, you will definitely be capable of keeping your group up and running. Dream is the definitive druid healer subclass, but it's not the only one capable of healing.

[tieren]

Natural recovery is about equivalent to the balm of the summer court if you assume as the healer you will toss a few healing words and get those slots back with the natural recovery. Being able to toss those heals without even being spells is actually an upgrade.

I mean at level 6 natural recovery will get you back 3 healing words, its not so world shattering good that you should avoid other subclasses to pick it up. Especially if as you say you generally only get one short rest a day.

[Maxilian]

Throw on a level in life cleric and you’ve got the best healer in the game. Dream Druids rock. It’s a near spammable healing word ability that doesn’t conflict with casting leveled spells. It offers far more than you give it credit.

Have in mind that the bonus heal is not a spell, so no bonus to heal with Disciple of life.

[Contrast]

Thanks great to see the dreams love here!:)

Im just worried because my party had a celestial warlock once who had to blow through all his healing pools in two turns during one of our harder battles. And when I dooooo think about it each balm pool really only heals an avrg of 3+1 hp XD. At level 5 that's a total of 20Hp for all my 5 healing pools which doesn't seem all that crazy everytime I think about it 0.0

Minor correction in that average on a d6 is 3.5 not 3.

Saves you using spell slots and an improved version of healing word (which is inefficient in terms of hit points but amazing in terms of action economy in combat) and as a druid you have the best out of combat healing in the game in healing spirit (which is amazing in terms of hit points but a bit naff in combat/emergencies) so you're covered on both sides.

I don't think dreams is strictly as good as land or moon. I'm not sure if its better than shepherd as you'd need to use summons and I've always avoided them on the basis that they bog down the game. That said, its also my favourite druid subclass because I love the flavour and I'm a sucker for teleportation abilities.

My summary is that its good enough and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend giving playing one a shot.

[Belier]

I think the real balm of the dream druid is to teleport.

The summer balm court is nice to get people back into the fight, but will run out quickly if you nova them.

The rest ability is overshadowed by rope trick and tiny hut, does not provide much benefit for social nor battle, kinda a waste.

Shepherds abilities are better, temps hp from bear is a bit like a divine intervention of life cleric but it wont raise people if they are uncouncious and it makes grapples easier to attempt. Unicorn is a potent healer ability and level 6 ability makes your summons ignore resistance to non magical, but will means that you summon often and make others wait forever for their turn.

However, if you are clever about your summer balms, they are still very useful, the range is 120 wich is fantastic and it is not a spell, which allow you to cast something else than a cantrip and means that you can prepare other spells than healing spells. I just find it sad they removed the speed bonus, it's not like the dream druid is broken any way. I would suggest to maybe get a life cleric level so that you always have healing word prepared, and it works with goodberries and healing spirit. At early levels, you can give your allies a few berry's and when they feel unsafe they will gladly eat some, helping you to not nova your balms. If you want to save on your balm, you can always have healing spirit in combat behind your melees wich will now not be afraid to trigger AoO so that other allies can hit and run ennemies also. Healing spirit heals for +4 hp and all your allies can use it in one turn if they really want. Overall, summer balm will be a bit less efficient with he's ability than the shepherd, but he will be more consistent because the shepherd have only 1 spirit per short rest.

Any way, at level 6 with mighty summoner you can summon like 8 creature of cr 1/4 and they will have tons of hp. +11 temp hp with the bear and +2 per hit die will insure they have 4 to 8 extra hp. Meaning you have 8 more allies with an extra 15 to 19 hp to soak up damage and they ignore resistance to non magical like I said. This is kind of broken and it becomes even worse at level 10, you can cast it with higher slots and heal them every turn you cast a spell.

[hymer]

Natural recovery is about equivalent to the balm of the summer court if you assume as the healer you will toss a few healing words and get those slots back with the natural recovery. Being able to toss those heals without even being spells is actually an upgrade.

I mean at level 6 natural recovery will get you back 3 healing words, its not so world shattering good that you should avoid other subclasses to pick it up. Especially if as you say you generally only get one short rest a day.

An opposing point of view:
One short rest per day is the perfect amount for Natural Recovery. And Natural Recovery gets you back spell slots that can be used to heal a heck of a lot more than Healing Balm. Even if you go all Healing Word, d4+5 is pretty close to 2d6, probably no accident. And those spell slots can be used for a whole lot of other things instead, where balm can heal (albeit at greater range) and nothing more.
The only substantial advantage of balm over recovery is that it isn't a spell. It can be used in wild shape (unless your DM is really that stingy), and doesn't interfere nearly so much with casting. If you've found yourself annoyed often enough by casting Healing Word on account of what you can then do with your Action, or wishing you could heal in wild shape (and the existing options aren't doing it for you) then balm makes sense for you. Other than that, it kinda sucks. Natural Recovery isn't exactly a huge deal, and yet it's pretty straightforwardly better.

[Belier]

TBH it would've been nice if they gave a sprite familiar for fluff to the dream druid since it fit thematically and would not break the archetype.

[tieren]

An opposing point of view:
One short rest per day is the perfect amount for Natural Recovery. And Natural Recovery gets you back spell slots that can be used to heal a heck of a lot more than Healing Balm. Even if you go all Healing Word, d4+5 is pretty close to 2d6, probably no accident. And those spell slots can be used for a whole lot of other things instead, where balm can heal (albeit at greater range) and nothing more.
The only substantial advantage of balm over recovery is that it isn't a spell. It can be used in wild shape (unless your DM is really that stingy), and doesn't interfere nearly so much with casting. If you've found yourself annoyed often enough by casting Healing Word on account of what you can then do with your Action, or wishing you could heal in wild shape (and the existing options aren't doing it for you) then balm makes sense for you. Other than that, it kinda sucks. Natural Recovery isn't exactly a huge deal, and yet it's pretty straightforwardly better.

I get what you are saying, natural recovery has more versatility because you can use it on more than just healing word. At level 6 he could get a 3rd level spell back which can be a big deal.

But if he is using healing word, which as the main healer I assumed he would to bring people back up (I know I do), then getting back those healing words through natural recovery isn't terribly different than the free heals from Summer Court.

OP seemed concerned he was giving up something grand for something that doesn't sound that impressive, but they are pretty darn close for someone filling the healing role at least.

[PeteNutButter]

People are not giving the "it's not a spell" enough credit. That aspect is huge.

If you are a non-moon druid, you are casting spells in combat. If you can cast offensive spells and pick up an ally at the same time then you are doubling your output. Action economy is everything in 5e and this goes a long way in stretching it. This becomes far more effective at higher levels when you'll have the spell slots to cast every round instead of just slinging cantrips or using a previously cast concentration spell. How many times have you seen the situation where a player could cast a great offensive spell, but they can't because they have to healing word the guy with two failed death saves...

The actual amount of healing isn't really a big deal. You will only use 1d6 in the vast majority of situations, just like up-casting Healing Word is basically garbage unless you're a life cleric or are out of 1st level slots. You just need to pick up an ally. Allies with 1 hp can take any action that a full hp ally can. The fact that you can keep picking up your allies again and again, and not tap into your spell slots is very potent.

[hymer]

How many times have you seen the situation where a player could cast a great offensive spell, but they can't because they have to healing word the guy with two failed death saves...
Not a single time. :smallsmile:
Where I play, PCs go down a lot more in early levels, where this is much less of an issue. I recently had what is pretty rare for us: a level 7 character down while fighting a pretty powerful encounter against hill giants, but it never came down to Healing Word vs. Big Boom. They podonked the giants and stopped the bleeding with a healer's kit (or a Medicine check, I forget).
Which is another reason it's very important to know your table, and the context you will be playing in. Your choice of character can be very much affected.

Edit: It may be worth pointing out that as you get higher level boom spells, you also get higher level heal spells. So Healing Word vs. Boom isn't really the choice by lvl 11. You could also cast Heal.

[PeteNutButter]

Not a single time. :smallsmile:
Where I play, PCs go down a lot more in early levels, where this is much less of an issue. I recently had what is pretty rare for us: a level 7 character down while fighting a pretty powerful encounter against hill giants, but it never came down to Healing Word vs. Big Boom. They podonked the giants and stopped the bleeding with a healer's kit (or a Medicine check, I forget).
Which is another reason it's very important to know your table, and the context you will be playing in. Your choice of character can be very much affected.

Edit: It may be worth pointing out that as you get higher level boom spells, you also get higher level heal spells. So Healing Word vs. Boom isn't really the choice by lvl 11. You could also cast Heal.

If you don't see PCs going down in combat regularly, don't play a healer. Where I play if a combat doesn't bring down at least one PC it's considered a joke.

If you are never in a position where you have to choose between offense or defense with your back against a wall, then of course you aren't going to value defense. Just murder everything and go on your whistling way.

EDIT: Also the existence of higher level healing spells doesn't negate it's uses. If 2 PCs go down to some AoE like a big breath weapon, you can Heal the tank to bring him back to fighting shape (something mass cure wounds wouldn't do), and also Balm another to get them on their feet. The simple fact is the absolute deadliest of fights will be won or lost on the edge of action economy. Dream Druid has a big advantage there.