Picking up Conan the Barbarian!

[Cikomyr]

So a friend gave me his copies of two Conan compilation books. I can't remember the names, but i do remember the individual stories, so.. hey, lets talk about them!

1- Chronicles of Hyperborea.

This is a rather boring read, but at least it sets the stage for the stories. The occasional character-driven historical events were interesting tho. Overall, i feel this should have had more maps to track the migration and splitting of people. Hell, i cant remember if the Cimmerians are Atlanteans or Picts. Or who founded the central Kingdoms.

2- the Phoenix and the Sword

Ah! This story was fun. I especially loved Conan's ruminations about the powerlessness he feels being a King; unable to strike at his enemies like he used to.

The dream Conan had was.. okay, I guess. I hope the mythical priest of his dream has a comeback, but i doubt it. Conan doesnt seem to be the serie with a cohesive overarching narrative.

I especially found hilarious the whole ring-finding business. That scene is probably the thing that undermined this story the most. "Hey, let me vent about my backstory and why i need a magical ring that was stolen from me 20 years ago!" "Sorry, i wasnt listening to your rambling. Take a look at this shiny ring i bought from a thief 20 years ago!"

The fight scene was brutal and to the point. Still not sure why Conan's sword broke tho.

3- the Scarlet Citadel

So far my favourite story. Its epic, it has so much goodies. I find it hilariously anachronistic that Conan's kingdom had Knights when its set prior to our earliest civilizations.

The evil wizard was cool, albeit a bit underdevelopped. everything in his prison was a treat to read; from the Giant Serpent, the Hellplant, etc..

Pelias was a fantastic arrival to the story. I really dig his introduction dialogue with Conan "Who are you?" "I am Conan, King of Aquilonia!" "eh, what happened to Numentides?" "I strangled him the night i took the throne" "...apologies your Majesty"

Really shows that Pelias has some sense, wisdom and a healthy gift for observation. I wish we get to see Pelias more in the future. I get he's not necessarily a good guy, but he aint a bad guy either. He is on the Blue/Orange moraliry scale, but that doesn't mean his agenda and Conan's cant coincide at times.

Probably the worst part of this story was Aquilonian civil war that erupted. It interrupts the flow of the story with Conan at an unopportune time. I think we should have had breaks to the Conan story to see what was happening in Aquilonia, to see his kingdom break appart while he is away.

Still, loved it.

4- the Tower of the Elephant

Oohhh.. i see which story got adapted in the Schwarzenegger movie!

This was a fun adventuring sequence, with a magnificient twist ending. The story takes a 270 degree turn right at the end, and doesnt look back. For the first time I get to appreciate the scale of the Magical Cosmos Howard has put in his stories. Come on; a Race of Ancient Beings travelling from another planets and ruling as benevolent gods for an Age? Thats awesome.

I am not sure how big the spider was. On one hand, it is said its as big as a pig, but on another hand, Conan kills it with one chest of jewels. Maybe the Chest was full of gold and thus really, really heavy.


Overall, i am enjoying my adventure in Hyperbore so far. I hope Howard managed to add more overall archs in his stories rather than limit himself to fully self-contained shorts.

I especially appreciate how intellectual Conan is. He isn't stupid. He is self-reflective. He sometimes dismiss abstract thinking as unpractical, but does not dismiss it with ridicule and acknowledge that it can hold great power and wisdom. Hell, he even gives a chance to the High Priest to explain himself when the High Priest rudely tells him to shup up.

In short, he is completely different from the stereotype short-tempered dimwitted caricature the Barbarian archetype has becomed over the year.

[Saph]

I especially appreciate how intellectual Conan is. He isn't stupid. He is self-reflective. He sometimes dismiss abstract thinking as unpractical, but does not dismiss it with ridicule and acknowledge that it can hold great power and wisdom. Hell, he even gives a chance to the High Priest to explain himself when the High Priest rudely tells him to shup up.

In short, he is completely different from the stereotype short-tempered dimwitted caricature the Barbarian archetype has becomed over the year.

I only ever read a few Conan stories, and the one I owned when I was much younger was called Conan the Rebel (which I don't think was written by Howard) but that aspect of his character always stuck with me, too. There's a point in the story where another character comes to Conan and tries to trick him with a routine that's fooled a couple of other guys. It doesn't work, and when she demands to know why he doesn't believe her, Conan quickly and accurately points out all the inconsistencies in her story, before finishing with something along the lines of "I don't know why you city people think barbarians are morons, we need our wits more than you do!"

[Mikeavelli]

Definitely check out Queen of the Black Coast, its one of the best early Conan stories, and perfectly sums up his character in one passage:


"Well, last night in a tavern, a captain in the king's guard offered violence to the sweetheart of a young soldier, who naturally ran him through. But it seems there is some cursed law against killing guardsmen, and the boy and his girl fled away. It was bruited about that I was seen with them, and so today I was haled into court, and a judge asked me where the lad had gone. I replied that since he was a friend of mine, I could not betray him. Then the court waxed wroth, and the judge talked a great deal about my duty to the state, and society, and other things I did not understand, and bade me tell where my friend had flown. By this time I was becoming wrathful myself, for I had explained my position.

But I choked my ire and held my peace, and the judge squalled that I had shown contempt for the court, and that I should be hurled into a dungeon to rot until I betrayed my friend. So then, seeing they were all mad, I drew my sword and cleft the judge's skull; then I cut my way out of the court, and seeing the high constable's stallion tied near by, I rode for the wharfs, where I thought to find a ship bound for foreign parts."

[Yora]

The Scarlet Citadel is still one of my favorites. Though I am probably the only person who didn't like Queen of the Black Coast.

But the best thing about Conan is that there aren't any real stinkers.

[2D8HP]

Awesome!

I recently read

The Phoenix on the Sword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556437-2D8HP-re-reads-Conan)


and I'm in the middle of reading


The People of the Black Circle (https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_People_of_the_Black_Circle).


Welcome to the Hyborian age!

[Thrudd]

Howard's Conan is amazing. Unfortunately you will be disappointed RE overarching narrative. There is none, and I don't believe there are any recurring characters, either. All just passersby. Every story is self-contained.

PS- Cimmerians are meant to be descendants of Atlantis. Picts are contemporaneous with Conan's lifetime.

[Corvus]

Howard's Conan stories are among my favourite to read.

I first came across Conan back in the 80's in the comic books and then Arnold's movies before actually reading them.

Lets just say that if you stripped the names from the Arnold movies, you wouldn't know him for Conan. Physically he is nothing like book Conan, as book Conan was dark haired and, while strong, built more like a panther than a bear. And he was no 'dumb' barbarian either. He was cunning, he knew multiple languages, he knew the value of wearing armour, including full plate. Jason Momoa's version is much more accurate to the book Conan.

Unfortunately Howard was one of those tortured genius types who was very prolific for a very short period of time and then killed himself aged just 30. Besides the 21 completed Conan stories (and a number of other incomplete ones), he wrote a huge number of other ones as well.

Some of the attitudes in them may appear a little dated when viewed with modern sensibilities, but they were written back in the 30s.

As stated, there isn't really any over-arcing story beyond Conan going out and having adventures. A very few characters do get a couple of mentions, but that is about it.

It is interesting to note that Thoth-Amon, who appears in The Phoenix on the Blade, has morphed into the main villain in the Conan mythos despite only appearing physically in the one story (and alluded to in two others), never having actually met Conan and not actually being the main villain of the piece in TPotB.

As to being anachronistic, not really. It is meant to be a medievalish level of society before the age crashed hard into the stone age and the world was reshaped, only for civilisation to slowly emerge once more. It wasn't the first time it happened either. There was a previous age to it, during which Atlantis existed (and was the setting for one of his other characters) and it also crashed so hard that the Atlanteans reverted to being apemen before regaining their humanity and becoming the Cimmerians.

The Tower of the Elephant is one of my favourites - and even is a little lovecraftian in nature (which isn't the only time in Conan mythos). It isn't surprising given that Howard and Lovecraft were friends and corespondents and drew inspiration from each other's works.

My other main favourite (if pressed to choose) is Beyond the Black River. Conan isn't really the main character in it, but I won't say more than that so I don't spoil the story for those who haven't read it.

I need to re-read the stories again so I can join the reading party.

I have to say that Howard's Conan has been a big influence on a short fiction series I have been writing - along with a bit of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. But mostly Conan.

[2D8HP]

[...]The Tower of the Elephant is one of my favourites - and even is a little lovecraftian in nature (which isn't the only time in Conan mythos). It isn't surprising given that Howard and Lovecraft were friends and corespondents and drew inspiration from each other's works[...]


"Tower of the Elephant" is a gem, and the mention of it brings to mind something REH wrote in one of his letters:

"All my stories... are based on the fundamental lore or legend that this world was inhabited at one time or another by a race who, in practicing black magic, lost their foothold and were expelled, yet live on outside ever ready to take possession of this earth again."

Now that is a proper setting!


[...]I have to say that Howard's Conan has been a big influence on a short fiction series I have been writing - along with a bit of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. But mostly Conan.


Oh!

I love Leiber's F&tGM!

I hope to read your work. :smile:

[Corvus]

Oh!

I love Leiber's F&tGM!

I hope to read your work. :smile:

I've got 10 stories of varying length of that series up on my website to read at the moment, and as many more that I haven't put up yet. Sadly I haven't had a chance to do much with it for a while - I really need to revamp the whole thing and start over at some point.

The Deeds of Peregrine and Blade (https://talesfromathousandworlds.com/the-deeds-of-peregrine-and-blade/)

Possibly the two best of those are The City in Shadows and Dreams of Days to Come, though those that I think are the best of the series so far haven't yet seen light of day.

[Cikomyr]

After the Elephant Tower is Black Colossus

So far its a bit boring. Just the story of a thief who wants to get in a cursed tomb. No Conan

[Scarlet Knight]

I did not care for Tower of the Elephant, probably because it felt Lovecraftian.

I confess I starting reading Conan due to the Frank Frazetta cover art. I loved adventure, but no Robin Hood tale had damsels in distress that looked like that! Right age and the right time, I guess.

For other fans, the Frazetta family has a museum in Pennsylvania that's worth the admission if you're in the area.

[Bohandas]

"Tower of the Elephant" is a gem, and the mention of it brings to mind something REH wrote in one of his letters:

"All my stories... are based on the fundamental lore or legend that this world was inhabited at one time or another by a race who, in practicing black magic, lost their foothold and were expelled, yet live on outside ever ready to take possession of this earth again."

Now that is a proper setting!
As stated there it's basically the same thing as the premise from the Cthulhu Mythos stories. Which is of course unsurprising as, IIRC, Howard and Lovecraft knew each other and would bounce ideas off of each other

[2D8HP]

As stated there it's basically the same thing as the premise from the Cthulhu Mythos stories. Which is of course unsurprising as, IIRC, Howard and Lovecraft knew each other and would bounce ideas off of each other


Fritz Leiber (who's by then frail hand I had the privilege of shaking - shameless name drop) also corresponded with Lovecraft, and the first Swords & Sorcery story after Howard's, Catherine Leigh Moore's 1934 Black God’s Kiss (https://www.blackgate.com/jirel-of-joiry-the-mother-of-us-all/) was also published in Weird Tales, like Howard and Lovecraft, and the Mythos/Swords & Sorcery link continued at least to Karl Edward Wagner's 1976 The Legion from the Shadow, (if you don't want to count the 2014 anthology Sword & Mythos, which is in my left hand, while I type with my right).

[Yora]

I'm very much interested in what you think of that book. I have pretty strong opinions on it.

[Mordar]

Howard's Conan is amazing. Unfortunately you will be disappointed RE overarching narrative. There is none, and I don't believe there are any recurring characters, either. All just passersby. Every story is self-contained.

PS- Cimmerians are meant to be descendants of Atlantis. Picts are contemporaneous with Conan's lifetime.

There is a great (if you like this kind of thing) essay in The Coming of Conan (the first of the three Del Rey compilations that republishes each of the Howard stories in original order (written, not meant to be a chronological depiction of Conan's life) and original form) that lays out the history of the world, identifying the migrations of its people and speaking to who came from where when. It speaks to the depth of the material and consideration paid to the world. As I recall, the Picts, while as you indicate are certainly alive and well (and very very dangerous) in the time of Conan, I *think* they are the "truer" heirs to Atlantis...at least in so far as they are descended from people living in Atlantis while the Cimmerians were descended from people who had previously left Atlantis to live elsewhere (English vs. Americans, perhaps in some sense).


Howard's Conan stories are among my favourite to read.

I first came across Conan back in the 80's in the comic books and then Arnold's movies before actually reading them.

Lets just say that if you stripped the names from the Arnold movies, you wouldn't know him for Conan. Physically he is nothing like book Conan, as book Conan was dark haired and, while strong, built more like a panther than a bear. And he was no 'dumb' barbarian either. He was cunning, he knew multiple languages, he knew the value of wearing armour, including full plate. Jason Momoa's version is much more accurate to the book Conan.

I have to disagree with a portion of this...while we know Arnold was too big for the part (and the hair color is kind of off, but it wasn't Fabio blonde, at least), Conan still had incredible physical strength and moved like a panther. His mass was still much greater than an average man. But perhaps more importantly...the de Laurentis Conan actually showed him receiving an academic education ("Language and writing were also made available, the poetry of Kitai, the philosophy of Sung...") and he was shown as an able student in martial and philosophical matters. So, while we may have felt Arnold's delivery was lacking and his accent required script work, I don't believe the character is portrayed as dumb. I really do like the portions with Subotai showing him the ropes of "real" civilization though, and to a lesser extent Valeria. It reminded me of a grittier version of Roman Holiday :smallwink:

Now don't get me started on Conan the Destroyer though...ugn.


As stated there it's basically the same thing as the premise from the Cthulhu Mythos stories. Which is of course unsurprising as, IIRC, Howard and Lovecraft knew each other and would bounce ideas off of each other

As has been mentioned elsewhere, there was a wonderful array of correspondence between many of the authors I feel were important to pulp fiction and my experience with it. I would dearly love to read the letters, and several are saved in collections in Texas. One day, I'll get there! My impression from what snippets I have seen is that Howard reached out to Lovecraft looking to be collegial, but also to be mentored by Lovecraft.

- M

[Cikomyr]

Hey, I love the original Arny movie. The music is absolutely fantastic, the violence isnt some fancy schmancy Flynnying about; its muscled men swinging swords brutally. The movie is aware of Schwarzenegger's limitation as an actor and plays around it, sometimes to great comedic effect.

The stories are fun, but its obvious Howard was a bit of a product of his time regarding the fairer sex and race relations

[2D8HP]

I'm very much interested in what you think of that book. I have pretty strong opinions on it.

Sword & Mythos?

I've only read some of the essays that are in the back so far.

I was planning to finish The People of the Black Circle first, but if you're real eager, give the word and I'll switch.



Now don't get me started on Conan the Destroyer though...ugn.


:eek:

What, you don't like Conan the Destroyer?

In the '80's I ripped it off was inspired by it along with Young Sherlock Holmes for my most successful campaign!



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvPLtawtKc

At least it wasn't Hawk the Slayer, Red Sonja or The Sword and the Sorcerer


:amused:
(Not kidding about the campaign, I changed it slightly, and used it for both Call of C'thullu and Dungeons & Dragons, movies that your players don't remember are a goldmine!)

[FreddyNoNose]

As a kid, I was into science fiction then I read the hobbit. I liked it but then I got Conan and wow, I loved them. I always have liked when someone can write a great short story that packs a lot of adventure in them. I eschew the modern stuff that is more like soap operas to me.

Rather than list a bunch of books, just look at the DMG 1st edition for suggested reading.

[Mordar]

:eek:

What, you don't like Conan the Destroyer?

In the '80's I ripped it off was inspired by it along with Young Sherlock Holmes for my most successful campaign!



At least it wasn't Hawk the Slayer, Red Sonja or The Sword and the Sorcerer


:amused:
(Not kidding about the campaign, I changed it slightly, and used it for both Call of C'thullu and Dungeons & Dragons, movies that your players don't remember are a goldmine!)

Based primarily on the answer to this question: How long would Howard's Conan have put up with Malak? (You know the D&D movie? It was pretty bad...but would have been much better if the Marlon Wayans character had been played straight and not of a lampoon of Malak, intentional or otherwise).

I *totally* used a sequence from Destroyer for a Gen Con game I ran in 1985 (or maybe 1986)...and the guy trapped in the mirror room didn't recognize it at all. At least he survived :smallamused: Not at all surprising that I wasn't the only one to borrow from the movie...that I liked back then.

Now, if you're going to start the "worse" reference game...Beastmaster and sequels (that inspired many a ranger/druid character), Krull (all the letters of Kull and then some!) and the sad cyclops, Deathstalker (with Barbi Benton!) and Dragonslayer. Yup, all of these and more found their way into games I played/ran. And to make it tie back to the original topic...all spring from a horrible mutant bastardization of Conan.

- M

[2D8HP]

...Deathstalker (with Barbi Benton!)...

Deathstalker?

I... I don't remember that one!

:redface:

I feel shame.

[Thrudd]

There is a great (if you like this kind of thing) essay in The Coming of Conan (the first of the three Del Rey compilations that republishes each of the Howard stories in original order (written, not meant to be a chronological depiction of Conan's life) and original form) that lays out the history of the world, identifying the migrations of its people and speaking to who came from where when. It speaks to the depth of the material and consideration paid to the world. As I recall, the Picts, while as you indicate are certainly alive and well (and very very dangerous) in the time of Conan, I *think* they are the "truer" heirs to Atlantis...at least in so far as they are descended from people living in Atlantis while the Cimmerians were descended from people who had previously left Atlantis to live elsewhere (English vs. Americans, perhaps in some sense).

- M
Yes, I had those compilations at one point. I let someone borrow it and never got it back a number of years ago. I do remember the Picts occupying a coastal/marshy region to the south of Cimmeria, it makes sense they would also have connection to Atlantis that was meant to be off the west coast.

Side note: I always imagined that the wild looking scout guy with the blue face paint in Conan the Barbarian film was meant to be a Pict mercenary. I love that movie. I feel similar to you about Destroyer- just a big let down compared to the first.

[Mordar]

Side note: I always imagined that the wild looking scout guy with the blue face paint in Conan the Barbarian film was meant to be a Pict mercenary. I love that movie. I feel similar to you about Destroyer- just a big let down compared to the first.

That would appear to be the case as the cast listing shows "Pictish Scout" (as played by Franco Columbu).

- M

[Fyraltari]

iPelias was a fantastic arrival to the story. I really dig his introduction dialogue with Conan "Who are you?" "I am Conan, King of Aquilonia!" "eh, what happened to Numentides?" "I strangled him the night i took the throne" "...apologies your Majesty"

Really shows that Pelias has some sense, wisdom and a healthy gift for observation. I wish we get to see Pelias more in the future. I get he's not necessarily a good guy, but he aint a bad guy either. He is on the Blue/Orange moraliry scale, but that doesn't mean his agenda and Conan's cant coincide at times.

I reaaly like the Conan short stories as well and Pelias is hands down my favorite secondary charcters.


Howard's Conan is amazing. Unfortunately you will be disappointed RE overarching narrative. There is none, and I don't believe there are any recurring characters, either. All just passersby. Every story is self-contained.
Don't Scarlet Citadel/Phoenix on the Sword and Hour of the Dragons have some overlap? I think I remember a general of Conan's being in two of those.
*They do allude to some characters that have previously appeared sometimes. Toth-Amn of course, but I think one battle is described as being immortalized by a bard and that bard being one of the conspirators from Phoenix.
Also I think I remember reading on TvTropes that Conan ends one story heading to one city with a new friend and starts another fleeing that very city after the execution of an "accomplice" of his whose description matches said friend.


But the best thing about Conan is that there aren't any real stinkers.
Well there's the one in subsaharian Africa (or whatever is the Hyborian equivalent) where he saves a generic woman 'cause she's white and therefore important and kills a generic monster. It would have been mediocre without the racism, it's just painful with it.

But hey, at least Howard was not Lovecraft.

[Corvus]

Don't Scarlet Citadel/Phoenix on the Sword and Hour of the Dragons have some overlap? I think I remember a general of Conan's being in two of those.

Hour of the Dragon is more or less a rehashing of the plot of Scarlet Citadel, but novel length and expanded upon.


Well there's the one in subsaharian Africa (or whatever is the Hyborian equivalent) where he saves a generic woman 'cause she's white and therefore important and kills a generic monster. It would have been mediocre without the racism, it's just painful with it.

But hey, at least Howard was not Lovecraft.

Jewels of Gwahlur?

[Thrudd]

I reaaly like the Conan short stories as well and Pelias is hands down my favorite secondary charcters.


Don't Scarlet Citadel/Phoenix on the Sword and Hour of the Dragons have some overlap? I think I remember a general of Conan's being in two of those.
*They do allude to some characters that have previously appeared sometimes. Toth-Amn of course, but I think one battle is described as being immortalized by a bard and that bard being one of the conspirators from Phoenix.
Also I think I remember reading on TvTropes that Conan ends one story heading to one city with a new friend and starts another fleeing that very city after the execution of an "accomplice" of his whose description matches said friend.


Well there's the one in subsaharian Africa (or whatever is the Hyborian equivalent) where he saves a generic woman 'cause she's white and therefore important and kills a generic monster. It would have been mediocre without the racism, it's just painful with it.

But hey, at least Howard was not Lovecraft.
There might be a couple places where a similar sounding character might be mentioned or referred to in another story. But they don't appear or participate in the story. Scarlet Citadel and Phoenix on the Sword both take place in the period when Conan is king, but they don't overlap narratively. It isn't even necessarily clear which one chronologically comes first, based only on reading the stories.
Hour of the Dragon is actually a novelized retelling and expansion of Scarlet Citadel combined with some of the other short stories, with a number of alterations. I wouldn't consider it part of the same continuity, really, since it is so similar to the earlier short story, (even though officially it has been placed in the chronology). So they overlap in the sense that they depict the identical situation of king Conan being captured by a sorcerer, put in a dungeon with monsters, becoming allies with a rival sorcerer, just with the names and details changed.

L Sprague DeCamp and Lin Carter wrote new Conan stories and adapted and edited a lot of Conan stories from Howard's incomplete notes, and I'm not counting any of those. They made a concerted effort to establish a chronology for Conan and fill in the gaps to depict more continuity. But Howard's stories themselves are a lot less connected. I'm having a hard time thinking of any instance of a character being mentioned twice - if there are any, they could be counted on one hand.

[Corvus]

I'm having a hard time thinking of any instance of a character being mentioned twice - if there are any, they could be counted on one hand.

Thoth-Amon is alluded to in a couple of others I think (must go and reread the stories again.)

Rinaldo the poet whom Conan kills in Phoenix is mentioned by name in another story as well.

I seem to recall that a couple of his aides when he was king are mentioned again as well.

But that is probably about it.

[Fyraltari]

Jewels of Gwahlur?

Vale of the lost women.

[Metahuman1]

Regards the Howard/Lovecraft matter.




There are similarity's, but you can also see one fundamental difference in the though process for them as well.

Lovecraft postulates that when people see something they can't explain, fear instantly kills them or breaks them, or they at a minimum will always fail to find a way to fight back effectively and survive because humanity is small and weak and pathetic and the universe gives not a care.


Howard postulates that when people see something they can't explain, It is possible for them to master there instincts toward fighting, and to manage it effectively. That we are the top predators on the planet for a reason, and that sure, not every human will win every battle, but those who know what it is to live hard and fight for there lives already wouldn't be THAT much more hard pressed than they might be against wild animals or particularly cruel and well equipped human foes.

[Cikomyr]

So The Black Colossus turned out way more interesting after the Prologue (the story about the thief was just a setup).

The story is damn good, albeit the story confuses me at times.


By the way, what were the Ancient Stygian? Isnt it said they werent humans?

[Morty]

I forget which story it's in, but I think my favourite part of Conan is when a sorcerer starts threatening him and gloating, and he just throws his sword and kills him.

[Metahuman1]

So The Black Colossus turned out way more interesting after the Prologue (the story about the thief was just a setup).

The story is damn good, albeit the story confuses me at times.


By the way, what were the Ancient Stygian? Isnt it said they werent humans?

It has been a long time since I read Howards Conan, but if I recall correctly,

Ancient Stygian were human, technically, but so prone to the most vial and depraved practices any mind could conceive of, and so frequently into the practices of the unnatural and wicked black magics of the world, frequently among if not the foulest practitioners, that there frequently warped to the point that it might be a stretch to call them humans physically, and certainly there so horrible that calling them human in terms of morality/spirit is an even worse stretch.

Again, been ages, so, take with a healthy dose of salt.






Also, lemme know when you get to Dusk of Zuel. (I may be spelling the title wrong.). I'm particularly fond of that one among one's you've not gotten too yet. =)

[Corvus]

Xuthal of the Dusk. Also called The Slithering Shadow. Should be the next story in the list.

Black Colossus is the story, chronologically, that sets Conan on the path to kingship (even though we already know he becomes one.) It is where he steps up from being just a common mercenary and commands for the first time.

[Mordar]

By the way, what were the Ancient Stygian? Isnt it said they werent humans?

Like Metahuman1, it has been a while...but as I recall:

The ancient Stygians were humans of an earlier age, not unlike the Atlanteans. And they, like virtually all wizards and magicians, are bad. Why?

REH had a dim view on modern times, feeling that technology and civilization had emasculated modern (at least early 1900s) man. He wrote of people in the old west, in the Hyborian and Atlantean ages, in the most rough and tumble of jobs or pursuits (boxing, for instance) because he felt those were vital, real men*. The rise of civilization leading inevitably to a corruption (emasculation) and then apocalypse reverting the world to a more basic state is a repeated motif in his work. Who was to blame for this? Partly the nature of man, but more specifically the desire for power derived from wealth or unmanly means like technology (sorcery and black magic). It is these men that cause the ends of ages, and they need to be cast down.

That some of them survive into the next age and serve as boogeymen only reinforces this idea that these are the powers to be feared, but also reviled and hated. That they are unnatural and serve only to undo the good of man.

* - Not necessarily in the "macho" sense, but perhaps more in the "doing as man was intended, fighting for life and struggling with and alongside nature (in a good way)

Not too hard to see how that could lead him down a pretty dark spiral.

- M

[Yora]

REH had a dim view on modern times, feeling that technology and civilization had emasculated modern (at least early 1900s) man. He wrote of people in the old west, in the Hyborian and Atlantean ages, in the most rough and tumble of jobs or pursuits (boxing, for instance) because he felt those were vital, real men*. The rise of civilization leading inevitably to a corruption (emasculation) and then apocalypse reverting the world to a more basic state is a repeated motif in his work. Who was to blame for this? Partly the nature of man, but more specifically the desire for power derived from wealth or unmanly means like technology (sorcery and black magic). It is these men that cause the ends of ages, and they need to be cast down.

It's apparently a bit more complicated than this. I'm not familiar with all his writings myself, but I've come across a couple of biographers who described his views more as "save barbarianism is the natural state of things and civilization is always doomed to fail. But this doesn't make it a good thing." Civilization is the better thing when you can have it. Unfortunately we won't be able to keep it.

That's also a somewhat gloomy outlook.

Though I have to say this ended up being the underlying basis for all of my own worldbuilding. This can be taken into very interesting directions.

Here's one example of an examination of his nonfiction writing on this matter. (https://onanunderwood5.blogspot.de/2015/08/barbarism-and-civilization-in-letters.html) I particularly like this gem;


"I have no idyllic view of barbarism—as near as I can learn it's a grim, bloody, ferocious and loveless condition. I have no patience with the depiction of the barbarian of any race as a stately, god-like child of Nature, endowed with strange wisdom and speaking in measured and sonorous phrases. Bah! My conception of a barbarian is very different"

Overall, my impression is that Howard really loved the fantasy of the mighty barbarian warrior. But he didn't believe it. He is a really interesting men. It gets a lot more interesting when you look deeper in his elaborations on race and gender. As a person from the 30s he uses a vocabularly that is today coded as discriminatory and he was cranking out stories for the mass market to support his terminally sick mother. His stories don't paint the full picture of the man.
For anyone interested in this aspect of Howard, I recommend reading "Pigeons from Hell", which unfortunately is misleading advertising. But it's still a really good story that adds interesting new facets to the macho Texan from the 30s.

[Mordar]

It's apparently a bit more complicated than this. I'm not familiar with all his writings myself, but I've come across a couple of biographers who described his views more as "save barbarianism is the natural state of things and civilization is always doomed to fail. But this doesn't make it a good thing." Civilization is the better thing when you can have it. Unfortunately we won't be able to keep it.

That's also a somewhat gloomy outlook.

Though I have to say this ended up being the underlying basis for all of my own worldbuilding. This can be taken into very interesting directions.

Here's one example of an examination of his nonfiction writing on this matter. (https://onanunderwood5.blogspot.de/2015/08/barbarism-and-civilization-in-letters.html) I particularly like this gem;



Overall, my impression is that Howard really loved the fantasy of the mighty barbarian warrior. But he didn't believe it. He is a really interesting men. It gets a lot more interesting when you look deeper in his elaborations on race and gender. As a person from the 30s he uses a vocabularly that is today coded as discriminatory and he was cranking out stories for the mass market to support his terminally sick mother. His stories don't paint the full picture of the man.
For anyone interested in this aspect of Howard, I recommend reading "Pigeons from Hell", which unfortunately is misleading advertising. But it's still a really good story that adds interesting new facets to the macho Texan from the 30s.

I think perhaps I misled you...I didn't mean to suggest that Conan was necessarily his ideal or that he was holding the bloody sword as the pinnacle of manliness, but something more like Hemingway without the meanness and hate. The opportunities for man to be man are limited by the confines of the age. There is also messaging in the ascension of Conan from barbarian to King of Aquilonia, the most civilized of nations.

REH does have a lot of solid horror stories (another plug for a Del Rey compilation...it was the first non-Conan stuff I got). Some clear influences from Lovecraft and regional legend, but here are you discussing...

That the cause of the "curse" being the mistreatment of a woman of color?

- M

[hamishspence]

It's apparently a bit more complicated than this. I'm not familiar with all his writings myself, but I've come across a couple of biographers who described his views more as "save barbarianism is the natural state of things and civilization is always doomed to fail. But this doesn't make it a good thing." Civilization is the better thing when you can have it. Unfortunately we won't be able to keep it.


TV Tropes as I recall, did suggest that Conan dislikes Cimmeria itself - and actually prefers the comforts of civilisation, even if his strength comes to some degree from his early upbringing there.

[Cikomyr]

Oh, by the way, do we ever learn anything about Conan/Cimmeria? Like.. is Conan a standard Cimmerian, or he is stronger/weaker than the average?

[hamishspence]

Oh, by the way, do we ever learn anything about Conan/Cimmeria? Like.. is Conan a standard Cimmerian, or he is stronger/weaker than the average?

I think "breaking a wild bull's neck barehanded" may be some kind of adolescent rite in Cimmeria:

Shadows in Zamboula:


“You fool!” he all but whispered. “I think you never saw a man from the West before. Did you deem yourself strong, because you were able to twist the heads off civilized folk, poor weaklings with muscles like rotten string? Hell! Break the neck of a wild Cimmerian bull before you call yourself strong. I did that, before I was a full-grown man – like this!' And with a savage wrench he twisted Baal-pteor's head around until the ghastly face leered over the left shoulder, and the vertebrae snapped like a rotten branch.

[Yora]

I think perhaps I misled you...I didn't mean to suggest that Conan was necessarily his ideal or that he was holding the bloody sword as the pinnacle of manliness, but something more like Hemingway without the meanness and hate. The opportunities for man to be man are limited by the confines of the age. There is also messaging in the ascension of Conan from barbarian to King of Aquilonia, the most civilized of nations.
Conan is complex with a lot of room for personal interpretation. Which makes him so enjoyable and is probably the reason for his continuing popularity.


Some clear influences from Lovecraft and regional legend, but here are you discussing...

That the cause of the "curse" being the mistreatment of a woman of color?


It's the inciting incident. But in my recollection the story goes much further than that. I see the haunted mansion not as a horrifying exception, but as representative of the entire environment from which it came.

Sadly, this is the end of literary analysis and discussion of history that is allowed here. Even art and science have their restrictions.

But I want to repeat. Everyone who finds some stuff in Howards stories somewhat dodgy should do some reading on his corespondence on the unmentionable topics. There's more to it than his use of 1930s vocabulary might make some people believe.

[Mordar]

Oh, by the way, do we ever learn anything about Conan/Cimmeria? Like.. is Conan a standard Cimmerian, or he is stronger/weaker than the average?

I believe him to be above average among his countrymen, but not, perhaps so far as Arnold is above the average modern American guy.


It's the inciting incident. But in my recollection the story goes much further than that. I see the haunted mansion not as a horrifying exception, but as representative of the entire environment from which it came.

Indeed, but I just wanted to be sure we were on the same page, mentionable or otherwise :smallwink:

- M

[Fyraltari]

Oh, by the way, do we ever learn anything about Conan/Cimmeria? Like.. is Conan a standard Cimmerian, or he is stronger/weaker than the average?

If I remember correctly, Conan dolted out of Cimmeria the first chance he got to join an Aesir (or Vanir? I never remember) clan whose Vikingesque culture was much more in line with his natural dispostions. He is with them in Daughter of the Frost Giant which is when we see Conan at his youngest and most morally dirty.

We never visit Cimmeria and he rarely talks about it, but from the various hints we can gather that:

It is a near-barren land of ridiculously steep hills and mountains with frequent storms and general bad weather. The Cimmerians are a gloomy people that live waiting for their death in combat (their only songs are funeral chants) wether amongst themselves or their neighbours.

Conan mentions once that he used to be part of a Cimmerian army and despite his young age, warriors told his name with respect around the campfires.

So, basically he is a physically (and most probably mentally) above average cultural rebel.

[Metahuman1]

Xuthal of the Dusk. Also called The Slithering Shadow. Should be the next story in the list.

Black Colossus is the story, chronologically, that sets Conan on the path to kingship (even though we already know he becomes one.) It is where he steps up from being just a common mercenary and commands for the first time.

Thanks. I always liked the story. And it's a great exemplar of Robert E. Howard managing to balance high concept, horror and action. And again, I am fond of the idea that Howards universe has Lovecraftian Horror's, it's just that unlike in Lovecraft, you can beat them until they decide your far more grief than your worth and leave you alone if not outright kill them.



Bonus points for this one having one of my favorite Conan girlfriends.

[Iruka]

I remember from the blurb in the Wheel of Times books that Robert Jordan also wrote some Conan books. Are they any good?

[Mordar]

I remember from the blurb in the Wheel of Times books that Robert Jordan also wrote some Conan books. Are they any good?

Your mileage may vary. There are those Conan fans who hate anything not Howard's original and untainted work (which in several ways is understandable...it seems some times the spirit of Conan is diluted by people lacking Howard's personal struggles and ideals (and skill), writing him as merely an adventuring bada$$ and according to many doing so poorly), some Conan fans who are more lenient and accepting of at least some of the adaptation and editing of de Camp and Carter in their "pastiches" and less so subsequent attempts by other more "modern" writers, and those Conan fans that are tolerant of even the more recent attempts by those newcomers to pick up the mantle.

From my recollection, the Jordan books were...okay. Nothing remarkable, and I don't think I even was moved to get all of them, but I didn't hate them.

- M

[hamishspence]

I remember liking his version of Conan The Destroyer slightly more than the movie itself.

[Cikomyr]

The Black Colossus was a bit anticlimactic once the big war battle wad won.

The Slithering Shadow is.. interesting. The girl is annoying. But the mystery is fascinating.

[FreddyNoNose]

I remember from the blurb in the Wheel of Times books that Robert Jordan also wrote some Conan books. Are they any good?

IMO, they were horrible. But then again, I don't like Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time so...

[Yora]

Of all the Conan fan fiction, the Robert Jordan ones seem to be widely considered to be the best, by a good margin. Whether that makes them good by any other standard is a completely different question.

[Cikomyr]

Xuthal of the Dusk starts boring, but oh man.

Oh man.

It moves from Mystery, to Sci-Fi Sociology to Lovecraftian Abomination.

The whole city of people achieving post-scarcity economy, and yet this lack of need causes them to become sleeping degenerate is absolutely brilliant. Howard literally sent Conan in a Sci-fi Planet of the Week. And then the Shadowmonster slowly eating everyone from the dark.. oh man

The story was way too short for my taste. I wanted more!!! Damnit.

Next story starts on a boat with Conan about to take it over by sheer charisma. (Another trope subvertes!). It starts strong at least.

[Metahuman1]

Xuthal of the Dusk starts boring, but oh man.

Oh man.

It moves from Mystery, to Sci-Fi Sociology to Lovecraftian Abomination.

The whole city of people achieving post-scarcity economy, and yet this lack of need causes them to become sleeping degenerate is absolutely brilliant. Howard literally sent Conan in a Sci-fi Planet of the Week. And then the Shadowmonster slowly eating everyone from the dark.. oh man

The story was way too short for my taste. I wanted more!!! Damnit.

Next story starts on a boat with Conan about to take it over by sheer charisma. (Another trope subvertes!). It starts strong at least.

I know right?!!!! XD! This is one of the stores that really get's it across that there is a LOT more going on with Conan, his world, and Howards Writing than might at first glance meet the eye. Howard is, among other things here, calling out a flaw in Star Trek 30-some-odd years before Star Trek existed!

And I love that the lovecraftian Idea of a horror you don't recognize instantly driving you insane get's called out. After all, What does fear do to most people? Engages fight or flight response. And if you happen to either be in a situation, or be a sort of person (like, oh, I dunno, a veteran battle hardened and immensely talented warrior in his physical prime for instance?) who leans towards fight, you can treat it the same way your ancestors might have treated a cave bear. Dangerous. Not to be taken lightly.

But at the end of the day if your on your A Game and armed, you might well be able to kill it, or at the very least, hurt it enough before it kills you that it stops bothering and goes away.





Also, props to that particular Conan Girl Friend for at least TRYING to rescue herself and actually managing partial success, in a not entirely unreasonable or unrealistic fashion that was, honestly, somewhat reasonable, given the circumstances.

Sure, it's not a full success and Conan still ends up needing to get to her, but she made the freaking effort to contribute and it did wind up buying him the time he needed.

More props for managing to at least survive through the end of the story!

[Cikomyr]

Well, "society with no wants falls into despair-like boredom is straight up addressed in Banks' The Culture series. And their solution is, strangely, linked directly to what appears to be the Federation's solution.

The Culture has a drive of Integration, the Federation has a drive for Exploration.

[Metahuman1]

Well, "society with no wants falls into despair-like boredom is straight up addressed in Banks' The Culture series. And their solution is, strangely, linked directly to what appears to be the Federation's solution.

The Culture has a drive of Integration, the Federation has a drive for Exploration.

When was the culture written again? I'm, legit blanking on that. Probably sleep deprivation.



Also, right, but remember that part of it is getting inside not just the sci fi concept, but inside howards Head.

[Cikomyr]

When was the culture written again? I'm, legit blanking on that. Probably sleep deprivation.



Also, right, but remember that part of it is getting inside not just the sci fi concept, but inside howards Head.

Oh. Howard was before any of them, true!

But them, maybe Conan inspired these sci fi verses

[Whispering Goat]

I've never read the books, but I love the two Arnie movies. Yes, even the second one. I realize it's bad but it's still a fun watch because it's into that "funny bad." category. I have definitely been meaning to read the books though, because I find the setting to be really interesting. I would like to know more.

[russdm]

Picked up the stories in Kindle form and have the Arnold movies collection. And I saw the Jason Momoa Conan.

With that in place: I think Jason Momoa's Conan was trying to copy both Arnold Conan's. Most of the starting arc follows the same; father killed, object taken, Conan becomes a slave. Later, Conan goes free and does stuff, meets up with his lady friend where in this Conan movie is tied with the villains. Plus some attempts to get in the Dagoth fight. This Conan to me felt like a mashup of the previous Movies, along with some extra bits.

Conan the Destroyer: The cheezy Conan. The plot is very D&Dish, the like the first D&D movie; where the first pair meets up with the others then adds a black woman/elf later. I think this one was intended as an action flick straight up. Good fight scenes, a small amount of introspective moments.

What should be more noticeable is the fact some of the music has been completely recycled in from the first movie. If you watch the two back to back, it is really noticeable. There is some new music sure, but more of it is just copied over. But despite that, the copied over music actually works!

I loved the Arnold movies with it's movie version of Conan. I was less really thrilled with the Jason M Conan, mostly because I thought the plot/villain was poorly written/motivated. It wasn't clear what any of the details were and why exactly the Cimmerans were given the pieces of the mask or were involved. It felt too much like the script hadn't been polished before filming and unlike Conan the Destroyer, they weren't going for camp/campy, but were treating it seriously.

Read some of the stories and comics, along with Red Sonja comics. Enjoyed them quite a bit.

[Yora]

There are good reasons to say that Conan the Barbarian is not very good at being a Conan movie. But the 2011 movie isn't doing any better. And it's not even a good movie in its own right. It's just bad all around. And as much as they claimed it's not a remake of Conan the Barbarian, it very clearly is mostly based on that. More than on the Conan stories. It even has th same name. The whole thing about Conan's village having a world destroying artifact that Conan has to hunt down is completely unlike the style of Robert Howard.

[Cikomyr]

There are good reasons to say that Conan the Barbarian is not very good at being a Conan movie. But the 2011 movie isn't doing any better. And it's not even a good movie in its own right. It's just bad all around. And as much as they claimed it's not a remake of Conan the Barbarian, it very clearly is mostly based on that. More than on the Conan stories. It even has th same name. The whole thing about Conan's village having a world destroying artifact that Conan has to hunt down is completely unlike the style of Robert Howard.

Hell. The idea that the Cimmerians would see themselves as Noble Safekeepera of the World is even more stupid.

AFAIK, for all we know about the Cimmerians, "selfless" aint one of them

[Mith]

Just finished Phoenix in the Sword.

A lot of early D&D makes sense now.

[russdm]

Just finished Phoenix in the Sword.

A lot of early D&D makes sense now.

I thought it was named "Phoenix On the sword" myself.

[2D8HP]

Just finished Phoenix in the Sword.

A lot of early D&D makes sense now.


For even more understanding, I highly recommend:

Howard's The Tower of the Elephant (https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Tower_of_the_Elephant/Chapter_I)


Anderson's The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions


Leguin's A Wizard of Earthsea


Leiber's tales of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, starting with 1939's Two Sought Adventure/The Jewels in the Forest (http://www.baen.com/Chapters/ERBAEN0088/ERBAEN0088___2.htm)


Moore's Jirel of Joiry stories.


Smith's The Seven Geases (http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/192/the-seven-geases)

Tolkien's The Hobbit (in the unlikely event that you haven't read it)

and

Vance's The Dying Earth

[Mith]

I thought it was named "Phoenix On the sword" myself.

Typo on my part.


For even more understanding, I highly recommend:

Howard's The Tower of the Elephant (https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Tower_of_the_Elephant/Chapter_I)


Anderson's The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions


Leguin's A Wizard of Earthsea


Leiber's tales of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, starting with 1939's Two Sought Adventure/The Jewels in the Forest (http://www.baen.com/Chapters/ERBAEN0088/ERBAEN0088___2.htm)


Moore's Jirel of Joiry stories.


Smith's The Seven Geases (http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/192/the-seven-geases)

Tolkien's The Hobbit (in the unlikely event that you haven't read it)

and

Vance's The Dying Earth

Will be starting The Tower of the Elephant next. Will see about getting around to the others (I have read A Wizard of Earthsea and The Hobbit).

The main thing that stuck out to me from Conan was mainly how he goes from vagabond to king, and the language used remind me of both classic growth through adventuring (for me, that's Basic), the language used, and the idea that while a magic user and clever dungeon crafter can be a challenge to defeat, they can still fall to a determined, laconic scoundrel with a sharp sword.

[Metahuman1]

Typo on my part.



Will be starting The Tower of the Elephant next. Will see about getting around to the others (I have read A Wizard of Earthsea and The Hobbit).

The main thing that stuck out to me from Conan was mainly how he goes from vagabond to king, and the language used remind me of both classic growth through adventuring (for me, that's Basic), the language used, and the idea that while a magic user and clever dungeon crafter can be a challenge to defeat, they can still fall to a determined, laconic scoundrel with a sharp sword.

You might also wish to read, if your trying to get inside the heads of early D&D design, the Entire Elric Saga. Both the original short story's, the Quartet, and then some of the other stuff form the same author using the Eternal Champions/Champions Eternal mythos. Elric was of course created and written by Michal Moorcock.

And a bit of H.P. Lovecraft would not be amiss.

[Cikomyr]

So I just finished The Pool of the Black One.

Its a good horror story. A bit depressing of an ending, with 4/5th of the crew dying horribly, but at least some survived.

The female character was completely useless and zero agency. But then, I heard Howard put scandily clad women in his story to try to get his story on the magazine's monthly cover, as it meant a monetary bonus. And the magazine favored covers with scandily clad or naked women, as those sold more.

Gee, no idea why people think fantasy fans are sexists.

Anyway, overall good story. I found puzzling Conan's initial arrival on the ship. Its.. just..he comes from nowhere and proves he is not only an experienced seaman, he apparently has actual experience in gaining loyalty of a new crew and knows the ins and outs of taking over from another captain.

If thats the case.. when did he learned that? If he took over a ship previously, why doesnt he still have a ship?!

[Metahuman1]

I, think the idea is that that story comes after the one were he's on the Island with the girl, the pirates, and 2 separate flavors of monster, and also after The Queen Of The Black Coast. In fact I'm very sure of the second one.


As for writing women, eh, it was the thirty's and he was decades ahead of his time on multiple other fronts. Cut the man a break if he wasn't decades ahead on EVERY front.


Hell, Lovecraft was insanely racist, his stuff still irrefutably changed fiction and one could argue for the better convincingly enough.

[Mith]

I, think the idea is that that story comes after the one were he's on the Island with the girl, the pirates, and 2 separate flavors of monster, and also after The Queen Of The Black Coast. In fact I'm very sure of the second one.


As for writing women, eh, it was the thirty's and he was decades ahead of his time on multiple other fronts. Cut the man a break if he wasn't decades ahead on EVERY front.


Hell, Lovecraft was insanely racist, his stuff still irrefutably changed fiction and one could argue for the better convincingly enough.

From what I can tell "Queen of the Black Coast" is Conan's first sea voyage.

[Yora]

As for writing women, eh, it was the thirty's and he was decades ahead of his time on multiple other fronts. Cut the man a break if he wasn't decades ahead on EVERY front.

And it's not like all the women in his stories are useless. There are the occasional weak ones, but most have agency and do stuff. And I can't think of one that is actively awful. (Whaever is in Vale of Lost Women doesn't count because he threw it out halfway into the first draft.)

The thing with women in Howard stories is that he acknowledges that women are disadvantaged by society and works with that. He doesn't make his violent world of war and evil sorcerers and enmancipated utopia that is more progressive than his own society. Can't really blame him for that.

[Mith]

And it's not like all the women in his stories are useless. There are the occasional weak ones, but most have agency and do stuff. And I can't think of one that is actively awful. (Whaever is in Vale of Lost Women doesn't count because he threw it out halfway into the first draft.)

The thing with women in Howard stories is that he acknowledges that women are disadvantaged by society and works with that. He doesn't make his violent world of war and evil sorcerers and enmancipated utopia that is more progressive than his own society. Can't really blame him for that.

Plus, it's not like Belit got the worst rap. Yes she dies, but otherwise there would be no going forward to the point of Conan as King. As I understand it "The Phoenix on the Sword " was the first written Conan story, even if it isn't chronological.

[Wardog]

Anyway, overall good story. I found puzzling Conan's initial arrival on the ship. Its.. just..he comes from nowhere and proves he is not only an experienced seaman, he apparently has actual experience in gaining loyalty of a new crew and knows the ins and outs of taking over from another captain.

If thats the case.. when did he learned that? If he took over a ship previously, why doesnt he still have a ship?!

My understanding is that Howard started with the idea of a barbarian warrior who went from nothing to being king of a major realm, via time spent as a thief/mercenary/pirate/banit/etc - and then wrote stories about random episodes in his life. (I.e. with little regard for chronology, or continuity).

So if a story features him as an influential pirate captain, mercenary leader, bandit chief, etc, you just have to assume it is set some time whatever events first got him into pirating/mercening/banditing.

[Mordar]

My understanding is that Howard started with the idea of a barbarian warrior who went from nothing to being king of a major realm, via time spent as a thief/mercenary/pirate/banit/etc - and then wrote stories about random episodes in his life. (I.e. with little regard for chronology, or continuity).

So if a story features him as an influential pirate captain, mercenary leader, bandit chief, etc, you just have to assume it is set some time whatever events first got him into pirating/mercening/banditing.

Howard said (paraphrasing) it was as if Conan came to him fully formed and would occasionally tell him (Howard) tales of his exploits before and after becoming King of Aquilonia. It was in the way of friends telling stories of their past...no agenda or enforced order, just whatever whim or inspiration struck to trigger a memory.

- M

[Cikomyr]

Howard said (paraphrasing) it was as if Conan came to him fully formed and would occasionally tell him (Howard) tales of his exploits before and after becoming King of Aquilonia. It was in the way of friends telling stories of their past...no agenda or enforced order, just whatever whim or inspiration struck to trigger a memory.

- M

I do like that. And i usually dont mind the format at all. For example, i have no issue with Conan being able to lead an army effectively in The Black Colossus.

Its just.. if in a story he suddenly demonstrated the capacity to act as Grand Vizir to a Sultan in every capacity, i would go "okay, its clear he has had prior experience there. But then why isnt he still Grand Vizir somewhere?!"

[Fyraltari]

I do like that. And i usually dont mind the format at all. For example, i have no issue with Conan being able to lead an army effectively in The Black Colossus.

Its just.. if in a story he suddenly demonstrated the capacity to act as Grand Vizir to a Sultan in every capacity, i would go "okay, its clear he has had prior experience there. But then why isnt he still Grand Vizir somewhere?!"

I think Conan's life follows a simple pattern:
Arrive in a place, claw your way up the local food chain, get bored/get overthrown, leave the place, rinse and repeat with the different adventures being small windows in this cycle (ie he often starts a story fleeing from somewhere or trying to get a reputation somewhere). That cycles continues until he becomes king of Aquilonia where a combination of old age, newfound sense of purpose and responsability, the idea that he has done pretty much every other job he is qualified for and the fact that he will never land a sweeter job make him stay for good.

[BannedInSchool]

I think Conan's life follows a simple pattern:
Arrive in a place, claw your way up the local food chain, get bored/get overthrown, leave the place, rinse and repeat with the different adventures being small windows in this cycle (ie he often starts a story fleeing from somewhere or trying to get a reputation somewhere). That cycles continues until he becomes king of Aquilonia where a combination of old age, newfound sense of purpose and responsability, the idea that he has done pretty much every other job he is qualified for and the fact that he will never land a sweeter job make him stay for good.

And I nearly choked imagining Arnold rapping a Conan version of Prince of Bel Air.

"Dees iz a shtorry..."

[Fyraltari]

And I nearly choked imagining Arnold rapping a Conan version of Prince of Bel Air.

"Dees iz a shtorry..."

That's the thing with a young Will Smith, yes?

[russdm]

And I nearly choked imagining Arnold rapping a Conan version of Prince of Bel Air.

"Dees iz a shtorry..."

I remember in the first Arnold Conan movie DVD commentary, it gets mentioned that there were plans to have Conan actually narrate, but they ended up going with Mako because of Arnold's accent. Can't recall when it happens in the commentary, think around when Conan is learning about the way of the sword? It's an interesting idea though.

[Yora]

And I nearly choked imagining Arnold rapping a Conan version of Prince of Bel Air.

"Dees iz a shtorry..."

There is "Conan: The Musical".


I do like that. And i usually dont mind the format at all. For example, i have no issue with Conan being able to lead an army effectively in The Black Colossus.

Its just.. if in a story he suddenly demonstrated the capacity to act as Grand Vizir to a Sultan in every capacity, i would go "okay, its clear he has had prior experience there. But then why isnt he still Grand Vizir somewhere?!"

The lives of some vikings are as amazing and unexpected as that of Conan. Harald Hardrada being basically a real life Conan.


When he was fifteen years old, in 1030, Harald fought in the Battle of Stiklestad together with his half-brother Olaf Haraldsson (later Saint Olaf). Olaf sought to reclaim the Norwegian throne, which he had lost to the Danish king Cnut the Great two years prior. In the battle, Olaf and Harald were defeated by forces loyal to Cnut, and Harald was forced into exile to Kievan Rus' (the sagas' Garðaríki). He thereafter spent some time in the army of Grand Prince Yaroslav the Wise, eventually obtaining rank as a captain, until he moved on to Constantinople with his companions around 1034. In Constantinople, he soon rose to become the commander of the Byzantine Varangian Guard, and saw action on the Mediterranean Sea, in Asia Minor, Sicily, possibly in the Holy Land, Bulgaria and in Constantinople itself, where he became involved in the imperial dynastic disputes. Harald amassed considerable wealth during his time in the Byzantine Empire, which he shipped to Yaroslav in Kievan Rus' for safekeeping. He finally left the Byzantines in 1042, and arrived back in Kievan Rus' in order to prepare his campaign of reclaiming the Norwegian throne.