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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Rules for a flying Construct, or Advanced Constructs?



TalonOfAnathrax
2018-05-02, 11:46 AM
I want a flying castle. Something that can be lived in, look awesome, and be an effective weapon of war. Aerial bombardments with Shrink Item would be nice, but just getting the thing flying and stopping it from falling down when a Disjunction is cast would be good.
Any RAW ways to make that happen?

My first thought was making a Colossal Golem shaped like a castle and that had a native (Ex) fly speed. Golems are pretty much immune to magic and this guy would be immensely tough! Expensive solution, but seemed viable. Then I realised that I couldn't actually find any rules for crating that kind of Golem.

My second solution was to use the Raise the Keep ritual from Relics and Rituals, a third party book I have and that seems pretty good. Never used those ritual rules, but apart from the huge cost in Gold, time and allied casters needed it seems to work well enough.

I'll accept third party or Pathfinder stuff too if needed, but please make the source of your solution clear.

This is for a long-term plan: assume that I have mostly unlimited resources and numerous allied arcane and divine casters who could help if needed, but that I would prefer to keep it as foolproof and cheap as possible.

Context in spoiler:

So I've been following A Sword Without A Hilt, which is a Quest over on Sufficient Velocity. It's a D&D 3.X/ASOIaF fusion where the main character is a Vyserys Targaryen who becomes a level 1 Sorcerer when Ser Darry dies and he would have become a beggar (and eventually gone insane). Here, things go... Differently. Less psychotic madness and more insane ambition, but the insane ambitions of the past are very possible today as magic and monsters return to the setting and you're a full caster!
The worldbuilding is very cleverly done, the GM is great, and overall it's a lot of fun. It's gotten extremely frequent and regular updates for years on end now, and as of today stand at 1.7 million words. The first few updates suffered from a few typoes and phrasings that annoyed my inner-grammar nazi, but it gets better quickly and overall the archive binge is fun and rewarding.
Now for the D&D fanatics here, the Lore (Planar structure, history, ect...) is a little odd because it's an ASOIaF fusion, and pretty much every main character eventually get a personal Prestige class. The GM just amps up the difficulty if something looks too overpowered, and the players turn down opportunities to get Mirror Mepits and stack Nightsticks and instead just balance everything with "DMM Cleric" as a baseline. The main character just became a Dragon as his PrC captsone feature, for example. The setting and GM can cope, so it makes for a great and well-ran high-powered game!
The quest features combat challenges defeated with judicious planning and optimisation (and the occasional main character death, but in D&D that isn't that annoying), social challenges dealt with by clever write-ins from players and a social-specced Sorcerer as a main character, social and political reform dealt with by optimising character skill ranks and by great OOC debates, and political machinations. Lots of politics.
Also monsters. So many monsters. We have Vyserys running around putting out fires every so often because half the ASOIaF are too incompetent or stupid to stop literal demon-summoning apocalypse cults from growing everywhere. And let's not even talk about the Deep Ones (mind flayers) or Tiamat's rather personal beef with us... :/
Overall, 10/10 great stuff, go read it! I regularly reread choice bits of it (of which there are a lot), and it's even readable if you know little about D&D and ASOIaF!

We have a bodyguard who kicks a ridiculous amount of ass thanks to the special training and gear we got him and all the leveling he's been doing from following the main character around killing demons and Divine Avatars of Tiamat and whatnot for years on end. He is incredibly loyal, but refuses immortality and will eventually retire and marry. All he wants is a small keep somewhere, and his relatively inconsequential ancestral lands which shouldn't be too much trouble to rule.
Of course this looks like a rather poor reward even if it is what he wans, and so it was suggested to get his castle to fly. He'd be strong enough to defend it and loyal enough to trust with an engine of mass destruction, and it's exactly the kind of reward he'd want: small enough not to be too much work, but really damn cool and good at crushing demons if needed. We already have about 8 level 12+ full casters and a school training magelings by the dozens, and a decent enough kingdom. By the time he's ready to retire we should be the Emperor of at least half the material plane (if everything goes as planned) and insane wealth and 20+ lv17+ full casters, so we should be able to get him pretty much anything. The GM will okay pretty much anything as long as it works by RAW and we put in the IC time, effort and wealth to research it, and he is open to third party material if it doesn't seem too broken. This is mostly an "end of campaign, time to go wild" thing, so feel free to go wild in your suggestions!

Of course, we are in the "world conquest" stage now. Rules for flying Constructs would be useful! Maybe not indestructible huge castles requiring CL 20, but getting a ship or two to fly and drop bombs or carry people around fast would be a useful use of our time. So if you have suggestions that are expensive but theoretically feasible at around level 14/15, I want those too!

Karl Aegis
2018-05-02, 11:56 AM
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Making an entire castle a creature seems pointless when you can't actually go inside. Maybe only certain parts of the castle are constructs so you can move around in it, but just can't end your movement in archways or something.

TalonOfAnathrax
2018-05-02, 12:00 PM
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Making an entire castle a creature seems pointless when you can't actually go inside. Maybe only certain parts of the castle are constructs so you can move around in it, but just can't end your movement in archways or something.

Really?
The Ride skill is a skill that exists.

Still, the Construct could be the base of the castle and everything else could be built upon its back, Discworld turtle style.

Darrin
2018-05-03, 09:35 AM
This is what the Stronghold Builder's Guide (SBG) is for. There's a feat called Landlord that even gives you money to build it. Only requirement is you have to be at least 9th level.

This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21157431&postcount=38) describes a method to fly over your enemies with a bathtub and carpet bomb them with a vertical cattle stampede.

SirNibbles
2018-05-03, 09:48 AM
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Making an entire castle a creature seems pointless when you can't actually go inside. Maybe only certain parts of the castle are constructs so you can move around in it, but just can't end your movement in archways or something.

You can if it is 3 sizes larger or smaller than you, which a castle would be.

Psyren
2018-05-03, 10:05 AM
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Making an entire castle a creature seems pointless when you can't actually go inside. Maybe only certain parts of the castle are constructs so you can move around in it, but just can't end your movement in archways or something.

As noted this is not quite correct - if a creature is significantly larger than you, you can share it's space just fine. If the creature is a mount it can be even closer to you in size than that.

Karl Aegis
2018-05-03, 11:06 AM
Making the entire thing only accessible to Tiny or smaller creatures would cut the cost of raw materials and provide some amount of security. This bypasses the problem Small or larger creatures can't end their movement in combat with another small or larger creature while making the location undesirable to most monsters.

Psyren
2018-05-03, 12:03 PM
Making the entire thing only accessible to Tiny or smaller creatures would cut the cost of raw materials and provide some amount of security. This bypasses the problem Small or larger creatures can't end their movement in combat with another small or larger creature while making the location undesirable to most monsters.

Pretty sure OP wants to live in it though (second sentence.)

SirNibbles
2018-05-03, 02:54 PM
Flesh to Stone on a beholder?

Karl Aegis
2018-05-03, 03:45 PM
Build it on a no gravity plane like the Ethereal Plane. Or hijack a mind flayer space flyer.

Andor13
2018-05-03, 07:51 PM
A permanent reverse gravity on a section of the castle could give it essentially "neutral bouyancy" and allow it to float, you would then need a secondary means of propulsion like a couple of air elementals or chained dragons or a flock of seagulls on strings. Plus you get to have a chamber in the castle where a giant lump of lead acts as your chained lift stone, which looks cool and gives you something to defend. It may be smarter to have several independant sections as a safety against disjunctions, and probably some emergency rods of holding built into the structure as a failsafe.

Zombimode
2018-05-04, 07:56 AM
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Besides only applying to creatures withing 2 size categories of your own, this also is only true in combat.

Bronk
2018-05-04, 08:57 AM
I want a flying castle. Something that can be lived in, look awesome, and be an effective weapon of war. Aerial bombardments with Shrink Item would be nice, but just getting the thing flying and stopping it from falling down when a Disjunction is cast would be good.
Any RAW ways to make that happen?

***

I'll accept third party or Pathfinder stuff too if needed, but please make the source of your solution clear.

This is for a long-term plan: assume that I have mostly unlimited resources and numerous allied arcane and divine casters who could help if needed, but that I would prefer to keep it as foolproof and cheap as possible.

***

Rules for flying Constructs would be useful! Maybe not indestructible huge castles requiring CL 20, but getting a ship or two to fly and drop bombs or carry people around fast would be a useful use of our time. So if you have suggestions that are expensive but theoretically feasible at around level 14/15, I want those too!
[/spoiler]

My first suggestion would be a large ship fitted with a cloud keel from the Arms and Equipment Guide. Add planar sails from the same source, and your castle can be pretty much anywhere in 10 to 20 minutes.

My second suggestion would be to use a preexisting spelljammer city ship, like an Elven Armada, from Dungeon 92 / Polyhedron 151, which go beyond colossal size to 'Awesome' size... the only place I've ever seen a bigger size than colossal aside from the colossal+ for epic dragons.


Flesh to Stone on a beholder?

You can turn the corpse of a beholder into weird flying vehicle (Dragon 331)... maybe if you used the corpse of the biggest one you could find?

Celestia
2018-05-04, 10:18 AM
All these bizarre work around answers, when you can literally just make flying buildings with the Stronghold Builders Guide. No petrified beholders needed.

Tvtyrant
2018-05-04, 03:05 PM
There are some interesting ways people have come up with.

A Ghost Wizard can make walls that are on the ethereal plane, and ones that are on both the ethereal and material planes simultaneously. Make a big tower of Wall of Stone in tbe ethereal, then manifest on the Prime and build the castle on top of it. You now have a "flying" castle.

You can also make permanent Walls of Force, which just require flying up, casting them and then putting a building on top of them. Put a lead lined wrap around the walls of force and they can't be disjuncted.

A brainwashed colossal mimic with a levitate spell on it.

Make a thruster using riverine, with a miniscule opening. Build it around a Decanter of Endless Water, the pressure acts like a space ship thruster.

Gemini476
2018-05-04, 03:23 PM
Yeah, the answer to this is just "pay 20,000-40,000GP per stronghold space, depending on desired speed". The only real requirement is that you have access to Reverse Gravity for the duration of the construction, which means that you'll have to have access to 13th-level Wizards. Although casting costs are assumed in the price, if I'm reading it right, so don't worry about that.

Casting Disjunction on it (it's a close range spell, you know?) leaves it slowly falling to the ground as per Feather Fall, but it needs to be cast on every single stronghold space for it to be disjoined.
The sample Cheap Keep has 28 stronghold spaces. Disjunction is a 9th-level spell that will affect up to... what, twelve spaces in a circle? However, as a burst it won't affect any spaces beyond the ones in front of the mage in question. In other words, if you make a cube of 3x3x3 (27) stronghold spaces then the most that the Wizard could disjoin at once would be one side (nine spaces) and they would have to physically intrude into the stronghold in whatever way to manage to disjoin the central space.

Of course, that cube would also cost 540,000GP just for the cheapest mobility - 837,000GP if you want it to fly at the blistering speed of 1MPH. It's not cheap, but come level 17 the Landlord feat could cover half that cost. (Or you can just use magic to manipulate the market and get enough wealth by yourself.)