[Guide] Beginner's Guide to 3pp - Path of War

[Mezzaluna]

Since 3pp can be a bit intimidating to get into for some people, I worked with some friends on an introduction guide for them!
The idea is to give newcomers to the system a general overview, a guided walk through everything they need to know to start, and also point out a lot of key points that aren't explicit in rules but have become common practice (who knows how many key clarifications for Path of War and Spheres of Power are hidden away in the FAQ threads or in the middle of an obscure rules section?)

So for a start, here's the Beginner's Path of War Guide (https://docs.google.com/document/u/1/d/1GTg6EyHzEdb97VnggQGDkZBtweZM7VKhe06NP-z_9qY/edit#) - I'm no expert on every single class and discipline, so any feedback is appreciated!

Especially helpful is feedback and tips on how to make it more accessible to new people, since that's the main goal.
On that same note, I don't want to oversaturate the document with info that a more detailed guide would give: the main things I want to include are things along the line of 'I wish I knew this when starting out', or 'I never realized that was a thing!', etc.

Thanks for reading!
Spheres of Power next, maybe.

[Castilonium]

Top notch job! The beginning sections are especially good because you didn't beat around the bush and directly explained what PoW's shortcomings are and what to expect. You also clarified a ton of common misconceptions and rules people forget about.

I don't think the "originality of design" part of the disciplines is helpful. That's a lot more subjective than the other things you gave stars for. It also might turn people away from even looking at certain disciplines.


Maneuvers out of combat: Nothing is stopping maneuvers from being used out of combat. Originally this was meant to be GM discretion, but the recovery method for the Mystic makes explicit reference to using maneuvers out of battle. GMs may still want to implement rules stopping people from attacking the air or a nearby tree to get the side benefits of their strikes (like healing or teleporting.)

Here's a link (http://dreamscarred.com/topic/pow-martial-maneuvers-outside-of-combat/) to the official word on the subject by Chris Bennett, aka ErrantX. You can use maneuvers out of combat, and they recover on the following round.

[Elricaltovilla]

I have not yet closed the Medic Playtest documents because it's not on the pfsrd yet. They are functionally identical to the published version, outside of some grammar fixes.

Also, the medic makes a pretty good tank overall. Not Warder level, but it is definitely capable thanks to it's class features and disciplines.

[ChrisAsmadi]

I feel like the lack of utility maneuvers should be mentioned amongst the drawbacks of the system, because I'm definitely feeling it while playing a Bushi Vigilante Stalker. (I know there's a few of them, especially in Veiled Moon, but most of them are Supernatural, which doesn't really help when I'm trying to play the character as mundane).


I have not yet closed the Medic Playtest documents because it's not on the pfsrd yet. They are functionally identical to the published version, outside of some grammar fixes.

Also, the medic makes a pretty good tank overall. Not Warder level, but it is definitely capable thanks to it's class features and disciplines.

Who decides what gets added to the PFSRD (/Spheres of Power wiki) and when it gets updated, anyway?

[AmberVael]

Who decides what gets added to the PFSRD (/Spheres of Power wiki) and when it gets updated, anyway?

The PFSRD is primarily the work of a man named John Reyst, and my understanding is that most of its contents are updated by volunteers, whether developers with extra time, fans, or just glorious people devoted to compiling rules material. I think the rule of thumb is that John waits at least one month until after something is published to put it up on the PFSRD, as the first month is when most of product sales happen and he can avoid hurting authors that way. But given that there is so much material and only a few volunteers, you could be waiting a while for something to show up.

The Spheres Wiki is run by a fan. I think its just one guy? The site is kept pretty up to date, though I believe there is also a delay (maybe a couple of weeks) to avoid cutting into profits.

In short, the what and when of content being put on wikis is by people having the time and willpower to do it. If you or anyone else felt so inclined, you could probably volunteer to update the PFSRD or just make your own wiki.

[Andor13]

Very cool. I feel the Zealot deserves a special mention though for having a lot of moving parts. I'm playing a high level one right now and I have 5 pages of cheat sheets to keep track of everything, and I still forget half the time.

You should probably spend a little time talking about recovery mechanisms.

Stalker and Warder have the worst, taking a full round to recover, although both gain a secondary benefit from doing so.
Warlord , you touch on, but are weird. I do like their mechanism however, since while it does suck up a swift and standard action, at least you're doing something with the standard. It feels fluid.
Mystics are 3.5 crusader recovery. Strong in the sense that it doesn't take any actions at all, but also the least control of any initiator.
Harbingers have a very strong recovery mechanism, but it eats their swift. They are severely bottlenecked by the one swift/immediate a round rule.
Zealots have a very strong mechanism that only costs their move action, is heavily supported by class features, and helps your party. (Properly designed they can hand out absurd aid-another bonuses, my Warlord(Bushi) 3/ Zealot 15 Aids for a +11-20 depending on Zeal and the exact action.)
Rajah recovery is a standard action, but not really since you can give it to another party member.
I don't know medics...

The Victorious Recovery feat is worth mentioning as a boon to Stalkers and Warders.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Good guide, will recommend it to my PoW-hating table. Though they would probably think Fool's Errand warrants an extra star or two on offensive capability, based solely off of Utter Commitment.

[Mezzaluna]

Thanks for the feedback so far!



I don't think the "originality of design" part of the disciplines is helpful. That's a lot more subjective than the other things you gave stars for. It also might turn people away from even looking at certain disciplines.

It's something I use a lot in my personal judgement of disciplines - the extent it uses creative mechanics beyond simple '+Xd6 and [condition/combat maneuver]'. In contrast, some people might not want to fuss with weird abilities and stick to the basics.

I think it's a helpful category but I might have made it misleading - would it help if I changed the name? Something like 'uniqueness of mechanics'?


I feel like the lack of utility maneuvers should be mentioned amongst the drawbacks of the system, because I'm definitely feeling it while playing a Bushi Vigilante Stalker.
I wouldn't really call this a drawback as much as unexplored potential - there is better utility than most 1pp martials (especially for a vigilante stalker, of all archetypes) - but it's a valid enough thing to note that it's got its own small section now.


Very cool. I feel the Zealot deserves a special mention though for having a lot of moving parts. I'm playing a high level one right now and I have 5 pages of cheat sheets to keep track of everything, and I still forget half the time.

You should probably spend a little time talking about recovery mechanisms.

Maybe this is just coming from someone who's played knight-chandler and roil dancer, but zealots don't seem that complicated to the point it needs a special mention. I've played one, but not to the point where I got the mission augments.

As for recovery methods, I'm not sure they're super relevant to a class overview unless they stand out (like the mystic's, for being complicated, or the stalker's, for being pretty bad) - if someone asked 'can you explain what this class is about?', recovery method isn't usually something you mention.

I do think defensive focus and dark claim should be talked about more, though - I've added those.

Changelog:

Added link to Medic playtest, mentioned it can tank
Linked to disciplines out of combat ruling
Added an 'initiators and utility' section
Mentioned Victorious Recovery
Short notes on Warder and Harbinger recovery

[Elricaltovilla]

I'm curious about how and or why you are rating each discipline's anime-ness. It seems like an unusual metric to measure by.

Also, for Mithral Current you should note that most of the MC stances let you sheathe your weapon for free 1/round, which eases up the feat requirements by about 50% if you really don't want to get too invested in it.

[Mezzaluna]

Anime-ness is sliigghhttly tongue in cheek, but also a valid metric - I think a lot of people, especially people more used to 1pp, would judge or make choices about disciplines based on how 'gritty' or 'realistic' they are.

It's pretty subjective but should still give a rough idea of whether you're more likely to associate a discipline with a historical war movie or a final fantasy game, and helps GMs and players maintain setting tone.

For Mithral Current, I did forget about the stances! I'd still call stance slot a heavy investment but I added it in as an option.

[ChrisAsmadi]

It might be worth mentioning the War Shifter (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/warshifter) archetype for SoP Shifters in the Half-Initiators section, too.

Also, base Stalkers and base Warlords probably deserve mentions in the Archery role section, because you can build either one for it (and each class has support for it, including one of the easiest gambits to trigger and a Stalker arts).

[Elricaltovilla]

Anime-ness is sliigghhttly tongue in cheek, but also a valid metric - I think a lot of people, especially people more used to 1pp, would judge or make choices about disciplines based on how 'gritty' or 'realistic' they are.

It's pretty subjective but should still give a rough idea of whether you're more likely to associate a discipline with a historical war movie or a final fantasy game, and helps GMs and players maintain setting tone.

For Mithral Current, I did forget about the stances! I'd still call stance slot a heavy investment but I added it in as an option.

I can appreciate tongue in cheek naming, but I think Wuxia-ness would be a more accurate term. Because this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naruto) is an anime, but so is this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserk_(manga)), this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave_of_the_Fireflies), this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Wars!:_Shokugeki_no_Soma) and this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Bebop).

[Andor13]

Maybe this is just coming from someone who's played knight-chandler and roil dancer, but zealots don't seem that complicated to the point it needs a special mention. I've played one, but not to the point where I got the mission augments.

Admittedly I built it to have more moving parts than it strictly needs, since I swapped for Radiant Dawn, which adds essence to the mix but...

Expendable/movable resources are: Hit points, Power Points, Essence, Foci, Maneuvers. (Ignoring the fact that this is a mythic campaign.)
I have 8 available types of free actions a round (Some off round.)
5 Types of swift action available

For every single incoming enemy attack I have the option of using Martyrdom, A counter, and/or Living Bastion
Every time I expend a maneuver I have the option to echoes of steel it.
I hand out party bonuses from Zeal, Aid Another, and heaping buckets of temporary hitpoints from Radiant Dawn which also carry a rider effect of +3 to AC, saves and +15' of movement from Radiant Daybreak.

Oh, and I can hand out teamwork feats. (I forgot about that, and haven't used it yet.)

All of which completely ignores items. Honestly I'd rather be playing a nice simple Harbinger, but the GM said they needed a tanky healer, and holy crap do I deliver on that.

[The Shadowmind]

I feel like the lack of utility maneuvers should be mentioned amongst the drawbacks of the system, because I'm definitely feeling it while playing a Bushi Vigilante Stalker. (I know there's a few of them, especially in Veiled Moon, but most of them are Supernatural, which doesn't really help when I'm trying to play the character as mundane)


What are all the ulitiy manuevers scattered around the disciplines?
I know Sleeping Goddess has Unbroken Stride, Reunion in Dreams, Unavoidable Gaze of the Sleeping Goddess,
Riven Hourglass: Distorted Clock, Unhindered Step, Time Skitter(the move speed boost), Temporal Body Adjustment,
Veiled Moon: Spirit Sensing Stance, Formless Dance, Ghostwalk, Ethereal Reminiscence, Fading Leap, more teleport maneuvers.

[Andor13]

What are all the ulitiy manuevers scattered around the disciplines?

Radiant Dawn (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bxvxLR5IDD2J_EHV0n60dxoS504TPwZXeun7HeKumN4/edit#) is just full of them, but Stance of the Sunlight Shield deserves a special mention.


Stance of the Sunlight Shield
Discipline: Radiant Dawn (Stance)
Prerequisites: Two Radiant Dawn maneuvers
Level: 5
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
This stance sits halfway between martial form and magic prowess, conjuring shields of light to defend yourself and others. While you maintain this stance, you may create sunlight shields. Creating a single sunlight shield is done as free action that can be done once per round, and is done automatically when you enter this stance. A sunlight shield can be created anywhere within close range (25 feet plus 5 feet per 2 levels) of you (to include in the air, where they float until destroyed, dismissed, or removed). Treat a sunlight shield as a 10ft by 10ft by 1 inch thick wall of force, but with hardness equal to your initiator level plus your initiation modifier, and 1 hit point. They may be made smaller at the initiator's discretion. You may have a number of sunlight shields equal to your initiation modifier, and these shields last indefinitely, or until they are no longer within close range of you, you dismiss them as a free action, or you leave this stance. These sunlight shields can be made at any angle, and are treated as normal terrain when stepped on. You may command these shields to fly an amount of feet equal to your movement speed as a move action.
You may also create a sunlight shield as an immediate action, but doing so is dangerous as the hasty construction leaves your essence tied to it. Until the start of your next turn, any damage that the shield takes (before hardness is taken into account), or any spell that would fail because of the shield’s sudden appearance between its caster and its target is also inflicted on you, regardless of distance.
Creatures can attack other creatures on the other side of these shields, dealing damage to the shield first. If an attack would break the shield, the remainder of the damage is dealt to the creature if the original attack would have hit. When you enter this stance, you may designate any number of allies. These allies’ attacks and abilities are not impeded by your sunlight shields.
Essence: Each point of essence invested into this stance increases the hardness of the sunlight shields by 3, the number of sunlight shields you create when entering this stance by 1, and the number of sunlight shields you can possess at one time by 2.