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mudbunny
2007-09-04, 09:31 AM
I am considering buying a new system.

I currently have D&D 3.5, and will more than likely be buying 4.0 when it comes out. However, I would also like to pick up a new game system that I would be able to play on-line, via play-by-post.

Any suggestions??

psychoticbarber
2007-09-04, 09:33 AM
Why not try Fudge (http://www.fudgerpg.com/fudge.html)? Simple system, you can use it do whatever you like, it's fairly intuitive, and best of all: It's free.

Grum
2007-09-04, 09:54 AM
You should pick up Harnmaster by Columbia Games. IMHO, it is one of the best systems ever made. It is the system that I presently play. It is medieval fantasy with a very realistic flavor. I recommend it to anyone that is looking for something outside the blandness of the d20 universe.

If that doesn't suit your needs, and you need something with a little more fantasy then try Warhammer Fantasy RP.

Ashtar
2007-09-04, 09:57 AM
or Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm), just try the solo adventures for an idea of how the system works.

Risus and Fudge are good systems to try out for fun. Also, why not go crazy on pokéthulhu (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/pokethulhu.htm) ?

There is also BESM (Big Eyes Small Mouth) which is based on the Tri-Stat DX (http://www.guardiansorder.com/pdfs/goo_TriStatdX.pdf) engine (available for free), a system that works quite well for simulating anime.

And finally, Ars Magica (http://www.atlas-games.com/arsmagica/), a system for playing magus in early 13th century mythical europe. With a very comprehensive magic system that allows both "named spells" (ŕ la fireball or grasping hand) and instantaneous invocations (I want to make bubbles appear in the air). I am quite a fan of Ars, but my players are more DnDish.

Silouhette (http://www.dp9.com/Products/Corerules.htm) from DP9 is also a great RPG system, that is adaptable to anything from cavemen to hyper-sci-fi mecha combat. I've even used it to play Anime style college scenario using social attacks (Can Etsuko-san cause a nosebleed when foreign student Oliver walks into the wrong side of the hot baths?). The worlds they offer are Heavy Gear, a mecha ŕ la Votoms world and Jovian Chronicles which is Gundam inspired. Again, I love the system!

Kurald Galain
2007-09-04, 10:01 AM
Is there any reason why you can't play D&D on-line or via play-by-post? Lots of people do.

What are you looking for in a system? Simplicity? Rules? Fantasy? Scifi? Western?

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 10:05 AM
Hmm, good point.

Like I mentioned, I already have D&D and am playing in PbP, but I would like something a bit more different from that.

I wouldn't mind something sci-fi'ish.

Some systems I have been thinking of:

World of Darkness
ShadowRun

There are also some other, heavy sci-fi systems out there that I know of only by name, like Traveler or Rifts.

I wouldn't mind something that isn't quite as complex as TableRolemaster. The rules should be fairly crunchy, but with some decent Fluff as well.

Morty
2007-09-04, 10:07 AM
Warhammer Fantasy RPG is a solid dark fantasy system. I don't think if it's played via PbP often, though.

MrNexx
2007-09-04, 10:35 AM
There are also some other, heavy sci-fi systems out there that I know of only by name, like Traveler or Rifts.

I wouldn't mind something that isn't quite as complex as TableRolemaster. The rules should be fairly crunchy, but with some decent Fluff as well.

If you want a good mix of fairly crunchy, decent fluff, and are looking at heavy Sci-fi, Rifts is a good option. Palladium's been producing for 26 years now, and all of their stuff (except for a couple things bought from other people) is compatible with each other. Their prices are low (compared to other gaming companies), but their printing quality is high, and while some of the mid-field of worldbooks are kinda munchkiny, the recent releases have really brought back the core of the game.

Plus, they have a kickin' fantasy game (fully compatible with Rifts), and a sourcebook series specifically made up of non-canon things made up by fans that's about to enter it's tenth year.

Pauwel
2007-09-04, 11:09 AM
I recommen Shadowrun and Ars Magica, but those have been mentioned, so yeah.

Besides those, Mutants and Masterminds is a fantastic system; it's meant for superhero games, but it can be used perfectly well for fantasy too (and Star Wars-ish sci-fi, I guess).

Yakk
2007-09-04, 11:55 AM
http://www.gregstolze.com/reign/index.html
Interesting dice mechanic, fantasy, based around influencing the world via organizations.

http://epicrpg.com/
A nicely gritty fantasy roleplaying game and world.

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6989.html
Noblis. Reality is under siege, and you are manning the wall. You are the appointed guardian of an aspect of reality. You could be Swords, or Dice, or Blue, or Fire, or Feathers, or Innocent Until Proven Guilty, or Love. If you fall, so does that aspect of reality.

http://www.arcdream.com/wildtalents/
A gritty superhero game. This is the "2nd edition" (the first one had different rules, and was set during a super-powered WWI) in practice if not in name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberrant_(role-playing_game)
Another super-powered RPG. In 1998, super humans appeared. What the hell is going on? Less gritty.

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12558.phtml
Spirit of the Century. Pulp adventure (the genre that Indiana Jones/Crimson Skies/Tomb Raider/etc was based on). Uses the Fate engine.

Hope that's a nice selection to look at. :)

Monney Dhoo
2007-09-04, 12:51 PM
Some systems I have been thinking of:

World of Darkness
ShadowRun

I am a big fan of the new World of Darkness system, it is simple to understand, but its design is such that it can be easily applied to most situations. It uses a attribute + skill system, where simply you roll a number of dice equal to the dots you have in the attribute and the skill. You then have modifiers based upon the difficulty of the roll. The setting is a dark personal horror, where the world is like ours, but more degenerate, there are more gangs, who are more violent, etc.

The system also allows for different types of games where you play different types of supernatural creature, such as vampires or werewolves.With these the horror shifts to being about the differences between you and the normal humans and your monstrous nature.

ShadowRun is an absurdly complex system to play, with detailed rules for lots of situations. When I played it I found it to be too mathematically based for me to be interested in it. Though to be fair this was a one of game, were nobody (not even the GM) had played the system before. I can see after a few sessions the game flowing better when everybody is used to the system and know what the characters can do in each situation and the rolls required. Setting wise, with Shadowrun I find the forcing of the fantasy races in to the system to be a bit annoying, and I would be more interested in a straight cyberpunk game.

One good piece of advice, if you go Drive-Thru RPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com) they have a section for free pdfs and some of these are the basic rules for different systems. In there, there is a game called Witchcraft, which is a full PDF rulebook with a decent amount of detail and it is free.

horseboy
2007-09-04, 01:59 PM
Well, for sci-fi, if you can find it, Twilight 2000 is loads of fun. You never really know your buddies until you've played a couple of T2K games with them McGuyvering their way through everything. It's almost archetype for the post-apocalypse role playing game. If you love Red Dawn, you'll love T2K.

For Cyber punk, well there's Cyberpunk. Granted I haven't played the newer edition(s). But the old stuff from the mid 90's was fun.

There's several Earthdawn games over at RPGHQ. ED is a solid game built around the concept of roleplaying a character. (As opposed to d20's rollplaying a character :smalltongue: )

Ashtar
2007-09-04, 04:17 PM
Oh, I second Cyberpunk, it's great!

As for Shadowrun, my memory is that the system is a bit clunky, but it's been a long time and I played an earlier edition.

How come no one has mentioned GURPS? It's good too, and there's hundreds of books out for it.

With a good DM and players into japanese culture, Legend of the 5 Rings is awesome.

Jannex
2007-09-04, 04:34 PM
I'll throw in a third vote in favor of Cyberpunk 2020. I haven't seen the new stuff either, but the older edition is fantastic.

I can also highly recomment White Wolf. I vastly prefer the original World of Darkness to nWoD, but the latter is probably easier to find, as far as acquiring books. Exalted and Scion are also amazing, but you said you were looking in a more sci-fi direction.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-04, 05:43 PM
I can't resist...I fourth Cyberpunk 2020. Its one of my favorite systems. Too bad my players don't think the same...

Gnorosch
2007-09-04, 05:59 PM
Well, generally you can play all games online as play-by-post. Furthermore, it would have been helpful if you actually mentioned what genre you would have liked...

Nonetheless, here are my suggestions:

The Shadow of Yesterday (http://www.crngames.com/the_shadow_of_yesterday/index) is pulpy romantic sword-and-sorcery at the end of one world and the beginning of the next.

Angel Roleplaying Game (http://www.angelrpg.com/6200.htm)
This game is based on the TV show Angel and works very well for all kind of modern fantasy.

Hollow Earth Expedition (http://www.exilegames.com/games/hex.html) is a pulp game playing in the 1930 - investigate the world inside the world, fight against dinosaurs riding nazis and evil people from Atlantis.

And last but not least, I would like to second Silouhette, which makes truly for a fine science fiction RPG.

Yithian
2007-09-04, 06:07 PM
I highly recommend the new World of Darkness. It is a simple system that works very well. I also advocate the supernatural sub-games within the World of Darkness. So far there are 5, all of which are good. The five are Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Promethean (think Frankenstein), and Changeling (interesting concept, just released, well made, balanced and just plain cool). All of them are very worthy games that I endorse very much.

Then there is Exalted (second ed.) - good game with cool characters. If pulp adventure and extraordinary, anime-ish feats that are sort of thing you're looking for, this is something to consider. I should note that the system is VERY crunchy, but surprisingly balanced.

Yithian

Jannex
2007-09-04, 06:24 PM
I can't resist...I fourth Cyberpunk 2020. Its one of my favorite systems. Too bad my players don't think the same...

You could always run it as a pbp on the forums here... (Drop me a PM if you do? :smallbiggrin:)

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 09:13 PM
Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions. Please keep them coming. You have all provided me with a bunch of links to read and systems to get info on.

Thanks again!!

Sundog
2007-09-04, 09:27 PM
I might suggest HERO System. It's a generic system similar to (but predating) GURPS, and like that product, comes as a central rule-book and a variety of "plug-in" sourcebooks for various genres. You'd probably be interested in Star Hero, and possibly the setting books Alien Wars and Terran Empire (same universe, different time periods).

HERO can be a bit daunting at first (the fifth edition, revised rulebook is HUGE) but everything works smoothly and every individual rule is quite simple - even the sheer NUMBER of rules, though large, is not unmanageable. Personally, I love the system.

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 09:43 PM
I was taking a look at the World of Darkness stuff, as it seems to be, other than D&D and GURPS, one of the big players, and had a question.

How likely is it that a game of WoD will turn into an emo angst-fest??

horseboy
2007-09-04, 09:46 PM
How likely is it that a game of WoD will turn into an emo angst-fest??

Yes. Either an emo angst-fest or wonton, complete senseless violence.

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 09:49 PM
Yes. Either an emo angst-fest or wonton, complete senseless violence.

Complete senseless violence is good. Emo angst-fest is bad. I hear enough about it from my high-school-teacher wife.

How about Rifts?? I have been looking at it, and it seems to offer quite a wide range of possibilities for play, from sci-fi to fantasy to horror. How is Rifts: Ultimate Edition?? It came out in 2005, according to the Palladium website/

Jannex
2007-09-04, 10:01 PM
I was taking a look at the World of Darkness stuff, as it seems to be, other than D&D and GURPS, one of the big players, and had a question.

How likely is it that a game of WoD will turn into an emo angst-fest??

That all depends on the other players. You can angst it up in D&D, with a fiend-blooded drow bard who hates his heritage and cuts himself. World of Darkness isn't necessarily any more of an "emo angst-fest" than the next system, unless the players want it to be. I've played countless World of Darkness games that never turned into that sort of thing. As far as the original World of Darkness is concerned, Mage: the Ascension is especially good for avoiding angsty-whiny tendencies.

horseboy
2007-09-04, 10:20 PM
Complete senseless violence is good. Emo angst-fest is bad. I hear enough about it from my high-school-teacher wife.
Yeah, I don't know what it was about WW, well yeah, it's written for the emo crowd. Course the game system is so loose that any munchkin worth his salt will have a field day. Mage and Changeling are the two least emo of the bunch, but mage is so broken, that well, just no.


How about Rifts?? I have been looking at it, and it seems to offer quite a wide range of possibilities for play, from sci-fi to fantasy to horror. How is Rifts: Ultimate Edition?? It came out in 2005, according to the Palladium website/

Rifts is good. I've done a couple of Rifts campaigns (though I usually use different mechanics). With Rifts, the GM has to set VERY strict guidelines about which characters are and aren't available for this game. Otherwise the principle story line gets drowned out pretty quick.

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I don't know what it was about WW, well yeah, it's written for the emo crowd. Course the game system is so loose that any munchkin worth his salt will have a field day. Mage and Changeling are the two least emo of the bunch, but mage is so broken, that well, just no.

Broken as in munckinable with little trouble??


Rifts is good. I've done a couple of Rifts campaigns (though I usually use different mechanics). With Rifts, the GM has to set VERY strict guidelines about which characters are and aren't available for this game. Otherwise the principle story line gets drowned out pretty quick.

One question I had for Rifts: It seems like it offers a very wide range of playstyles. Does it do them all well, or has the system spread itself so thin that it does all of them crappy.

Edit - I have also been looking at Cyberpunk 2020. On the home page (http://talsorian.safeshopper.com/8/cat8.htm?550) they have a listing for both Cyberpunk v3 and Cyberpunk 2020. Same game, just v3 is newer??

Ralfarius
2007-09-04, 10:30 PM
How likely is it that a game of WoD will turn into an emo angst-fest??
For the core book, where you're a squishy human: Depends on the players
For Mage: Not too likely, you'll be too busy trying to explain why someone trying to whip a fireball down the street is bad for them.
For Werewolf: Hopefully not. This game is about tearing things apart (there's more to it, yes, but at its core its the most senselessly violent)
For Vampire: There's a decent chance. This is the one you would most likely want to stay away from if you don't want angst and melodrama.

horseboy
2007-09-04, 10:36 PM
Broken as in munckinable with little trouble??
Imagine giving Logic Ninja a carte blanch magic system who's main restriction is "Don't make it too obvious."


One question I had for Rifts: It seems like it offers a very wide range of playstyles. Does it do them all well, or has the system spread itself so thin that it does all of them crappy.
I'd compare it favorably with Torg. If you take the main rulebook and which ever setting book you want it'll do good. The problem is that if you don't restrict the books it gets really muddled really quick. If, for example if your main theme is about how hard it is for humanity's survival and your characters are a dragon, True Atlantien, Psi cat (or whatever they're called in South America. Nexx, those Nermal looking little cats)and a Psi-hound, nobody is going to care about the humans.

Jannex
2007-09-04, 10:47 PM
Yeah, I don't know what it was about WW, well yeah, it's written for the emo crowd. Course the game system is so loose that any munchkin worth his salt will have a field day. Mage and Changeling are the two least emo of the bunch, but mage is so broken, that well, just no.

In my experience, Mage is only "broken" if you've got a ST who's really lenient on the Paradox rules. And honestly, out of the original World of Darkness games, only Vampire was really "written to be emo" at all, and I seldom saw it actually played that way.

Changeling, of course, is just awesome.

mudbunny
2007-09-04, 10:53 PM
In my experience, Mage is only "broken" if you've got a ST who's really lenient on the Paradox rules. And honestly, out of the original World of Darkness games, only Vampire was really "written to be emo" at all, and I seldom saw it actually played that way.

Changeling, of course, is just awesome.

So it can be emo if I let it get emo, and broken as long as I throw common sense out of the window and let my players fast-talk me...

horseboy
2007-09-04, 10:55 PM
In my experience, Mage is only "broken" if you've got a ST who's really lenient on the Paradox rules. And honestly, out of the original World of Darkness games, only Vampire was really "written to be emo" at all, and I seldom saw it actually played that way.

Changeling, of course, is just awesome.
Yes, Changeling was a lot of just random fun. Vampire screamed emo (Interview with a Vampire was all big when it came out. SOOOO sick of LeStat clones) Werewolf was all eco-emo. Though with enough rewriting it was playable.
Mage had a LOT of problems with power creap. That one spell in I think it was Book of Shadow where for something like 3 life, 2 matter, 1 prime and it was either 2 in spirit or 2 in time you could turn a vampire into a mortal. Yeah, crazy levels of power+sneaky gits=a quickly ending campaign.

Jannex
2007-09-04, 11:24 PM
So it can be emo if I let it get emo, and broken as long as I throw common sense out of the window and let my players fast-talk me...

Exactly right.


Yes, Changeling was a lot of just random fun. Vampire screamed emo (Interview with a Vampire was all big when it came out. SOOOO sick of LeStat clones) Werewolf was all eco-emo. Though with enough rewriting it was playable.
Mage had a LOT of problems with power creap. That one spell in I think it was Book of Shadow where for something like 3 life, 2 matter, 1 prime and it was either 2 in spirit or 2 in time you could turn a vampire into a mortal. Yeah, crazy levels of power+sneaky gits=a quickly ending campaign.

Really? That's kind of ridiculous. Last I heard, you needed level-5 Spheres to turn a vampire back into a mortal. Was this in Second Edition, or Revised? Because I know they cleaned up a lot of the really crazy stuff when Revised came out. (Not to say that MORE crazy stuff didn't sneak in later, but...)

(And as far as Werewolf went, I never experienced it as "eco-emo." The group I played with ran it as more of a testosterone-fest than anything resembling emo. But I could just be a bit irritated, since I have a hard time getting into the canine mentality. Bastet ftw!)

horseboy
2007-09-05, 12:06 AM
Exactly right.



Really? That's kind of ridiculous. Last I heard, you needed level-5 Spheres to turn a vampire back into a mortal. Was this in Second Edition, or Revised? Because I know they cleaned up a lot of the really crazy stuff when Revised came out. (Not to say that MORE crazy stuff didn't sneak in later, but...) 1st. Never got my hands on 2nd. The ST flat out banned Mages.


(And as far as Werewolf went, I never experienced it as "eco-emo." The group I played with ran it as more of a testosterone-fest than anything resembling emo. But I could just be a bit irritated, since I have a hard time getting into the canine mentality. Bastet ftw!)
Oh, you know, "Woe is us, we're all destroying the planet. I may as well slit my wrists now and save Gaia."
Yeah, my longest running WoD character was a Bagheera librarian. What? I'm not reverting to type or anything, Honest! :smallredface:

Jannex
2007-09-05, 12:17 AM
1st. Never got my hands on 2nd. The ST flat out banned Mages.

In the words of Jamie Hyneman of Mythbusters fame, "Well there's your problem..." If you're going to go original World of Darkness, your safest bet is Revised (3rd) Edition. They got rid of the vast majority of the crazy.


Oh, you know, "Woe is us, we're all destroying the planet. I may as well slit my wrists now and save Gaia."

Yeah, I never ran into any of that. It was more, "Yeah, the Apocalypse is coming, and nobody gets out of here alive and all, but we're gonna go down fighting, and eat the Wyrm's face! RAAARRR!" And my Swara would be sitting there, going, "Um, yeah. You do that. Nice doggie."


Yeah, my longest running WoD character was a Bagheera librarian. What? I'm not reverting to type or anything, Honest! :smallredface:

Awesome.

Gnorosch
2007-09-05, 01:26 AM
Complete senseless violence is good. Emo angst-fest is bad.Well, WoD can be rather an emo-angst-fest if one wants to play horror, but otherwise they are quite well made generic rules which can be used for modern and science fiction settings.

For complete senseless violence, you should take a look at Paranoia XP (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=19) or the Army of Darkness RPG (http://www.edenstudios.net/aodrpg/products.html).


How about Rifts??They have nice settings but the rules itself are extremely messy. It does not work very well for online play. Both IMO and YMMV of course.

MrNexx
2007-09-05, 02:11 AM
How about Rifts?? I have been looking at it, and it seems to offer quite a wide range of possibilities for play, from sci-fi to fantasy to horror. How is Rifts: Ultimate Edition?? It came out in 2005, according to the Palladium website/

I will admit my bias; I write for Palladium.

Their core system is pretty simple. Roll opposed d20s + modifiers to determine if you hit; ties go to defenders. Damages are usually in multiples of d6s. Skills are roll-under %. There are a lot of rules you can add to that, but you can play really well just keeping that in mind.

That said, Rifts plays easiest on the GM if you set some ground rules for your players in creating characters. "Everyone has to be members of the Coalition." "Everyone has to be True Atlanteans." "Everyone is going to belong to this mercenary organization, figure out where you fit in and why you haven't been fired yet." A game where the GM lets the players make ANYTHING gets hard to manage, especially as the number of books multiplies (however, the same can be said of D&D; meet my Goliath Dread Necromancer/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge... that's 4 books for one character). However, you can play it as gonzo-blow-em-up combat or as long involved talking sessions where no one reaches for dice or guns, just decides what to do... it all depends upon how you play it, and what your group wants to do.

It also house-rules very easily; deciding to drop a rule because you don't like it rarely screws up the rest of the game, and adding a rule because you want to doesn't, either.

Hunter Noventa
2007-09-05, 02:23 AM
I will admit my bias; I write for Palladium.

Their core system is pretty simple. Roll opposed d20s + modifiers to determine if you hit; ties go to defenders. Damages are usually in multiples of d6s. Skills are roll-under %. There are a lot of rules you can add to that, but you can play really well just keeping that in mind.

That said, Rifts plays easiest on the GM if you set some ground rules for your players in creating characters. "Everyone has to be members of the Coalition." "Everyone has to be True Atlanteans." "Everyone is going to belong to this mercenary organization, figure out where you fit in and why you haven't been fired yet." A game where the GM lets the players make ANYTHING gets hard to manage, especially as the number of books multiplies (however, the same can be said of D&D; meet my Goliath Dread Necromancer/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge... that's 4 books for one character). However, you can play it as gonzo-blow-em-up combat or as long involved talking sessions where no one reaches for dice or guns, just decides what to do... it all depends upon how you play it, and what your group wants to do.

It also house-rules very easily; deciding to drop a rule because you don't like it rarely screws up the rest of the game, and adding a rule because you want to doesn't, either.

I've always had too big problems with RIFTS. The first was the GM, who had severe difficulties limited the power level of the party. When everyone does and can take more Mega-Damage than most threats, it's pretty sad. While not strictly a problem with the game, it is a problem with the RIFTS universe.

The other issue for me was always skills and leveling up. Your skills are sometimes horridly low, no matter how you tried. "I have a 38% chance to successfully pilot this spaceship, why are they letting me near the controls?" Is the biggest offender there. And as for leveling up, it means almost nothign for non-casting characters. The only real way for someone who doesn't cast spells to be more powerful is to get shinier gear, moreso than in say, D+D.

It's really too bad that the system turns me off so much after several attempts to play it. I do love all the work that goes into the setting and what not for it, kudos on that.

Ashtar
2007-09-05, 05:26 AM
And last but not least, I would like to second Silouhette, which makes truly for a fine science fiction RPG.

Yes! Someone else who knows about Silouhette. :smallbiggrin:

mudbunny
2007-09-05, 08:09 AM
A couple more questions:

1 - In WoD, can you play something other than mage/WW/Vampire?

2 - Edit - I have also been looking at Cyberpunk 2020. On the home page (http://talsorian.safeshopper.com/8/cat8.htm?550) they have a listing for both Cyberpunk v3 and Cyberpunk 2020. Same game, just v3 is newer??

3 - What about Mutants and Masterminds?

4 - The d20 system??

5 - GURPS??

6 - Silouhette??

Ashtar
2007-09-05, 08:38 AM
so:
1) In WoD, you usually play with one type of characters in one group (ie. all vamps, all mages or all weres). Mixing is something that is possible but I wouldn't encourage it. Each species has enough variations inside already to make it interesting. And yes, there's changeling and other supplements for other races. You will find rules to play humans, but they will be mostly VERY underpowered against "race" characters.

2) Having played Cy2020, It's a D6/D10 based system. The rules were okay, combat was pretty streamlined but things like netrunning, while very fluffy, can be annoying if not everyone plays a netrunner, since other classes are useless in there.
I can't say anything about V3, since I haven't played. I assume it's the next edition (203X is their base timeline).

3) Can't comment, don't know.

4) is DnD, basically. Transposed to whatever genre (D20 Modern, D20 StarWars Saga). Can be good, but it's still DnD!

5) Gurps (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/), Generic Universe RolePlaying System. A D6 based system, that uses character points to create your character. It's very flexible, and can go from fantasy to gritty realworld to hard sci-fi to over-the-top supers. I especially like their "Reign of Steel" setting, in which humanity has lost WWIII and is dominated by machines (ŕ la Terminator).
You can play any race / species / droid or anything you want to create and your DM allows you to have. I've had fun creating my family in Gurps close to normal points.

6) Silouhette (or SilCore) (http://www.dp9.com/Products/Corerules.htm) is also a generic RPG system allowing loads of settings. It is slightly aimed towards sci-fi, but can be used in any setting. I'd just say, try it. Have a look at the art gallery (http://www.dp9.com/Funhouse/DP9ART.htm) of some of their settings.

Jayabalard
2007-09-05, 09:01 AM
5) Gurps (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/), Generic Universe RolePlaying System. A D6 based system, that uses character points to create your character. It's very flexible, and can go from fantasy to gritty realworld to hard sci-fi to over-the-top supers. I especially like their "Reign of Steel" setting, in which humanity has lost WWIII and is dominated by machines (ŕ la Terminator).
You can play any race / species / droid or anything you want to create and your DM allows you to have. I've had fun creating my family in Gurps close to normal points.IMO, while you can just create characters in some genre's and start playing, GURPS generally takes a decent bit of work from the GM to finish the game; it is almost more of a framework for creating games than a game in and of itself. Just as a couple of examples:

GURPS Magic includes the primary magic system along with a bunch of variants for the magic system (Knacks, divine magic, varied mana levels, aspected mana, etc)

GURPS Time travel discusses many different types of time travel from fiction, presented in a format so that the GM can narrow it down to exactly the rules that they want; it supplies the questions (what times can people jump to, what can they take with them, can paradoxes happen, alternate timelines, etc) but the GM needs to supply answers to make it actually useful for that campaign.

Chris_Chandler
2007-09-05, 09:09 AM
I run and play in a number of long-standing GURPS games (two PbP), and love the system. There are a number of systems out there that are essentially crunch+fluff=system, that is, the rules and the backdrop to the campaign are a single entity, and that can cause problems if the fluff isn't really what you actually want to do. GURPS is a ruleset. You take that ruleset and build the campaign you want, be it low-tech, high magic, 4-color supers, or tech-heavy sci-fi. It is extremely flexible and intuitive. Steve Jackson games (www.sjgames.com) has a lot of information on the game. I'd highly recommend it.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-05, 09:13 AM
1 - In WoD, can you play something other than mage/WW/Vampire?
Yes. There's also rules for mortals, wraiths, demons, changelings, mummies, golems ("prometheans") and a variety of other shapeshifters. Storytellers are not advised to use all of these in a single campaign; some combinations work better than others. For instance, vampires and werewolves are archenemies, so a PC party consisting of both is as volatile as the proverbial LG paladin + CE assassin party.


3 - What about Mutants and Masterminds?
What about it? Can you play something other than a vampire?


5 - GURPS??
Warning: this is a very complex system, and not everybody's cup of tea. While it does offer a large variety of settings and permutations thereof, character creation and gameplay can be exceedingly slow due to the sheer amount of rules.

Jayabalard
2007-09-05, 09:30 AM
Warning: this is a very complex system, and not everybody's cup of tea. While it does offer a large variety of settings and permutations thereof, character creation and gameplay can be exceedingly slow due to the sheer amount of rules.I keep seeing this, but it doesn't make any sense to me. The base rules are very simple: roll 3d6, compare to the target.

Sure, they have alot of detailed rules if you want to be very realistic, but if you want to keep it simple you can.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-05, 09:34 AM
I keep seeing this, but it doesn't make any sense to me. The base rules are very simple: roll 3d6, compare to the target.

Oh, the resolution rule is easy: roll dice, compare to value. Then again, nearly every RPG works that way. You'll have to look a bit beyond that. There are literally thousands of traits and skills that interact, or are based upon one another. Finding out your "default" for an untrained skill is non-trivial, as is the amount of points you need to spend to increase a skill rank. Plus there are hundreds of listed circumstance modifiers to common actions.

Attilargh
2007-09-05, 09:55 AM
Yes. There's also rules for mortals, wraiths, demons, changelings, mummies, golems ("prometheans") and a variety of other shapeshifters..
You know, one really shouldn't mix new and old World like that.

In the old WoD, there were Vamps, Werewolves, Mages, Wraiths, Demons, Changelings, Mummies and supernaturally gifted mortals known as Hunters.

In the new World, Vamps, Werewolves and Mages haven't changed all that much. Wraiths are no longer really player-friendly (as in, they don't have a book of their own), Changelings are way different now and the closest thing to Mummies are the artificial Promethean, who are not really close to Mummies at all. Mortals... Well, they're just like you and me. Haven't heard a thing 'bout Demons.

ndragonsbane
2007-09-05, 10:02 AM
3 - What about Mutants and Masterminds?


I've played in and ran a few adventures in M & M. Overall, it's great if you and your friends are into comics/superhero cartoons, but the biggest problem I've found (since I am not really into either of the aforementioned mediums) is in maintaining a long-term campaign; I run out of ideas REALLY fast. If you think you or a friend can keep it up then I highly recommend M&M.

It uses a point-based system built around the framework of the d20 system and is pretty easy to learn and play.

mudbunny
2007-09-05, 10:08 AM
You know, one really shouldn't mix new and old World like that.

New world?? Old world??


In the old WoD, there were Vamps, Werewolves, Mages, Wraiths, Demons, Changelings, Mummies and supernaturally gifted mortals known as Hunters.

In the new World, Vamps, Werewolves and Mages haven't changed all that much. Wraiths are no longer really player-friendly (as in, they don't have a book of their own), Changelings are way different now and the closest thing to Mummies are the artificial Promethean, who are not really close to Mummies at all. Mortals... Well, they're just like you and me. Haven't heard a thing 'bout Demons.

So, like was said previously by Ashtar, mortals are pretty week, mostly cannon fodder, stuff like that.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-05, 10:11 AM
So, like was said previously by Ashtar, mortals are pretty week, mostly cannon fodder, stuff like that.

If you're a vamp, make sure you beware Tucker's Hunters. Like Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/), only mortal vampire hunters. I've fallen prey to these insidious people!

Ashtar
2007-09-05, 10:30 AM
I've never found the GURPS system to get in the way once you're playing. It takes a little time to make your character and to "level him up" (i.e. gain character points), but once you're in game, it's pretty straight forwards. But hey, YMMV.

Were-Sandwich
2007-09-05, 10:37 AM
Arrowflight is a fun lite fantasy RPG with a fairly original RPG and a good setting. I reccomend that. Traveller is fun if you want to kick it old skool, plus it can be very easy on the GM if you want (jsut use everything off the tables) as once you have a subsector set up with encounter tables, you can run many games without having to do much accept adjudicate.

Attilargh
2007-09-05, 10:47 AM
New world?? Old world??
Of Darkness.

See, originally the World of Darkness wasn't very coherent. The various systems were not designed to be played together: For example, I've heard the werewolves from Vampire: the Masquerade's antagonist section were far from the ones from Werewolf: the Apocalypse, and that the Werewolves pretty much ate the faces of even the eldest of Vampires. The metaplot was also getting more and more complicated with every new supplement, and in 2004 they ended all of the different storylines.

They re-released the World of Darkness line with the WoD Core Rulebook, which had the rules for playing humans only. The different monster books then add a template of sorts on top of the human character, and thus easily compare with each other. The rules were simplified a bit, and the background was left deliberately more vague than in the previous game. For example, the origin of Vampires is nowhere explicitly stated.

I'm a bit biased towards the new Word of Darkness, and consider it a pretty good system and a very interesting setting.

horseboy
2007-09-05, 10:48 AM
It's really too bad that the system turns me off so much after several attempts to play it. I do love all the work that goes into the setting and what not for it, kudos on that.

Whenever I want to play Rifts I always use SR2 rules. They're my preferred system anytime someone picks up a gun. Guns+hit points=:smallmad:

Winterwind
2007-09-05, 11:24 AM
Whenever I want to play Rifts I always use SR2 rules. They're my preferred system anytime someone picks up a gun. Guns+hit points=:smallmad:I agree with that; however, now you've made me curious: What's the advantage of SR2 compared to SR3? (Not having ever played a different edition than 3)

horseboy
2007-09-05, 12:34 PM
I agree with that; however, now you've made me curious: What's the advantage of SR2 compared to SR3? (Not having ever played a different edition than 3)

The main difference is I only glanced through SR3. :smallamused:
I didn't see a whole lot of differences, just a different organization of skills and a few bits and pieces.
So the advantage is I know SR2 better.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-05, 12:37 PM
In the new World, Vamps, Werewolves and Mages haven't changed all that much.

Really? I found vampires and magi to be very different. I've heard too many people claim that old vamps are much better, or that new vamps are much better, and virtually noone who considers the settings to be similar. Ymmv.

mudbunny
2007-09-05, 09:26 PM
Some more questions about WoD:

How varied can the adventures be?? What type of adventures are typical for the game?? For D&D, it is the dungeon crawl, or taking on the BBEG or something like that.

Anxe
2007-09-05, 09:32 PM
Shadowrun is great for online stuff.

horseboy
2007-09-05, 09:38 PM
Some more questions about WoD:

How varied can the adventures be?? What type of adventures are typical for the game?? For D&D, it is the dungeon crawl, or taking on the BBEG or something like that.

Generally, it's urban campaign. Instead of meeting at a bar, you meet at the night club. Hang out for a while, pick up a hot chick, take her some place dark and bite her. Then you find out it was some Get of Fenris's cousin. Run for your life.

Alternate, plot, scheme kill off a couple of older vampires, obtain power and regicide the "prince" of the city.

mudbunny
2007-09-05, 09:53 PM
Shadowrun is great for online stuff.

How so?? Are the mechanics well-suited to playing on-line??

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-05, 10:16 PM
Edit - I have also been looking at Cyberpunk 2020. On the home page (http://talsorian.safeshopper.com/8/cat8.htm?550) they have a listing for both Cyberpunk v3 and Cyberpunk 2020. Same game, just v3 is newer??

Cyberpunk v3 is a new version released in 2005 and does not have much beyond the core rules (as far as I can tell). Cyberpunk 2020 was released in 1990 so is somewhat dated but not too noticeable. I have had to update a few minor things but not much (though laser discs as the preferred media gets me every time). Personally, I have a bunch of CP2020 and it works great so I have no intention of updating, though trying to get some of the supplements is a pain. The Core rules of CP2020 are decent, but lack in the weapons department so I would suggest getting the "Blackhand's Street Weapons 2020" and the "Chrome X" books have all sorts of goodies.

On the topic of netrunners, I personally abhor the whole matrix thing. Therefore, netrunners are just normal modern hackers with extremely advanced programs that do everything autonomously and almost instantaneously. This way, the netrunner does not leave others out because it is just a series of checks to see if your program is good enough to disable such-such security and what have. Of course, the netrunner is very powerful in any infiltration team since everything is hooked up to the internet or some network and is vastly easier to access from inside. My netrunner have a lot of fun. Unfortunately one player though he could stand in plain view on a building across the street from a maximum security prison and snipe the guards and survive (good thing he was in a mafia and the trauma team doesn't ask question).

Jannex
2007-09-06, 12:33 AM
Some more questions about WoD:

How varied can the adventures be?? What type of adventures are typical for the game?? For D&D, it is the dungeon crawl, or taking on the BBEG or something like that.

Note that below, I'm talking about the original World of Darkness, not nWoD, as I have little experience with the latter.

It can vary a lot, based on which type of supernatural you're running, and what the individual characters are all about. A lot of the chronicles I've run or played tend to follow the general pattern of:


Find out about something strange that's been going on.
Investigate this strangeness, for any number of possible reasons.
Get caught up in an epic struggle to save/conquer/destroy/reinvent the world


Several of the sub-games have general plotlines which make it easy to find things for your PCs to do. In Werewolf, the PCs are warriors for the Spirit of Mother Earth. In Vampire, there are two major factions of vampires that have been at war with each other for centuries. In Mage, there's a super-organization of technomages that are out to destroy or otherwise normalize all things "supernatural"--including your PCs. In Changeling, there are nobles that your PCs might alternately work for or resent, nightmarish creatures they might fight, psychologists who might try to "cure" them of their "madness"... the possibilities are limitless.

Ultimately, it all depends on the type of game you want to run.

Beleriphon
2007-09-06, 12:55 AM
Besides those, Mutants and Masterminds is a fantastic system; it's meant for superhero games, but it can be used perfectly well for fantasy too (and Star Wars-ish sci-fi, I guess).

M&M Second Edition is spectactular for building anything you want. It does have a very comic book/action movie feel to it though. For Sci Fi adventures you'll end up with something more akin to Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon than I, Robot.

MrNexx
2007-09-06, 12:57 AM
I've always had too big problems with RIFTS. The first was the GM, who had severe difficulties limited the power level of the party. When everyone does and can take more Mega-Damage than most threats, it's pretty sad. While not strictly a problem with the game, it is a problem with the RIFTS universe.

That's really the GM's fault; Mega-Damage can get kind of wonky, especially when it's player-scale, but if your GM isn't challenging you, he's got work to do, elsewhere. Two words: Missile Volleys. Nothing says "You're screwed" like four missiles which you can't dodge fired from more than a mile away.


The other issue for me was always skills and leveling up. Your skills are sometimes horridly low, no matter how you tried. "I have a 38% chance to successfully pilot this spaceship, why are they letting me near the controls?" Is the biggest offender there. And as for leveling up, it means almost nothign for non-casting characters. The only real way for someone who doesn't cast spells to be more powerful is to get shinier gear, moreso than in say, D+D.

It's a very common complaint with the Palladium system; the joke I often hear is "What's the difference between a 1st level Juicer and a 10th level Juicer? 2 attacks and +3 to dodge". Even I get frustrated with their rules at times (in between getting interested with them for their elegance).

Palladium's based on an older gaming philosophy, much closer to 1st edition AD&D, where most of your character design is done at 1st level; leveling up represents an incremental increase in abilities which are set at 1st level, instead of a geometric increase in ability overall. If you've played (or looked through) a 1st edition Player's Handbook, especially at the thief class, you'll have a fair idea of how Palladium's system is set up.

There are a few ways you can fiddle with this. First of all, certain levels include the ability to learn new skills. What I give my players the option of doing is, instead of learning a new skill, is adding a bonus to an old skill (+10%), representing having spent some time on that skill in particular. You can also let people just "take ten" with skills; in the example of starship piloting, simply having the skill means you can do it in most circumstances; you'd only roll if you came into a stressful situation. More recent releases have also included modifiers for difficulty, similar to the tables from the Bio-Maintence Engineer from Invid Invasion and Sentinels (by the way, Palladium is likely to have the Robotech license back soon).

Swordguy
2007-09-06, 01:08 AM
More recent releases have also included modifiers for difficulty, similar to the tables from the Bio-Maintence Engineer from Invid Invasion and Sentinels (by the way, Palladium is likely to have the Robotech license back soon).



You have my full and complete attention.


(And re: Rifts, I never understood that whole "you hit on a 5+ on a d20" thing. I would have killed for a complete, 1 or 2-round combat example in one of the books when I was first learning the system.)

MrNexx
2007-09-06, 02:28 AM
[/B]
You have my full and complete attention.

http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=78503



(And re: Rifts, I never understood that whole "you hit on a 5+ on a d20" thing. I would have killed for a complete, 1 or 2-round combat example in one of the books when I was first learning the system.)

Here's how it works.

The attacker rolls. If the total of the die and the bonuses is greater than 4, he hits, unless the target defends himself (by parrying or dodging).

So, let's say we're fighting in hand to hand combat, between Bob and Kenny. Bob has a +2 to Strike, a +4 to parry and dodge, and Kenny has a +3 to strike and a +3 to Parry and Dodge. They both have 3 attacks a round, and may automatically parry (that means parrying doesn't cost them a melee attack to do it; dodging still does). Bob wins the initiative, so he goes first.

Bob punches at Kenny, and rolls a 2. With a +2 to strike, that only totals 4. He automatically misses, since its not five or higher.

Kenny punches at Bob, and rolls a 10, for a total of 13. Bob tries to parry, rolling an 11, giving him a total of 15. He parries, so Kenny doesn't do any damage.

Bob punches back, rolling a natural 20. Kenny can only parry this with another natural 20; he rolls a 5. Bob hits for double damage, since that's a critical hit.

Kenny punches Bob, rolling a 15, for a total of 18. Bob decides NOT to parry, and instead punches Kenny again; he's not defending himself, but Kenny can't, either. Bob rolls a 5, which is good enough to hit. They both do normal damage, because neither one can defend against a simultaneous attack.

Kenny has one attack left, and Bob has none. Kenny punches Bob, rolling a 6 (total 9), and Bob parries (total 8), meaning Kenny gets in one last punch before initiative is rolled for the next round.

That was a pretty simple combat; two people punching each other. No one in power armor or anything like that.

Swordguy
2007-09-06, 02:39 AM
That's pretty much what I thought...the issue came with people having +10 or more to strike. Auto-hit right? And the actual roll to strike only matters because it sets the parry difficulty?


Bob punches at Kenny. With his HTH:Expert bonuses, and his PP in the mid 20's, he's got a +8 to strike, so he...

Naturally, Kenny has to roll equal to or better than Bob to parry the attack, Natural 20's excepted.


(This is the last of the threadjack, I promise - this has been bugging me for years and it's nice to talk to someone who works in the system for confirmation. We've felt we had to be missing something somewhere, because a 5 seemed like such a low number.)

Kurald Galain
2007-09-06, 02:56 AM
How varied can the adventures be?? What type of adventures are typical for the game?

Very.

For vampire, common themes are the struggle within yourself, political maneuvering, screwing over mortals, getting revenge on other vamps (or getting revenge from them) and running away from werewolves.

For werewolf, common themes are eco-raids, spirit quests, tribal rites and politics, alpha-dominance fights, taking down nasty BBEG monsters, and storytelling around the proverbial campfire.

For mage, common themes are vision quests, finding out what the heck is going on with weird stuff, hiding from the government, and practical philosophy.

Other settings (changeling, demon, etc) are similarly varied.

Jannex
2007-09-06, 03:41 AM
Very.

For vampire, common themes are the struggle within yourself, political maneuvering, screwing over mortals, getting revenge on other vamps (or getting revenge from them) and running away from werewolves.

For werewolf, common themes are eco-raids, spirit quests, tribal rites and politics, alpha-dominance fights, taking down nasty BBEG monsters, and storytelling around the proverbial campfire.

For mage, common themes are vision quests, finding out what the heck is going on with weird stuff, hiding from the government, and practical philosophy.

Other settings (changeling, demon, etc) are similarly varied.

Well said, and in more detail than I went into. Good post.

mudbunny
2007-09-06, 08:33 AM
Very.

For vampire, common themes are the struggle within yourself, political maneuvering, screwing over mortals, getting revenge on other vamps (or getting revenge from them) and running away from werewolves.

For werewolf, common themes are eco-raids, spirit quests, tribal rites and politics, alpha-dominance fights, taking down nasty BBEG monsters, and storytelling around the proverbial campfire.

For mage, common themes are vision quests, finding out what the heck is going on with weird stuff, hiding from the government, and practical philosophy.

Other settings (changeling, demon, etc) are similarly varied.

Thanks to you and Jannex for the details. Do they have pre-prepared adventures that you can purchase or buy that would give a newb to the system a heads up on what type of missions are good for whomever, or is this pretty clearly described in the core books??

Monney Dhoo
2007-09-06, 08:49 AM
Most of setting is well described in the core books, but there are pre-made adventures available on the internet. These are called the Storytelling Adventure System.

Attilargh
2007-09-06, 09:15 AM
Really? I found vampires and magi to be very different. I've heard too many people claim that old vamps are much better, or that new vamps are much better, and virtually noone who considers the settings to be similar. Ymmv.
Well, when compared to how much Changeling changed, they've been pretty stable. :smalltongue: But yes, there have been substantial changes in the mechanics and especially the backstory.

By the way, is the vampire-werewolf animosity still present in the nWoD? I haven't seen a thing about it in what I've read.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-06, 11:35 AM
Thanks to you and Jannex for the details. Do they have pre-prepared adventures that you can purchase or buy that would give a newb to the system a heads up on what type of missions are good for whomever, or is this pretty clearly described in the core books??

Types of missions are well-outlined in the core books. Actual full-scale missions are not, but there are adventure modules for sale, as well as settings books (e.g. that outline an entire city to play in), and there are also lots of things on the internet.

Note that in (most) Whitewolf games you have more freedom than in the average published D&D adventure - D&D modules are more likely to give you a line of events to follow, WW modules are more likely to give you a situation to work with as the characters see fit.


Attilargh - I haven't seen NWOD changeling yet, I'll look into that. To my knowledge Vamps still don't like Garou much, although they're less the proverbial bump in the night. But I have so many OWOD books that I tend to use those rather than re-invest :)

horseboy
2007-09-06, 01:13 PM
Types of missions are well-outlined in the core books. Actual full-scale missions are not, but there are adventure modules for sale, as well as settings books (e.g. that outline an entire city to play in), and there are also lots of things on the internet.

Note that in (most) Whitewolf games you have more freedom than in the average published D&D adventure - D&D modules are more likely to give you a line of events to follow, WW modules are more likely to give you a situation to work with as the characters see fit.


Very true, instead of there being box text and a map keyed to certain encounters, WoD modules tend(ed) to be outlines of a plot. They told you the NPC's motivation, what their plan was and what tools they had at their disposal. They would describe the surroundings, then leave it up to you. There's a reason that they call their DM Storytellers.

I know that Werewolf had a module called: "Rite of Passage". It's designed to be the troupe's first game in the series. All in all, it's not bad. It will show you just how different you're "DMing" will have to change for the system to be done right.

Cybren
2007-09-06, 01:26 PM
Oh, the resolution rule is easy: roll dice, compare to value. Then again, nearly every RPG works that way. You'll have to look a bit beyond that. There are literally thousands of traits and skills that interact, or are based upon one another. Finding out your "default" for an untrained skill is non-trivial, as is the amount of points you need to spend to increase a skill rank. Plus there are hundreds of listed circumstance modifiers to common actions.

Of course, you ignore any trait you don't have, since... you don't have it, and it won't interact with anything. The various circumstance modifiers can be ignored in favor of the general Task Difficulty Modifier table, which is simply a flat penalty or bonus based on how hard the GM thinks your attempt is.

MrNexx
2007-09-06, 05:55 PM
That's pretty much what I thought...the issue came with people having +10 or more to strike. Auto-hit right? And the actual roll to strike only matters because it sets the parry difficulty?

Right. Unless there are penalties on the roll for some reason (shooting wild, for example), then the character will automatically hit unless the target defends.

Oh, and Kevin did a podcast today. Robotech is signed, sealed, and delivered.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-06, 06:04 PM
Of course, you ignore any trait you don't have, since... you don't have it, and it won't interact with anything.
Well, the fact that you can invoke Rule Zero and ignore any of them does not change the fact that GURPS really does have a lot of rules - just like restricting PCs to PHB base classes does not change the fact that D&D really does have a gazillion of presclasses. Whether you actually use the rules or not, both D&D and GURPS are way more rules-heavy than, say, OTE, or Amber DRP, or Squeam.