Pure Evoker Wizard in Adventurer's League or splash in a level of Hexblade Warlock?

[Deathtongue]

I'm a level 4 AL Wizard who needs to solidify their character build soon, since you can't rebuild at or after level 5. And I'm strongly thinking of splashing in a level of Hexblade Warlock.

Pure wizard advantages are obvious: get everything earlier and, more cogently, you get a 'better' (read: more powergamey) stat spread.

A level of Hexblade Warlock would give me the following benefits: Hexblade's Curse for a huge spike in single-target blasting; Melf's Minute Meteor + Fire Bolt/Eldritch Blast becomes a boss-killer, a much better AC, a couple additional cantrips, some spell slots that replenish on a short rest for more Shield/Absorb Elements goodness, and the Hex* spell I can put into a Ring of Spell Storing I can eventually buy as a Harper's Agent.

Of course, the standard issues of being behind a level in spells and having a stat spread that conflicts with that of a pure wizard (13 Cha, minimum, and probably 14 CHA if I want to use Eldritch Blast).

Personally, I'm leaning towards putting in the level of Hexblade Warlock, though I'm open to other suggestions. I think being able to put Hex in a ring of Spell Storing for my familiar to spam Magic Missiles with is just too good.

* A strict RAW reading of Hex makes it incompatible with Magic Missile, but a strict RAW reading makes it and Empowered Evocation completely overpowered. And I've NEVER seen an actual DM at a table rule Magic Missile as Not An Attack, even the FAQ/Errata-reading DMs.

[Deathtongue]

Anyway, I'm interested in Evoker after reading some of the new Xanathar's Spells. A lot of marginal spells such as Storm Sphere and Whirlwind and Dawn could potentially become crazy in their hands. And frankly, situations where Fireball becomes an exercise in potential TK (or a huge cutting down on targets) happens far too often for my tastes.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think in general you would benefit more from a fighter 1 dip than you would from a warlock dip, even going so far as to say fighter is your starting class rather than wizard. This is a common optimization trick I've seen used around, it gives you better saves and a little bit more HP. You're also already likely to have a 13+ in dex (or str if eldritch knight is your goal). I think a 2 level dip into fighter would offer you more of the power you're looking for.

I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say a strict raw reading makes empowered evocation and hex overpowered. A strict raw reading makes Magic Missile not proc Hex, Hex is an enchantment spell and therefore doesn't benefit from empowered evocation.

By raw, Magic Missile is not an attack because making an attack involves rolling for that attack, whether from a weapon or as part of casting a spell. Casting a spell is a distinctly different action unless that spell specifies that you make an attack roll as part of the casting of the spell.

[Deathtongue]

I think in general you would benefit more from a fighter 1 dip than you would from a warlock dip, even going so far as to say fighter is your starting class rather than wizard. This is a common optimization trick I've seen used around, it gives you better saves and a little bit more HP. You're also already likely to have a 13+ in dex (or str if eldritch knight is your goal). I think a 2 level dip into fighter would offer you more of the power you're looking for.I don't want to dip 2 levels of anything, TBH. Delaying spells is murder on an Evoker.

As far as a single-level dip of fighter goes: the heavy armor benefit isn't worth much, since I will be dumping strength and I don't want to move at 20 feet. +1/+2 AC over Hexblade is very tempting, though. The CON save is a wash, since you lose out on WIS saves, and you will want both sooner than later. The real pain in the neck for a first-level fighter dip is the skills. History / Perception is the obvious choice, but you know what? In my almost three years experience with AL, if you're not great at Perception it's pretty much the same as not having it. So you're down a skill.

Warlock gives two extra spell slots and Hexblade's Curse, which will go nicely with Catnap (itself a great spell in AL with certain party setups) at higher levels.

If Warlock wasn't an option, I'd definitely go Fighter, though. Not having a good AC is a real pain in the neck and Shield + Mage Armor + Bracers of Armor/Cloak of Protection just doesn't cut the mustard in the middle levels.


I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say a strict raw reading makes empowered evocation and hex overpowered.Sorry, I misspoke. Hex doesn't do anything by itself RAW. It's the Empowered Evocation.

What I was getting at is that the irony of a strict RAW person who disallowed Hex + Magic Missile would have to allow Magic Missile + Empowered Evocations, which is even more powerful. Well, unless they were a Gygaxian DM who was all 'RAW applies when it screws you, but not when it benefits you'. They do exist, but Magic Missile is IMX enough of an 'attack' in the language of common sense that even the Errata/FAQ readers overlook that part in actual play.

I've never heard of Empowered Evocation + Magic Missile being allowed, anyway.

One other benefit of Hex I forgot to mention: putting it in a ring of Spell Storing for your familiar to use is very synergistic with certain strategies, such as Web, Transmute Rock, Telekinesis, Phantasmal Force, Infernal Calling, Black Tentacles, etc.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I think in general you would benefit more from a fighter 1 dip than you would from a warlock dip, even going so far as to say fighter is your starting class rather than wizard. This is a common optimization trick I've seen used around, it gives you better saves and a little bit more HP. You're also already likely to have a 13+ in dex (or str if eldritch knight is your goal). I think a 2 level dip into fighter would offer you more of the power you're looking for.

I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say a strict raw reading makes empowered evocation and hex overpowered. A strict raw reading makes Magic Missile not proc Hex, Hex is an enchantment spell and therefore doesn't benefit from empowered evocation.

By raw, Magic Missile is not an attack because making an attack involves rolling for that attack, whether from a weapon or as part of casting a spell. Casting a spell is a distinctly different action unless that spell specifies that you make an attack roll as part of the casting of the spell.

I endorse this post, though I'd prefer straight wizard to Ftr 1/2 into wizard.

Magic missile is not an attack, and there is no reading that would make it thus. Hex and magic missile do not interact. The Hexblade's Curse feature works differently but I don't think it's worth a level in warlock. And if you're going to go for two levels in warlock for the agonizing blast invocation, you may as well just go sorcerer.



Sorry, I misspoke. Hex doesn't do anything by itself RAW. It's the Empowered Evocation.

What I was getting at is that the irony of a strict RAW person who disallowed Hex + Magic Missile would have to allow Magic Missile + Empowered Evocations, which is even more powerful. Well, unless they were a Gygaxian DM who was all 'RAW applies when it screws you, but not when it benefits you'. They do exist, but Magic Missile is IMX enough of an 'attack' in the language of common sense that even the Errata/FAQ readers overlook that part in actual play.

I've never heard of Empowered Evocation + Magic Missile being allowed, anyway.


Magic missile plus Empowered Evocations is fine. Adding your Int mod to one of your d4s when casting magic missile is hardly overwhelming. And it still doesn't interact with hex.

[sophontteks]

Its not just about the final product. You are totally screwing yourself in the short run. Your evocation wizard specializes in big AOEs. Big AOEs that you will have no access to bevause you've taken levels in warlock. Warlock, a caster that doesn't even use intelligence to cast.

By the time this comes online its benefit is still questionable.

[MeeposFire]

I endorse this post, though I'd prefer straight wizard to Ftr 1/2 into wizard.

Magic missile is not an attack, and there is no reading that would make it thus. Hex and magic missile do not interact. The Hexblade's Curse feature works differently but I don't think it's worth a level in warlock. And if you're going to go for two levels in warlock for the agonizing blast invocation, you may as well just go sorcerer.



Magic missile plus Empowered Evocations is fine. Adding your Int mod to one of your d4s when casting magic missile is hardly overwhelming. And it still doesn't interact with hex.

Actually due to the specific wording of all the abilities when it comes to the evoker ability you add the int mod to each missile. It was ruled on in a sage post and as I recall it did explain it though like many of his rulings it is a very precise wording sort of ruling (some might even call it a rules lawyer type ruling).

[Blood of Gaea]

Why not just grab Hex through Magic Initiate? You get a bit of what you want, but don't hurt your spell progression.

EDIT: Missed this was an AL game and therefor homebrew is not allowed. You simply cannot use the Hex/Magic Missile combo you're talking about.

[Malifice]

Go Wizard 5 and grab [fireball, fly, dispel magic, counterspell].

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Actually due to the specific wording of all the abilities when it comes to the evoker ability you add the int mod to each missile. It was ruled on in a sage post and as I recall it did explain it though like many of his rulings it is a very precise wording sort of ruling (some might even call it a rules lawyer type ruling).

Right, because magic missile isn't xd4+x damage anymore; it's now x(1d4+1), meaning it's one damage roll. Jeremy talked about it on Twitter (which is such a stupid place for rulings). Fine, corrected, it's still not overpowered.

[Strangways]

I'm a level 4 AL Wizard who needs to solidify their character build soon, since you can't rebuild at or after level 5. And I'm strongly thinking of splashing in a level of Hexblade Warlock.

Pure wizard advantages are obvious: get everything earlier and, more cogently, you get a 'better' (read: more powergamey) stat spread.

A level of Hexblade Warlock would give me the following benefits: Hexblade's Curse for a huge spike in single-target blasting; Melf's Minute Meteor + Fire Bolt/Eldritch Blast becomes a boss-killer, a much better AC, a couple additional cantrips, some spell slots that replenish on a short rest for more Shield/Absorb Elements goodness, and the Hex* spell I can put into a Ring of Spell Storing I can eventually buy as a Harper's Agent.

Of course, the standard issues of being behind a level in spells and having a stat spread that conflicts with that of a pure wizard (13 Cha, minimum, and probably 14 CHA if I want to use Eldritch Blast).

Having to put 13 points into CHA, a dump stat for wizards, and losing your wizard capstone is a high price to pay for what you get. The only really major benefit is medium armor and, while that’s nice, I don’t think it’s worth it.

[TheUser]

Pure Invoker is going to net you the most satisfaction (invoker is the 2nd Edition term I prefer to "Evoker" which sounds weird when spoken), those levels you'd have had access to gamebreaking spells but don't because of multiclass suck (sickening radiance, dawn +sculpt spells is OP).

The benefits of Hexblade multiclass are minimal compared to the costs (you are gambling in hopes DM's will allow your broken combo when no attack roll is made).

1 level of fighter gives 20 AC with defensive fighting style + medium armor as well as con save proficiency. #worth You will take way less damage and concentrate on way more spells.

[Deathtongue]

I don't really see CON proficiency by itself as an advantage over the INT/WIS spread of a wizard or the CHA/WIS spread of a warlock.

If I had WIS proficiency but not CON proficiency, I'd pick Resilient: CON at level 1 or 4. If I had CON proficiency but not WIS proficiency, I'd pick Resilient: WIS by level 8, at the latest. In fact, it's a minor disadvantage, since a lot of wizards want to go at least 14 in CON while most wizards go 8 - 12 for WIS -- and Resilient benefits you more the higher your stat already is.

I've seen Barbarians and Rogues and Sorcerers get near-perma-stunned by an upcasted Hold Person and it was not pretty for the rest of the party to have to suddenly shift to dogpiling the Mummy Lord to try to break its concentration. Dang Bag of Beans.

--

That said, having to get 13-14 CHA for the multiclass is a legitimate bummer. That's probably the best argument against the multiclass.


Having to put 13 points into CHA, a dump stat for wizards, and losing your wizard capstone is a high price to pay for what you get. The only really major benefit is medium armor and, while that’s nice, I don’t think it’s worth it.Medium Armor and shield. Not that big of a deal in most games, but a huge deal for Adventurer's League where more magical items are available. Going from 15-16 AC to 19 AC is one thing, but going from 16 - 18 to 19 - 23 is a big effin' deal.


EDIT: Missed this was an AL game and therefor homebrew is not allowed. You simply cannot use the Hex/Magic Missile combo you're talking about.The problem is that if a DM declares Hex + Magic Missile invalid because of RAW, they have to allow the Magic Missile + Empowered Evocation -- which is even better. That, or just admit they're houseruling a double-standard to tamp down on a (rather weak) combo.

And as far as I'm concerned, getting the DM to admit they're initiating a Gygaxian double-standard is the ur-victory of which all lesser powergamer victories flow.