What's the problem with using this build?

[newguydude1]

hey guys, im the guy in gogogomes game that is using the giant clock. he showed me the post where he asked you guys about my build and i saw that a lot of people had a problem with me using that build like that lord khaine guy. so could you tell me why using that build was a bad thing?

the thread giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556764-How-do-you-challenge-a-Gargantuan-Animated-Object
the build giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?554435-Sorcerer-Master-of-Animate-Objects-and-Planar-Binding

i like clockwork robots. they look cool so i want to use it in a game but when i used effigies i became that guy who got really grubby with money to the point where all i did was say how much money did we make. my old dm didnt go by wbl so in the end i built one effigy at the end of the campaign and i was really not happy and it died to a disintegrate just like that which is why i was so happy i found that build online cause it let me make clockwork robots for free so i can lose one to disintegrate without a problem and not be that guy who constantly asks the dm for more money.

[JNAProductions]

It's too powerful for that person's game. It's not an inherently borked build, but it is of such power that one should be careful when they use it.

[Deophaun]

i like clockwork robots. they look cool so i want to use it in a game
Re-fluff a warforged. Done.

[Nifft]

If you want permanent servitors, they're going to cost you. Effigies seem to cost more than usual for some reason.

There are some potential work-arounds:

- Leadership, and your cohort is a Warforged (fluffed to be clockwork because why not).
- Leadership, and your followers are also Warforged (also clockwork).
- The psionic power Astral Construct, and the constructs are all clockwork.
- You are a Warforged, yet again fluffed to be clockwork.
- Research some custom spells which animate clockwork undead. These are either exactly like regular undead (except clockwork and you pay for the research), or they're not exactly the same and you pay even more for the research.
- Research some custom spells which bind extraplanar constructs. Base the spell cost & benefits on either planar ally or one of the Inevitable-calling spells.

[Vizzerdrix]

I want to say that Ive seen a clockwork template for constructs ssomeplace.

[JyP]

hey guys, im the guy in gogogomes game that is using the giant clock. he showed me the post where he asked you guys about my build and i saw that a lot of people had a problem with me using that build like that lord khaine guy. so could you tell me why using that build was a bad thing?
There's no problem with the build itself I think - there's other parts of D&D allowing to something similar in concept, for example a hobbit on a wyrmling gold dragon (with dragon cohort feat). Main issue is whenever your PC is so powerful that other PCs can't compete with their own shtick - the giant robot is great to fight other giant foes, but it should not kill all small monsters in place of a PC fighter - because what can the PC fighter do otherwise ?

For verisimilitude, I cannot see a giant robot fighting in small tunnels fitted by dwarves or kobolds - it's too big, and what is the use to create dungeons if a mecha can lay waste to them :smallbiggrin:

It should really shine in outdoor battles though - maybe other sorcerers are trained for big battles between mecha in your fantasy world, or you are the first one to do so... if this is so, raise your own army, lay waste to other towns, and take your own kingdom by force ! Until other sorcerers do the same trick of course :smallwink:

[newguydude1]

what is refluff and how do i build clockwork warforged and how much does it cost?

i thought you werent supposed to use leadership cause everyone says its broken? also don't you get a penalty if your cohort dies to disintegrate?

if the only reason using that build was a bad thing was because i started taking the fighter and barbarians kills, why did that lord khaine guy kept saying im horrible for pages and pages?

[JyP]

what is refluff and how do i build clockwork warforged and how much does it cost?
Refluff is only to change appearance, not mechanisms. So warforged, which are a kind of construct made through magic, could be said to be made with clockworks instead - you are a clockworck automaton, using warforged rules.


i thought you werent supposed to use leadership cause everyone says its broken? also don't you get a penalty if your cohort dies to disintegrate?
Leadership is broken only if you are focusing on doing small scale combat exclusively : adding a companion + followers will wreak havoc on skirmish simulation - having to simulate 20+ followers cannot be done with basic D&D combat rules. But if you start your mercenary troup, it's bullseyes. You get a penalty to recruit other followers if those you recruted first are killed quickly.

[DeTess]

if the only reason using that build was a bad thing was because i started taking the fighter and barbarians kills, why did that lord khaine guy kept saying im horrible for pages and pages?

I didn't follow that thread, so I don't know whether 'that lord khaine guy' was being reasonable and polite or horrible and obnoxious. However, completely marginalizing two people in your party is a pretty bad thing to do, and something someone should be called out on (in a polite manner, of course). After all, if you marginalize others like that, they won't be having fun.

[Deophaun]

what is refluff and how do i build clockwork warforged and how much does it cost?
When it comes to systems, there is fluff and crunch. Crunch is how things works; it's the numbers on your sheet, it's how your feats interact with actions, it's how your creature type determines what spells affect you, etc. etc.

Fluff is how you present the crunch. Do your winged boots sprout hawk wings, bat wings, or wings of shadowstuff? Do they actually create little tornadoes under the heel? It has no impact on how the boots perform, they give you the same fly speed and can be countered by the same measures and activate the same. The only thing that has changed is their description.

So, when you refluff a warforged to make it clockwork, you just take a warforged, build it as you would a warforged character, and at the end you say "and I'm made out of gears." When you repair yourself you use the same skills, but you say that you're popping the gears back into place. There is no feat to take, no class to dip, no item to buy. Just say that's what you are, and you are.


if the only reason using that build was a bad thing was because i started taking the fighter and barbarians kills, why did that lord khaine guy kept saying im horrible for pages and pages?
Because internet, that's why.

[Pleh]

A lot of people in the other thread were overreacting.

Your DM and your group seem to be completely fine with what you're doing. The people who wanted to villainize you probably have had bad experiences with players who actually WANTED to marginalize their fellow party members to get the power trip out of it (and they've mistaken you for being one of these people).

Your DM posted because you've created a character that is difficult to challenge without putting the rest of the party way in over their heads.

You can help by thinking of ways to make sure the other players can do their thing. Just because you can smash everything on the field doesn't mean you always need to be the one to do it. Have friends provide flanking bonuses, focus on destroying local sources of cover the enemy is using so your friends can attack them directly, just think of strategies that rely on cooperation as much as the clockwork tank.

The ONLY thing you could possibly be doing wrong is spoiling the fun for your friends, so just make sure that isn't happening as you play your character. That's really the only thing that needs to be changed.

Your DM has been abundantly clear that there isn't any actual need for you to change anything about your character or build. We just need to figure out how the other players can still be important as equal participants.

[newguydude1]

dm is working with everyone to make encounters fun for all not just me so i guess there is no problem. i worry for nothing. thank you.

i like clockwork warforged, maybe my next character, but i like ancient gear golem from yugioh and warforged cant become ancient gear golem so i got to make one which is why i think ill keep my current sorcerer for now.

[Nifft]

dm is working with everyone to make encounters fun for all not just me so i guess there is no problem. i worry for nothing. thank you.

i like clockwork warforged, maybe my next character, but i like ancient gear golem from yugioh and warforged cant become ancient gear golem so i got to make one which is why i think ill keep my current sorcerer for now.

There's a transformational class which turns an Arcane spellcaster into a Warforged -- the Renegade Mastermaker from Magic of Eberron (p.81).

It's weird, but it might do what you want.

Here are the prereqs:


Skills: Craft (armorsmithing) 8 ranks or Craft (blacksmithing) 8 ranks or Craft (gemcutting) 8 ranks or Craft (sculpting) 8 ranks
Feats: Craft Magic Arms and Armor , Craft Wondrous Item
Type: Humanoid.


If you can somehow get a feat at 5th level for Craft Magic Arms & Armor, then you could enter after Sorcerer 5.

A Wizard does get a bonus feat at level 5, so maybe your DM will be lenient.

(Or you could go Sorc 5 / Mindbender 1 / Renegade Mastermaker 10).

[Karl Aegis]

It's the idea that you can take a turn in combat without actually being in combat. Medium creatures cannot end their movement in another creature's square in combat. You're still making saves and directing your spell as if you were in combat. You shouldn't be in another creature's square while you're in combat. You can't be in combat while you're not in combat. It doesn't make sense.

[Pleh]

It's the idea that you can take a turn in combat without actually being in combat. Medium creatures cannot end their movement in another creature's square in combat. You're still making saves and directing your spell as if you were in combat. You shouldn't be in another creature's square while you're in combat. You can't be in combat while you're not in combat. It doesn't make sense.

This pedantic RAW argument has been overruled by the DM as an exception to these limitations. There is nothing wrong.

[RoboEmperor]

It's the idea that you can take a turn in combat without actually being in combat. Medium creatures cannot end their movement in another creature's square in combat. You're still making saves and directing your spell as if you were in combat. You shouldn't be in another creature's square while you're in combat. You can't be in combat while you're not in combat. It doesn't make sense.

Didn't someone point out the ride/mount rules in the other thread in response to this?

In any case 100% of your claims in the other thread were wrong, like constructs being unable to make skill checks.

[Karl Aegis]

Didn't someone point out the ride/mount rules in the other thread in response to this?

In any case 100% of your claims in the other thread were wrong, like constructs being unable to make skill checks.

Well, excuse me for believing the topic was about a Gargantuan Animated Object. I was wrong. It's obvious now that the creatures described are not, in fact, the ones described in the Monster Manual and are homebrewed creatures that just happen to have the same name. Something with the See in Darkness(Su) ability and an intelligence score because there's no way it's going to see a babau with 1 wisdom and no skill ranks while distracted, let alone know to attack anything that isn't immediately threatening to the ravid that's.... mounted?? inside.

[RoboEmperor]

Well, excuse me for believing the topic was about a Gargantuan Animated Object. I was wrong. It's obvious now that the creatures described are not, in fact, the ones described in the Monster Manual and are homebrewed creatures that just happen to have the same name. Something with the See in Darkness(Su) ability and an intelligence score because there's no way it's going to see a babau with 1 wisdom and no skill ranks while distracted, let alone know to attack anything that isn't immediately threatening to the ravid that's.... mounted?? inside.

1. All constructs have Dark Vision. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm
2. "Each such animated object then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate." http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm
3. Official d&d encounters use creatures being inside other creatures. Check out the Ember Guard in MMV for example. It directly states a flamebrother salamander may stay inside an Ember Guard indefinitely.
4. Mount rules is one example that disproves your absurd claim that creatures cannot share the same space as another creature.

It's not a homebrew creature. It's just you who fail to understand the rules and is insisting on bending the rules to pass your house rules as RAW.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I want to say that Ive seen a clockwork template for constructs ssomeplace.

Advanced Bestiary has a clockwork template that turns things into clockwork construct. Combine with the LA+0 template that lets you play a construct and go ham.

[Vizzerdrix]

Advanced Bestiary has a clockwork template that turns things into clockwork construct. Combine with the LA+0 template that lets you play a construct and go ham.

Clockwork ham construct? Mmmmmm clockwork sammich om nom nom nom...

[ericgrau]

I think I remember that. If it's a cool fun build (IIRC it is) then ask the DM to let you use it but bring down the power somehow. If possible try to find the specific abilities that are too strong for your level and gaming group and get them nerfed down to par.

[Karl Aegis]

1. All constructs have Dark Vision. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm
2. "Each such animated object then immediately attacks whomever or whatever you initially designate." http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm
3. Official d&d encounters use creatures being inside other creatures. Check out the Ember Guard in MMV for example. It directly states a flamebrother salamander may stay inside an Ember Guard indefinitely.
4. Mount rules is one example that disproves your absurd claim that creatures cannot share the same space as another creature.

It's not a homebrew creature. It's just you who fail to understand the rules and is insisting on bending the rules to pass your house rules as RAW.

Okay, one thing at a time. Why do you believe a spot check is not necessary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) when a creature has a miss chance due to magical darkness? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)

[Deophaun]

Okay, one thing at a time. Why do you believe a spot check is not necessary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) when a creature has a miss chance due to magical darkness? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)
Why do you believe that it is? Better yet, what is the DC for a human in magical darkness?

[Karl Aegis]

Why do you believe that it is? Better yet, what is the DC for a human in magical darkness?

It has a miss chance due to poor visibility; DC 0, factor in relevant modifiers such as distance, if spotter is distracted, or if spotter's natural tendencies is to not make spot checks. Spot checks may be impossible if circumstances do not permit spot checks. Circumstances may include lack of visual prowess, terrain or complete lack of light (in the case of Blacklight spells).

[RoboEmperor]

Okay, one thing at a time. Why do you believe a spot check is not necessary (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spot.htm) when a creature has a miss chance due to magical darkness? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm)

If a Babau is hiding from the Gargantuan Animated Object using his Darkness Spell, you are correct, the Animated Object cannot see the Babau and therefore cannot attack until it passes a spot check. So if the Babau is constantly attacking using a standard action (not full attack) and using its move action to hide again, you are correct that the Animated Object will most likely be unable to attack the Babau, ever, considering the Babau's hide check is +19 and the Gargantuan Animated Object's Wisdom is 1.

The only way the Gargantuan Animated Object can land a hit is if someone on the party detects the Babau, and tells everyone which square the Babau is in, and the Gargantuan Animated Object attacks that square (which means it has a 50% chance to miss).

If you completely agree with what I just said then we were arguing because of a misunderstanding on my part, at least on this issue. I thought you were talking about normal darkness not magical darkness.

[Deophaun]

It has a miss chance due to poor visibility;
I see nothing under the Spot description that says miss chance = Spot check, nor do I see anything under darkness that indicates it requires a Spot check.

DC 0
Where? Book and page number, please.

[RoboEmperor]

I see nothing under the Spot description that says miss chance = Spot check, nor do I see anything under darkness that indicates it requires a Spot check.

It's under hiding not spot.

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm

So I think he's wrong on some issues, but he is correct that a creature actively hiding requires an opposed spot check while under concealment.

[Karl Aegis]

I see nothing under the Spot description that says miss chance = Spot check, nor do I see anything under darkness that indicates it requires a Spot check.

Where? Book and page number, please.

It's very easy to notice a large object in plain sight. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#difficultyClass)

A forest fire adds the size modifier of a colossal creature to the spot check to notice it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#forestFiresCr6)

Honestly, if you can fail to spot a forest fire when it isn't trying to hide, you can fail to spot a human when it isn't trying to hide.


The ravid ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ravid.htm) is not a spell-like ability. It's a supernatural ability. It behaves exactly as the supernatural ability describes it.
"These objects defend the ravid to the best of their ability" instead of immediately attacking a designated target. You can direct the ability as normal because it infers the ravid chooses not to, not that it can't. Unless you have some proof that it doesn't behave exactly as written?

[RoboEmperor]

The ravid ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ravid.htm) is not a spell-like ability. It's a supernatural ability. It behaves exactly as the supernatural ability describes it.
"These objects defend the ravid to the best of their ability" instead of immediately attacking a designated target. You can direct the ability as normal because it infers the ravid chooses not to, not that it can't. Unless you have some proof that it doesn't behave exactly as written?

I don't understand what your point is. If you're saying the ravid must spend a move action to make it go somewhere or attack the target you want then I have no disagreements.

[Karl Aegis]

Okay, third point. Are these creatures inside other creatures rolling initiative at all? They might be using the general rules for movement out of combat instead of the general rules for movement in combat. Are they using exceptions to the general rule of not being able to end movement in another creature's square like Tiny or smaller creatures or swarms? Maybe a spelled out exception like Siege Crabs? Exceptions such as grapple or swallow whole? Incorporeality? Demonic possession? Being in a different square above the creature in the case of flight? In a howdah above the creature? Platforms built into the side of and/or around the creature? Assumed to be in the same square for simplicity's sake, as in the case of mounted combat? Hanging off the side of a mount for cover? Technically not existing or untargetable at the time, in case of antimagic field and haunt shift, respectively? What's going on with these creatures?

[Pleh]

Okay, third point. Are these creatures inside other creatures rolling initiative at all? They might be using the general rules for movement out of combat instead of the general rules for movement in combat. Are they using exceptions to the general rule of not being able to end movement in another creature's square like Tiny or smaller creatures or swarms? Maybe a spelled out exception like Siege Crabs? Exceptions such as grapple or swallow whole? Incorporeality? Demonic possession? Being in a different square above the creature in the case of flight? In a howdah above the creature? Platforms built into the side of and/or around the creature? Assumed to be in the same square for simplicity's sake, as in the case of mounted combat? Hanging off the side of a mount for cover? Technically not existing or untargetable at the time, in case of antimagic field and haunt shift, respectively? What's going on with these creatures?

The other thread has answered this a number of times. It has a cockpit with a viewing window that breaks line of effect to the pilot, but retains line of sight. The pilot directs its actions in combat. It is probably best considered a special mount that provides full cover without blinding the rider. The fact that it's a clockwork construct just about removes the need for riding checks.

[unseenmage]

@the OP,
If the price of your Construct minions is a concern you could/should ask your GM if you can utilize the Pathfinder construct creation rules. Prices are based on the construct's CR which, while not perfect, is a far sight better than the listed prices which appear to be assigned largely at random.

The Building and Modifying Constructs (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/magic/buildingAndModifyingConstructs.html) section of the PRD has the info which boils down to any given Construct's price is CR2*500 gp and half that for its cost to create and a tenth of that for the price to build the body.

Our group uses the above for my minionmancers and its proven quite helpful.

[RoboEmperor]

Okay, third point. Are these creatures inside other creatures rolling initiative at all? They might be using the general rules for movement out of combat instead of the general rules for movement in combat. Are they using exceptions to the general rule of not being able to end movement in another creature's square like Tiny or smaller creatures or swarms? Maybe a spelled out exception like Siege Crabs? Exceptions such as grapple or swallow whole? Incorporeality? Demonic possession? Being in a different square above the creature in the case of flight? In a howdah above the creature? Platforms built into the side of and/or around the creature? Assumed to be in the same square for simplicity's sake, as in the case of mounted combat? Hanging off the side of a mount for cover? Technically not existing or untargetable at the time, in case of antimagic field and haunt shift, respectively? What's going on with these creatures?

1. Animated Objects, like summoned creatures, go by the caster's initiative. So the Animated Object does not roll initiative.
2. gogogome gave an example of a house. Just think of a 20ft x 20ft x 20ft house. The ravid is inside the house. The house animates and starts attacking things while the Ravid is still inside it. That's it. And the Ravid is looking through a window and directing the house to attack this or move over there.

Now the reason we're calling your claims absurd is that you're saying because the house is now a creature, the Ravid cannot move inside the house, which is absurd.

[Deophaun]

It's under hiding not spot.
You're getting a DC of 0 under the Hide skill?

It's very easy to notice a large object in plain sight. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#difficultyClass)

A forest fire adds the size modifier of a colossal creature to the spot check to notice it. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#forestFiresCr6)

Honestly, if you can fail to spot a forest fire when it isn't trying to hide, you can fail to spot a human when it isn't trying to hide.
A large object in plain sight. Like a castle two miles away on a hill. You will notice how none of your examples use any of the penalties you talk about. So I want to know where you got a DC of 0 for a human in darkness. What rule are you quoting that gives that, because none of your examples (which is all they are) speak to it.

[Karl Aegis]

1. Animated Objects, like summoned creatures, go by the caster's initiative. So the Animated Object does not roll initiative.
2. gogogome gave an example of a house. Just think of a 20ft x 20ft x 20ft house. The ravid is inside the house. The house animates and starts attacking things while the Ravid is still inside it. That's it. And the Ravid is looking through a window and directing the house to attack this or move over there.

Now the reason we're calling your claims absurd is that you're saying because the house is now a creature, the Ravid cannot move inside the house, which is absurd.

So were these "Official D&D Encounters" completely made up then? As made up as, say, this argument that I claimed you couldn't move inside a house? What does that even mean? That uses none of the language the actual game uses. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#movingthroughaSqua re)

[RoboEmperor]

So were these "Official D&D Encounters" completely made up then? As made up as, say, this argument that I claimed you couldn't move inside a house? What does that even mean? That uses none of the language the actual game uses. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#movingthroughaSqua re)

Look at Ember Guard in MMV. It has several official Ember Guard encounters and one of them has a Flamebrother Salamander inside the Ember Guard. And Ember Guards do not have any special abilities that let creatures stay inside it.

[Karl Aegis]

Look at Ember Guard in MMV. It has several official Ember Guard encounters and one of them has a Flamebrother Salamander inside the Ember Guard. And Ember Guards do not have any special abilities that let creatures stay inside it.

Your flamebrother salamander doesn't actually engage in combat. They're using the general rule for out of combat movement. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#movingAroundInSquares) Use the combat movement rules for combat. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm)

[RoboEmperor]

Your flamebrother salamander doesn't actually engage in combat. They're using the general rule for out of combat movement. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#movingAroundInSquares) Use the combat movement rules for combat. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm)

So lets indulge your ruling. The ravid is inside the Gargantuan Animated Object before combat starts. Combat starts, what happens? Are you saying he can't move 5 inches to the left inside the 20ftx20ftx20ft house because he's in combat? Is he suddenly teleported outside the house?

[Karl Aegis]

So lets indulge your ruling. The ravid is inside the Gargantuan Animated Object before combat starts. Combat starts, what happens? Are you saying he can't move 5 inches to the left inside the 20ftx20ftx20ft house because he's in combat? Is he suddenly teleported outside the house?

Link to literally the same page. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#specialMovementRul es)

[RoboEmperor]

Link to literally the same page. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm#specialMovementRul es)

Your link doesn't explain anything.

[Karl Aegis]

Your link doesn't explain anything.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

[RoboEmperor]

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

So you're saying the Ravid will teleport through walls and floors as soon as combat starts?

[gogogome]

So you're saying the Ravid will teleport through walls and floors as soon as combat starts?

Karl Aegis is saying you cannot sit on an animated chair in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you cannot climb an animated rope in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you cannot climb inside an animated box in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you cannot wear your own animated pants in combat.

So there's nothing to discuss here.

[Karl Aegis]

So you're saying the Ravid will teleport through walls and floors as soon as combat starts?

No, there is no travel through the Astral Plane.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

[RoboEmperor]

Karl Aegis is saying you cannot sit on an animated chair in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you cannot climb an animated rope in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you climb inside an animated box in combat.
Karl Aegis is saying you cannot wear your own animated pants in combat.

So there's nothing to discuss here.

I want to hear him actually say the Ravid is teleported through floors, ceilings, and walls as soon as combat starts.

[unseenmage]

Making the building an Intelligent Magic Item instead and using the Pathfinder option that gives it legs and a move speed could resolve the issue.

[RoboEmperor]

No, there is no travel through the Astral Plane.

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

Then how the hell does a Ravid, which is inside the house and up the stairs, end up outside the house as soon as combat starts in the blink of an eye?

[InvisibleBison]

Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

I think a more relevant rule would be "Designated Exceptions: Some creatures break the above rules." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/movementPositionAndDistance.htm). A hollow creature seems like an exception to the rules about occupying another creature's space.

But more importantly, it doesn't matter whether the sorcerer can by strict RAW ride inside the animated object or not. The DM of this group has already said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23012644&postcount=60) that he allows it to happen.

[Deophaun]

But more importantly, it doesn't matter whether the sorcerer can by strict RAW ride inside the animated object or not. The DM of this group has already said (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23012644&postcount=60) that he allows it to happen.
If DMs were allowed to modify the rules or use their judgement to arbitrate unusual circumstances, the game would say so. There would be some sort of rule zero or some such nonsense.

[Karl Aegis]

Then how the hell does a Ravid, which is inside the house and up the stairs, end up outside the house as soon as combat starts in the blink of an eye?

You're not in combat until you're out of your... unfurnished... cube... home.... Have fun rolling around in it.

[Deophaun]

You're not in combat until you're out of your... unfurnished... cube... home.... Have fun rolling around in it.
Have a citation for that?

[ZamielVanWeber]

Have a citation for that?

Do we actually have a citation for start of combat? Because I know "encounters" is an issue and looking for it in the SRD is not giving me anything useful for "battle" or "combat" either.

[RoboEmperor]

You're not in combat until you're out of your... unfurnished... cube... home.... Have fun rolling around in it.

So when the ravid is directing his unfurnished cube home and is casting spells to buff his unfurnished cube home during combat, he's not in combat?

In anycase InvisibleBison gave you a RAW citation that should satisfy all your RAW needs concerning this issue.

[Deophaun]

Do we actually have a citation for start of combat? Because I know "encounters" is an issue and looking for it in the SRD is not giving me anything useful for "battle" or "combat" either.
I think the closest you get is page 133 of the PHB.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I think the closest you get is page 133 of the PHB.

While I do not intrinsically mind the opened ended definition of these things, finding them in a legalistic system where abilities need to know exactly when they start is a bit annoying.

[Karl Aegis]

I believe the current topic is there's a ravid upstairs in a rolling cube called a house in Monster Manual V as an official encounter. At least when I asked about creatures inside other creatures as official encounters that's what I got. Then I was badgered for linking to rules. It's strange that linking to rules results in badgering and ad hominem attacks.

I just don't want another generation believing in wrong rules. Eventually it's going to leak into competitions. Like it has.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I believe the current topic is there's a ravid upstairs in a rolling cube called a house in Monster Manual V as an official encounter. At least when I asked about creatures inside other creatures as official encounters that's what I got. Then I was badgered for linking to rules. It's strange that linking to rules results in badgering and ad hominem attacks.

I just don't want another generation believing in wrong rules. Eventually it's going to leak into competitions. Like it has.

You’re being intentionally obtuse at this point.

[Pleh]

I believe the current topic is there's a ravid upstairs in a rolling cube called a house in Monster Manual V as an official encounter. At least when I asked about creatures inside other creatures as official encounters that's what I got. Then I was badgered for linking to rules. It's strange that linking to rules results in badgering and ad hominem attacks.

I just don't want another generation believing in wrong rules. Eventually it's going to leak into competitions. Like it has.

Not "rolling cube". It's a clockwork mechanism. No need to roll anywhere when it has moving parts. It also has the ability to wield a colossal morningstar, so it clearly has arms. Why would it be a stretch to have a set of legs?

[Crake]

Uhh, isn't the default rule that a creature 3 size categories smaller can enter another creature's square? So a medium creature could indeed enter a gargantuan creature's sapce? I'll see if I can find the citation, but I'm like, 99% sure that's correct.

Apparently that rule is limited to moving through squares, not ending movement in their space.