reach Eldritch Knight build viable?

[nmitchell2]

I'm a relatively new Pathfinder player (transitioned from 5E about 18 months ago) and my first character was a Bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline. I needed to learn combat actions and how spells work in Pathfinder and I wanted to learn how tactics differ in 5E and Pathfinder and the DM, knowing I like gish characters, showed me the Bloodrager and told me to optimise for DPR while relying on the defensive spells from Bloodrage to keep me alive. I really enjoyed that character and pulled my weight in a group of more experienced players. That campaign fell apart while we were still level 11 due to the lack of consistency of people turning up. Three of us (including the DM) went to another gaming store and joined another game as players. I love gish characters and naturally tried out the Magus, I was one of two at that table. My build was actually Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 / Magus (Bladebound, Kensai) X wielding a Cruel Whip and mainly using Rimed Frostbite to debuff enemies into oblivion with AoOs. It was a hell of a lot of fun once the build came together. When that character died I made a Dwarf Reach Cleric with a focus on spellcasting, chose to avoid summoning because I didn't have the relevant knowledge of the creatures available to summon and was satisfied but found myself wanting the arcane spell list.

We are starting a new adventure path and are rolling up new characters. I still want to gish and I still want to use reach tactics but I want to prioritise the caster side over the martial side. I want to cast spells on my turn and use AoOs to dish out damage on enemies turns. Essentially I want an arcane equivalent to the Reach Cleric that doesn't use summons. To this end I am trying to build an Eldritch Knight. My proposed entry to Eldritch Knight is Bloodrager (Blood Conduit) 1 / Arcanist 6. Blood Conduit gets me Improved Trip without prereqs, I would probably actually enter after Arcanist 7 so I can access the level 8 Bloodline Powers with Bloodline Development. The DM has OKed me using Bloodline Development to advance both bloodlines if I go Crossblooded, I'm thinking of going Aberrant and Abyssal. I'm going to ask about picking up Spellstrike (either via Blade Adept or VMC Magus) and withholding Rimed Frostbite charges while still casting spells but I doubt that will slide.

My proposed questions are: Is this viable? Is there a better way of doing it and if so what? How would the build change if the DM OKes casting spells while holding Rimed Frostbite charges? When (if) I get to Bloodrager 1 / Arcanist 7 / Eldritch Knight 10, should I go back to Arcanist or take another PrC?

[Kurald Galain]

Yes, this is very viable. I'd go with Abyssal; enlarging yourself is great for an AOO fisher. Take the Mad Magic feat to be able to cast while raging. School Understanding (Divination) is another great pick.

But you haven't specified what levels you'll be playing at. An alternative would be a reach Magus build (see the guide in my sig). The EK has the advantage in higher-level spells at level 14 and up; anywhere below that, the Magus has better synergy and action economy.

[Peat]

When (if) I get to Bloodrager 1 / Arcanist 7 / Eldritch Knight 10, should I go back to Arcanist or take another PrC?

Should you get so high, you're probably best off going back to Arcanist. Nothing on earth is going to give you +2 BAB/+2 CLs at that point, so +1 BAB/+2 CLs and a few extra goodies is probably about as good as it gets.

You might find giving up some Arcanist levels and taking some in Evangelist works out better, but you are delaying your spellcasting and bloodline progression for a level (and ending up one lower in each) in exchange for better BAB/HD/skills/some goodies. Caveat Emptor.

In any case, yes, it should work once the build gets on line just fine.

[nmitchell2]

My DM really likes the depth and direction of my backstory and has agreed that I can take the Extra Rage feat and apply it to my Bloodrage but won't allow me to withhold charges while casting spells. He has told me he expects me to roleplay my chosen personality traits or he will take back that decision however. I don't know if that that changes any suggestions, I'm extremely grateful for the ones I have received so far. I'm glad I'm not crazy for attempting this lol.

[upho]

My DM really likes the depth and direction of my backstory and has agreed that I can take the Extra Rage feat and apply it to my Bloodrage but won't allow me to withhold charges while casting spells. He has told me he expects me to roleplay my chosen personality traits or he will take back that decision however. I don't know if that that changes any suggestions, I'm extremely grateful for the ones I have received so far.Just in case you and/or your GM didn't already know:

"Bloodrage counts as the barbarian’s rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects."

So if you normally play according to the rules, no special GM permission or houserules should be needed for you to apply Extra Rage to bloodrage.

I believe none of the advice previous posters gave you are dependent on you being able to cast spells while holding charges, so you should be OK.


The DM has OKed me using Bloodline Development to advance both bloodlines if I go Crossblooded, I'm thinking of going Aberrant and Abyssal.Well, crossblooded does give you a better action economy than if going single-blooded Aberrant if you don't have a round to poke yourself with a wand ahead of combat. But the -4 to Will (in comparison to going single-blooded) is often too risky IMO, as even as a single-classed and single-blooded bloodrager you typically want an additional boost to Will (through the Superstition rage power via Primalist or similar). But at least your arcanist levels will provide some compensation, so this mostly depends on what you expect from the game, I guess.

Speaking of the primalist, trading in your 8th level bloodline power for two rage powers may be another great reason to skip crossblooded. There are several suitable for a gish reach-AoO-controller/debuffer, such as Unexpected Strike, Reckless Abandon, the fantastic Savage Dirty Trick, and more.

Note that Crossblooded doesn't actually allow you to "advance both bloodlines", but to choose a benefit from either bloodline at each time when normally granted. So for the purpose of Bloodline Development, I think it's pretty clear the RAI and (arguably) RAW is that your bloodline is considered to be "Aberrant/Abyssal Crossblood", not either Aberrant or Abyssal. I believe this would be true also for similar stuff which allows you to advance bloodline benefits, unless limited to a specific bloodline (such as the Dragon Disciple PrC).


I'm going to ask about picking up Spellstrike (either via Blade Adept or VMC Magus) and withholding Rimed Frostbite charges while still casting spells but I doubt that will slide.My advice is that you go Blade Adept rather than VMC magus, as you'll have a lot better uses for your feat slots and won't enjoy having to wait until 11th to get spellstrike.

Or if you and your GM and group don't mind a touch of cheese, you could simply grab Ascetic Style instead of Blade Adept. This feat allows you to use a monk weapon and apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks". And since you can deliver touch attacks with unarmed strikes, you can frostbite with for example a double-chained kama, kusarigama or another monk reach weapon. You can get Exotic Proficiency and Weapon Focus by taking a leak COWPIS (cracked opalescent white pyramid, 1,500 gp) in a wayfinder (500 gp). Aside from allowing you to save up on exploits and/or to more easily choose another arcanist archetype, going for Ascetic Style also allows you to trade out your 1st level bloodline power for a bloodline familiar, granting you for example +4 initiative and a potentially a rather fantastic little bodyguard buddy with the protector archetype. It does cost you two extra feats though.

Oh, and don't forget Lunging Spell Touch, Longarm Bracers and long arm, of course. Nothing quite as nice as being able to threaten everything within a 40'+ radius... :smallbiggrin:


My proposed entry to Eldritch Knight is Bloodrager (Blood Conduit) 1 / Arcanist 6. Blood Conduit gets me Improved Trip without prereqs, I would probably actually enter after Arcanist 7 so I can access the level 8 Bloodline Powers with Bloodline Development.That should work just fine.


School Understanding (Divination) is another great pick.Seems to me Divination would actually be a poor choice, since you only gain the (normally constant) Initiative bonus for Cha mod rounds once you've activated the ability by spending 1 point from your arcane reservoir as a swift. Which means it's basically impossible to use unless you get to decide the exact moment to enter combat. And the other 1st level divination school power isn't exactly anything to write home about...