War Cleric multiclassing.

[Pyramid Pug]

Sup folks, Pug here fighting off a cold and pondering on wether and how to multiclass my War domain cleric. First of all some background..

I play a lvl 8 dwarven War Cleric. My stats are 16 str, 11 dex, 16 con, 13 int, 19 wis, 11 cha. I have the War Caster feat and on my other ASI I bumped my str to 16 (was tired of missing stuff TBH). Other relevant stuff includes my weapon, it's a warhammer created by my DM and tied to my character backstory and it grows in power as my character levels (meaning I don't want to replace it, it's almost a character unto itself).

My party includes a barbarian (berserker) and a rogue (thief). This makes the party very melee centric so I tend to sword & board ( I have the highest AC of the party at 20 atm).

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to further the tank role while also improving the mid-range aspect of my character, so I considered two ideas...

1) Going EK with the Close Quarters Shooter fighting style. This nets me some spell slot progression granting me 5th lvl spell slots (mass cure wounds and holy weapon comes to mind), as well as booming blade and abjuration spells like shield and absorb. The CQS style also applies to spell attacks so I can cast ranged spell attacks in melee (checked it with my DM) and I also plan on getting a Long Bow in the process. Thematically I like the idea of my character bonding with the warhammer since its so important (and the long bow, since it lets me bond two weapons). I'd bump dex this route and pick spells that don't require int for utility and battlefield control.

2) Going Wizard... yes.. you read that right...
Basically I was thinking of the War Magic tradition that significantly boosts AC (durable magic + shield of faith + shield on reaction) and like the EK variant above, spells that boost and give battlefield control. With this route I'd bump int and would be free to pick spells that benefit from that stat (tho still focused on buff/debuff/control).

Anyway, would like to hear you folks thoughts on this or what other combos/ ideas / suggestions you might have! (doesn't have to be Gish either, I simply figured a War Cleric already tends that way to begin with)


——— EDIT———

I’m a dumbo, I typed sharpshooter when I meant the Fighting Style Close Quarters Shooter from UA, my bad entirely.

[Blood of Gaea]

Honestly? I would go straight Cleric to get Greater Restoration to support your Berserker Barbarian, they'll be much more effective if they can Frenzy pretty often.

[Specter]

Sharpshooter doesn't affect spell attacks, Spell Sniper does.

In any case, EK should be a good bet, or at least 1 Fighter level.

[CTurbo]

I like the Fighter EK idea except for the Longbow + Sharpshooter + bumping Dex part. I'd rather Max Wis, Str, and bump Con than put any resources into Int or Dex. You can take the Defensive or Dueling Fighting Style. Booming Blade would be great on you for sure. You can use spells and cantrips for ranged damage instead of using a bow. Bonding to your weapon is a great idea. I highly recommend Sentinel too in order to up your tankiness and it also lets you use Booming Blade and your Divine Strike with your reaction so you'll hit really hard. Shield Master or Fell Handed are also great feat choices.

If you're looking for other ideas, I think Ranger Hunter would be great. The UA Revised Ranger is very frontloaded so you'd get a lot of great stuff and you'll get it early on. Natural Explorer is great, You'd get Defensive or Dueling Fighting Style, Favored Enemy, Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer, and more spell slots.

[Snowbluff]

I'd go Bladesinger. Full slots, gives you extra attack. I would have said swords bard,

If you aren't going for extra attack, I'd grab blade cantrip.

Either way, wizard for shield and absorb elements, and maybe a familiar is probably the way to go.

[CantigThimble]

If I were you I would have grabbed magic initiate for Shillelagh rather than bumping strength, but it's a bit late for that advice.

I'd stay in war cleric for at least 1 more level before multiclassing. Hold Monster, Greater Restoration and Raise Dead are all nice to have.

After that War Wizard or Diviner seems like a solid bet.

[djreynolds]

Sup folks, Pug here fighting off a cold and pondering on wether and how to multiclass my War domain cleric. First of all some background..

I play a lvl 8 dwarven War Cleric. My stats are 16 str, 11 dex, 16 con, 13 int, 19 wis, 11 cha. I have the War Caster feat and on my other ASI I bumped my str to 16 (was tired of missing stuff TBH). Other relevant stuff includes my weapon, it's a warhammer created by my DM and tied to my character backstory and it grows in power as my character levels (meaning I don't want to replace it, it's almost a character unto itself).

My party includes a barbarian (berserker) and a rogue (thief). This makes the party very melee centric so I tend to sword & board ( I have the highest AC of the party at 20 atm).

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to further the tank role while also improving the mid-range aspect of my character, so I considered two ideas...

1) Going EK with the sharpshooter fighting style. This nets me some spell slot progression granting me 5th lvl spell slots (mass cure wounds and holy weapon comes to mind), as well as booming blade and abjuration spells like shield and absorb. The Sharpshooter style also applies to spell attacks so I can cast ranged spell attacks in melee (checked it with my DM) and I also plan on getting a Long Bow in the process. Thematically I like the idea of my character bonding with the warhammer since its so important (and the long bow, since it lets me bond two weapons). I'd bump dex this route and pick spells that don't require int for utility and battlefield control.

2) Going Wizard... yes.. you read that right...
Basically I was thinking of the War Magic tradition that significantly boosts AC (durable magic + shield of faith + shield on reaction) and like the EK variant above, spells that boost and give battlefield control. With this route I'd bump int and would be free to pick spells that benefit from that stat (tho still focused on buff/debuff/control).

Anyway, would like to hear you folks thoughts on this or what other combos/ ideas / suggestions you might have! (doesn't have to be Gish either, I simply figured a War Cleric already tends that way to begin with)

Grab some wizard, abjuration, for arcane ward

Also wizard keeps your spell slot progression at full, whereas, EK is 1/3

So grab wizard, IMO, abjuration or evocation, snag booming blade and just use buffs

[Blood of Gaea]

Grab some wizard, abjuration, for arcane ward

Also wizard keeps your spell slot progression at full, whereas, EK is 1/3

So grab wizard, IMO, abjuration or evocation, snag booming blade and just use buffs
The ward is pretty crap without investing a large number of levels, as it's based on your Wizard level.

[GoodmanDL]

You are a Dwarven War cleric with a 13 INT. I'm not sure how much Wizard and Fighter are really worth more than more levels of Cleric would be. Battle Master would probably be better for you than EK.

[CantigThimble]

You are a Dwarven War cleric with a 13 INT. I'm not sure how much Wizard and Fighter are really worth more than more levels of Cleric would be. Battle Master would probably be better for you than EK.

Booming Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements, Blur and Misty Step are all great to have regardless of int.

[Aett_Thorn]

Is UA allowed? I would think that a few level dip into a Mystic would’ve fun for your character.

[CTurbo]

I would go EK Fighter all the way. It seriously boosts both your tankiness and your damage capabilities. Action Surge, Fighting Style, and Second Wind are all really good. War Magic synergizes really well with a War Cleric. EK adds some great offensive and defensive spells that don't explicitly rely on Int.

IMO, War is not the greatest domain to begin with since one of it's main features, War Priest, is redundant and mostly outclassed by Spiritual Weapon. Adding Fighter Levels makes War Priest better starting with the Dueling Fighting Style.

As mentioned earlier, Booming Blade is great, and combines awesomely with Warcaster and Sentinel.

If you actually made it to level 19, you'd get 4 attacks per round all while pimping Spirit Guardians and a potential 6d8 Booming Blade as a reaction attack.

[sophontteks]

If your party consists of a rogue and a barbarian, they have melee covered. They need a caster. You don't have to provide that, but if your are making your decision based on what would work best with the party, it sure isn't focusing on melee.

[GoodmanDL]

If your party consists of a rogue and a barbarian, they have melee covered. They need a caster. You don't have to provide that, but if your are making your decision based on what would work best with the party, it sure isn't focusing on melee.

Exactly. In a party with that much melee, going toward 6th and 7th level Cleric Spells is good. How many times a day were you really gonna Cast shield? You could just take Magic Initiate for that and Booming Blade.

With a low Int, you won't be able to prepare many wizard spells, and you need 8 levels of Fighter to get Misty Step. I'd rather have access to Heal, Greater Restoration and Holy Aura.

[Ironcloak]

Do you mean Crossbow Expert instead of Sharpshooter? That would allow you to make ranged spell and weapon attacks in Melee.

The fighting style is called Archery and clearly states it is for ranged weapons so spells would not get the +2 bonus unless your GM is using house rules.

[Ironcloak]

If you multi-class into another spell casting class, you calculate your spells known separately so while you have access to a 5th level spell slot, you could not know Mass Cure Wounds. You could use a lesser level spell and bump it up like casting cure wounds at 5th level for 5d8+Wis mod of healing.

[Citan]

Sup folks, Pug here fighting off a cold and pondering on wether and how to multiclass my War domain cleric. First of all some background..

I play a lvl 8 dwarven War Cleric. My stats are 16 str, 11 dex, 16 con, 13 int, 19 wis, 11 cha. I have the War Caster feat and on my other ASI I bumped my str to 16 (was tired of missing stuff TBH). Other relevant stuff includes my weapon, it's a warhammer created by my DM and tied to my character backstory and it grows in power as my character levels (meaning I don't want to replace it, it's almost a character unto itself).

My party includes a barbarian (berserker) and a rogue (thief). This makes the party very melee centric so I tend to sword & board ( I have the highest AC of the party at 20 atm).

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to further the tank role while also improving the mid-range aspect of my character, so I considered two ideas...

1) Going EK with the Close Quarters Shooter fighting style. This nets me some spell slot progression granting me 5th lvl spell slots (mass cure wounds and holy weapon comes to mind), as well as booming blade and abjuration spells like shield and absorb. The CQS style also applies to spell attacks so I can cast ranged spell attacks in melee (checked it with my DM) and I also plan on getting a Long Bow in the process. Thematically I like the idea of my character bonding with the warhammer since its so important (and the long bow, since it lets me bond two weapons). I'd bump dex this route and pick spells that don't require int for utility and battlefield control.

2) Going Wizard... yes.. you read that right...
Basically I was thinking of the War Magic tradition that significantly boosts AC (durable magic + shield of faith + shield on reaction) and like the EK variant above, spells that boost and give battlefield control. With this route I'd bump int and would be free to pick spells that benefit from that stat (tho still focused on buff/debuff/control).

Anyway, would like to hear you folks thoughts on this or what other combos/ ideas / suggestions you might have! (doesn't have to be Gish either, I simply figured a War Cleric already tends that way to begin with)


——— EDIT———

I’m a dumbo, I typed sharpshooter when I meant the Fighting Style Close Quarters Shooter from UA, my bad entirely.
Hmm...

In your place?
I'd probably pick ONE level of Wizard just to get Shield and Absorb Elements and see where that gets me... Or wait until I got lvl 10 ability, Divine Intervention, which is a great tool to use unless your group is always rushing from one dungeon to another (which means little downtime).

OR start a straight Land Druid multiclass once I got all Cleric spells I really want (I'd say at the very least Raise Dead but YMMV), especially if your DM agrees to waive the "metal armor denial" or craft a wooden heavy armor for you.
Considering your group...
- Just Fog Cloud or Entangle may occasionally help you control how many people you fight at a time (fun fact: your Barbarian could probably stand straight in the middle of it without being annoyed XD).
- Faerie Fire may help everyone, especially Rogue, to divide and conquer.
- Earth Tremor is good, but you probably want to use your hammer instead so let's put it aside.
- Heat Metal will make quick work of enemies wearing heavy armor.
- Healing Spirit will take care of all your out of combat healing and could be paired with Warding Bond if need be.
- Dust Devil is a "mini-mobile" control that can be moved as a bonus action.
- Plant Growth can give you lots of freedom to kill enemies by little groups (large area affected but you can select "bubbles" of unaffected area).
And Land Druid nets you other interesting spells (Slow, Haste, Stinking Cloud).

OR if you want to enforce your gish, pick 2 levels of War Wizard then pick 3 levels of Battlemaster Fighter, in whichever order you fancy.

[Pyramid Pug]

First of all, massive thanks for all the input. Secondly, I’m a potato, I meant the Fighting Style Close Quarter Shooter from UA, not the feat Sharpshooter. I’m usually not the sharpest bulb in the fridge, but even less so with a cold. Anywho..


CTurbo
Re: War Cleric multiclassing.

I would go EK Fighter all the way. It seriously boosts both your tankiness and your damage capabilities. Action Surge, Fighting Style, and Second Wind are all really good. War Magic synergizes really well with a War Cleric. EK adds some great offensive and defensive spells that don't explicitly rely on Int.

IMO, War is not the greatest domain to begin with since one of it's main features, War Priest, is redundant and mostly outclassed by Spiritual Weapon. Adding Fighter Levels makes War Priest better starting with the Dueling Fighting Style.

As mentioned earlier, Booming Blade is great, and combines awesomely with Warcaster and Sentinel.

If you actually made it to level 19, you'd get 4 attacks per round all while pimping Spirit Guardians and a potential 6d8 Booming Blade as a reaction attack.


CTurbo
Re: War Cleric multiclassing.

I like the Fighter EK idea except for the Longbow + Sharpshooter + bumping Dex part. I'd rather Max Wis, Str, and bump Con than put any resources into Int or Dex. You can take the Defensive or Dueling Fighting Style. Booming Blade would be great on you for sure. You can use spells and cantrips for ranged damage instead of using a bow. Bonding to your weapon is a great idea. I highly recommend Sentinel too in order to up your tankiness and it also lets you use Booming Blade and your Divine Strike with your reaction so you'll hit really hard. Shield Master or Fell Handed are also great feat choices.

If you're looking for other ideas, I think Ranger Hunter would be great. The UA Revised Ranger is very frontloaded so you'd get a lot of great stuff and you'll get it early on. Natural Explorer is great, You'd get Defensive or Dueling Fighting Style, Favored Enemy, Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer, and more spell slots.

That was more or less my reasoning yeh (and thoughts regarding War domain, grunff..). I meant the Fighting Style CQS from UA, not the sharpshooter feat my bad, the reasoning behind the longbow being that it benefits from my divine strike plus the fighter extra attacks and to cover a bit the lack of ranged options in my party. Ranger is cool (I really liked the revised options too), but it would require 4 more levels of cleric to bump my dex to 13 before I could pick it.



Today, 12:40 AMIroncloak
Re: War Cleric multiclassing.

If you multi-class into another spell casting class, you calculate your spells known separately so while you have access to a 5th level spell slot, you could not know Mass Cure Wounds. You could use a lesser level spell and bump it up like casting cure wounds at 5th level for 5d8+Wis mod of healing.
Today, 12:35 AMIroncloak
Re: War Cleric multiclassing.

Do you mean Crossbow Expert instead of Sharpshooter? That would allow you to make ranged spell and weapon attacks in Melee.

The fighting style is called Archery and clearly states it is for ranged weapons so spells would not get the +2 bonus unless your GM is using house rules.

My bad, meant the que CQS fighting style in UA, not the feat sharpshooter, I’m especially dumbo today. That said, the PHB says


You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Doesn’t this mean that I simply need to have the spell slots for it? (in this case from say, the wizard or EK spell progression)


GoodmanDL
Re: War Cleric multiclassing.

Quote Originally Posted by sophontteks View Post
If your party consists of a rogue and a barbarian, they have melee covered. They need a caster. You don't have to provide that, but if your are making your decision based on what would work best with the party, it sure isn't focusing on melee.
Exactly. In a party with that much melee, going toward 6th and 7th level Cleric Spells is good. How many times a day were you really gonna Cast shield? You could just take Magic Initiate for that and Booming Blade.

With a low Int, you won't be able to prepare many wizard spells, and you need 8 levels of Fighter to get Misty Step. I'd rather have access to Heal, Greater Restoration and Holy Aura.

War domain is melee centered, everything about its domain features needs me to be in the thick of it. Plus I’ve the highest AC. My reasoning was “What can I do to further bolster the strenghts of my domain?”, and like you both said, the melee dps is already taken care off, so I figured I’d go the tank route.

That said, I do agree with yah. If I had known back then what I do now, I would have built the character differently. Dunno.. maybe I can persuade my DM to let me change domains.. Light, life or arcana would be apropriate.. but then my warhammer is such an intrisic part of the story and my DM put so much care into designing it, I feel it would be a waste (if not an insult) not to use it.

[Pyramid Pug]

Hmm...

In your place?
I'd probably pick ONE level of Wizard just to get Shield and Absorb Elements and see where that gets me... Or wait until I got lvl 10 ability, Divine Intervention, which is a great tool to use unless your group is always rushing from one dungeon to another (which means little downtime).

OR start a straight Land Druid multiclass once I got all Cleric spells I really want (I'd say at the very least Raise Dead but YMMV), especially if your DM agrees to waive the "metal armor denial" or craft a wooden heavy armor for you.
Considering your group...
- Just Fog Cloud or Entangle may occasionally help you control how many people you fight at a time (fun fact: your Barbarian could probably stand straight in the middle of it without being annoyed XD).
- Faerie Fire may help everyone, especially Rogue, to divide and conquer.
- Earth Tremor is good, but you probably want to use your hammer instead so let's put it aside.
- Heat Metal will make quick work of enemies wearing heavy armor.
- Healing Spirit will take care of all your out of combat healing and could be paired with Warding Bond if need be.
- Dust Devil is a "mini-mobile" control that can be moved as a bonus action.
- Plant Growth can give you lots of freedom to kill enemies by little groups (large area affected but you can select "bubbles" of unaffected area).
And Land Druid nets you other interesting spells (Slow, Haste, Stinking Cloud).

OR if you want to enforce your gish, pick 2 levels of War Wizard then pick 3 levels of Battlemaster Fighter, in whichever order you fancy.

These are great suggestion! I’ve been reading Treatmonks guide on wizarding battlefield control and was thinking how could I do that with the options available to me. I had put MC druid out of my mind ‘cause it sort of negates the strenght of the war domain (the whole no metal thing), plus much of my character’s story revolves around the warhammer. I could look into it tho, if anything I’m creative in regards to weaving elements into stories and the whole “heavy wooden armor” image is hilariously good.

I’m curious tho, what would 2 levels of war wizard and battlemaster give me?

[Ironcloak]

My bad, meant the que CQS fighting style in UA, not the feat sharpshooter, I’m especially dumbo today. That said, the PHB says

You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Doesn’t this mean that I simply need to have the spell slots for it? (in this case from say, the wizard or EK spell progression)


I don't believe it does. It could be clearer by saying cleric spell slots in the cleric section of the PHB. The rules are in the multi-class section.

Page 164 of the PHB for multi-class spellcasting says "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." and "If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use these slots, but only to cast your lower level spells."

Since a 8th level cleric does not have 5th level spells, Mass Cure Wounds is not on the cleric spell list available for you to cast.

[Pyramid Pug]

I don't believe it does. It could be clearer by saying cleric spell slots in the cleric section of the PHB. The rules are in the multi-class section.

Page 164 of the PHB for multi-class spellcasting says "You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class." and "If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use these slots, but only to cast your lower level spells."

Since a 8th level cleric does not have 5th level spells, Mass Cure Wounds is not on the cleric spell list available for you to cast.

Yeh, the wording is a bit misleading.. I did find it a bit odd in fairness.. That would mean i could take 1 level in each spellcasting class and then level whichever one I fancied (‘cept warlock) thus getting access to all lvl 9 spells and full spell slots. Granted I could only prepare 1 or 2 of the minor classes, but still 1 or 2 lvl 9 spells from each class would still be damn overpowering.

Yeh, that can’t be right lol.

[Pyramid Pug]

Hmmm.. been thinking it over... relying on cantrips and spells for ranged spell damage doesn’t seem like a good idea to me as they would all require int based rolls or saves (well unless I use sacred flame, magic missile or guiding bolt I guess), or am I missing something?

Of course the same could be said of using a long bow, but with a long bow I’d get to also use the extra fighter attacks as well as divine strike (and dex helps with initiative and lots of saves, usually in our session the words “make a dexterity check” are followed by the sound of my head hitting the desk).

——— Edit ———

Going Cleric 9/ Fighter 11 would net me 3 ASI. I could bump str to 18, get Resilient Con (bumping it to 17) and bump both Con and Wis (for 18 str, 18 con, 20 wis at the end). Would severely limit my ranged options tho..

With War Domain and no Dex to speak off I’m finding it hard to find a way to expand my party ranged options TBH. Had I known it would be like this I’d have picked another domain or at least invested in dex rather than str. -_-

[Blood of Gaea]

Hmmm.. been thinking it over... relying on cantrips and spells for ranged spell damage doesn’t seem like a good idea to me as they would all require int based rolls or saves (well unless I use sacred flame, magic missile or guiding bolt I guess), or am I missing something?

Of course the same could be said of using a long bow, but with a long bow I’d get to also use the extra fighter attacks as well as divine strike (and dex helps with initiative and lots of saves, usually in our session the words “make a dexterity check” are followed by the sound of my head hitting the desk).
If you got to level 10 in Cleric, you get a fifth cantrip that could be Toll the Dead, which is a pretty solid attack cantrip. That combined with your Warhammer and various spells would have you well covered.

The problem with the longbow is that even if you get the Archery Fighting Style, your to-hit roll is still not going to be great.

That said, if multiclassing and using a longbow is something you feel strongly about, there is a decent way to improve it. Take four levels of Battlemaster Fighter. This gives you the Archery Fighting Style, Precision Attack, and an ASI to get +1 Dex and +1 Wis. So you're now rolling +3 to hit, can toss a Precision Attack on near misses, and can use Bless to up your chances as well.

Taking another two levels would get you Extra Attack and another ASI to put into +2 Dex.

The biggest problem is that at that point you basically have a PC with three primary stats.

[Pyramid Pug]

If you got to level 10 in Cleric, you get a fifth cantrip that could be Toll the Dead, which is a pretty solid attack cantrip. That combined with your Warhammer and various spells would have you well covered.

The problem with the longbow is that even if you get the Archery Fighting Style, your to-hit roll is still not going to be great.

That said, if multiclassing and using a longbow is something you feel strongly about, there is a decent way to improve it. Take four levels of Battlemaster Fighter. This gives you the Archery Fighting Style, Precision Attack, and an ASI to get +1 Dex and +1 Wis. So you're now rolling +3 to hit, can toss a Precision Attack on near misses, and can use Bless to up your chances as well.

Taking another two levels would get you Extra Attack and another ASI to put into +2 Dex.

The biggest problem is that at that point you basically have a PC with three primary stats.

You know what’s the sad part about it? (pun intented)
I actually dislike MAD characters and ended up unwintingly with one.

Maybe I should ask my DM if he lets me change domain (and with luck the bump to Str). Picking Arcana, Life or Nature would open up options in regards to bolster areas my party is lacking.

[CTurbo]

Hmmm.. been thinking it over... relying on cantrips and spells for ranged spell damage doesn’t seem like a good idea to me as they would all require int based rolls or saves (well unless I use sacred flame, magic missile or guiding bolt I guess), or am I missing something?

Of course the same could be said of using a long bow, but with a long bow I’d get to also use the extra fighter attacks as well as divine strike (and dex helps with initiative and lots of saves, usually in our session the words “make a dexterity check” are followed by the sound of my head hitting the desk).

——— Edit ———

Going Cleric 9/ Fighter 11 would net me 3 ASI. I could bump str to 18, get Resilient Con (bumping it to 17) and bump both Con and Wis (for 18 str, 18 con, 20 wis at the end). Would severely limit my ranged options tho..

With War Domain and no Dex to speak off I’m finding it hard to find a way to expand my party ranged options TBH. Had I known it would be like this I’d have picked another domain or at least invested in dex rather than str. -_-


Why are you stressing ranged damage so much? Sacred Flame ignores total cover and does decent damage at higher levels, Magic Missile auto hits up to 3/4 cover, Guiding Bolt and Toll The Dead do a decent amount on single target damage.

Going Cleric 9/Fighter 11, your 3 ASI/feats could be +1 Wis and Dex, Shield Master, and +2 Str. This helps your Dex saves tremendously.
or
+1 Wis and Int, Res(Dex), and +2 Str. This rounds out your Dex and Int scores while boosting your Dex saves and making your Int at least somewhat respectable.

I'd still go EK Fighter. Bring along some Javelins, when you attack with Sacred Flame or Toll The Dead, you can throw a Javelin as a bonus action. Boom extra ranged options.





If you can change domains, go Tempest all the way!!!

[Blood of Gaea]

You know what’s the sad part about it? (pun intented)
I actually dislike MAD characters and ended up unwintingly with one.

Maybe I should ask my DM if he lets me change domain (and with luck the bump to Str). Picking Arcana, Life or Nature would open up options in regards to bolster areas my party is lacking.
The thing is, you don't need Dex, you've got no good reason to get a Longbow as you can already leverage your 19 Wis to have decent attacks from a distance.

I'm going to make a comparison of 8 War Cleric/4 Fighter vs. 12 War Cleric, fighting at range.

If you get a longbow, the max damage you're looking at is 2d8+1 damage, with an additional 1d8+1 if you use war priest, for a total of 3d8+2(15.5 average).

Toll the Dead will be dealing either 3d8(13.5), or more often 3d12(19.5 average) damage.

So anytime you would make an attack with Toll the Dead against a creature without max health, you'll deal more damage, and you're only 2 points behind the longbow if they do have full health, and you're using Wis instead of Dex to attack. In addition to that, you can split your 12th level ASI to give +1 Wis and +1 Str or Con. If you do that you set yourself up for a good ASI at level 16, +1 Con allows you to pick Resilient (Con), and +1 Strength allows you to be Heavy Armor Master, as well as make your Warhammer attacks more effective. Also, by not using a longbow, you save your War Priest uses for your Warhammer.

In addition to that, if Spiritual Weapon is used, Longbow is an even weaker choice.

[Specter]

I agree with most people; you're no Rogue or Ranger to WANT to attack at range; when in doubt, Sacred Flame, otherwise cast and concentrate. If you want to actually attack with weapons, look for an edge for your attack and exploit it (like Booming/Greenflame Blade).

[Pyramid Pug]

Why are you stressing ranged damage so much? Sacred Flame ignores total cover and does decent damage at higher levels, Magic Missile auto hits up to 3/4 cover, Guiding Bolt and Toll The Dead do a decent amount on single target damage.

Going Cleric 9/Fighter 11, your 3 ASI/feats could be +1 Wis and Dex, Shield Master, and +2 Str. This helps your Dex saves tremendously.
or
+1 Wis and Int, Res(Dex), and +2 Str. This rounds out your Dex and Int scores while boosting your Dex saves and making your Int at least somewhat respectable.

I'd still go EK Fighter. Bring along some Javelins, when you attack with Sacred Flame or Toll The Dead, you can throw a Javelin as a bonus action. Boom extra ranged options.





If you can change domains, go Tempest all the way!!!

And here's dumbo nº2, I completely forgot about the javelins! That would let me bypass Dex entirely allowing me to focus on str, con or wis.


The thing is, you don't need Dex, you've got no good reason to get a Longbow as you can already leverage your 19 Wis to have decent attacks from a distance.

I'm going to make a comparison of 8 War Cleric/4 Fighter vs. 12 War Cleric, fighting at range.

If you get a longbow, the max damage you're looking at is 2d8+1 damage, with an additional 1d8+1 if you use war priest, for a total of 3d8+2(15.5 average).

Toll the Dead will be dealing either 3d8(13.5), or more often 3d12(19.5 average) damage.

So anytime you would make an attack with Toll the Dead against a creature without max health, you'll deal more damage, and you're only 2 points behind the longbow if they do have full health, and you're using Wis instead of Dex to attack. In addition to that, you can split your 12th level ASI to give +1 Wis and +1 Str or Con. If you do that you set yourself up for a good ASI at level 16, +1 Con allows you to pick Resilient (Con), and +1 Strength allows you to be Heavy Armor Master, as well as make your Warhammer attacks more effective. Also, by not using a longbow, you save your War Priest uses for your Warhammer.

In addition to that, if Spiritual Weapon is used, Longbow is an even weaker choice.


I agree with most people; you're no Rogue or Ranger to WANT to attack at range; when in doubt, Sacred Flame, otherwise cast and concentrate. If you want to actually attack with weapons, look for an edge for your attack and exploit it (like Booming/Greenflame Blade).

Yer all damn right, why in blazes am I obsessing over range?! My domain's strength lies in melee and with Booming Blade I don't need to worry about int. Javelins, Sacred Flame and Toll the Dead can deal with the rest. Anything beyond that, the rogue can pick up a bow if he wants to.

So to sum it up.. continue on to lvl 10 for the spell goodies and cantrips (toll the dead), then go EK. Fighting Style can be either duelling or defence. Pick Booming Blade and utility/no int using spells and for the ASI get a bump to STR (18), Resilient Con (17) and bump Con and Wis to 18 and 20 respectively. Sounds like a plan folks, thanks for helping focus and refine my thoughts folks! :D

On a side note I still think there's potential for a Wizard Tank character using the War Magic Tradition.. Fighter 5 for the con save and fighting style either Defence or Duelling,
MA Cavalier for the mark or Battlemaster for the maneuvers and extra attack, 1 War Cleric for the shield of faith and guidance, 14 war wizard. Shield of faith gives +2 ac, with Durable Magic its another +2, and another +2 on reaction with arcane deflection or +4 with the spell shield, and +1 from defense (fighting style). Plate armor and a shield would give it 20 and everything added up gives.. 27 ac (29 if using the Shield spell)! Health would be on the low side tho.. but that's a story for another character

[GorogIrongut]

You know what’s the sad part about it? (pun intented)
I actually dislike MAD characters and ended up unwintingly with one.

Maybe I should ask my DM if he lets me change domain (and with luck the bump to Str). Picking Arcana, Life or Nature would open up options in regards to bolster areas my party is lacking.

I'm a big fan of this. War is a lackluster domain, and by going Arcana you open a whole host of doors for you and your party...

That said, if you have to multi class, I would:
a. Wait until level 10 when you get Divine Intervention and a couple key, high level spells.
b. While Eldritch Knight can seem tempting, and I've done it once or twice, I'm a bigger fan of Gloom Stalker Ranger. While it doesn't net you booming blade or shield, it is a half caster that comes with LOADS of abilities that are juicy. You become much more combat oriented.
c. Talk to your DM about making an interesting switch. Swap your Charisma and your intelligence scores. This would open up a much more natural multi class. You could go Hexblade which essentially would give you most everything you've been wanting from EK.
Or you could go my preferred route of Divine Soul Sorceror. This keeps you in theme with the Cleric role while allowing you to use Sorcery Points. There's nothing dirtier than using the Extend metamagic (generally considered useless) on Spirit Guardians to give it a 30' range of effect. That's 4 times the area of the original spell affected by difficult terrain and the damaging effect that lasts for 10 minutes... all for 1 sp. This keeps you a full caster while enabling you to become a better caster. As has already been highlighted, your other party members have combat covered. You need to be a better caster and boy does this do that in spades. It would also get you great cantrips, including booming blade. And Absorb Elements and Shield... since you wanted it.
Honourable mention for bonus action use when not concentrating on another spell goes to Dragon's Breath or ShadowBlade.

So to summarize... Metamagic.

[Citan]

These are great suggestion! I’ve been reading Treatmonks guide on wizarding battlefield control and was thinking how could I do that with the options available to me. I had put MC druid out of my mind ‘cause it sort of negates the strenght of the war domain (the whole no metal thing), plus much of my character’s story revolves around the warhammer. I could look into it tho, if anything I’m creative in regards to weaving elements into stories and the whole “heavy wooden armor” image is hilariously good.

I’m curious tho, what would 2 levels of war wizard and battlemaster give me?
Well, War Wizard was your own suggestion about getting more defense as a reaction. Although honestly I don't think it's a good deal to be honest.

Battlemaster could be more interesting, or not, depending on how you collaborate with your friends, but the main benefit is that you get a few effects that you can apply to any kind of weapon attack, melee or ranged likewise.

Now that I have a clearer mind though (too tired yesterday), I think that to enhance your martial prowess Monk *may* actually be the best choice. I put emphasis on the may because, from your starting point, there is a huge drawback in the fact that you are currently relying on (heavy) armor and shield, and you don't have the DEX required to rely on Unarmored either. So it would mean that Martial Arts and improved movement are just unapplicable.
However, you'd get a few Dodge as bonus action per short rest, which is another strong defensive feature, and Stunning Strike as a nice cherry with Extra Attack at level 5. And you would also get archetype bonus (Kensei mostly irrelevant for you, 4E too impractical, Sun Soul irrelevant, I'd say either Shadow for extra spells or Long Death for THP).

Note that this is a suggestion I'd push only if 1) you really wanted to get Extra Attack and b) you don't usually have a good use for bonus action or you often manage to get short rest.

Otherwise, I'd argue that Land Druid is the best for the reasons I illustrated above (also Thorns Whip which I forgot but can be helpful), even if it doesn't directly enhance your own defense or offense. :)

What clearer mind? I forgot you couldn't multiclass into Monk because of 11 DEX. XD Stupid me.

The point others made about getting Booming Blade from arcanic caster is solid though: it may be a reason to get Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate feat sometime. :)

[Pyramid Pug]

I'm a big fan of this. War is a lackluster domain, and by going Arcana you open a whole host of doors for you and your party...

That said, if you have to multi class, I would:
a. Wait until level 10 when you get Divine Intervention and a couple key, high level spells.
b. While Eldritch Knight can seem tempting, and I've done it once or twice, I'm a bigger fan of Gloom Stalker Ranger. While it doesn't net you booming blade or shield, it is a half caster that comes with LOADS of abilities that are juicy. You become much more combat oriented.
c. Talk to your DM about making an interesting switch. Swap your Charisma and your intelligence scores. This would open up a much more natural multi class. You could go Hexblade which essentially would give you most everything you've been wanting from EK.
Or you could go my preferred route of Divine Soul Sorceror. This keeps you in theme with the Cleric role while allowing you to use Sorcery Points. There's nothing dirtier than using the Extend metamagic (generally considered useless) on Spirit Guardians to give it a 30' range of effect. That's 4 times the area of the original spell affected by difficult terrain and the damaging effect that lasts for 10 minutes... all for 1 sp. This keeps you a full caster while enabling you to become a better caster. As has already been highlighted, your other party members have combat covered. You need to be a better caster and boy does this do that in spades. It would also get you great cantrips, including booming blade. And Absorb Elements and Shield... since you wanted it.
Honourable mention for bonus action use when not concentrating on another spell goes to Dragon's Breath or ShadowBlade.

So to summarize... Metamagic.

Not a fan of Deep/Gloom stalker TBH, tho I do see it as great for a harrier type of character (like a monk, dart in, stun some squishy mofo and get out)

That sorcerer combo tho.. I play a warlock on another campaign and been eyeballin' sorcerer for prolonged/extended stuff too, and good luck getting to me with half speed and a angry barbarian in the way..

In any case getting to Cleric 10 seems to be a priority regardless of what other choices I make. The 5th lvl spells and Toll the Dead are too good to pass up and will mesh well with whatever else I might go with.

Oh speaking of which, haven't decided yet on tomelock or chainlock for that character. Tomelock I more or less know what to expect, but what I was curious about was what fun shennanigans could I do with a chain familiar outside combat (other than the obvious scouting). In combat I know about the help action as well as item dispenser and delivering touch spells.



Well, War Wizard was your own suggestion about getting more defense as a reaction. Although honestly I don't think it's a good deal to be honest.

Battlemaster could be more interesting, or not, depending on how you collaborate with your friends, but the main benefit is that you get a few effects that you can apply to any kind of weapon attack, melee or ranged likewise.

Now that I have a clearer mind though (too tired yesterday), I think that to enhance your martial prowess Monk *may* actually be the best choice. I put emphasis on the may because, from your starting point, there is a huge drawback in the fact that you are currently relying on (heavy) armor and shield, and you don't have the DEX required to rely on Unarmored either. So it would mean that Martial Arts and improved movement are just unapplicable.
However, you'd get a few Dodge as bonus action per short rest, which is another strong defensive feature, and Stunning Strike as a nice cherry with Extra Attack at level 5. And you would also get archetype bonus (Kensei mostly irrelevant for you, 4E too impractical, Sun Soul irrelevant, I'd say either Shadow for extra spells or Long Death for THP).

Note that this is a suggestion I'd push only if 1) you really wanted to get Extra Attack and b) you don't usually have a good use for bonus action or you often manage to get short rest.

Otherwise, I'd argue that Land Druid is the best for the reasons I illustrated above (also Thorns Whip which I forgot but can be helpful), even if it doesn't directly enhance your own defense or offense. :)

What clearer mind? I forgot you couldn't multiclass into Monk because of 11 DEX. XD Stupid me.

The point others made about getting Booming Blade from arcanic caster is solid though: it may be a reason to get Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate feat sometime. :)

Tell me about it.. between the cold and having to deal with drunkards at work my brain cells aren't cooperating either. I'm so used to think path features = 3rd lvl I forgot Wizards get theirs at 2nd.

The appeal from EK comes from being thematically appropriate for my character and being able to use a cantrip followed by a bonus attack (which would trigger all the juicy stuff from war cleric and fighter). Booming Blade is a very solid cantrip, but if its just for that Magic Initiate would net me that as well without the need of dipping.

[djreynolds]

Even 1 level of wizard will net as many 1st level spells as you can find, you just have to find or purchase scrolls. Any school will do

Depending on your DM, druid could be a grab for a few levels, but since you wear plate armor (metal) the answer could be "no"

Fighter is an obvious choice, and EK or BM are both good choices

But you could take this guy to 12th level, and place +2 ASI into charisma and then become a paladin

I might ask the DM if you could swap you 13 in intelligence for the 11 in charisma and grab some paladin levels

But, IMO, if you feel you want to multiclass, even if you are bored with playing a cleric... go for it.

[Pyramid Pug]

Even 1 level of wizard will net as many 1st level spells as you can find, you just have to find or purchase scrolls. Any school will do

Depending on your DM, druid could be a grab for a few levels, but since you wear plate armor (metal) the answer could be "no"

Fighter is an obvious choice, and EK or BM are both good choices

But you could take this guy to 12th level, and place +2 ASI into charisma and then become a paladin

I might ask the DM if you could swap you 13 in intelligence for the 11 in charisma and grab some paladin levels

But, IMO, if you feel you want to multiclass, even if you are bored with playing a cleric... go for it.

It's not so much "bored with cleric" as me feeling the War Domain doesn't favor my situation. Cleric is versatile but that versatility requires planning which I did poorly at the beginning. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have allocated the 13 int to charisma instead, picked another domain and bumped char instead of str.

[GorogIrongut]

It's not so much "bored with cleric" as me feeling the War Domain doesn't favor my situation. Cleric is versatile but that versatility requires planning which I did poorly at the beginning. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have allocated the 13 int to charisma instead, picked another domain and bumped char instead of str.

This is EXACTLY what you need to say to your DM. Considering how melee centric your team mates are, he should understand the need of a strong caster. If he's sensible, he should let you change from War (a poor choice for a domain) to Arcana and let you swap your stats around a smidge. Then you'd have a Cleric who has access to wizard spells and the divine soul stays in theme while giving you access to metamagics.

[djreynolds]

What spells do you use as a cleric?

What do you concentrate on?

You party is like the band "Rush", you are a three-piece.

Spirit guardians is a great spell, especially coupled with booming blade and war caster.

The enemy takes radiant damage and tries to leave, and then you get a reaction attack with a spell like booming blade, and then they take thunder damage. And now they decide to continue to move and take more thunder damage or stay put and take more radiant damage.

Or throw up bless, for all three of you.

If feel what your might feel you are missing is "fireball" type of spell that rocks the enemy and says "I'm here!"

Do you use aid or warding bond? What other spells do you use?

[Pyramid Pug]

What spells do you use as a cleric?

What do you concentrate on?

You party is like the band "Rush", you are a three-piece.

Spirit guardians is a great spell, especially coupled with booming blade and war caster.

The enemy takes radiant damage and tries to leave, and then you get a reaction attack with a spell like booming blade, and then they take thunder damage. And now they decide to continue to move and take more thunder damage or stay put and take more radiant damage.

Or throw up bless, for all three of you.

If feel what your might feel you are missing is "fireball" type of spell that rocks the enemy and says "I'm here!"

Do you use aid or warding bond? What other spells do you use?

I use spirit guardians (I have it flavoured as the ancestor spirits fallen in service to Clangeddin rising up to aid the faithful) and spiritual weapon (that misses more often than not). I confess I hadn't payed much attention to Warding Bond, if anything because of the material components (I am NOT marrying the barbarian!)but its actually pretty good.

Aid.. okay lasts 8 hours, doesn't require con, but it's 5 hp with a 2nd slot spell.. is it that worth it?

And at the core of this is the War Domain. All those spells above I could do with any domain and War doesn't bolster any of that. The bonus attack competes with spiritual weapon, reliance on Str or Dex makes me more MAD than with ranged domains like Arcana or Light, making me melee centric makes me take more con checks and Warding Bond actually becomes more of a liability since I take half damage on top of the one I might already get being at the forefront.

Granted there's a case to be made for War Domain on a party that lacks front line squirmishers, I still believe they make good tanks, but that's not the case with my party.

Like folks said above, MC sorcerer would actually benefit me more in that regard as I could extend range and duration of spells. Upcasting Aid with extended duration before a long rest would be an awesome idea for instance, as well as increasing the range of Spirit Guardians allowing me to pew-pew from a safe distance.

[sophontteks]

No, aid is not worth it any longer, not at your level. I wouldn't take sorceror levels at the expense of higher-level spells just to upcast and extend aid.

[djreynolds]

I use spirit guardians (I have it flavoured as the ancestor spirits fallen in service to Clangeddin rising up to aid the faithful) and spiritual weapon (that misses more often than not). I confess I hadn't payed much attention to Warding Bond, if anything because of the material components (I am NOT marrying the barbarian!)but its actually pretty good.

Aid.. okay lasts 8 hours, doesn't require con, but it's 5 hp with a 2nd slot spell.. is it that worth it?

And at the core of this is the War Domain. All those spells above I could do with any domain and War doesn't bolster any of that. The bonus attack competes with spiritual weapon, reliance on Str or Dex makes me more MAD than with ranged domains like Arcana or Light, making me melee centric makes me take more con checks and Warding Bond actually becomes more of a liability since I take half damage on top of the one I might already get being at the forefront.

Granted there's a case to be made for War Domain on a party that lacks front line squirmishers, I still believe they make good tanks, but that's not the case with my party.

Like folks said above, MC sorcerer would actually benefit me more in that regard as I could extend range and duration of spells. Upcasting Aid with extended duration before a long rest would be an awesome idea for instance, as well as increasing the range of Spirit Guardians allowing me to pew-pew from a safe distance.

Of the other cleric archetypes, of their spells which do you like?

Tempest has some good offensive stuff, like call lightning and destructive wave.

Light has a fireball

Crusader mantle is good for you friends, flame strike is underwhelming but not terrible, and you get hold monster (huge spell).... think of your 9th level rogue auto-crit with sneak attack.... and the barbarian as well.

Remember you have spiritual weapon standing by when you run out of you war "priest's" bonus attacks

As for damage, I love an up casted inflict wounds, necrotic damage 3d10 at 1st level, and 1d10 every level after

Ask you DM to make you a tempest cleric, and just grab magic initiate for booming blade or take some war wizard and grab some cantrips and any 1st level spell you come across.... add it to your spell book.

Freedom of movement, well placed guardians of faith are good spells.

I would just enjoy playing a cleric, you have awesome stats at 8th level. Next time role up something else.

I have found no matter what character I make, something is always lacking just because of part dynamics or the campaign itself. I find myself thinking ahead of new campaigns and new combos.
So I relax, enjoy the game at hand and the other players. Buff them up, let them shine and grab a friend so you have four players, like a sorcerer or wizard.

Good luck to you

[Pyramid Pug]

Of the other cleric archetypes, of their spells which do you like?

Tempest has some good offensive stuff, like call lightning and destructive wave.

Light has a fireball

Crusader mantle is good for you friends, flame strike is underwhelming but not terrible, and you get hold monster (huge spell).... think of your 9th level rogue auto-crit with sneak attack.... and the barbarian as well.

Remember you have spiritual weapon standing by when you run out of you war "priest's" bonus attacks

As for damage, I love an up casted inflict wounds, necrotic damage 3d10 at 1st level, and 1d10 every level after

Ask you DM to make you a tempest cleric, and just grab magic initiate for booming blade or take some war wizard and grab some cantrips and any 1st level spell you come across.... add it to your spell book.

Freedom of movement, well placed guardians of faith are good spells.

I would just enjoy playing a cleric, you have awesome stats at 8th level. Next time role up something else.

I have found no matter what character I make, something is always lacking just because of part dynamics or the campaign itself. I find myself thinking ahead of new campaigns and new combos.
So I relax, enjoy the game at hand and the other players. Buff them up, let them shine and grab a friend so you have four players, like a sorcerer or wizard.

Good luck to you

Very, very good points, and my fussing about this is precisely because I don't want another character, I want THIS one, love the story and memories, which is why I'm focusing on improving him rather than rolling a new one.

Anywho, my DM got in touch with me and told me the plans for the warhammer which are really cool and solve some the issues I've been having. I'll go with 1 more level of cleric for access to the sweet lvl 5 spells and then go EK bumping str, con and wis.

On a side note, here's my experience with Inflict Wounds..

"Okay you know what? I'm done with this mofo! UPCAST INFLICT WOUNDS, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!" *hit fails* "CHANNEL ON MYSELF, IT'S GOING DOWN!"

"okay, okay, you hit the beastie dark rot seems to spread around the area you touched, roll the damage."

*Angrily picks up 5d10, proceeds to roll 12 damage*

.. and that was the last time I casted inflict wounds.. :smallbiggrin:

I have bad luck with dice, but I'm fine with it 'cause its always in a hilarious way.

Other examples include coming up with a contrived plan to stealthly escort a bunch of npcs across a guarded hallway, successfully make all the stealth rolls except for the last one.. which was my character..

And my personal favorite.. "Yo Pug, you sure about this? The yeti been hitting pretty hard.." "It's fine I got a pretty high AC, what are the odds of it even hitting me?"
*DM proceeds to crit twice in a row*

Was the first time my character went down too lol.

[djreynolds]

Our 5th level wizard was all excited when he lit up a giant with a lightning bolt for 26 in damage. And then I hit someone with my firebolt, and rolled 2 10's.

What I think you are looking for is static damage, GWM or SS, and war cleric has the chops to land these strikes because spells and class features

Battlemaster has precision, and war cleric has bless and guided strike.... grab GWM and go to town... even if it is just one attack... its guaranteed 10 points of damage every hit. It will make you "feel" awesome

If you kill someone you get a bonus attack, if not you use your BA from war priest, with 19 wisdom, 4xs a long rest

It will level 13 before you have the extra attack feature from fighter

[Blood of Gaea]

So to sum it up.. continue on to lvl 10 for the spell goodies and cantrips (toll the dead), then go EK. Fighting Style can be either duelling or defence. Pick Booming Blade and utility/no int using spells and for the ASI get a bump to STR (18), Resilient Con (17) and bump Con and Wis to 18 and 20 respectively. Sounds like a plan folks, thanks for helping focus and refine my thoughts folks! :D
You could also just pick up Booming Blade through Magic Initiate.



On a side note I still think there's potential for a Wizard Tank character using the War Magic Tradition.. Fighter 5 for the con save and fighting style either Defence or Duelling,
MA Cavalier for the mark or Battlemaster for the maneuvers and extra attack, 1 War Cleric for the shield of faith and guidance, 14 war wizard. Shield of faith gives +2 ac, with Durable Magic its another +2, and another +2 on reaction with arcane deflection or +4 with the spell shield, and +1 from defense (fighting style). Plate armor and a shield would give it 20 and everything added up gives.. 27 ac (29 if using the Shield spell)! Health would be on the low side tho.. but that's a story for another character
I'd probably go for 12 Eldritch Knight/8 War Magic.

[djreynolds]

[QUOTE=Blood of Gaea;23049784]You could also just pick up Booming Blade through Magic Initiate.
QUOTE]

This is probably the best option for more oomph in your hits also.

[Vorpalchicken]

Am I the only one that thinks the War Domain is not so bad? A lot of combats you just don't want to cast spiritual weapon.

Maybe it's a short fight. Maybe you're busy casting healing word half the time. Maybe the enemy is not hurt by low level spells. Maybe it's AC is high and you need the magic weapon and archery bonus to hit it reliably (not as applicable here.)

I'd still prepare spiritual weapon because it's useful in a lot of situations but sometimes you just want to make one bonus action weapon attack and that's it.

[Blood of Gaea]

Am I the only one that thinks the War Domain is not so bad? A lot of combats you just don't want to cast spiritual weapon.

Maybe it's a short fight. Maybe you're busy casting healing word half the time. Maybe the enemy is not hurt by low level spells. Maybe it's AC is high and you need the magic weapon and archery bonus to hit it reliably (not as applicable here.)

I'd still prepare spiritual weapon because it's useful in a lot of situations but sometimes you just want to make one bonus action weapon attack and that's it.
It's not gimped, it's just not that great compared to the other options you have.

[Pyramid Pug]

What would be the advantage of picking up BB through MI over getting it with EK? I mean with EK I can eventually cast it and then attack as a bonus triggering all the conditionals from fighter/ war cleric.

What would be the plan with getting it through MI?

And GWM doesn't do much for me as I usually sword 'N board with my warhammer (plus the ASIs are getting a wee bit scarce)

On a side note, gonna try and convince my DM to let me replace Spare the dying with Toll the Dead when next I level.

[Blood of Gaea]

What would be the advantage of picking up BB through MI over getting it with EK? I mean with EK I can eventually cast it and then attack as a bonus triggering all the conditionals from fighter/ war cleric.

What would be the plan with getting it through MI?

And GWM doesn't do much for me as I usually sword 'N board with my warhammer (plus the ASIs are getting a wee bit scarce)

On a side note, gonna try and convince my DM to let me replace Spare the dying with Toll the Dead when next I level.
Your spell progression. You lose access to higher level spells as well as spell slots. You can just take Magic Initiate, keep all your potential spells and slots, and then also have some extra potency to your melee attack if you wish.

That's not to say that Fighter isn't a good option, because it is so long as what you're wanting to do is be very good with your hammer.

[CTurbo]

I'd only be excited about Magic Initiate if you can get excited about both cantrips and the 1st level spell. It's a good feat though. Find Familiar is my go-to first level spell, and is great for any character. Just keep in mind that you'll only be able to cast the 1st level spell once per day so I don't like things like Shield that many people seem to love.

[Citan]

Very, very good points, and my fussing about this is precisely because I don't want another character, I want THIS one, love the story and memories, which is why I'm focusing on improving him rather than rolling a new one.

Anywho, my DM got in touch with me and told me the plans for the warhammer which are really cool and solve some the issues I've been having. I'll go with 1 more level of cleric for access to the sweet lvl 5 spells and then go EK bumping str, con and wis.

On a side note, here's my experience with Inflict Wounds..

"Okay you know what? I'm done with this mofo! UPCAST INFLICT WOUNDS, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN!" *hit fails* "CHANNEL ON MYSELF, IT'S GOING DOWN!"

"okay, okay, you hit the beastie dark rot seems to spread around the area you touched, roll the damage."

*Angrily picks up 5d10, proceeds to roll 12 damage*

.. and that was the last time I casted inflict wounds.. :smallbiggrin:

I have bad luck with dice, but I'm fine with it 'cause its always in a hilarious way.

Other examples include coming up with a contrived plan to stealthly escort a bunch of npcs across a guarded hallway, successfully make all the stealth rolls except for the last one.. which was my character..

And my personal favorite.. "Yo Pug, you sure about this? The yeti been hitting pretty hard.." "It's fine I got a pretty high AC, what are the odds of it even hitting me?"
*DM proceeds to crit twice in a row*

Was the first time my character went down too lol.
Honestly if your main point of multiclassing EK was to get Booming Blade + weapon attack as bonus action, I'd say that your earlier idea of discussing with DM to swap INT and CHA or even bump CHA one way or another to multiclass Sorcerer would be MUCH better.
Sure, you wouldn't be able to use this combo regularly, because Quicken is costly. BUT...
- You would not get redundant equipment proficiency.
- You would get to try it after 3 levels instead of 7.
- You wouldn't get redundant Extra Attack (because you plan on using Booming Blade anyways).
- You would get 4 cantrips immediately, and Shield + Absorb Elements also immediately.
- You would get many more spell slots to upcast your usual spells (Aid, Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon).
- You would get another metamagic (Subtle, Distant, Extend all great for you).

:)

[Pyramid Pug]

Honestly if your main point of multiclassing EK was to get Booming Blade + weapon attack as bonus action, I'd say that your earlier idea of discussing with DM to swap INT and CHA or even bump CHA one way or another to multiclass Sorcerer would be MUCH better.
Sure, you wouldn't be able to use this combo regularly, because Quicken is costly. BUT...
- You would not get redundant equipment proficiency.
- You would get to try it after 3 levels instead of 7.
- You wouldn't get redundant Extra Attack (because you plan on using Booming Blade anyways).
- You would get 4 cantrips immediately, and Shield + Absorb Elements also immediately.
- You would get many more spell slots to upcast your usual spells (Aid, Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon).
- You would get another metamagic (Subtle, Distant, Extend all great for you).

:)

-Redundant equip, I agree
-GOLIATH ONLINE at lvl 3 rather than 7 I agree
-Cantrips for days + Shield and Absorb hell yeah I agree
-MOAR SPELL SLOTS TO FEED THE ADDICTION, I agree
- Metamagic, no thanks I'm goo.. just kidding 30 feet spirit guardians with a angry barbarian in the way is downright hilarious. Twinned shield of faith is also sweet.

-Redundant extra attack.. this part I don't get.. BB doesn't trigger divine strike or a fighter's extra attack due to being a spell, BUT the bonus attack from the EK lvl 7 would trigger all that stuff.. wouldn't it?

[darknite]

I added a level of Sorcerer to my War Cleric to get the SCAG battle cantrips.

[Pyramid Pug]

Then what about this.. foregoing the extra attack entirely, take advantage of the 13 int already and go War Wizard? Would get full spell progression, cantrips galore, ritual magic (well scribable, non-prepared, wizard magic anyway), +2 ac as reaction, initiative bonus, and a bunch of spells including shield. Could boost int and wis to 16 and 20 respectively.

Could pick up a bunch of utility stuff, like Shield, identify (this is a sore spot in our party lol), invisibility, magic missile, mage hand, booming blade and so on, tho 16 int isn't too shabby for attack rolls (even more considering I have the channel divinity that gives +10 to hit).

Chatting up with my Barbarian friend and he told me he sees himself as the tank of the party, which is fine by me, it's less one party role I feel the need to fill.

[Citan]

-Redundant equip, I agree
-GOLIATH ONLINE at lvl 3 rather than 7 I agree
-Cantrips for days + Shield and Absorb hell yeah I agree
-MOAR SPELL SLOTS TO FEED THE ADDICTION, I agree
- Metamagic, no thanks I'm goo.. just kidding 30 feet spirit guardians with a angry barbarian in the way is downright hilarious. Twinned shield of faith is also sweet.

-Redundant extra attack.. this part I don't get.. BB doesn't trigger divine strike or a fighter's extra attack due to being a spell, BUT the bonus attack from the EK lvl 7 would trigger all that stuff.. wouldn't it?
Redundant was probably not the best use of the word...

What I meant was that, if you planned on using Booming Blade as your main way of dealing damage on "mundane" (aka normal) turn, then getting Extra Attack would be mostly useless since your action would already be taken.

With that said, I don't know about your special weapon in detail, so you may or not prefer having more weapon attacks.
Ultimately, my point is: choose either Extra Attack OR Booming Blade and build around, but War Magic is lesser than Sorcerer's Quickened overall in the latter case.

[GorogIrongut]

- Metamagic, no thanks I'm goo.. just kidding 30 feet spirit guardians with a angry barbarian in the way is downright hilarious. Twinned shield of faith is also sweet.Don't forget booming blade... It makes your uber spirit guardians a little bit more evil.

-Redundant extra attack.. this part I don't get.. BB doesn't trigger divine strike or a fighter's extra attack due to being a spell, BUT the bonus attack from the EK lvl 7 would trigger all that stuff.. wouldn't it?

'Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 damage of the same type dealt by the weapon to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.'
&
Booming Blade
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.
On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves be- fore then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels.

Maybe I'm blind... but everything above seems to tell me that BB does trigger Divine Strike. And yes, I stand by what Citan said about extra attack being redundant if you're using BB.

[Pyramid Pug]

Redundant was probably not the best use of the word...

What I meant was that, if you planned on using Booming Blade as your main way of dealing damage on "mundane" (aka normal) turn, then getting Extra Attack would be mostly useless since your action would already be taken.

With that said, I don't know about your special weapon in detail, so you may or not prefer having more weapon attacks.
Ultimately, my point is: choose either Extra Attack OR Booming Blade and build around, but War Magic is lesser than Sorcerer's Quickened overall in the latter case.


'Divine Strike
At 8th level, you gain the ability to infuse your weapon strikes with divine energy. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can cause the attack to deal an extra 1d8 damage of the same type dealt by the weapon to the target. When you reach 14th level, the extra damage increases to 2d8.'
&
Booming Blade
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell's range, otherwise the spell fails.
On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects, and it becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves be- fore then, it immediately takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
This spell's damage increases when you reach higher levels.

Maybe I'm blind... but everything above seems to tell me that BB does trigger Divine Strike. And yes, I stand by what Citan said about extra attack being redundant if you're using BB.

I'm applying the same logic to Divine Strike as the extra attacks of the fighter class, in that they don't trigger because BB is a spell and not an attack action. What I mean though is that the lvl 7 ability of a EK lets me cast a cantrip and use a weapon attack as a bonus action. Wouldn't that bonus weapon attack trigger the divine strike AND the fighter's extra attacks?

'Cause if not and Divine strike does trigger on BB, then hell yeah I'm better off with a spell casting class than with a fighter's extra attacks.

[GorogIrongut]

I'm applying the same logic to Divine Strike as the extra attacks of the fighter class, in that they don't trigger because BB is a spell and not an attack action. What I mean though is that the lvl 7 ability of a EK lets me cast a cantrip and use a weapon attack as a bonus action. Wouldn't that bonus weapon attack trigger the divine strike AND the fighter's extra attacks?

'Cause if not and Divine strike does trigger on BB, then hell yeah I'm better off with a spell casting class than with a fighter's extra attacks.
1. By the way I read it, once per turn, if you hit something with a weapon attack (note, it doesn't say melee so you could be an archer... you just need to make a weapon attack), then Divine Strike takes effect. You could have 3 attacks from being a fighter. You could be using BB. As long as you've performed a weapon attack and it hit, you can apply Divine Strike once.

2. The bonus action attack from War Magic is as follows.
War Magic
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
So you could do a cantrip for your Action. And then your bonus action would be a single attack that of course could trigger Divine Strike if it hadn't already been triggered by a cantrip.

Personally, in my explorations when playing an Eldritch Knight, initially War Magic looks nice. But really it's kind of naff. Not worth the effort. I've also found that BB is swing'y but roughly equivalent to a martial with two attacks. Three and four attacks on a fighter will be a little bit better than BB. But your character won't be able to make a significant enough of an investment in levels to get anywhere near that. So my recommendation stands. Go Sorceror. Get BB to make up for the melee side of your character. Enjoy metamagic and lots of increase spellcasting from being a full caster. Profit.

[Citan]

I'm applying the same logic to Divine Strike as the extra attacks of the fighter class, in that they don't trigger because BB is a spell and not an attack action. What I mean though is that the lvl 7 ability of a EK lets me cast a cantrip and use a weapon attack as a bonus action. Wouldn't that bonus weapon attack trigger the divine strike AND the fighter's extra attacks?

'Cause if not and Divine strike does trigger on BB, then hell yeah I'm better off with a spell casting class than with a fighter's extra attacks.
Nope. That's the thing.

1/ BB and Divine Strike relationship
It works, by RAW, as illustrated by GorogIrongut: Divine Strike is a bonus you apply once per turn when you "hit with a melee weapon attack".
Booming Blade, as part of the spell effect, makes you try and "hit with a melee weapon attack". Condition fulfilled, completely independently from the spell's other effects.
That's exactly why people have been frowning upon this and Green Flame Blade, as the only cantrips of all game that meshes directly with weapon attack optimization.

2/ Bonus action, War Magic and Extra Attack
Let's remind, for starters, that bonus action are just that: *bonus* action, aka "something you can do because you fulfilled a prerequisite (often enough anyways, although things like Cunning Action are standalone)".
Per RAW, dual-wielding allows you to make a bonus action weapon attack BECAUSE you used your action to Attack with a melee weapon (I'll spare the details).
War Magic uses the same principle: it's *because* you use your action to cast a cantrip that you can take a weapon attack with your bonus action (whether you make it before or after).

So, if you're dual-wielding, whatever you use your action on, you will have the option of making one more weapon attack, although different in latitude (in Extra Attack case, damage is lessened unless appropriate FS and you have to take it after Attack).
And it will be one *only*: the Extra Attack feature only triggers when you *take the Attack action*, it may be that bit you missed that confused you.

And for someone that doesn't have GWM or the like, comparing actions, Booming Blade comes far out above (unless you tell us that your special warhammer deals like 15 extra damage XD).

Since in addition to that, you as a Cleric should have enough uses for bonus actions (Sanctuary, Healing Words, Spiritual Weapon etc) and you could get even more as a Druid (Heat Metal, Flaming Sphere) I think the bake is cooked already. ;)



Personally, in my explorations when playing an Eldritch Knight, initially War Magic looks nice. But really it's kind of naff. Not worth the effort. I've also found that BB is swing'y but roughly equivalent to a martial with two attacks. Three and four attacks on a fighter will be a little bit better than BB. But your character won't be able to make a significant enough of an investment in levels to get anywhere near that. So my recommendation stands. Go Sorceror. Get BB to make up for the melee side of your character. Enjoy metamagic and lots of increase spellcasting from being a full caster. Profit.
Yeah: Booming Blade, without riders, is just under 2 attacks at level 5, just above at level 11, and roughly 3 attacks at level 17 IIRC. Whenever rider triggers obviously it gets much better. :)

IMO War Magic is nice for whenever you, as a martial, would like to add an interesting effect rather than just deal damage (like, preventing an enemy to reach you with Ray of Frost, or weakening two creatures with Poison Spray) but want to be sure to at least deal some damage (because, usually, attack stat will be much better than casting stat so cantrip may miss). Or maybe just try something different against a high AC target, while still picking off a small creature at the same time.
So it's great as a way to diversify tactical options. As far as pure damage goes? Overall because you get so many ASI to spend feats on and highest number of weapon attacks Extra Attack is better for most characters.

[Pyramid Pug]

1. By the way I read it, once per turn, if you hit something with a weapon attack (note, it doesn't say melee so you could be an archer... you just need to make a weapon attack), then Divine Strike takes effect. You could have 3 attacks from being a fighter. You could be using BB. As long as you've performed a weapon attack and it hit, you can apply Divine Strike once.

2. The bonus action attack from War Magic is as follows.
War Magic
Beginning at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action.
So you could do a cantrip for your Action. And then your bonus action would be a single attack that of course could trigger Divine Strike if it hadn't already been triggered by a cantrip.

Personally, in my explorations when playing an Eldritch Knight, initially War Magic looks nice. But really it's kind of naff. Not worth the effort. I've also found that BB is swing'y but roughly equivalent to a martial with two attacks. Three and four attacks on a fighter will be a little bit better than BB. But your character won't be able to make a significant enough of an investment in levels to get anywhere near that. So my recommendation stands. Go Sorceror. Get BB to make up for the melee side of your character. Enjoy metamagic and lots of increase spellcasting from being a full caster. Profit.

That settles that then.. still need to find a way to persuade my DM. We're adventuring in Shadowfel trying to find our way back home so maybe the experience there left a mark on my character and changed his nature (AKA shifted stats) to that of a sorcerer. And yes, we're aware that we could use Banishment and even debated that at the table (and we really have no reason to be there, we got dragged by accident), but our DM had put so much work into that location and story we felt it would be a crappy move on our part. A good story is a terrible thing to waste!

That brings up the part of the sorcerous origin tho.. which one would be best?

Favoured soul is kinda obvious, but I already have access to cleric spells which is the main draw for that origin..
Draconic doesn't do much with the scales (already have heavy armor) tho the charisma bonus to an elemental type ain't bad..
Phoenix is.. meh a feature that's similar to others but only for 1 minute and on a long rest, plus another that's contingent on me dying..
Sea Sorcery is cool, but I'm already playing as one on another campaign and it really has nothing to do with my dwarf character or our adventures.
Shadow sorcery is... okay I can get the warlock devil sight/darkness combo for some SP and I can.. summon a dog? wut? Anywho, would be competing with my bonus action and more limited sp, plus wouldn't be much in tune with the character (we're getting really aggravated towards shadow stuff of lately lol).
Stone sorcery again overlaps with lots of stuff I already got going on..
Wild magic.. I've already mentioned my luck with dice, I ain't touching that with a 10 feet pole.. (maybe if I ever make a gambler type character for laughs)

Honestly that leaves either Pyro or Storm.. I'm rather inclined to Pyro since that's also the magical atribute of my warhammer, would make sense it's nature somehow seeping into my dwarf. Resistance to fire and ignoring fire resist on spells is also nice.

[Citan]

That settles that then.. still need to find a way to persuade my DM. We're adventuring in Shadowfel trying to find our way back home so maybe the experience there left a mark on my character and changed his nature (AKA shifted stats) to that of a sorcerer. And yes, we're aware that we could use Banishment and even debated that at the table (and we really have no reason to be there, we got dragged by accident), but our DM had put so much work into that location and story we felt it would be a crappy move on our part. A good story is a terrible thing to waste!

That brings up the part of the sorcerous origin tho.. which one would be best?

Favoured soul is kinda obvious, but I already have access to cleric spells which is the main draw for that origin..
Draconic doesn't do much with the scales (already have heavy armor) tho the charisma bonus to an elemental type ain't bad..
Phoenix is.. meh a feature that's similar to others but only for 1 minute and on a long rest, plus another that's contingent on me dying..
Sea Sorcery is cool, but I'm already playing as one on another campaign and it really has nothing to do with my dwarf character or our adventures.
Shadow sorcery is... okay I can get the warlock devil sight/darkness combo for some SP and I can.. summon a dog? wut? Anywho, would be competing with my bonus action and more limited sp, plus wouldn't be much in tune with the character (we're getting really aggravated towards shadow stuff of lately lol).
Stone sorcery again overlaps with lots of stuff I already got going on..
Wild magic.. I've already mentioned my luck with dice, I ain't touching that with a 10 feet pole.. (maybe if I ever make a gambler type character for laughs)

Honestly that leaves either Pyro or Storm.. I'm rather inclined to Pyro since that's also the magical atribute of my warhammer, would make sense it's nature somehow seeping into my dwarf. Resistance to fire and ignoring fire resist on spells is also nice.
Hi!

As far as getting 13 CHA, unless your DM is touchy on that topic for whatever reason it shouldn't be that hard... You may be touched with a rare curse that swaps INT and CHA, you may undergo a special training for months to increase your CHA or maybe just find a Tome.
Worse or the worse, just use an ASI on it.
I mean, you seem obviously "full" of what you're interested into Cleric, and you got IIRC a 19 WIS. It's not like you are that hungry for ASIs... So if you really like the Sorcerer idea, go for it one way or another. ;)

As for the origin...
I won't speak for UA, so for official only my vote would have gone for Shadow, without any doubt, but you don't like the mechanics so much and it goes against your fluff...
So I'd say Pyro then, especially since from what you say it matches the hammer. The bonus damage is nothing to sneeze at either, since per their own wording it applies to *every* instance of damage. XD

[GorogIrongut]

Hi!

As far as getting 13 CHA, unless your DM is touchy on that topic for whatever reason it shouldn't be that hard... You may be touched with a rare curse that swaps INT and CHA, you may undergo a special training for months to increase your CHA or maybe just find a Tome.
Worse or the worse, just use an ASI on it.
I mean, you seem obviously "full" of what you're interested into Cleric, and you got IIRC a 19 WIS. It's not like you are that hungry for ASIs... So if you really like the Sorcerer idea, go for it one way or another. ;)

I'd combine the first two. For the next couple months, the OP's character goes through a rite of transformation, probably instigated by their god. As DM, I'd probably make it involve some fasting and self flagellation (if you're going Pyro, then it would obviously involve ritualistic burning of tattoos into his flesh). To do something like that would show devotion and a distinct lack of intelligence. It would also boost charisma by making his character look more fierce/imposing.
Voila! You now have an in game reason to swap the two character stats that takes a period of time to take effect (thus limiting an immediate change of a stat change that isn't really a big deal). It also doesn't really impede the player's progress because he still needs to take his character to level 10, so the time it takes to finish levelling up, is spent on the rite of transformation. They should all fit together smoothly.

*puts in two cents*
I would still go for Favoured Soul. But that's because I was only thinking you would do a 3 level dip into sorceror so that you could still get access to level 9 spells by doing 17 in cleric.
If doing a 3 level dip you get the cross cleric spells through Divine Magic, which isn't a big deal, but it still nets you a free slot in something like Bless or Cure Wounds. You can't really complain even if it's not fabulous. Focus all your Sorceror spell slots on Sorceror magic. Then you get the very good Favoured by the Gods ability. 2d4 that can be applied to attacks or a saving throw per short rest....? Yes please.

And because I'm letting my mind wander around things that I would do... I'd probably skip trying to talk your DM into an Arcana change. Because for some reason, Forge appeals much more to me.


All of that said, don't listen to me. These are the things that I would want to play. My fun may not be your fun.

[Pyramid Pug]

Hi!

As far as getting 13 CHA, unless your DM is touchy on that topic for whatever reason it shouldn't be that hard... You may be touched with a rare curse that swaps INT and CHA, you may undergo a special training for months to increase your CHA or maybe just find a Tome.
Worse or the worse, just use an ASI on it.
I mean, you seem obviously "full" of what you're interested into Cleric, and you got IIRC a 19 WIS. It's not like you are that hungry for ASIs... So if you really like the Sorcerer idea, go for it one way or another. ;)

As for the origin...
I won't speak for UA, so for official only my vote would have gone for Shadow, without any doubt, but you don't like the mechanics so much and it goes against your fluff...
So I'd say Pyro then, especially since from what you say it matches the hammer. The bonus damage is nothing to sneeze at either, since per their own wording it applies to *every* instance of damage. XD


I'd combine the first two. For the next couple months, the OP's character goes through a rite of transformation, probably instigated by their god. As DM, I'd probably make it involve some fasting and self flagellation (if you're going Pyro, then it would obviously involve ritualistic burning of tattoos into his flesh). To do something like that would show devotion and a distinct lack of intelligence. It would also boost charisma by making his character look more fierce/imposing.
Voila! You now have an in game reason to swap the two character stats that takes a period of time to take effect (thus limiting an immediate change of a stat change that isn't really a big deal). It also doesn't really impede the player's progress because he still needs to take his character to level 10, so the time it takes to finish levelling up, is spent on the rite of transformation. They should all fit together smoothly.

*puts in two cents*
I would still go for Favoured Soul. But that's because I was only thinking you would do a 3 level dip into sorceror so that you could still get access to level 9 spells by doing 17 in cleric.
If doing a 3 level dip you get the cross cleric spells through Divine Magic, which isn't a big deal, but it still nets you a free slot in something like Bless or Cure Wounds. You can't really complain even if it's not fabulous. Focus all your Sorceror spell slots on Sorceror magic. Then you get the very good Favoured by the Gods ability. 2d4 that can be applied to attacks or a saving throw per short rest....? Yes please.

And because I'm letting my mind wander around things that I would do... I'd probably skip trying to talk your DM into an Arcana change. Because for some reason, Forge appeals much more to me.


All of that said, don't listen to me. These are the things that I would want to play. My fun may not be your fun.

Sorry folks, just finished having a session, finally got to hit something with a spell on my Halfling Warlock! I need to buy him a pair of glasses dammit! Still, was a real fun session. "Can I figure out what killed those corpses?" "Nah they're too far go.. you know what? Make an int check, if you roll 20 I'll tell ya." "GOGO NAT 20!!" *proceeds to roll a nat 20*

Anywho, these are all fantastic and colourful suggestions but alas the DM said nay-nay on the stat swap. It's fine, he already puts up with so much BS from me I feel grateful as it is, and he did disclose the plans for the warhammer, he's gonna make it a throwable weapon when next we level up (the weapon grows in power with my character).

So.. the way I see it.. given the melee focus of the party, preserving spell slot progression is the best course of action. That means:

-Keep going full cleric, not that I fancy the lvl 20 cap, but the ASI are good. Suppose I could dip 1 lvl in something else for the lvl 1 goodies
-Keep going as cleric 'till at least lvl 17 for the resistances and lvl 9 spells, maybe dip 3 lvls of something else (maybe ranger revised for fighting style dueling, colossus slayer and natural explorer). This would require a bump in str and I would also like to pick MI for BB.
- Dipping Wizard, probably war tradition, since I have 13 int
-Keep going cleric 'till lvl 12, bump charisma and then multiclass sorcerer. That would give me 8 lvl of sorcerer, meaning two more bumps and making me even more mad.

In any case, making my hammer throwable will allow me more leeway in my positioning and allow the barbarian to be the tank lessening my role burden. This means I can focus more on spell casting and battlefield control.

And on that matter, what spells you folks consider good for that?

[MeeposFire]

Just as a clarification divine strike works with weapon attacks...ALL of them.

This includes ranged attacks so you can get divine strike when using a bow.

Just mentioning it because a to of people keep saying "melee attack" with it and divine strike works with melee and range.

[Blood of Gaea]

This means I can focus more on spell casting and battlefield control.

And on that matter, what spells you folks consider good for that?
Spirit Guardians, Banishment, Dawn, Blindness/Deafness, and Hold Person are all pretty solid.

[djreynolds]

You know, you have very cool and interesting character and it seems everyone wants play it.
If the DM says, "what you have is what you have", then really your choice with your stats... is wizard or fighter or more cleric.
And quite frankly all are arguably very good choices.
Now war wizard or EK if you stay S&B, will possibly require war caster at some point. But your spell slots at least continue to increase.
IMO, I would grab 1 level of wizard just to get some other spells and cantrips, as suggested like shield, absorb elements, BB, GFB, find familiar, etc. And the reason is a small dip really doesn't screw up your cleric progression that much and your spell level increases.
Whereas EK is at least 3 levels, then you stay for 4th level ASI, the 5th level, extra attack, then 6th level ASI, then war magic, then 8th level ASI, etc.
War wizard, which fits, only costs 2 levels and you can move on back to cleric. Because at some point you will need access those higher level cleric spells as your campaign gets more difficult.

[Pyramid Pug]

Just as a clarification divine strike works with weapon attacks...ALL of them.

This includes ranged attacks so you can get divine strike when using a bow.

Just mentioning it because a to of people keep saying "melee attack" with it and divine strike works with melee and range.

Yeah I'm counting on that (well once per turn anyway). Was one of the reasons I was considering the long bow earlier.


Spirit Guardians, Banishment, Dawn, Blindness/Deafness, and Hold Person are all pretty solid.

Yeh, Spirit guardians are my buddies, they never let me down. Ooooh and upcasting the others lets me target more peeps... I'll need to revise my spell list..


You know, you have very cool and interesting character and it seems everyone wants play it.
If the DM says, "what you have is what you have", then really your choice with your stats... is wizard or fighter or more cleric.
And quite frankly all are arguably very good choices.
Now war wizard or EK if you stay S&B, will possibly require war caster at some point. But your spell slots at least continue to increase.
IMO, I would grab 1 level of wizard just to get some other spells and cantrips, as suggested like shield, absorb elements, BB, GFB, find familiar, etc. And the reason is a small dip really doesn't screw up your cleric progression that much and your spell level increases.
Whereas EK is at least 3 levels, then you stay for 4th level ASI, the 5th level, extra attack, then 6th level ASI, then war magic, then 8th level ASI, etc.
War wizard, which fits, only costs 2 levels and you can move on back to cleric. Because at some point you will need access those higher level cleric spells as your campaign gets more difficult.

Yeah, that was the conclusion I reached as well. My Barbarian mate has come online (what, just because they use animal pelts and human sized axes doesn't mean they don't have good wi-fi!), and we were spitballin' it. I was focused on the ASI but when I was talking to him I realised I was thinking things wrongly, I have 12 levels ahead of me, but only 3 ASIs, so those are more precious than levels.

So with just 1 level of wizard I can get Booming Blade , Shield and Ritual Magic without having to invest feats in it, enabling me full spell progression, and liberty to assign my ASIs however I see fit.

I already have War Caster, so I'd get Resilient Con (bumping my con to 17), bump Con and Wis to 18 and 20 and finally bumping str to 18.

That seems to give me more bang for my buck. Plus I like the idea of Booming Blade.. "I'm giving you a choice.. you either remain here getting pummeled by me and my ghosts, or move away and get pummeled by me (AoO) and those little vibrations in yah explode alongside your innards.."

[Blood of Gaea]

Yeah, that was the conclusion I reached as well. My Barbarian mate has come online (what, just because they use animal pelts and human sized axes doesn't mean they don't have good wi-fi!), and we were spitballin' it. I was focused on the ASI but when I was talking to him I realised I was thinking things wrongly, I have 12 levels ahead of me, but only 3 ASIs, so those are more precious than levels.

So with just 1 level of wizard I can get Booming Blade , Shield and Ritual Magic without having to invest feats in it, enabling me full spell progression, and liberty to assign my ASIs however I see fit.

I already have War Caster, so I'd get Resilient Con (bumping my con to 17), bump Con and Wis to 18 and 20 and finally bumping str to 18.

That seems to give me more bang for my buck. Plus I like the idea of Booming Blade.. "I'm giving you a choice.. you either remain here getting pummeled by me and my ghosts, or move away and get pummeled by me (AoO) and those little vibrations in yah explode alongside your innards.."
Sounds like a solid plan.

[Pyramid Pug]

Sounds like a solid plan.

Thanks, wouldn't have considered it without you folks, you all changed the way I see clerics and spells and made me realise new options! The cantrip VS extra attack discussion was especially helpful, as well as the metamagic shenannigans (that's helpful for my Halfling) :D

I'll need to talk to my DM but it shouldn't be hard. I don't have to shift stats, doesn't interfere with the character or the hammer story, I'm sort of justified in it (seeking arcane lore to better understand the nature of the hammer), and I have the opportunity (we're currently helping two NPC mages in Shadowfel on the remains of a Netherese city which was the biggest magical empire in Faerun.). Its not like I'm asking them to scribe or cast Wish spells for me, just teach me the basics.