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Talakeal
2018-05-06, 02:57 PM
I have been brainstorming for idea for a new campaign and I am kind of liking the idea of doing a less plot driven campaign, probably either a hex-crawl or a mega-dungeon.

My question is, how do you physically handle the map?


Obviously I make a master map and store it on a PC, but then do I slwoly fill in a copy for the players? Do I hang it on the wall of the gaming room? Do I roll it up and set it out on the table while they are exploring and allow them to move their minis? Do I just narrate where they are and leave map-making up to them?

This seems to be a very large and potentially expensive challenge that I have never had to deal with in the past having always run more linear story driven campaigns without large exploration elements.

Any advice?

Thank!

Knaight
2018-05-06, 03:01 PM
What techniques work depend on just how good your memory is - I tend to use a public map with a simple alphabetical naming system, then a private key that tells me what is actually at the site of the letters, while filling in the rest from memory. If that's a little too memory intensive a public map and a private map work fine, where the public map is much simpler.

Both of these better fit the hex crawl (where the general shape of the terrain might well be known) than dungeons.

jindra34
2018-05-06, 03:04 PM
I have been brainstorming for idea for a new campaign and I am kind of liking the idea of doing a less plot driven campaign, probably either a hex-crawl or a mega-dungeon.

My question is, how do you physically handle the map?


Obviously I make a master map and store it on a PC, but then do I slwoly fill in a copy for the players? Do I hang it on the wall of the gaming room? Do I roll it up and set it out on the table while they are exploring and allow them to move their minis? Do I just narrate where they are and leave map-making up to them?

This seems to be a very large and potentially expensive challenge that I have never had to deal with in the past having always run more linear story driven campaigns without large exploration elements.

Any advice?

Thank!
I let players handle it. After all its there characters making the map, so its not perfectly accurate and inaccuracies are results of their own assumptions. And if they buy a map from someone, well I just print out what they bought. Or maybe if the tech scale is high enough I'll just give them a set of maps in digital form at the start.

Corneel
2018-05-06, 03:25 PM
I have been brainstorming for idea for a new campaign and I am kind of liking the idea of doing a less plot driven campaign, probably either a hex-crawl or a mega-dungeon.

My question is, how do you physically handle the map?


Obviously I make a master map and store it on a PC, but then do I slwoly fill in a copy for the players? Do I hang it on the wall of the gaming room? Do I roll it up and set it out on the table while they are exploring and allow them to move their minis? Do I just narrate where they are and leave map-making up to them?

This seems to be a very large and potentially expensive challenge that I have never had to deal with in the past having always run more linear story driven campaigns without large exploration elements.

Any advice?

Thank!
What program do you use for your master map?

Talakeal
2018-05-06, 03:30 PM
What program do you use for your master map?

I haven't decided yet.

I have campaign cartographer, but haven't really used it.

Right now I am just playing with mockups using MS Paint and the random generator at http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_world.php

The campaign is still in the very early stages of brainstorming at this point.

Corneel
2018-05-06, 03:48 PM
I haven't decided yet.

I have campaign cartographer, but haven't really used it.

Right now I am just playing with mockups using MS Paint and the random generator at http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_world.php

The campaign is still in the very early stages of brainstorming at this point.
Campaign Cartorgrapher has fairly steep learning curve, but it has the advantage of being based on professional CAD programs. Thus it allows for layers which are a very useful tool if you want to store all your information in one file but hide parts of it (it comes even with predetermined layers such as coastlines, rivers, natural features, GM only, political, etc.) and each layer can be hidden or shown as required.

Otherwise, look also into hexographer if you don't mind the hexmap look, it allows also for some hiding and showing of certain features (though it has less choice) and is much quicker to get the hang of. It has a free version with a lot of the functionality so you can try it out extensively to see if it's your cup of tea.

Inkscape is not specific for maps and thus lacks the icon libraries of the two previous ones, but it allows for layers. It's has a slightly lesser steep learning curve than CC, but is less adapted for fantasy maps. But it's free.

The general idea is that you have a graphic program that allows you to have all the info in one file, but that allows you to show different elements depending on what use you want to make of it or for who it's destined (players or GM).

JoeJ
2018-05-06, 03:56 PM
I give my players a sketch map of the world as they know it, leaving off anything I don't want them to have heard of. I draw their map freehand, which automatically produces a degree of imprecision and even inaccuracy compared with the DM's map on my computer. And because it was obviously sketched by hand, I've found that most players can just look at it and get a general idea of how much they should trust it.

Milo v3
2018-05-06, 07:39 PM
I use hexographer. Where every few days I'd go in randomly generate the terrain of the next three adjacent hexes.

Thrudd
2018-05-07, 12:39 AM
Leave map-making to them. The only maps I show them are props - if characters find or are given a map . One reason I don't show them where they are on a hex map is because they could get lost and end up going in a direction they didn't intend. There don't need to be any special expenses.

Talakeal
2018-05-07, 02:04 AM
Leave map-making to them. The only maps I show them are props - if characters find or are given a map . One reason I don't show them where they are on a hex map is because they could get lost and end up going in a direction they didn't intend. There don't need to be any special expenses.

Does it not get exhausting having to constantly describe the same settings over and over again?

For example, if I say "you are in the forest, more forest lies north, hills to the east, desert to the south, and a lake to the west" and then they say "we go south" to which you reply "you are in the desert, forest lies to the north..." like some old school MUD?

I cant really think of any other way to handle it without actually showing them an accurate map, and while it might be fun for the first time it sounds like a nightmare for common locations that they travel through regularly.

Beneath
2018-05-07, 04:03 AM
Does it not get exhausting having to constantly describe the same settings over and over again?

For example, if I say "you are in the forest, more forest lies north, hills to the east, desert to the south, and a lake to the west" and then they say "we go south" to which you reply "you are in the desert, forest lies to the north..." like some old school MUD?

I cant really think of any other way to handle it without actually showing them an accurate map, and while it might be fun for the first time it sounds like a nightmare for common locations that they travel through regularly.

As the locations get more familiar you can gloss over them more; if they have a completely known path they've taken three times before, you can just roll random encounters and check off supplies and be done (them: "we want to go to point C via points A, B, X" you: okay, *rolls* check off supplies and you're there). You'd be doing the same thing with a map anyway; either they're pointing to places on the map and "fast travel"ing there or they're going hex by hex and getting told what their surroundings are in each hex anyway.

Also, you can use place names for places that would be familiar to them; the first time, it's "a forest", but then they learn it's name and then it's "the forest of xyz". This would be especially helpful when they end up in a place they recognize after being lost.

guileus
2018-05-07, 04:24 AM
I used hexographer to make a copy of the master map, printed and plasticized it on two A3 sheets. Then printed a hex marked blank A3 for each one and pasted it on top. My players carefully cut out each hex they explore.
I like the plasticized bit because that way we can use a marker to write things or mark stuff (they are carving a kingdom, so it's important for when they build roads, farms etc).

Thrudd
2018-05-07, 11:13 AM
Does it not get exhausting having to constantly describe the same settings over and over again?

For example, if I say "you are in the forest, more forest lies north, hills to the east, desert to the south, and a lake to the west" and then they say "we go south" to which you reply "you are in the desert, forest lies to the north..." like some old school MUD?

I cant really think of any other way to handle it without actually showing them an accurate map, and while it might be fun for the first time it sounds like a nightmare for common locations that they travel through regularly.

Yes, you do need to describe surroundings, but not more than what is normal. I mean, in the dungeon you do the same thing, describing the hallways they pass through and where the doors are, etc. It's not much different.

If a location is common and they travel through it regularly, then they probably have a map of it by now, right? No, you wouldn't need to constantly describe every piece of their surroundings in familiar places.

They tell me what direction they are going, and I tell them what they see when they go there, in discreet chunks of time. For really commonly traveled and safe places, you can just gloss over it- "you travel along the north road for three days, going through the woods and over the brown hills."
Why would you need to describe where they just came from?

For actual exploring, it is broken down into eight hour chunks, four hour chunks, or even one hour chunks if it's a really tense area. Of course I'm rolling for wandering encounters for each of the chunks, and checking to see if they go off course.

"We go north, into the woods."
"During the first part of the day, you have an easy time moving through the forest, there are big trees with only a small amount of undergrowth. Are you planning on continuing in this direction?"
-"yes, we're going north until we see the mountain we were told about."
"Ok. The second part of the day the forest becomes more dense, and it slows you down a bit..."

You don't even need to pause if there's no significant change in scenery and no encounters. "You travel all day without incident through the forest."

Kaptin Keen
2018-05-07, 12:02 PM
My sandbox has three cities - divided by thousands of miles of wilderness. Madripore, Æhrengaard and Ul-Haq. I could tell a lot more about the geography, but I guess that's beside the point.

The world is one where nature fights back against civilization, and is on an even footing. Mostly by trickery and manipulation, but - again, beside the point.

So when Madripore gets expansionist ideas (again), their new settlements tend to suffer catastrophy - fires, plagues, attacks by gnolls, whatever gets the job done. And so on.

In this way, I have enormous amounts of land to work with. Oh and, obviously the wilderness has any number of smaller settlements if I need them, and nature is ok with that. Just when humanity gets uppity, nature puts them in their place.

LordEntrails
2018-05-07, 12:52 PM
IMO, in the setting, what do people know of the geography around them?

It's pretty common for people to make maps of the areas they live in. For travelling merchants to be able to sketch out in dirt the relative position of local cities/towns/villages, roads and river that connect them and any significant threat areas.

Are the players in a city in which you can by maps of the region or maybe even the world? I mean with divination magic it wouldn't be impossible for an accurate world map to be generated.

Sure, the goblin camp isn't going to be on a map, but in most settings I think of, people are generally aware of the layout of the cities and towns for a few hundred miles around them. Sure, they don't know what's in the forest or desert, but again, the built up places and the rivers and roads are all fairly well known. So, sure, put a player view of the region up on your wall. It will help immersion, raise enthusiasm, and keep the players from having to spend time on map making for things that add little to no value.

I would even give them a "hand-drawn" or incomplete version of the map that they can then go and add details to as they explore.

As for mapping programs. Campaign Cartographer is worth the learning curve. Do they tutorials. The curve doesn't have to be as hard if you spend the time to do the tutorials and to remember one thing, CC is a CAD program, it is not a graphics program like PSP etc. Don't try to use it like one.

You will find that in short order you will be making maps far better than half of those used in commercial products found on places like DriveThruRPG.

Talakeal
2018-05-09, 11:02 AM
Yes, you do need to describe surroundings, but not more than what is normal. I mean, in the dungeon you do the same thing, describing the hallways they pass through and where the doors are, etc. It's not much different."

In a dungeon I describe the room once and then draw it on the battlemat. The players rarely revisit rooms, and when they do I rarely need to describe them again or,remind the PCs of their position.

kyoryu
2018-05-09, 11:26 AM
Let the players draw their own maps.

Thrudd
2018-05-09, 01:52 PM
In a dungeon I describe the room once and then draw it on the battlemat. The players rarely revisit rooms, and when they do I rarely need to describe them again or,remind the PCs of their position.

Oh, I see. I would only bring out battlemat or terrain when there is actually a battle, and put it away until the next battle, representing on the table only what the characters can see at that moment- the single room or the section of hall and rooms. They never get a physical representation of the whole dungeon at once (or all the places they have explored), unless they have been given such a map in-character or draw it themselves. The same practice holds for the wilderness. In between battles the only thing on the table are the minis showing their traveling formation.

Since finding their way home again is an important part of the adventure, remembering where they've been and thinking of the most efficient path out of the dungeon is something I don't want to just give away for free- that would take away an element of skill and strategy and immersion.