How many wizards does it take for a player to say "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies"?

[rmnimoc]

There are a lot of over the top things you can do with tons of gold if you really put your mind to it. You could build a castle the size of a mountain, carry enough magical items to look like the lovechild of an armadillo and a porcupine, or (as one of my players thinks) spend it all hiring wizards to crash the moon into a ritual site being fought over by two teams 10 level 20 players to permanently end the reign of gods.

So a little background, in this world the gods all died after a Ragnarok type scenario got them all. There are two teams of level 20 players fighting for control of an artifact and ritual site that, together, will let them ascend to divinity. Neither party is particularly Good and no one in the world really wants either of them to succeed. To that end party number 3 (five players between level nine and eleven, the strongest surviving adventurers not in the two fighting parties) was gathered and given a vast sum of resources to hire an army to try to stop the ritual. They instead decided to spend all that gold to hire every wizard they can to drop the moon on the site.

As DM, I'm all for this. It's hilarious, it's memorable, and if they pull it off it'll be amazing. I told them I'd run some numbers and get back to them about it. So: What is the most efficient way for an army of level 8 wizards to pull this off and how many would it take?

[Uncle Pine]

In d&d 3.5e, damage from falling objects caps at 20d6 regardless of the object's weight. So unless someone, for example a Hulking Hurler, is throwing the moon as an improvised weapon (which have uncapped damage), dropping a moon bomb will only deal a pityful amount of damage that most 20th-level characers will simply shrug off. It would be much cheaper to strap together 50 acid flasks and throw them at one of these fiersome opponents for 50d6 acid damage and 500 gp. Buy more for better results.

As for actually bringing down the moon, assuming it weights about 1.61986852*10^23 lbs., you could do it with a venerable dragonwrought kobold Binder/Cancer Mage/Hulking Hurler using flaws and Heroics (SC) to get the feats below at a reasonable level, as well as Leech Ghost Skill (Ghostwalk) to have 20 Spot ranks for Distant Shot without being grossly overleveled. The main problem is that even with that setup the kobold would only be able to hit one of the 20th-level characters with the moon as it's not returning. Unless you picked up Bloodstorm Blade, but those are even more levels.
Dragonwrought
Great Fortitude
Poison Immunity
Toughness
Point Blank Shot
Power Attack
Weapon Focus
Far Shot
Distant Shot

Also the kobold should bind Malphas so he knows where he's throwing.

Between the two options, I strongly suggest bombarding the enemies with huge baskets of acid or alchemist fire. Alternatively, an "army" of 8th-level wizards (ideally, at least one for each 20th-level-character) can Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) at least 260 ft. above the site and drop several distinct 1 lb. moon-shaped pebbles on the enemies. Each one will deal 20d6
unavoidable damage to whomever is standing in the target square. I suggest equipping the wizards with spyglasses.

[Fouredged Sword]

8 scrolls of disjunction and a WHOLE LOT of magic missiles.

[Deophaun]

As DM, I'm all for this. It's hilarious, it's memorable, and if they pull it off it'll be amazing. I told them I'd run some numbers and get back to them about it. So: What is the most efficient way for an army of level 8 wizards to pull this off and how many would it take?
Isn't that for your players to come up with? Your job, since you find it amazing, is to be an enabler. Whatever they come up with, say "yes, but." The "but" is where you make them go on an adventure.

[JyP]

In d&d 3.5e, damage from falling objects caps at 20d6 regardless of the object's weight. So unless someone, for example a Hulking Hurler, is throwing the moon as an improvised weapon (which have uncapped damage), dropping a moon bomb will only deal a pityful amount of damage that most 20th-level characers will simply shrug off.
As we are talking about 8th-level wizards, they can normally cast Summon Monster IV. So let them research and create a specific version of Summon Monster IV which would summon 8 HD Hulking Hurlers, and coordinate the hurlers to all throw the same (big) rock.

a less tongue-in-cheek solution would be to find a rare breed of creature with powers over gravity and summon enough of them to have the moon crashing. Maybe there are moon inhabitants which are mystically tied to the moon, and if you summon enough of them on earth the moon would crash to join them. Means you would have to send the adventurers in space / on the moon to find the mythical creatures, capture one, so the wizards could study it to create the Summon spell :smallwink:

[Falontani]

according to Complete Warrior throwing the moon would deal 367,380,000,000,000,000,000d6 damage or an average of 1,285,830,000,000,000,000,000+str mod damage.
However the thrower would have a -126,139,200 to their spot to target the area, and the range increment would give them a -252,278,400 to hit (if they are even allowed to throw further than the standard 10 range increments)

[Fouredged Sword]

according to Complete Warrior throwing the moon would deal 367,380,000,000,000,000,000d6 damage or an average of 1,285,830,000,000,000,000,000+str mod damage.
However the thrower would have a -126,139,200 to their spot to target the area, and the range increment would give them a -252,278,400 to hit (if they are even allowed to throw further than the standard 10 range increments)

I think Cragtop archer can remove the range penalty. I think there is a spell that removes the maximum number of increments...

And then truestrike removed the 50% miss chance for shooting blind.

[heavyfuel]

I think Cragtop archer can remove the range penalty.

Cragtop Archer's Horizon Shot only affects projectile weapons, unfortunately.

[Bakkan]

Easy to fix: get a forking branch of the World Tree and the largest rubber band in the multiverse. Slingshot the moon into the ground!

[Goaty14]

Sacrifice all the puny wizards to summon an age-old outsider. Said outsider then wishes to bring the moon down onto the other PCs, though the wish screws up and now Atropus is coming down, thus starting a new adventure.

That's how I'd do it :smallcool:

[Uncle Pine]

Sacrifice all the puny wizards to summon an age-old outsider. Said outsider then wishes to bring the moon down onto the other PCs, though the wish screws up and now Atropus is coming down, thus starting a new adventure.

That's how I'd do it :smallcool:

Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu...

[Andor13]

What kind of moon are we talking about here? If it's Luna crashing into the Earth, well.... it's gonna be a problem.
If it's just a dinky little Phobos class moon, well, you don't want to be at ground 0, but most of the world will be fine. Once the nuclear winter settles down anyway.
If it's Middle-Earth and the moon is actually the Maia Tilion then you need to contact her by magic and convince her to do it.

[Zanos]

I like this solution. Can't conduct a ritual on the planet if there is no planet.

[heavyfuel]

Easy to fix: get a forking branch of the World Tree and the largest rubber band in the multiverse. Slingshot the moon into the ground!

If that's not creative thinking, I don't know what is hahaha



If it's Middle-Earth and the moon is actually the Maia Tilion then you need to contact her by magic and convince her to do it.

It's been some time, but I'm pretty sure Tilion is a dude

[Fouredged Sword]

Friggen first age elves and maia. Who can tell.

[Feantar]

What kind of moon are we talking about here? If it's Luna crashing into the Earth, well.... it's gonna be a problem.
If it's just a dinky little Phobos class moon, well, you don't want to be at ground 0, but most of the world will be fine. Once the nuclear winter settles down anyway.
If it's Middle-Earth and the moon is actually the Maia Tilion then you need to contact her by magic and convince her to do it.

Two words.

Command (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/command.htm) "Fall".

Although, if you're in Eä, the moon is actually the last blossom of Telperion. This is vital for out purposes, because it means it is a tree. Tilion just guides the moon. So, to do this, get a cleric with the plant domain, control a Treant, teleport it to the moon, have it Animate Trees (which functions as liveoak, but for any tree), cast fly on the moon, and get the Treant to tell it to fall.

PS: I just noticed that command was changed to be limited to only a few options...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Okay, you're going to need to get the wizards to find a particular mask salesman and a skullkid...

[Crake]

You'll need to convince this army of wizards that oblivion is better than simply having a pantheon of gods. Plus, these level 20 characters are probably able to teleport/plane shift somewhere safe while the moon collides with the planet. If the artifact is really an artifact, the two celestial bodies may not actually destroy it, so the level 20 characters would just go about fighting in space until one team attains godhood, at which point they rebuild the planet and you're back to square 1.

[BloodredAi]

Y'know, you could probably do a really epic 'the two celestial bodies are tearing eachother apart as they draw near' scenario...

...and use that to justify as many 20d6 rocks as you need to tpk


the guy above me is right, though. in a worst case scenario, you can use a few of the cheesier magic exploits (ie, chain-gating) to amass whatever can bring down the moon. your main focus, though, should be finding a way to seal off the escape avenues (planar shifting and whatnot) so that your targets actually die to the rocks, or find a way to ensure the artifact at the very least is destroyed. (actually, as long as the artifact is destroyed, you may be able to tie a new campaign into dealing with the aftermath, with the level 20s stuck in space)

[Celestia]

Do keep in mind that in real life, if you were to pull the moon down to collide it with the planet, it would, in fact, destroy the planet. And I'm not talking Mad Max apocalypse here, I'm talking total planetary destruction. Depending on the velocity of the impact, the planet could either melt into a ball of magma, blow up, or even vaporize. So, when you say "rocks fall; everyone dies," it will actually be everyone.

Except, of course, the level 20 dudes who just plane shift out of there beforehand.

[Zaq]

Whatever solution you come up with, if it takes longer than 72 hours in-game, you're doing it wrong.

[Venger]

according to Complete Warrior throwing the moon would deal 367,380,000,000,000,000,000d6 damage or an average of 1,285,830,000,000,000,000,000+str mod damage.
However the thrower would have a -126,139,200 to their spot to target the area, and the range increment would give them a -252,278,400 to hit (if they are even allowed to throw further than the standard 10 range increments)

I always advise equipping hulking hurlers with one or more osmium yoyos. Much less cumbersome than carrying a moon around, plus you can use it more than once

[Zombulian]

In d&d 3.5e, damage from falling objects caps at 20d6 regardless of the object's weight. So unless someone, for example a Hulking Hurler, is throwing the moon as an improvised weapon (which have uncapped damage), dropping a moon bomb will only deal a pityful amount of damage that most 20th-level characers will simply shrug off. It would be much cheaper to strap together 50 acid flasks and throw them at one of these fiersome opponents for 50d6 acid damage and 500 gp. Buy more for better results.

As for actually bringing down the moon, assuming it weights about 1.61986852*10^23 lbs., you could do it with a venerable dragonwrought kobold Binder/Cancer Mage/Hulking Hurler using flaws and Heroics (SC) to get the feats below at a reasonable level, as well as Leech Ghost Skill (Ghostwalk) to have 20 Spot ranks for Distant Shot without being grossly overleveled. The main problem is that even with that setup the kobold would only be able to hit one of the 20th-level characters with the moon as it's not returning. Unless you picked up Bloodstorm Blade, but those are even more levels.
Dragonwrought
Great Fortitude
Poison Immunity
Toughness
Point Blank Shot
Power Attack
Weapon Focus
Far Shot
Distant Shot

Also the kobold should bind Malphas so he knows where he's throwing.

Between the two options, I strongly suggest bombarding the enemies with huge baskets of acid or alchemist fire. Alternatively, an "army" of 8th-level wizards (ideally, at least one for each 20th-level-character) can Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm) at least 260 ft. above the site and drop several distinct 1 lb. moon-shaped pebbles on the enemies. Each one will deal 20d6
unavoidable damage to whomever is standing in the target square. I suggest equipping the wizards with spyglasses.

Isn't one of the optional tricks for a Hulking Hurler the ability to turn the throw into an AOE effect?

[Uncle Pine]

Isn't one of the optional tricks for a Hulking Hurler the ability to turn the throw into an AOE effect?

Close. What "Area Attack" actually does is making you target the square your target occupies (AC 10) instead of the actual target.

Area Attack: The character makes an attack roll against a square the target creature occupies (AC 10) rather than the creature itself. Any creature in the square must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + the hulking hurler's ranged attack bonus) or take full damage. This ability may only be used with a Huge or larger weapon.

[Venger]

Take brutal throw, and it's a great way to obviate a lot of common defensive measures (miss chance, concealment, etc)

[Heliomance]

I can't help but feel that all the people discussing the strict RAW of the matter, 20d6 max damage and only hitting one person and the like, are entirely missing the point of the question and not being helpful. OP is not asking "By strict TO levels of RAW adherence, how can I do this", OP is asking "This is a cool story idea, give me some justifications and figures that make rough sense".

[Acanous]

Well it only takes four pirates (https://youtu.be/OAcbSvmixPw), so I’d say one wizard really, two in a pinch

[Uncle Pine]

Well it only takes four pirates (https://youtu.be/OAcbSvmixPw), so I’d say one wizard really, two in a pinch

Since the moon is dealing up to 9999 damage when striking the enemies, I think we can safely say we finally found a reliable way to convert JRPGdamage to D&D damage: 9999 JRPGdamage = 120 D&D damage, for a ratio of about 83:1.