True Strike, a great non-combat cantrip

[sophontteks]

I really love contrips, espesially the non-combat ones like minor illusion, mage hand, dancing lights, and prestidigitation (my personal favourite). These cantrips require a certain creativity to make useful and they all aren't really things one would do in combat, yet they are rated pretty high for their social and roleplaying uses.

this got me thinking of one of the worst cantrips around. True Strike. Considered worthless because its combat potential is abysmal. But what if it isn't supposed to be a combat cantrip at all?

Say your roleplaying a skilled swordsman or archer and you wish to show off your talent in roleplay or social circumstances. Wouldn't true strike serve as the prestidigitation of bladedancers and marksmen?

Gaining advantage on a trick shot, or to hit a bullseye in a competition would actually be a really good use of a non-combat cantrip. Sword bards especially would be able to use this cantrip in their performances and many other characters could benefit from the ability to show off their prowess out of combat. I mean, whats worse then showing off your archery talent only to roll a 1?

True strike could be used to potentially give advantage on intimidation rolls and performance rolls in the right circumstances on top of just showing off how cool your character is.

Based on this, I am turning around in my low opinion of true strike. Its a great cantrip that is unfairly rated as a combat cantrip.

[Ganymede]

True Strike would be of great use in slam dunk contest as you'd have the time to cast it before every attempt. On the other hand, it would be no good during a three-point-shot contest as your action every turn would be used up by making baskets in rapid succession.

[Lord8Ball]

Well, you can always use it with a grappling hook or long distance assassination attempts from stealth as well as doing daily chores with a bit of finesse. Other than that there is not much going for this spell.

[sophontteks]

I'm rating this on the likes of prestidigitation, mage hand, and minor illusion. No combat potential. Its not a combat spell.

If one wishes to perform with a song or an insrument, failure may be embarrassing. If one wishes to perform with a bow or a sword, failure could get someone killed. Shooting an apple off of someone's head with a 5% failure rate is risky, but dropping that to 0.5% makes it much safer.

The spell only takes a somatic component to cast and its pointing at your target. Perfect for anyone who wants to pull off skill shots.

Shooting a lever to open a door.
Removing someone's garments with a swing of your sword.
Having someone fire an arrow at you and slicing it as it comes at you.
Jousting.
Shooting a bullseye.
Shooting clay pidgeons.
Intimidating someone with showing of sword/bow skill.
Impressing someone with a showing of sword/bow skill.

Its not all that bad if someone wants to be showy with their sword skills out of combat. Advantage is really nice.

[Talionis]

Well you don't have to be an assassin to know you are going into a round of combat. Many have decided that Blade Ward is situationally good for handling traps or casting entering an opening round of combat. True Strike can work much the same way. If your group is initiating combat then you can use True Strike.

Is that really worth it? I'm not sure. But I totally agree that for your Blade Bard that wants to be really good at a performance of combat skill, True Strike could be justified at the very least as on theme and you might be able to in good faith use it to aid intimidation in very limited situations.

[Specter]

Remember there's a 30-foot range to this; most hypotheticals used here would fail because of that.

[sophontteks]

Remember there's a 30-foot range to this; most hypotheticals used here would fail because of that.
Well, isn't that just silly.

[Citan]

Remember there's a 30-foot range to this; most hypotheticals used here would fail because of that.
Also, of course YMMV, but except maybe at level one, I wouldn't myself ask for an attack roll for a shoot on an unmoving target, except in very special circumstances.
You're supposed to be a seasoned practicioner of your weapon after all. And if there is really a challenge, I'd often consider a skill check more adequate...

So it's a nice niche you found for True Strike, but a narrow one. :)

[MeeposFire]

Well, isn't that just silly.

That has always been the challenge of true strike. You can find uses that avoid a few of the spells restrictions only to find out that you forgot one or two more restrictions that ruins the small niche you found. The spell either needs a complete rewrite or the removal of a few restrictions on the spell so that you can have an effective niche.

[sophontteks]

That has always been the challenge of true strike. You can find uses that avoid a few of the spells restrictions only to find out that you forgot one or two more restrictions that ruins the small niche you found. The spell either needs a complete rewrite or the removal of a few restrictions on the spell so that you can have an effective niche.
Well, I'd take it if I was a sword bard and constantly tick the DM off by saying it gives my performance advantage. Thats....something.

[Tanarii]

It has combat use. It's just incredibly niche.

If you're going to cast a high level attack roll spell next round, and don't want to waste the slot. You can cast it at 30ft the retreat with your move, then back away further and cast the spell next round. Unfortunately, the only attack roll spell worth using I know of is an upcast Chromatic Orb. (XtGE may have one I don't know of.)

If you can move up to 30ft of an enemy, but not adjacent & still attack, and have a strong melee attack but weak ranged attacks. Next round you move up and attack. Also if you don't want to break the line of combat this round, but you either expect the enemy to come to you or plan to move the line to the enemy next round.

Edit: also in a Mexican standoff within 30ft, since the spell only has a S component (which may or not may not be the pointing at the target itself), you can cast it repeatedly before combat. Of course, at the minimum the other guys will see you pointing at one of them. Or waving your hand around then pointing repeatedly.

[Pyramid Pug]

Somewhat similar, my guilty pleasure is Mending, I use the thing all the time. Say we're sneaking around in a old mansion or ruin and there's a closed door/gate, I cast mending on the hinges removing rust to make sure they don't make noise opening. Cantrips are a lot of fun to use.

[MeeposFire]

Somewhat similar, my guilty pleasure is Mending, I use the thing all the time. Say we're sneaking around in a old mansion or ruin and there's a closed door/gate, I cast mending on the hinges removing rust to make sure they don't make noise opening. Cantrips are a lot of fun to use.

Actually that is a cantrip I like. Granted it can be hard to fit in but if I have it I always can find things to do with it. Heck it is one of those cnatrips that if you actually had in real life would be a fantastic change to how your life could be.

[sophontteks]

Actually that is a cantrip I like. Granted it can be hard to fit in but if I have it I always can find things to do with it. Heck it is one of those cantrips that if you actually had in real life would be a fantastic change to how your life could be.
I could clean 10 square feet per minute with prestidigitation. I mean, dang. I would do an awful lot for that kind of power.

[MeeposFire]

I could clean 10 square feet per minute with prestidigitation. I mean, dang. I would do an awful lot for that kind of power.

Cleaning is nice but the best to me would be the ability to flavor anything at anytime. Terrible trail food is no longer a problem.

[sophontteks]

Cleaning is nice but the best to me would be the ability to flavor anything at anytime. Terrible trail food is no longer a problem.
Sadly, I am cursed with UNGODLY COOKING TALENT! I'm afraid flavouring would be of little use to me.

[G mayes]

Somewhat similar, my guilty pleasure is Mending, I use the thing all the time. Say we're sneaking around in a old mansion or ruin and there's a closed door/gate, I cast mending on the hinges removing rust to make sure they don't make noise opening. Cantrips are a lot of fun to use.

Why I never came up with that I'll never know, but I'll never forget that use of that cantrip again.

[MeeposFire]

Sadly, I am cursed with UNGODLY COOKING TALENT! I'm afraid flavouring would be of little use to me.

You may be graced with talent but you still need supplies how long do you think your cilantro will last and still taste good? Dried just does not taste the same.

[JoeJ]

Cleaning is nice but the best to me would be the ability to flavor anything at anytime. Terrible trail food is no longer a problem.

Clean clothes, warm socks, warm food, cold beer. How is this not the perfect cantrip?

[OvisCaedo]

Why I never came up with that I'll never know, but I'll never forget that use of that cantrip again.

Well, one reason you might not have come up with it is that mending's description suggests it is VERY limited in what it is allowed to fix, and de-rusting something seems pretty far off from the narrow field of "repairs a single break or tear in an object you touch".

Though personally, I think mending as written is pretty silly, so I wouldn't be surprised by any GM allowing it to expand to cover other kinds of minor repair work. If I actually GMed, I certainly would.

[Pyramid Pug]

From the PHB

"This spell repairs a single break or tear in an object
you touch, such as a broken chain link. two halves of
a broken key, a torn c1oak, or a leaking wineskin. As
long as the break or tear is no larger than 1 foot in
any dimension, you mend it. leaving no trace of the
former damage.
This spell can physically repair a magic item
or construct, but the spell can't restore magic to
such an object."

I've always interpreted it as restoring an item to it's original physical condition, I mean that's what repair is.

[hymer]

Well, you can always use it with a grappling hook or long distance assassination attempts from stealth as well as doing daily chores with a bit of finesse. Other than that there is not much going for this spell.
If you're already hidden, you already get advantage because of that. And then there's the casting of the spell which might make it harder to stay hidden. And finally (as has been mentioned above) the 30' range of the spell.


I've always interpreted it as restoring an item to it's original physical condition, I mean that's what repair is.
The first part of the description shows what this spell means by 'repair'.

[sophontteks]

Well, if its any consolation a somatic-only spell would not break being hidden.

[JeenLeen]

For those talking about using it for a cool move outside of combat... it seems legitimate, but from a fine-reading of the spell's description, you point at "a target in range" and are granted "a brief insight into the target's defenses."

I assume a target can be an inanimate object, so no problem there, but I wonder if one could argue that you can't really be granted insight into, say, the defenses of an apple on someone's head.

Though I guess it is reasonable, if one counts the various things of making it hard to hit an apple (its defenses, guy it's on moving, air flow) count as defenses.

Not a serious nitpick, but nitpicking spell nuances for the sake of fun


Edit: also in a Mexican standoff within 30ft, since the spell only has a S component (which may or not may not be the pointing at the target itself), you can cast it repeatedly before combat. Of course, at the minimum the other guys will see you pointing at one of them. Or waving your hand around then pointing repeatedly.

I like the image of two dudes pointing at each other over and over again.

[RSP]

Somewhat similar, my guilty pleasure is Mending, I use the thing all the time. Say we're sneaking around in a old mansion or ruin and there's a closed door/gate, I cast mending on the hinges removing rust to make sure they don't make noise opening. Cantrips are a lot of fun to use.

I like having it as an RP tool for fixing clothes after battle, coupled with cleaning via Prestidigitation. I mean how often are adventuring clothes, non-metal armors, capes, cloaks, etc, getting slashed, ripped or torn? It allows a Bard to always look their best.

I have to agree with some others that removing rust doesn't fit the spell, RAW, though. Not that allowing it would be game breaking.

[MaxWilson]

It has combat use. It's just incredibly niche.

If you're going to cast a high level attack roll spell next round, and don't want to waste the slot. You can cast it at 30ft the retreat with your move, then back away further and cast the spell next round. Unfortunately, the only attack roll spell worth using I know of is an upcast Chromatic Orb. (XtGE may have one I don't know of.)

Contagion and Plane Shift also rely on attack rolls. Though even in that case I would recommend against using True Strike--if you're willing to burn a Plane Shift on a bad guy, he's probably a big threat that you'd like to go away NOW instead of next round. Just have an ally (or even a familiar) Help you attack instead, which is both faster and doesn't eat your concentration.

(If you were willing to burn your concentration on the bad guy you'd probably be using Banishment anyway instead of True Strike, unless you're fighting the bad guy in its own native plane.)

So once again, there's a potentially good scenario for True Strike which turns out to be incredibly niche and hemmed in by caveats: use True Strike when you're fighting a big bad dude with weak Charisma saves on its native plane and have no allies to Help you and no better use for your concentration and are shorter on 7th level spell slots than on time.

[JoeJ]

So once again, there's a potentially good scenario for True Strike which turns out to be incredibly niche and hemmed in by caveats: use True Strike when you're fighting a big bad dude with weak Charisma saves on its native plane and have no allies to Help you and no better use for your concentration and are shorter on 7th level spell slots than on time.

Or more generalized, use True Strike when you can't attack this round but expect that you will be able to next round, or whenever you judge that increasing the chance of a hit with some limited resource (spell slots, arrow of slaying, etc.) outweighs a one round delay. If for some reason you've only got one chance to make your attack work, using True Strike first might be a good idea.

[BillyBobShorton]

With so many ways to get advantage and insane modifiers, this cantrip is extremely limited. And after the one or 2 times the PC uses it as the OP hypothesized, again, it loses its luster. Fixing True Strike with a casting time bonus action potentially (and probably) breaks this spell. Not sure there's an easy amswer. Good for ambushes or the couple rare tikes one would engage in contests, but outside of that... most of us go, "huh?"

[sophontteks]

All it has to do is serve good roleplay opportunity for it to be a good non-combat cantrip. Prestidigitation doesn't offer advantage too many times either and has no combat utility.

[G mayes]

All it has to do is serve good roleplay opportunity for it to be a good non-combat cantrip. Prestidigitation doesn't offer advantage too many times either and has no combat utility.

Can I use prestidigitation to get someone free from a tangle foot bag?

[sophontteks]

Can I use prestidigitation to get someone free from a tangle foot bag?
Can you?
I don't think so. I'd be interested if you know a way.

[hymer]

Can you?
I don't think so. I'd be interested if you know a way.

You'd have to come up with the stats and rules for the tanglefoot bag first. I'm pretty sure there isn't an official 5e version yet.

[Citan]

With so many ways to get advantage and insane modifiers, this cantrip is extremely limited. And after the one or 2 times the PC uses it as the OP hypothesized, again, it loses its luster. Fixing True Strike with a casting time bonus action potentially (and probably) breaks this spell. Not sure there's an easy amswer. Good for ambushes or the couple rare tikes one would engage in contests, but outside of that... most of us go, "huh?"
Nah, it wouldn't at all. Between the fact that it takes up concentration and only gives advantage on one next attack, it's really not a big deal.
For martials, it's exactly the same as attacking twice with a lesser damage expectancy: Fighters/Rogues/Barb may achieve the same result with a Shove which would take up one of their two+ attacks (yeah guys, dual-wielding / shield mastering people here o/) so it's mostly the same consumption of resources as far as your turn is concerned at least.
For casters, the fact that is uses concentration is greatest dealbreaker of all. Especially when having someone else Help you or keep a Faerie Fire (for ranged attacks) or shoving/flanking target (for melee) would achieve the same result.

True Strike as a bonus action without concentration? Would make it very powerful, but only for casters that happen to specialize in one of the few single-target attack spells. Really not a big deal imo.
Same but "affects all remaining attacks in the same turn"? There it would end as potentially too powerful, but even then I'm not really sure... ^^

[BillyBobShorton]

All it has to do is serve good roleplay opportunity for it to be a good non-combat cantrip. Prestidigitation doesn't offer advantage too many times either and has no combat utility.
None eh? Sorry to hear that neither you nor anyone at your table has thought of ways yet.

[Pyramid Pug]

YOU FOLKS ARE MEAN, DON'T YOU TAKE MY RUST B-GONE CANTRIP AWAY FROM ME!! º\ ( `3´) /º

Seriously tho (somewhat), the whole thing started when I started doing maintenance on the party gear, and with such a straightforward name I never looked much at Mending's text. One session we were trying to sneak someplace and our DM said the door was old and hadn't been maintained so it would probably make quite the noise opening up. I remembered the cantrip, used it and our DM liked it so we rolled with it. It has become sort of a meme joke in our sessions me interposing the rogue when he's trying to open something to cast mending on it.

None of us actually payed much attention to the cantrip text since it felt like it was in the spirit of the thing.

A more egregious example was us taking a whole year to notice that Observant gives +5 to PASSIVE perception and not regular perception. When I bring that up to my DM he shoves his face in the PHB and after a moment of silence goes.. "Well suddenly your character feels his age catching up and although his experience serves him well, he could do with a new set of glasses." :smallbiggrin:

[sophontteks]

None eh? Sorry to hear that neither you nor anyone at your table has thought of ways yet.
I've used prestidigitation to set up surprise rounds and find hidden targets. Any use in combat directly sounds pretty gamey, requiring a pretty lenient DM, and there is almost always something that can do it better.

But thanks for sharing?