Barbarian Gone Rogue: Skills and Subclasses

[DragonBaneDM]

Hey Playground!

So I'm fast approaching my breakpoint in my Warforged Bearbarian's leveling (Barbarian 5) where I'm going to go Rogue, presumedly for the rest of the campaign.

What I'm trying to pin down in this thread is what skills would be the best for me to pick up, take Expertise in, and what subclass to pick up for level 3 on.

Here's a bit of background on my party and campaign: (On mobile now, gonna edit this post *so* much later)
- Human Redemption Paladin
- Dragonborn Fey Tomelock
- Gnome Glamour Bard
- Half Orc War Cleric

So yeah. I dumped Cha and I'm not looking back. We've got enough faces and I'm enjoying the Draxx-esque awkward character I put on.

So for Rogue multiclass skills I want to go Stealth and Thieves Tools. We really don't use those skills much, but I don't have em yet and I want to be a Rogue, dangit.

Expertise is trickier! (Note to spoiler this)

- Athletics: Do I want to be a really good grappler? It helped us out in one "front line stay alive while casters DPS" type challenge but hasn't come up much. I guess it's good for a team-player route when I'm just not able to deal damage?
- Stealth: I'm Str based, so I'll never be an all star. But it could be a life saver, yeah?
- Perception: It's the most important skill in the game...
- Investigation: ...Except if I'm trying to find a trap. (Got blasted by a lightning door last session. Unfun.)
- Anything I'm not considering?

Perhaps most aggravating of all is which subclass I should go for. These are ranked from favorite to least favorite. (Note to spoil)
- Swashbuckler: This was my front runner until like a week ago. I have Reckless Attack. Will that option to get more sneak attacks really be worth the -1 to initiative? I'll never use the higher features.
- Scout: I'm a Scout Warforged. I'm our Nature-boy and the closest thing we have to a Ranger/Druid. Is the flavor win good enough to back up a package of benefits mostly for Ranged rogues?
- Thief: I've always been meh on Thief. Unless I get my hands on a good magic item, Fast Hands seems not great. Other features don't really feel grand, either.
- Assassin: This has never felt like Relic's deal. They kill, but they're not a killer. Plus I'm uncomfortable having solo time away from the party. I know it'll come up with me scouting ahead, but Assassin seems to require that.
- Arcane Trickster: I rage often. This seems like a no no.
- Inquisitive: Fits urban intrigue, which is sorta our deal, but just feels so weak. I want my bonus action for my off hand attack to pile on my rage damage, right?


What's my best option here? What option sticks out as fun? What assumptions am I making or not making that seem important to this decision?

You guys rule, thanks in advance!

DBDM

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Hey Playground!

So I'm fast approaching my breakpoint in my Warforged Bearbarian's leveling (5th) where I'm going to go Rogue, presumedly for the rest of the campaign.

Will you be taking that 5th level in Barb or Rogue? It's a bit confusing to me at least.


So for Rogue multiclass skills I want to go Stealth and Thieves Tools. We really don't use those skills much, but I don't have em yet and I want to be a Rogue, dangit.

Expertise is trickier!

- Athletics: Do I want to be a really good grappler? It helped us out in one "front line stay alive while casters DPS" type challenge but hasn't come up much. I guess it's good for a team-player route when I'm just not able to deal damage?
- Stealth: I'm Str based, so I'll never be an all star. But it could be a life saver, yeah?

I would highly recommend Athletics. There's a Goliath strength-based rogue in my party and he has +11 to athletics. When he makes an athletics check, which he does often, he almost always crushes it. Way more useful than just grappling, but you've gotta be creative with it. I can give you ideas if you need them.

Stealth is so good, even if you're strength based. Remember you're doubling proficiency, not Dex, so you'll get 12+Dex just from that when your prof. goes up to +6.

I consider Athletics/Acrobatics and Stealth required expertise for any rogue I've ever made.


Perhaps most aggravating of all is which subclass I should go for. These are ranked from favorite to least favorite. (Note to spoil)
- Swashbuckler: This was my front runner until like a week ago. I have Reckless Attack. Will that option to get more sneak attacks really be worth the -1 to initiative? I'll never use the higher features.
- Scout: I'm a Scout Warforged. I'm our Nature-boy and the closest thing we have to a Ranger/Druid. Is the flavor win good enough to back up a package of benefits mostly for Ranged rogues?

Swashbuckler is by far my favorite archetype for Rogues. It's incidentally the class that I took with The Drow Pirate Roberts (my first real character for which I am named). Personal bias aside, it's not only one of the strongest, it also pairs incredibly well with Barbarian. Using Rakish Audacity alone makes this worth it. You always proc sneak attack (once/turn) in melee and if you ever get that Charisma up with a feat then cool. Fancy footwork was made for dual wielders! Such free movement when you'll already be on the front lines. Don't sleep on Panache. If they happen to fail, you've increased the value of this greatly because of your damage resistance in Rage. Elegant Maneuver will be great paired with your Athletics Expertise both in and out of combat (you get this out of combat as well btw).

Ultimately Scout is good too. I clearly suggest Swashbuckler, and I think you'll have the most fun with it. But Scout shouldn't leave you feeling under powered by any means.

[DragonBaneDM]

Barbarian! I'll clarify in the OP. Thanks!

[GlenSmash!]

Since barbarian already has a reliably source of advantage getting sneak attacks will never be an issue.

Scout will net you some more double proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills, that while not typically considered top tier skills would be very thematic for a Barbarian. The extra mobility is not bad either.

Edit: Also moving as a reaction and not provoking AoO is a nice way to counter your enemies having advantage against you from Reckless Attack especially since you can now use Cunning action to Dash even farther.

Over all I think Scout compliments Barbarian better than any other Rogue subclass.

[MeeposFire]

Well if you want to play a Conan type thief actually may be even better thematically. I would not overlook the thief it is actually better and more fun that you might think though it gets a lot of its fun by using mundane items during combat in various ways. Personally I am not a fan of its stealth buff but that is because I have never been a big user of stealth even with my rogues/thieves in any edition. I would do it when needed but it was never a focus for me.

By the way two weapon fighting certainly has its perks such as getting rage bonus damage on the off hand attack but depending on what class you take first and how many of each class you take sword and shield may also be very viable. For instance if you take a lot of rogue levels then even more of your damage comes from just extra attack and sneak attack and since sneak attack only needs to get a hit once a turn two weapon fighting does not improve your odds as much as it does with a standard rogue since you do have extra attack and reckless attack giving you lots of chances to get a hit. Still two weapon fighting does maximize the damage so it is certainly a way to go but it does by RAW close off many fun and interesting tactics that you can do as a rogue since many of them use bonus actions.