Say no to the DM

[Raymith]

I've been casually working with an idea of making a multiclass based on saying "no" OR "yes" to the DM as many times as possible, and came up with (so far) a lvl 5 build. This us a half orc divination wizard 2 / lore bard 3 for the ability to not go unconscious the first time I'm supposed to, the ability to force a roll to be something else entirely, and to give minus/plusses to attacks as I see fit.

That being said, does anyone have a build that definitively says "no" to the dm as many times as physically possible at level 20, preferably with a level breakdown if you can. thanks in advance.

[sithlordnergal]

I've been casually working with an idea of making a multiclass based on saying "no" OR "yes" to the DM as many times as possible, and came up with (so far) a lvl 5 build. This us a half orc divination wizard 2 / lore bard 3 for the ability to not go unconscious the first time I'm supposed to, the ability to force a roll to be something else entirely, and to give minus/plusses to attacks as I see fit.

That being said, does anyone have a build that definitively says "no" to the dm as many times as physically possible at level 20, preferably with a level breakdown if you can. thanks in advance.

Hmmm, you'll want to take the Lucky Feat no matter what. That way you can force re-rolls on your terms. Also, grab Bane as a Lore Bard spell. It may only be a -1d4 on most rolls, but that -1d4 can turn a success into a failure. Also, grab a Cloak of Displacement or Mirror Image. That way even if you run out of Dice roll manipulation, you can still have that as a backup. Other then that, I can't really think of anything.

Maybe start as a Yuan-Ti? Advantage on saving throws vs. Magical Effects and immunity to poison are strong. Or go the Halflin route and take both Bountiful Luck and Second Chance

[Cespenar]

The most critical "no" would probably be Counterspell, so build a strong caster, I guess.

[Dualswinger]

If you want to say to antagonists “no” then Wizard is the way to go. Wall off all your foes (don’t forget the potential illusions hold) to shut them down.

Otherwise, halfling with their natural luck, the lucky feat and 2 levels of diviner gives you 5 rerolls Per long rest, 2 you know the result of in advance, with the option to reroll 1s

[hymer]

Otherwise, halfling with their natural luck, the lucky feat and 2 levels of diviner gives you 5 rerolls Per long rest, 2 you know the result of in advance, with the option to reroll 1s

This sounds good. Maybe add some lore bard for Cutting Words.

[smcmike]

Six levels of Wild Magic Sorcerer gives you bend luck, which is a classic “after the roll, but before the outcome” ability. The Lucky feat works like this as well, and is therefore perfect. The Shield spell actually works after the result, and is even better.


I personally prefer the half-orc’s “no, you’re wrong, I’m still up” ability to halfling’s rerolling 1s, but both fit.

[KillingTime]

Halfling Lore Bard

Lvl1 - Halfling Luck
& Judicious casting of Bane / Viscious Mockery

Lvl3 - Cutting Words

Lvl4 - Lucky Feat (or Cha ASI)

Lvl6 - Magical Secrets / Counterspell

Lvl7/8 - Divination Wizard Dip

Lvl9-20 - Max out those cutting words dice

You can play around with when you take the Wizard dip to ensure an ASI for Cha at Lvl8.
3rd ASI to max out Cha will unfortunately still only kick in at lvl14, but it's that or drop Lucky at lvl4.

[Ivor_The_Mad]

I've been casually working with an idea of making a multiclass based on saying "no" OR "yes" to the DM as many times as possible, and came up with (so far) a lvl 5 build. This us a half orc divination wizard 2 / lore bard 3 for the ability to not go unconscious the first time I'm supposed to, the ability to force a roll to be something else entirely, and to give minus/plusses to attacks as I see fit.

That being said, does anyone have a build that definitively says "no" to the dm as many times as physically possible at level 20, preferably with a level breakdown if you can. thanks in advance.

we have a 12th level rogue with Prestidigitation. He has something like +12 to most checks he's proficient in. Stealth, persuasion, deception. We were traveling through a city when we were captured by some warriors because we were not part of the "Cult" and we were brought before their master.
DM the master draws his sword and yells "prove you are one of us."
Rogue: I uhh forgot my ID it at home.
Thug: No here it is you are lying it says you are Zhentarim
Rogue to dm: No... it says ______(name of cult)
DM: I hate that spell
DM: he doesn't believe you roll persuasion.
*Roll* nat 1
DM: HAHA
Rogue: no its a 10+ 12 thats a 22
DM: No it clearly says 1
Rogue: Reliable Talent
DM: $^%!*#& Rogues
Id say that a magic innate swashbuckler rogue with Prestidigitation is the way to go

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

The most critical "no" would probably be Counterspell, so build a strong caster, I guess.

And the best way to do this is probably through bard, since Jack of All Trades applies. Bard primary wizard secondary is better I think than the alternative, but in this exact situation it might be better to do wizard primary to get 3 portent rolls instead of two.

[Beelzebubba]

For a caster, grab Hex so you can give disadvantage to an enemy caster trying to counterspell you

[apepi]

I have played a build like this, I call it the Lucky build.

Halfling Bard/Wizard. Get the Lucky feat and then get the Halfling Lucky feat to give your teammates rerolls on 1's. Go 4 or 5 Bard, 2 Wizard then when you hit level 12(10 Bard, 2 Wizard) go Wild Sorcerer. Wild Sorcerer is surprisingly good for this build. Advantage on any attack, saving throw or ability check(even initiative or death saving throw!) and when you level 16 you get Bend Luck, which is similar to Cutting Words but you can use it against any enemies saving throw.

In the start of combat you first use Bane or Synaptic Static(at 5th level), hell you could even Quickened Spell them together. Bane makes it harder for them to pass the Synaptic Static roll, and if they fail both then they are rolling a d6+d4 on their attack rolls. Then you can Viscous Mockery them and give them disadvantage. If they try to cast a spell you can Counterspell and then give yourself advantage if you have to roll to stop the spell, and then lets not forget we have Jack of Trades to help us further. And we can always convert spells to Sorcery Points if we want more Bend Luck(unlike having only 5 Cutting Words).

This build is basically the a blue deck in mtg. You have so much action economy and the ability to say no.