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Ivius
2007-09-04, 07:28 PM
Essentially lets you shoot rays and lines out of your eyes. I found this gem in LoM. Is it the coolest thing ever?

clockwork warrior
2007-09-04, 07:30 PM
fluff wise, that sounds awesome, but does it serve an actual purpose?

Jack_Simth
2007-09-04, 07:32 PM
fluff wise, that sounds awesome, but does it serve an actual purpose?

Yeah - you can shoot two such (one from each eye) with the same full-round action. Basically it's another form of Quicken (that stacks with Quicken) with some limits.

A Wiz-11 could, say, have two Ocular Scorching Rays cast (which are stored in his eyes), and a Quickened Scorching Ray prepared. With a full-round action and a Swift action, he can zap someone with all three spells - each of which gets three rays, each of which does 4d6 damage. Assuming everything hits (you're in the territory where a 1, 2, or 3 is fairly likely, so that's not a good assumption), you're looking at 36d6 damage (average 126, using two 4th and one 6th level spell slot) in one round, at 11th level, with no save. What's the Fighter's HP at that point?

Ivius
2007-09-04, 07:42 PM
A Wiz-11 could, say, have two Ocular Scorching Rays cast (which are stored in his eyes), and a Quickened Scorching Ray prepared. With a full-round action and a Swift action, he can zap someone with all three spells - each of which gets three rays, each of which does 4d6 damage. Assuming everything hits (you're in the territory where a 1, 2, or 3 is fairly likely, so that's not a good assumption), you're looking at 36d6 damage (average 126, using two 4th and one 6th level spell slot) in one round, at 11th level, with no save. What's the Fighter's HP at that point?

Who cares? You're shooting lasers out of your eyes.

Balkash
2007-09-04, 07:46 PM
AGREED! friggin' lasers out of his eyes man! thats like... shooting magic missles out of his finger tips!... oh wait... he can already do that...

Reel On, Love
2007-09-04, 07:46 PM
Who cares? You're shooting lasers out of your eyes.

Yeah, but you can do that at will by taking the Storm Bolt reserve feat and describing them as coming out of your eyes.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-09-04, 08:07 PM
LoM is a book of gems. My gods I love it so...

Jack_Simth
2007-09-04, 08:09 PM
Who cares? You're shooting lasers out of your eyes.
The caring comes from the whole "game balance" thing. It's effectively Quicken Spell on fairly useful spells before you can actually use Quicken Spell on fairly useful spells.

slexlollar89
2007-09-04, 10:11 PM
What is LoM? Where can I obtain such a treasure, and sriously, the friggan EYES?! THAT IS COOL!

Hydra
2007-09-04, 10:14 PM
Lords of Madness, the splat book for aberrations.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-04, 11:27 PM
It's a scary ability. It basically makes wizards even scarier.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-05, 02:29 AM
Essentially lets you shoot rays and lines out of your eyes. I found this gem in LoM. Is it the coolest thing ever?

I'd disallow it on grounds of flavor. What is this, Dragonball Z?

The_Snark
2007-09-05, 02:40 AM
I'd disallow it on grounds of flavor. What is this, Dragonball Z?

I find this rather ironic, given your avatar...

... and in fact, that's what the flavor of the spell is. It involves the study of beholders and their eye rays, and requires Knowledge (dungeoneering).

Person_Man
2007-09-05, 09:29 AM
Ocular spell let's you store two spells in your eyes, which can then be released together as a full round action at any time up to 8 hours later. And it applies +2 LA to each spell.

This is less powerful then Split Ray from Complete Arcane, which creates one additional ray from the same spell for +2 LA. Essentially the same effect, but you only have to use up one spell, and you can apply it on the fly, rather then having to prepare it beforehand.

If you want lasers from your eyes, I would just use Split ray, and describe your ray spells as emanating from your eyes.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-05, 09:35 AM
I find this rather ironic, given your avatar...

My avatar is a dead beholder :smallwink:

Ikkitosen
2007-09-05, 10:07 AM
Ocular spell let's you store two spells in your eyes, which can then be released together as a full round action at any time up to 8 hours later. And it applies +2 LA to each spell.

This is less powerful then Split Ray from Complete Arcane, which creates one additional ray from the same spell for +2 LA. Essentially the same effect, but you only have to use up one spell, and you can apply it on the fly, rather then having to prepare it beforehand.

If you want lasers from your eyes, I would just use Split ray, and describe your ray spells as emanating from your eyes.

Ah but ocular spell isn't limited to ray spells, it just turns them into rays, so you can use it for targeted spells like Hold Person and such.

TSGames
2007-09-05, 10:52 AM
Ah but ocular spell isn't limited to ray spells, it just turns them into rays, so you can use it for targeted spells like Hold Person and such.

Also, you can attack different targets with each ray(cross eyed lasers?).

ImperiousLeader
2007-09-05, 10:56 AM
One nasty thing about Ocular spell, is that it gives spells a fixed range. Which, ironically, makes it now Persistable.

Person_Man
2007-09-05, 11:57 AM
Ah but ocular spell isn't limited to ray spells, it just turns them into rays, so you can use it for targeted spells like Hold Person and such.

That's true. But Hold Person doesn't require an attack roll. Ray spells do. So while you can convert Hold Person or similar spells into rays using Ocular Spell, you're actually making it less likely that the spell will work - because now you have to roll to hit, and then the target gets a Save as normal.

However, you've successfully changed my mind about Ocular spell. Re-reading the feat, I noticed that "Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells." Most touch spells do not have a "Personal" as their range. So you can use Ocular spell to fire off twin touch spells at a range.

There has to be a lot of different applications for this. But the one that immediately comes to mind is my Ray Cleric build, that previously relied on Reach Spell and Twin Ray. With Ocular spell, it can more efficiently shoot two rays of Cure Serious Wounds from across the battlefield. Or fire two Poison spells and deal 2d10 Con damage. Or you can shoot off Cure Serious Wounds and Sanctuary at the same time. Ah, the possibilities...

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Jack_Simth
2007-09-05, 04:09 PM
That's true. But Hold Person doesn't require an attack roll. Ray spells do. So while you can convert Hold Person or similar spells into rays using Ocular Spell, you're actually making it less likely that the spell will work - because now you have to roll to hit, and then the target gets a Save as normal.

However, you've successfully changed my mind about Ocular spell. Re-reading the feat, I noticed that "Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells." Most touch spells do not have a "Personal" as their range. So you can use Ocular spell to fire off twin touch spells at a range.

There has to be a lot of different applications for this. But the one that immediately comes to mind is my Ray Cleric build, that previously relied on Reach Spell and Twin Ray. With Ocular spell, it can more efficiently shoot two rays of Cure Serious Wounds from across the battlefield. Or fire two Poison spells and deal 2d10 Con damage. Or you can shoot off Cure Serious Wounds and Sanctuary at the same time. Ah, the possibilities...

Thanks for pointing this out to me.Don't forget the Ocular Twin Ray. For three 8th level spell slots, a Wiz-16 could arrange to throw... one Quickened Enervation, and two Twin Ray Ocular Enervations, for.... what, 5d4 negative levels on five Touch Attacks? Or drop the Quickened Enervation in favor of a Quickened Phantasmal Killer. Apply a -4d4 to your opponent's saves, then apply a Save or Save or Die spell. Should do the job, most times.

Ikkitosen
2007-09-05, 04:52 PM
Thanks for pointing this out to me.

Considering the number of feat trees, build ideas and combos of yours I've nicked I'd say you're still well in credit :smallcool:

Ivius
2007-09-05, 04:54 PM
Don't forget the Ocular Twin Ray. For three 8th level spell slots, a Wiz-16 could arrange to throw... one Quickened Enervation, and two Twin Ray Ocular Enervations, for.... what, 5d4 negative levels on five Touch Attacks? Or drop the Quickened Enervation in favor of a Quickened Phantasmal Killer. Apply a -4d4 to your opponent's saves, then apply a Save or Save or Die spell. Should do the job, most times.

What have I done :smalleek:?

Ceres
2007-09-05, 04:58 PM
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/9/d/89db0fa906ed128871b7e2f3d9789230.jpg

puppyavenger
2007-09-05, 08:09 PM
anyone else gona have awkened hark wizzards in a pit that the BEEG gets the heros slowly lowered into?

Jack_Simth
2007-09-05, 08:43 PM
What have I done :smalleek:?

Very little.

Most these things I mention in that fashion? I'm trying to point out that the particular key to it is kinda broken. Ocular Spell is a version of quicken before you can actually use Quicken, and at half the cost, too; above and beyond that, it stacks with Quicken. Actions are one of the more useful commodities in D&D combat... and the feat effectively gives you an extra action whenever you need it.

Besides, combine with a Greater Metamagic Rod of Maximize Spell (applied at casting, which is 0-8 hours ago, as the ocular spells are stored when cast and released on use) and that becomes 4*4 negative levels followed up by a Quickened Save or Save or Die. -16 to saves, pumped up save DC, and... umm... wait, was there a BBEG there? Oops.

That, or it's "Oh... Death Ward. Drat. Well, umm... sorry, I just expended my entire allotment of top-tier spells completely uselessly. My bad." (or undead, or construct, or Spell Resistance, or....).

JackMage666
2007-09-06, 12:18 AM
Game balance is only a problem if your players are out to break it.

If they just want cool eye lasers, how could this be wrong?

Awetugiw
2007-09-06, 06:16 AM
My favorite way to do that is Stormrage (Spell Compendium, Complete Divine IIRC). Okay, it's a high level spell, but now you can fly, get some small bonuses, and you can fire lightning bolts from your eyes.

It's not exactly firing lasers... But I think it should usually be close enough. And it isn't really overpowered.

Jack_Simth
2007-09-06, 06:29 AM
Game balance is only a problem if your players are out to break it.

If they just want cool eye lasers, how could this be wrong?
Same can be said for Divine Metamagic(Persistent Spell).

If the party Cleric's only use for it is to Persist a Mass Lesser Vigor on the entire party (granting everyone fast healing 1, covering the out-of-combat healing role all day) then it's not broken (it's a different way of playing a healer).

If the Cleric grabs a bunch of Nightsticks and uses it for Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might, there's a problem.

Of course, a Cleric is more likely to see Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might (they're core spells) than Mass Lesser Vigor.

Even if the party Wizard only uses Ocular Spell for the flavor, he's still getting a significantly cheaper Quicken Spell out of it; this will mean he's getting more, stronger, spells out every round than he probably ought to be. Combo's above are designed to exaggerate the issue for emphasis by way of particularly useful versions.