How good is Scout Rogue?

[Ding]

I'm going to be playing in a campaign with some friends of mine, and I kind of want to play a real outdoorsman/scout/hunter type of character: proficient in Survival, Nature, Perception, probably athletics and/or acrobatics, that sort of thing. I was thinking Wood Elf as the race, as it's got decent stat bonuses, racial features, and thematically fits. My first instinct was to go with the Scout subclass for Rogue - obviously it's got the name, and it gives proficiencies in Nature and Survival, but otherwise I wasn't impressed by any of its features (except for level 17 and kind of 13, but that's a ways off). I'm fine with the character not being optimized for combat, and I know Rogues in general get all sorts of cool features, but I just wanted to see if anybody had played one of these before and how it went. Basically, would I be shooting myself in the foot by picking Scout?

I'm also open to other class/subclass suggestions for the type of character I described, if anybody has good ideas. Ranger and Druid came to mind, but I'm not very familiar with those classes, and I don't think I want to go full Druid. I've been playing too many full casters.

Our party is starting at level 3, and besides myself will consist of a Hexblade Warlock and a Sorcerer, Wizard, and Barbarian of unknown subclasses.

[CTurbo]

The Scout is a pretty solid Rogue. The Skirmisher ability is a lot of fun for sure. The 17th level Sudden Strike is amazing being able to sneak attack a second time, but most campaign never get that high.

I think I prefer Swashbuckler Rogue these days. Rogue mesh really well with a few levels of Ranger too. A few Ranger levels get you all kinds of good stuff while staying nature themed.

[ImproperJustice]

I think in general that the effectiveness of your Scout will tie in to your team mates willingness to get in there and draw some aggro.

In that case, enjoy being a highly mobile sniping playform.

Rogues are fun, and the Wood Elf Thief in our group always feels like there is something they can be doing.

I think a Scout with Mobile or Athlete (for the clomb speed) could really maximize a hit and run strategy.

[mephnick]

My main problem with the Scout is that their retreat feature uses a reaction. If a actually monster ends it's turn adjacent to you...it probably attacked you and you probably already used Uncanny Dodge. But I supposed if you don't get hit it's a good option.

[sophontteks]

Just from what I'm reading (no experience with the archtype) the skirmisher ability looks really good for a scout. One day, you are going to scout, and you are going to get caught. Getting hit by one creature is bad, but getting surrounded by multiple creatures is death. Getting an additional 15 feet of movement will probably put you out of range of additional melee creatures.

I mean, anything that keeps a rogue from being surrounded is pretty good in many circumstances and it can be used to, you know, skirmish. Keeping most the enemies at a distance while you pepper them with sneak attacks.

[djreynolds]

At 3rd level you get nature and survival, and then expertise in them. By 6th level you have 6 skills with expertise.

I think its a strong archetype and the rogue class itself is great

I feel the thief's "use magic device" is by far the best of the 13th level archetype abilities.

I also really like the thief's "supreme sneak" more than superior mobility, panache is okay

swashbuckler is nice for melee, but elegant maneuver is only good for chandelier swinging

IMO it really depends how many levels of rogue are you looking to get and IMO, and it is very tough to get out of rogue because every level is something new and you get a bump with sneak attack every other level

3- archetype.... I might get out of scout right here you have 4 skills with expertise and skirmisher
4- feat
5- uncanny dodge
6- expertise
7- evasion
8- feat
9- archetype, superior mobility could be sweet with a tabaxi or lizardman or triton or with mariner fighting style
10- feat
11- reliable talent
12- feat
13- archetype
14- blindsense
15- slippery mind
16- feat
17- sudden strike.... you can, AFB, basically sneak attack to separate dudes every turn, obviously, would you wait till here
18- Elusive
19- feat
20- stroke of luck

What are you looking to multiclass with? Maybe grab a level of fighter for mariner style to capitalize on superior mobility, but then you might get stuck in fighter

[Morty]

Having played it to level 6, it's decently effective but really boring like rogue is in general. The extra proficiencies are handy for out of combat versatility and the retreat feature lets you get out of danger quickly. It does use a reaction, though, which is a rogue has other uses for. I never did get to use Uncanny Dodge before I quit the campaign, so I don't know how much of a conflict it is.

[the secret fire]

It's not a great Rogue subclass, imo. Sounds like you ought to start out as a Ranger, and multiclass to Rogue after you reach Ranger 5.

[Spacehamster]

One of the better rogue sub classes in my opinion. :)

[Spacehamster]

Would like to try out a Tabaxi fighter 2, scout 10 and Kensai 8, grab mobile and use that scout mobility to never be in range for a melee attacker, as long as there is somewhere to retreat to ofc

[BillyBobShorton]

A friend of mine and I are playtesting all kinds of classes from Xanathar's and I did try the Scout. Not that great, IMO. Thought the lvl 3 free escape move would be ridiculous but when you have to wait for the enemy to finish its entire move (including attack), it basically moves you a few squares after probably taking damage. If it was tweaked to be "if enemy ends or starts its movement adjacent to you" as a reaction to get outta dodge it would probably be a fantastic feature, but considering all rogues get cunning action disengage, it's kind of a waste-and as someone pointed out-uses your reaction which was probably spent using uncanny dodge already.

Mastermind is RIDICULOUS with granting advantage at range, however. Esp if you have another rogue in the party.

If you want an outdoors-y type, thematically Scout sounds great, but compared to other rogues, it falls short on cool options, IMO.

If I were to build an outdoorsy rogue, I'd go Half-Elf Assassin 4 and take sharpshooter or mobile feat, Gloomstalker Ranger 5, then back to Assassin>. Maybe grab Magic Initiate Druid somewhere for some more nature flavor.

You get your skills, natureness, and insane stealth and kill shots.

[Spacehamster]

A friend of mine and I are playtesting all kinds of classes from Xanathar's and I did try the Scout. Not that great, IMO. Thought the lvl 3 free escape move would be ridiculous but when you have to wait for the enemy to finish its entire move (including attack), it basically moves you a few squares after probably taking damage. If it was tweaked to be "if enemy ends or starts its movement adjacent to you" as a reaction to get outta dodge it would probably be a fantastic feature, but considering all rogues get cunning action disengage, it's kind of a waste-and as someone pointed out-uses your reaction which was probably spent using uncanny dodge already.

Mastermind is RIDICULOUS with granting advantage at range, however. Esp if you have another rogue in the party.

If you want an outdoors-y type, thematically Scout sounds great, but compared to other rogues, it falls short on cool options, IMO.

If I were to build an outdoorsy rogue, I'd go Half-Elf Assassin 4 and take sharpshooter or mobile feat, Gloomstalker Ranger 5, then back to Assassin>. Maybe grab Magic Initiate Druid somewhere for some more nature flavor.

You get your skills, natureness, and insane stealth and kill shots.

Where does it say that you wait for the attack before you move?

[MilkmanDanimal]

Not really an archetype that I think is great to play, but, as a villain/henchman? Lots of fun. Give a Wood Elf Scout the Mobile feat, a magic bow, a couple levels in fighter/ranger to get the Archery fighting style . . . it becomes an annoyingly fast enemy who can pepper the party with arrows and really piss off your melee fighters.

[Crgaston]

Where does it say that you wait for the attack before you move?

It says “when an enemy ends its turn...”

Presumably, if they are running up to you, they’ll attack before the end of their turn.

[Spacehamster]

It says “when an enemy ends its turn...”

Presumably, if they are running up to you, they’ll attack before the end of their turn.

Wow so basically completely useless ability then, probably not rai tho cus why would they make such a bad ability... I mean the starter ability in a subclass is supposed to be good no? :-/

[sophontteks]

The one target will attack, the ability can prevent subsequent attacks provided 15 feet is enough to move the rogue out of their movement range. Nice not getting swarmed and that additional movement can then allow the rogue to kite enemies.

You move back, and shoot. One attacks, you move back out of range of the others, they dash up, you bonus action withdraw and shoot, one attacks again.

Its a very fitting ability for a scout. Not the strongest ability, but its not bad.

The real trick is trying to make the most of the survival and nature expertise. Getting double proficiency in two skills is huge, but they are tricky skills to get a lot out of. It'll require some extra work to figure out creative ways to best use these skills in the campaign.

[jas61292]

Wow so basically completely useless ability then, probably not rai tho cus why would they make such a bad ability... I mean the starter ability in a subclass is supposed to be good no? :-/

I mean, depending on the situation, is actually better this way. It's not for dodging attacks. It's for letting you avoid further attacks in the future. If it was when they move next to you, then they could just follow after you move away and attack anyways, assuming they have enough movement left. This would gain you nothing. As is, it puts separation between you after they go, allowing you to further separate on your turn, and be completely out of range without needing to dash, even if they have the same, or slightly higher, movement speed as you.

[Spacehamster]

I mean, depending on the situation, is actually better this way. It's not for dodging attacks. It's for letting you avoid further attacks in the future. If it was when they move next to you, then they could just follow after you move away and attack anyways, assuming they have enough movement left. This would gain you nothing. As is, it puts separation between you after they go, allowing you to further separate on your turn, and be completely out of range without needing to dash, even if they have the same, or slightly higher, movement speed as you.

True did not think about that, if built around with Kensai and mobile you will have some sick movement even with that half movement to boot. :)

[Isaire]

I would argue that the reaction movement is perfect for an outdoors scout type. As a wood elf, using your reaction, movement, dash and ba dash, you can get 120 feet away from anyone who can get next to you. That's a pretty handy get away. Even as a human, you can reaction, movement, ba dash to get 75 feet away - far enough that even an orc can only keep pace with you and never get an attack off, while you can attack every round. You don't want to be close enough that the enemy can move + attack.

Equally, even in closer quarters, being able to move away as a reaction means that you can use your ba to hide and get advantage and sneak attack - that's pretty damn handy.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Scout isn’t bad, but it’s not the greatest.

But it does it’s job, so if you like the rogue class then this should be fine.


That being said a Ranger is useful too.

If I were you I’d use a Lizardfolk or Goblin Ranger.

Lizardfolk gives some extra skills, swim speed, an ok armor choice, and a fun ability to use your slain enemies as weapons.

But you also won’t start with a +3 in Dex or strength if you go point buy. For some that’s a deal breaker, not so much for others.

Goblin will give you a good chunk of the early rogue features, but you also be small which is bad for some. Goblin is very good tho, Dex and Con boosts are great, tho wisdom won’t get a +3 at start that doesn’t mean much for most rangers

[CTurbo]

Would like to try out a Tabaxi fighter 2, scout 10 and Kensai 8, grab mobile and use that scout mobility to never be in range for a melee attacker, as long as there is somewhere to retreat to ofc


Would be great with Aarakocra too. Just fly away after being attacked once lol

It is true that the Scout almost demands the Mobile feat despite being granted an extra 10ft movement. I guess it's no different than Assassin wanting Alert.

[MrStabby]

You can do some fun stuff grappling with a scout. Reaction movement doesn't stop you taking someone with you.

[Veldrenor]

You don't want to be close enough that the enemy can move + attack.

This right here. Scout is a terrific archetype, but it requires a certain environment and playstyle to be effective. If you're a melee rogue then it's better to be a swashbuckler for the free disengage. If you're a ranged rogue in a game that forces you to fight in small spaces then it's better to be an arcane trickster, mastermind, or assassin. But if you're a ranged rogue and the game gives you larger open areas so you can keep proper distance, then scout shines.

[Tanarii]

It's a very good archetype. It is lacking some all important features of the Ranger's Natural explorer, namely the ability to move around while Navigating or Foraging or Tracking without becoming automatically surprised as a result. That's an ability that is exclusive to Rangers in the Natural Explorer terrains.

But other than that, it's solid.

[Ding]

Thanks all for the insightful responses (except the guy reviewing shoes :smallwink:), lots of good points here. Several people mentioned Mobile to further develop the character's hit-and-run/kiting potential, so I think I'll probably spring for that feat at level 4. I'll have to talk to my DM about what kind of environment and combat situations we'll be in. It sounds like the overall enjoyment of playing Scout depends a lot on the campaign and battlefields.

I like the idea of a Ranger dip - I've looked more into the class and it definitely has great features for the type of character I'm going for. Level 2 for two spells and Archery as a fighting style seems solid, along with the favored enemy and terrain at level 1. At first glance, Gloom Stalker is the only subclass for which the level 3 feature(s) seemed worth it, but I'm open to any contrasting opinions on that. Right now, I doubt I will dip more than three levels - I want to stay mostly in Rogue. I'm still struggling with figuring out when exactly I would dip Ranger, though. As djreynolds said, Rogue gets pretty cool stuff nearly every level. Possibly after getting Expertise at 6, or after Evasion at 7?

P.S.
For fun, I just rolled up the character's stats (4d6 drop lowest), and they're pretty disgusting. Lady Luck was with me, I guess. Raw scores, before racial bonuses, etc: 18, 17, 17, 15, 13, 12. I probably won't end up using those stats, either because the DM won't allow it or just out of myself wanting to be fair to other players, but if I do I think it's safe to say this character will be strong regardless of my class choices :smalltongue:

[Nidgit]

Scout is basically a spell-less Ranger fitted onto the Rogue chassis. And as other have pointed out, those early abilities are all about maintaining distance either during group combat or when scouting and trying to reach the rest of the party. The main purpose of the reaction is to free up your BA for Dashing or Hiding instead of needing to use it to Disengage.

[CTurbo]

3 levels of Hunter Ranger gets you Horde Breaker or Colossus Slayer both of which are really strong for an archer. I especially like Horde Breaker as it's a totally free attack that you'll be able to pull off all the time.

[Tanarii]

Scout is basically a spell-less Ranger fitted onto the Rogue chassis.
The lack of Natural Explorer, limited in scope as the PHB version may be by having to choose specific terrains, is a big hit. Tracking and Navigating especially are important contributions to a party. Having to give up passive perception to notice threats, and thus automatically be surprised in an ambush, is a pretty big hit for a point man/scout. The bonuses ato tracking and being able to move at full speed while using stealth solo ahead of the group (aka as a separate party) is also very nice.

Of course, you can leave the tracking and navigating (and mapping) to someone in the back of the main party who doesn't care as much about being surprised. Unless the ambush comes from behind ...

[LtPowers]

If you're a melee rogue then it's better to be a swashbuckler for the free disengage.

Ah, but that's why I took the Mobile feat as a Human Scout. It doesn't quite duplicate the Swashy's signature feature, but close enough. Plus it turns the scout's 15-foot reaction movement into 20 feet (at 3rd level).


Powers &8^]

[guachi]

My short answer is I found the Scout Fighter better than the Scout Rogue. I liked the uses of Superiority Dice. The best part is that the extra skills on the a fighter are far more valuable for the fighter than the rogue.

[Nidgit]

The lack of Natural Explorer, limited in scope as the PHB version may be by having to choose specific terrains, is a big hit. Tracking and Navigating especially are important contributions to a party. Having to give up passive perception to notice threats, and thus automatically be surprised in an ambush, is a pretty big hit for a point man/scout. The bonuses ato tracking and being able to move at full speed while using stealth solo ahead of the group (aka as a separate party) is also very nice.

Of course, you can leave the tracking and navigating (and mapping) to someone in the back of the main party who doesn't care as much about being surprised. Unless the ambush comes from behind ...
Expertise in Survival and Nature pretty much covers most navigation and a good portion of tracking. Obviously it won't work as well in some specific cases, but it's more broadly applicable in others. Having to move slower to be quiet is unfortunate, but the presumable Expertise in Stealth helps to offset it.

It's not a one-to-one translation, of course, but I recall Crawford or Mearls mentioning that Scout had originally been intended to be a Ranger subclass before realizing it would be easier to spend it to a non-magical class.

[Tanarii]

Expertise in Survival and Nature pretty much covers most navigation and a good portion of tracking.
You missed my point. No amount of expertise changes the fact that you lose the ability to use passive perception to notice threats while doing it. Only Rangers in their Natural Explorer terrain have a class feature that allows you to do that.

Similarly, no amount of expertise lets learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area. Only Rangers in their Natural Explorer terrain have a class feature that allows that.

IMX these are not minor abilities. They're pretty huge benefits.

[Asmotherion]

As far as Gestalt-like subclasses go, Rogue-Ranger (This is what the Scout is really about) hits the trope and tone right, gives a lot of the abilities, and is probably what the Wizards were hinting as an end product of that "spell-less" ranger.

Personally, I don't like it. Still, I suppose some people may enjoy it over say, an Arcane Trickster or a Swashbuckler, for one reason or an other? I respect diversity, and I am not a person who believes that everyone should value the same things or be exactly the same.

I'll stick with my Arcane Trickster or Swashbuckler and occasional Assasin when I Dip Rogue though, as I have no interest in this subclass; I find it lackluster to my personal taste.

[Nidgit]

You missed my point. No amount of expertise changes the fact that you lose the ability to use passive perception to notice threats while doing it. Only Rangers in their Natural Explorer terrain have a class feature that allows you to do that.

Similarly, no amount of expertise lets learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area. Only Rangers in their Natural Explorer terrain have a class feature that allows that.

IMX these are not minor abilities. They're pretty huge benefits.
That's kind of the point of these mixed classes though. Take one class's strengths and apply them as a subclass to another, but not to the point that it's a straight replacement for the original source class. A Divine Sorcerer, for instance, pulls spells and healing to imitate a Cleric, but a Cleric will still have the benefits of Channel Divinity, Divine Intervention, and so on. A Scout isn't going to out-Ranger a Ranger, but they can fill the role pretty well in their own fashion.

[Tanarii]

That's kind of the point of these mixed classes though. Take one class's strengths and apply them as a subclass to another, but not to the point that it's a straight replacement for the original source class. A Divine Sorcerer, for instance, pulls spells and healing to imitate a Cleric, but a Cleric will still have the benefits of Channel Divinity, Divine Intervention, and so on. A Scout isn't going to out-Ranger a Ranger, but they can fill the role pretty well in their own fashion.
Gotcha. Yes, it's the point and yes the scout is good at it.

I'm too used to seeing people making claims the Scout is a superior replacement to the ranger, or before XtGE that any character with the Outlander background is a replacement for the Ranger. This ignores one of the Ranger's strongest "survivalist" features.

[mephnick]

I'm too used to seeing people making claims the Scout is a superior replacement to the ranger, or before XtGE that any character with the Outlander background is a replacement for the Ranger. This ignores one of the Ranger's strongest "survivalist" features.

Because people are too busy ignoring all the rules that make Rangers useful. People just want to win combats with no difficulty, never die, warp between encounters, storm from the table any time a negative effect occurs, and cry at the table remembering their favourite Critical Role moment.

[wasgreg]

Because people are too busy ignoring all the rules that make Rangers useful. People just want to win combats with no difficulty, never die, warp between encounters, storm from the table any time a negative effect occurs, and cry at the table remembering their favourite Critical Role moment.

I just spent a fifty minute phone call with one of my players explaining once again why his character can't do something he watched Mercer's group do. Summed up as, "We don't have that house rule, nor do I intend to implement it." *sigh*

As for the Scout, I'm looking forward to introducing an NPC scout to the campaign in response to the players active role against banditry.

I've enjoyed every rogue archetype I've played as a player. ( my healer/thief the most) I think they all bring something to the table ( even the mastermind :smallwink: ) I think the scout is a good at what he does. I think combat wise, he should be more ranged focused rather than melee.

I'm sure you already started your campaign by now and am curious what you actually did and how it performed.

[GlenSmash!]

I like the reaction movement.

I've my enemy hits me, I can choose to use Uncanny dodge and stay nearby, or take the full damage and move. If they miss I just move.

It's nice to have options.

[MaxWilson]

My main problem with the Scout is that their retreat feature uses a reaction. If a actually monster ends it's turn adjacent to you...it probably attacked you and you probably already used Uncanny Dodge. But I supposed if you don't get hit it's a good option.

You're supposed to stay at a range such that monsters can reach you only by Dashing, then your reaction gets you out of range again, and next turn you move back so they have to Dash again to reach you.

By "supposed to" I don't mean that's what WotC intended. I don't know if they thought things through. But that is how to get benefits from it.

[polie]

I put together a backstory where my var human was reluctantly raised by elves. He eventually joined a Elven skirmishing unit (which helps explains his skills to a degree...). Level 1 he took the feat sharpshooter, level 4 he went with Skirmisher. overall I like him as he can deliver a nice set of damage if allowed to hide, etc. and rarely pulls off a crit coupled with the -5, +10. Random thoughts:


feats are definitely needed I think to enhance him.
I too was tempted by mobile but the GM is doing theater of the mind and so much good natured fudging occurs with movement somewhat neutering this feat
I admit I am getting somewhat bored with the character as well at 4th level given he is a one truck pony in combat. All the DM has to do is put the fight in broad daylight with no terrain around and I become very average
DM is strict AL style player so I ended up with a proficiency in short bow as a rogue.


net net I think multiclassing is the one way to keep the char interesting...

[darknite]

It's another Xanathars 'would be great if only...' subclasses. Most of the class options in that book are like Tab soda - it tastes great at first but then the aftertaste hits and it just seems .... off.

[Keravath]

A particularly effective character with an outdoor feel could be a Gloomstalker Ranger 5/ Scout Rogue X focusing on ranged attacks. Extra attack helps land your sneak attacks and the extra abilities when fighting in the dark plus the additional attack in the first round of combat can be very beneficial. You also pick up a few spell slots which could include pass without trace making you exceptionally stealthy when you need to be. It won't really get fully online until 8th level though when you get the rogue archetype. On the other hand, most of the outdoor feel is already supplied by the ranger class. You can pick up the Alert and Sharpshooter feats if you want to boost initiative and make you impossible to surprise (as well as fire into melee without the opponents receiving cover). From a pure combat perspective, folks often combine Assassin rogue with gloomstalker but it should work fine with Scout for a very outdoor capable feel.

[Man_Over_Game]

You take it for the skills, not for the mobility. The reality is:
Most Rogues prefer ranged combat in order to use Sneak Attack, because ranged attacks are reliable and safe, when the Rogue lacks AC and has a middling hit die.
Ranged combat means the Rogue is unlikely to be faced against many adjacent enemies, resulting in fewer uses of your Scout's mobility feature.
Uncanny Dodge is effective for halving a single damage source each round, which is preferable for a character who isn't attacked very often.


Additionally, the mobility from the Scout is also roughly manageable with just the Cunning Action feature.

So either you're a ranged rogue (to consistently land Sneak Attacks) that only uses your Scout's mobility when you're less than level 5, or when you were recently attacked and anticipate a second melee attack that the mobility will save you from,
-OR-
You're a melee rogue (to take advantage of your Scout's mobility) that has poor armor, melee weapons, and a small hit die.

Take your pick.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only real example I've seen of when the Scout's mobility might be preferable is when you're playing a character that wants to stay in mid-range but DOESN'T want to spend their Bonus Action to move away from enemies. Good examples of these kinds of builds are Ranger multiclasses, light weapon throwers, or a Crossbow Expert.

[paladinn]

The Scout seems like an(other) attempt at doing a spell-less ranger. I'm actually in favor of a spell-less ranger; but I don't think this was the way to do it. It might have been better if it was left on the fighter chassis, but I'm not a fan of the superiority dice mechanic.

As it is, it strikes me like the old Archer classes from 1e. It's designed for mobile, ranged attacks; but then, what's the point of is being a rogue, since it's not likely to use sneak attack?

I'd like to see some of these features folded into the ranger class or put back onto a fighter subclass. Instant fit with the archery fighting style! But now this has been put into official print, so we're unlikely to see any serious reworking.

[patchyman]

I mean, depending on the situation, is actually better this way. It's not for dodging attacks. It's for letting you avoid further attacks in the future. If it was when they move next to you, then they could just follow after you move away and attack anyways, assuming they have enough movement left. This would gain you nothing. As is, it puts separation between you after they go, allowing you to further separate on your turn, and be completely out of range without needing to dash, even if they have the same, or slightly higher, movement speed as you.

It also allows you to use your Bonus Action to Hide instead of to Disengage, so it really has great synergy with the Rogue features.

[Yakmala]

I had a Half Elf Scout multi-class which I created primarily for the additional skills/expertise (Knowledge Cleric 1, Scout 3, Lore Bard 3 for 16 skills and 8 expertise at level 7)

I had the chance to make use of Skirmisher on occasion and found it not as useful as I originally hoped. Here were the issues with Skirmisher:
1: As a Scout, I mostly attacked at range so enemies were rarely engaging me in melee to begin with.
2: When an enemy did manage to get to melee range on me, my low AC meant they had a good chance of hitting me, which meant I'd probably be using my reaction for Uncanny Dodge, not Skirmisher.
3: While it's nice to be able to move away from an enemy that closes to melee range, I can also do that via Cunning Action by disengaging as a Bonus Action, leaving my Reaction for Uncanny Dodge.

Overall, I found the Swashbuckler's Fancy Footwork ability far more useful and better at simulating skirmisher tactics than the actual Skirmisher skill. Mobile is also an excellent choice here, but, of course, takes an ASI/Feat slot.

[Bjarkmundur]

I've had this trouble with a lot of rouges, and it is promptly an illusion.

Rogues simply get a smaller subclass, because the base class is so powerful. I always feel like the subclass features of the rogue are small and uninteresting. Rogues are stronk no matter what. You could probably play for a year without a subclass and nobody would notice.

Try this; look at the rouge base class, no subclass, and think "What do I need to make this feel like an outdoorsman". Based on your OP, you don't even need a subclass to get what you want; rogues get it all without it.

If you really want some dough, ask your DM if you can take Natural Explorer instead of taking a subclass:


Natural Explorer
At 3rd level, you are a master of navigating the natural world, and you react with swift and decisive action when attacked. This grants you the following benefits:

• You ignore difficult terrain.
• You have advantage on initiative rolls.
• On your first turn during combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures that have not yet acted.

In addition, you are skilled at navigating the wilderness. You gain the following benefits when traveling for an hour or more:
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.


You don't have to worry about powerlevel when you are playing a rogue. You're going to be plenty useful to the team :)