Favorite Monster Outside MM1

[Kelb_Panthera]

As the thread title, what's your favorite monster outside of the first monster manual. The more obscure the better and let's skip PC races.

Mine's probably OAs lung dragon family. Their unique place in cosmology of the setting and how they fit into the game because of it just tickle me in a way most creatures can't match.

Looking forward to some proper weirdness. :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

Many to chose from, but I do have a weird fondness for the Equiceph from the Miniatures Handbook. Large, Lawful Evil horse-men (almost like a reversed Centaur).

I used a few of them as foot soldiers allied with a band of Dispater-worshipping Hobgoblins in my campaign a few years ago.

[Remuko]

I have a unique fondness for the Hellfire Wyrm. It was one of the BBEGs of one of the very few campaigns I DMed a long time ago with my friends. The campaign ended before they got to fight it, but I just still found it very cool. 23 HD with CR26 though. Wew!

[magicalmagicman]

Ember Guard from MMV because they look like Infernals from Warcraft III. Nothing says "I'm a mother****ing wizard, bitch" than having one of these tailing behind me.

[RoboEmperor]

My answer is boring since it's from a player's point of view and for mechanical reasons rather than fluff, but... here it is! It's the Paeliryon from FCII.
1. Insulting someone to the point they get stunned for a round and shaken for 1d4 rounds is hilarious. You yell "You b****!" and they realize that it's true, they are a little b**** and get so shocked by this realization that are stunned for a round. How can you not love this?
2. At-Will Meteor Swarm finally lets someone who loves this spell use it without everyone at your table cringing from the gross misuse of a 9th level spell.
3. At-Will polymorph to make the Paeliryon look like something other than a fat old lady with tons of make-up on.
4. At-Will Mind Blank for the party.

[Crake]

I'm quite partial toward the frostwind virago from MM5. A relatively simple CR16 monster, but just awesome in terms of sheer power and execution. If they get you in a snowstorm, or during a foggy day, their captivating call will drag half the party to their doom, while the rest can't even get in close without dealing with DC25 will save vs daze every round

[unseenmage]

Awakened Sand created by the spell of the same name from Sandstorm. Especially if its Shapesand and Crawling Claws from Monsters of Faerun. So many helping hands.

[NerdHut]

I'm fond of the Ambush Drake from MM3. It makes a good mid-to-high level alternative to a pack of wolves. Between the debuffs and the advanced tactics, they're pretty awesome. I should probably spring some on my players soon.

[Nifft]

Steel Predator (from Fiend Folio).

It oozes style and menace, plus it eats magic loot. Scary in character, terrifying in the meta.


Runner Up: Tsochar (from Lords of Madness).

They're alien infiltrators who want to body-snatch your Wizard contacts, and wear your friends like disposable disguises, or just live in your body without paying rent and order you around on pain of death. They could use a bit more work, but they're an interesting new critter, especially if you want to run an aberration incursion type game and/or you like body horror.

[Khedrac]

My answer is boring since it's from a player's point of view and for mechanical reasons rather than fluff, but... here it is! It's the Paeliryon from FCII.
1. Insulting someone to the point they get stunned for a round and shaken for 1d4 rounds is hilarious. You yell "You b****!" and they realize that it's true, they are a little b**** and get so shocked by this realization that are stunned for a round. How can you not love this?
2. At-Will Meteor Swarm finally lets someone who loves this spell use it without everyone at your table cringing from the gross misuse of a 9th level spell.
3. At-Will polymorph to make the Paeliryon look like something other than a fat old lady with tons of make-up on.
4. At-Will Mind Blank for the party.
I would suggest going with the Paeliryon from BoVD instead. The FCII version has been toned down in all ways except the meteor swarm at will SLA, however when one looks at the DC for it, it is calculated as if the meteor swarm is a 3rd level spell. In my opinion they meant to replace it with a fireball but forgot to change the SLA name...
I agree that, as written, it is great fun though.

Drowned are one possiblility - but that is partly because they are very overpowered for their CR. I also have a personal fondness for worms-that-walk (epic rules), mainly for their Engulf ability - just the thing for when someone tries to shut down the enemy caster by grappling them...

In the end though, I think my favourite monsters are the ones that realy wind up the players without necessarily putting the characters at risk. Which one it is will depend on the circumstances.

[lylsyly]

Faerie Dragon from Draconomicon. Starting at Level 1, I had a Faerie Dragon just annoy the players every time they hit forests. Major Image to distract, Invisibility for Protection, Confusion Breath just for fun. She was a little thief too, Never took magic or anything important, but you never knew what ittle thing was going to go missing if you weren't alert at night.

Admittedly, I went overboard. I was having so much fun doing it that the players came to me OOC and asked me to stop at Level 4. In my own defense, I did somewhat make up for it. Gave the critter 2 levels of Rogue and had it help out the party from time to time. May be the most fun I ever had running a DMPC.

[Eldariel]

Let's see. While fairly poorly written, I have great fondness for the MM3 Ironmaw. Just the image of a giant plant thing slowly pulling struggling creatures in to feed on them feels very evocative to me, it's interesting mechanically and it really reminds me of the Old Forest in LotR sans the more overarching magical effects and spellsong. It's an interesting fight overall, though a bit high on the CR table for what it can do.

Jovocs [MMII] are also nasty little buggers that can make things incredibly dangerous around them (without getting into the infinite/very high damage loops for now). I think they're wonderful examples of high threat low toughness/CR extras in higher level fights. Tanar'ri cooperation is less of a thing than Baatezu, which lessens their innate threat value, but that doesn't mean spellcasters couldn't make great use of them. I like the niche they fill and I find it all extremely fitting for what they are.

FCI and FCII have some really cool demons and devils but I won't delve into them individually. I'll have to give a special shoutout to Amnizu [FCII] as a really interesting take on a "devil advocate" though (if lacking the possessive).

Oh, and much due to a personal experience, I'm quite fond of Ragewalkers [MMIII]. Beautiful all-rounders with very thematic and evocative abilities and quite capable of challenging most non-divine casters (only in closed quarters, much like Ironmaw). It's a beautiful marriage of fluff, mechanic and challenge, with a few nasty surprises to throw at any unwary opponents (though very interesting that it's fey, not undead).

Also, SRD but not MM1, Phane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#phane) [ELH] is probably my favourite monster in existence. I'm just a huge sucker for things that mess with time and time travel and mirrors of opposition and things to that effect. Another standout that I absolutely love all the way to its mythological origin is Genius Loci (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/geniusLoci.htm) as a really interesting creature/being that essentially is the land it fakes. Haunt Shifts [Libris Mortis] appeal to me for similar reasons, because I like haunting done right (more than just incorporeal creatures in walls).

[Telonius]

Favorite: Falxugon from Fiendish Codex 2. Classic "sell your soul" devil. This guy should have been in the Monster Manuals from the start.

Favorite obscure-ish monster: Energons, from Manual of the Planes. Essentially Positive and Negative energy elementals, they're one of the few monsters that get native Turn or Rebuke Undead, unrelated to Cleric levels.

[Psyren]

Living Spells are fun to just build. I like oozes in general actually.

In Pathfinder my favorite "monsters" tend to be the ones that can easily be player races (i.e. LA +0 and zero RHD) like Astomoi and Rougarou.

My favorite actual monsters are the Aeons (TN Outsiders), particularly the Lipika and Pleroma. I just love their design and aesthetic, and they can easily be both antagonists and allies depending on what the PCs are doing.

[lylsyly]

May I ask the source for the Aeons?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Favorite: Falxugon from Fiendish Codex 2. Classic "sell your soul" devil. This guy should have been in the Monster Manuals from the start.

Favorite obscure-ish monster: Energons, from Manual of the Planes. Essentially Positive and Negative energy elementals, they're one of the few monsters that get native Turn or Rebuke Undead, unrelated to Cleric levels.

Did you know the planar handbook has energons for the other 4 inner planes' elements?


Living Spells are fun to just build. I like oozes in general actually.

In Pathfinder my favorite "monsters" tend to be the ones that can easily be player races (i.e. LA +0 and zero RHD) like Astomoi and Rougarou.

My favorite actual monsters are the Aeons (TN Outsiders), particularly the Lipika and Pleroma. I just love their design and aesthetic, and they can easily be both antagonists and allies depending on what the PCs are doing.

That reminds me of my favorite ooze; the fiend folio's ethereal ooze. It fades in around you, engulfs, then fades back into the ether with you in tow. Easily the scariest ooze, IMO.

[Malimar]

Flail snails, flumphs, and duckbunnies.

Actually, Mind Flayers of Thoon. Although that's less a "monster outside MM1" and more a "monster from MM1 plus a plot hook".

So maybe the Crawling Apocalypse, the undead mummified kraken monster from Sandstorm.

[SirNibbles]

I'm quite fond of the Greenvise (Monster Manual II, page 120). Twice per day, it can create a 40-foot radius fog that slows all movement (except its own) to a ridiculous 1/10th normal and does 3d8 acid damage (no save) every round. Anyone without Freedom of Movement or teleport options has to use a full round action to move 5 feet (unless they normally have 50+ feet of movement), taking up to 8 rounds to get out of the Death Fog. Note: since it slows movement to 1/10th instead of reducing speed to 5 feet as Acid Fog/Solid Fog do, it can reduce speed to 0, which means a full-round action is required to move 5 feet instead of a move action.

It also blocks vision, but the Greenvise doesn't need to see you thanks to Woodsense. If it's nearby (15 foot reach), it can hit you with one of its 4 slams and its bite and then instantly start a grapple at a +26 bonus (+6 if it wants to hold you without being grappled itself). Good luck escaping. It's an insane CR 10 monster.

Long story short: traps you in a super-buffed acid fog and then kills you, CR 10.

[Telonius]

Did you know the planar handbook has energons for the other 4 inner planes' elements?

Yeah, but they seemed more "cute" than interesting. Also lacking the "hurtle towards mutual destruction" thing that the positive and negative ones have.

[Arkain]

May I ask the source for the Aeons?

Pathfinder Bestiary 2. It's also on the SRD (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/aeon/).

[lylsyly]

Pathfinder Bestiary 2. It's also on the SRD (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/aeon/).

Thanks. Now for a conversion, I like the whole concept.

[Psyren]

Thanks. Now for a conversion, I like the whole concept.

If you want a 3.5 version, I believe the TN outsiders there are called the Rilmani. But I personally think the Aeons are cooler. (Both their binary design, and their names.)

You can probably combine the best aspects of both groups into a single faction.

[Deadline]

I'm a huge fan of the Keepers from the Fiend Folio. Such a great Dark City vibe to them.

[The Viscount]

My favorite is Fensir from FF. Their abilities and rather detailed ecology I find absolutely fascinating. They're giants but they do more than just smash stuff. They all have racial wizard casting, and they can actually do something with their racial rock throwing through intelligent use of transmute rock to mud and the reverse, which FF actively encourages. They're always born as bonded twins, and sometimes they become larger, dumber giants that ravage the countryside. I'm a big fan of the art, too.

Some close behind it are the Dessicator, Cinderspawn, and Voidwraith from LM for a creative representation of what the tortured inversion of life that is undeath is like for elementals. Shame they didn't have an equivalent for earth (I'm aware that the Gravecrawler and Dust Wight are both undead with the earth subtype, but they aren't designed with the same philosophy).

[BowStreetRunner]

The Zeitgeist from Cityscape is my personal favorite. An urban fey with multiple manifestations, it's absolutely awesome to run if none of your players have ever heard of the thing. There are a lot of ways to create serious 'wtf' moments with these things! And the flavor of the spirit of the city come to life is fantastic.

[RoboEmperor]

I would suggest going with the Paeliryon from BoVD instead. The FCII version has been toned down in all ways except the meteor swarm at will SLA, however when one looks at the DC for it, it is calculated as if the meteor swarm is a 3rd level spell. In my opinion they meant to replace it with a fireball but forgot to change the SLA name...
I agree that, as written, it is great fun though.

Drowned are one possiblility - but that is partly because they are very overpowered for their CR. I also have a personal fondness for worms-that-walk (epic rules), mainly for their Engulf ability - just the thing for when someone tries to shut down the enemy caster by grappling them...

In the end though, I think my favourite monsters are the ones that realy wind up the players without necessarily putting the characters at risk. Which one it is will depend on the circumstances.

It's not BoVD it's FF, and FCII is the latest version of the Paeliryon so you're not allowed to use the FF version, at least from a pure RAW standpoint. In any case the at-will meteor swarm is what drew me to this creature, and everything else is just a bonus. I really want to use meteor swarm at-will!

Also I don't think the DC18 applies to the meteor swarm just like it wouldn't apply to Mind Blank. I think they just forgot to provide a DC for it, which is DC 24.

[Troacctid]

First one that comes to mind for me is the Lost from Magic of Incarnum. They have a really cool story to them, plus a neat emotion theme, and there's even a Lost Site mechanic to create cool adventure locations that can turn players into Lost.

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91223.jpg

[Bakkan]

I love the Runehound from MMIII. I used them to populate a swamp surrounding a tower the group was trying to reach. The first time the hounds attacked out of the oppressive mist, the party was dumbfounded, and barely escaped. Every time the party went to and from the tower they had to deal with the things, until they got themselves some silvered weapons and some hirelings, also with silver weapons. Eventually the party took over the tower, made it their home base, drained the swamp, and hunted the Runehounds to their lair to exterminate them. The party named the band of hirelings they brought in permanently to police the area "The Silver Blades", and each of the Blades always carried a silvered weapon. The Runehounds were an amazing part of the campaign that the players continued to talk about long afterward.

[heavyfuel]

The Zeitgeist from Cityscape is my personal favorite. An urban fey with multiple manifestations, it's absolutely awesome to run if none of your players have ever heard of the thing. There are a lot of ways to create serious 'wtf' moments with these things! And the flavor of the spirit of the city come to life is fantastic.

I absolutely love the Zeitgeist! It's a pretty obscure monster, so players are unlikely to have heard of, and it has so much flavor! My only problem with is its CR of 23, which I'm convinced is really just a typo, and should've been 13.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I absolutely love the Zeitgeist! It's a pretty obscure monster, so players are unlikely to have heard of, and it has so much flavor! My only problem with is its CR of 23, which I'm convinced is really just a typo, and should've been 13.

23 may or may not be a little high but that looks damn near unbeatable at 13.

[Telonius]

Ohh, yeah, the Zeitgeist. I actually have something planned for that. The next campaign I run is going to be superhero-themed, E6. The Big Bad's going to be kind of a cross between the Joker and Ras al Ghul, who's trying to turn the city against itself. His ultimate goal is to get the city into chaos and raise a Zeitgeist, so the city's own corrupted soul destroys itself.

[Eldariel]

23 may or may not be a little high but that looks damn near unbeatable at 13.

I dunno, it has little in terms of AC, its saves are only decent, it has no SLAs above level 6 spells (though granted, getting Animate Objects, Move Earth and various Walls at Will is quite strong), its physical offense is anemic, its magical offense is basically only Call Lightning Storm (Resist Energy pretty much negates it while Energy Immunity fully does), and while it has SR and incorporeality, SR is always subject to Assay Resistance and True Casting and incorporeality & invisibility are something I'd expect 13th level characters to have solutions to. Certainly a cool boss fight for level 10ish characters. Its Swarm and Smoke Manifestations are fairly strong but again, not out of line with what I'd expect out of level 10ish characters. It's probably a fair fight against higher optimisation Tier 1-2 characters but it can indeed prove to be quite the hassle for less versatile ones (as it is quite versatile itself, attacking with swarms and animate objects and reworking the city's infrastructure with an infinite amount of stone and iron).

Give it Mindsight and it can be quite the hassle to locate and engage decisively though.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I dunno, it has little in terms of AC, its saves are only decent, it has no SLAs above level 6 spells (though granted, getting Animate Objects, Move Earth and various Walls at Will is quite strong), its physical offense is anemic, its magical offense is basically only Call Lightning Storm (Resist Energy pretty much negates it while Energy Immunity fully does), and while it has SR and incorporeality, SR is always subject to Assay Resistance and True Casting and incorporeality & invisibility are something I'd expect 13th level characters to have solutions to. Certainly a cool boss fight for level 10ish characters. Its Swarm and Smoke Manifestations are fairly strong but again, not out of line with what I'd expect out of level 10ish characters. It's probably a fair fight against higher optimisation Tier 1-2 characters but it can indeed prove to be quite the hassle for less versatile ones (as it is quite versatile itself, attacking with swarms and animate objects and reworking the city's infrastructure with an infinite amount of stone and iron).

Give it Mindsight and it can be quite the hassle to locate and engage decisively though.

It doesn't need mindsight. It's all around vision says it sees from all directions because it's part of the city itself. I would argue that this means only natural terrain features block its LoS.

Even if you disagree, invisibility piercing magic has limited range and most of those SLAs have much longer range. Kiting is something this creature excels at. It could seem like the city itself is after the PCs for days, even weeks, without them ever realizing that there's a fey creature involved.

Even in a direct confrontation, the Zeitgeist will have absolutely no shortage of things to animate in the only type of terrain it occupies and using walls to hem in or block out PCs amongst the walls of the city is -way- easier than just about anywhere but a dungeon. Hells, it can animate its own conjured walls. Army of Thwomps comin' for ya.

I honestly still think 13 is too low. 16~ish maybe?

[Eldariel]

It doesn't need mindsight. It's all around vision says it sees from all directions because it's part of the city itself. I would argue that this means only natural terrain features block its LoS.

Even if you disagree, invisibility piercing magic has limited range and most of those SLAs have much longer range. Kiting is something this creature excels at. It could seem like the city itself is after the PCs for days, even weeks, without them ever realizing that there's a fey creature involved.

Even in a direct confrontation, the Zeitgeist will have absolutely no shortage of things to animate in the only type of terrain it occupies and using walls to hem in or block out PCs amongst the walls of the city is -way- easier than just about anywhere but a dungeon. Hells, it can animate its own conjured walls. Army of Thwomps comin' for ya.

I honestly still think 13 is too low. 16~ish maybe?

I agree 13 might be too low, but it has one glaring weakness: it lacks See Invisibility let alone Truesight in any shape or form. Thus a party has a relatively easy means to stay hidden from it (well, it can try the Spot-checks to see through invisibility of course, but that's not very reliable). Of course, regarding the PCs, locating an invisible, incorporeal, flying creature is easier said than done so actually forcing engagement is something else. But yeah, I'd assume it would mostly make stuff and keep sending it at the PCs. However, it's only CL20 and Animate Object is rounds/level so the absolute maximum it can have at any given time is 20 and given the things will probably have travel time, they'll turn "back" to normal fairly quick. And even Gargantuan Animated Objects are only so strong: +15 melee and combat maneuvers aren't really anything to write home about in the teens. Trample is probably the most dangerous attack they have which does some rather reliable damage, but against flight and invisibility it's only so reliable.

I'd be inclined to peg it at approximately CR 14-15 but I wouldn't be opposed to throwing one at level 9 caster party; it would be an interesting puzzle encounter, seeing how casters handle it with their newfound cosmic power level 5 spells. It's definitely one of the more interesting ones in the system.

[BowStreetRunner]

It could seem like the city itself is after the PCs for days, even weeks, without them ever realizing that there's a fey creature involved.
What's more, this thing is an intelligent being that knows the city and its inhabitants. Which means that it can use the city itself against the PCs - lead them into a confrontation with local groups of NPCs, other denizens of the city, or any hazards in the area. A well designed Zeitgeist encounter should consider this thing has been around a while and will have some sort of relationship with the rest of the inhabitants of its environment. A Zeitgeist won't be an encounter-in-a-can by itself, but would likely be more of a 'boss' encounter.

Imagine if Tucker's Kobolds lived in a city with a spirit like this on their side.