Scaling 5-foot-step to movement speed

[theblasblas]

I've seen some posts saying that high movement speed is useless for melee PCs because prioritizing full-attacks is more optimal, and in most cases you can't full attack if you move. I've been thinking of a homebrew rule solution for this and came up with scaling 5-foot-steps to movement speed using the following formula:

X=Speed/6

Which essentially translates to being able to make a 5-foot step for every 30 feet of movement speed, this allows for a benefit for high speed characters who want to make full attacks. For me it makes sense as there's no reason that PCs focused on fast movement should be restricted to the same degree of movement as slower characters.

Would this negatively impact balance? Should I make an exception for races like Dwarves who start at 20 feet speed, allowing them to make a 5-foot-step? Should I only allow one continuous "step", i.e. a monk with 90 feet speed has to take his 15-foot step in one go? What are other ways of making movement speed more useful for combat oriented characters?

[NerdHut]

There's already a restriction of the 5 ft step in the game that lends credence to this potential house rule. If your move speed is only 5 ft, you don't get a free 5 ft step (You can find the restriction here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm).

It stands to reason then that it would also change as speed increases to extremes. I'm not sure exactly how it would impact balance, but I like the concept. I'll let others handle the balance aspect.

I wouldn't take the 5 ft step away from from the races that have 20 ft move speed, though. It feels too extreme. I'd probably go with this:


Change the 5 ft step action's name to the Free Step action. It uses the same restraints as the original action, except as follows:
- Your Free Step action has a maximum distance of one sixth of your movement speed, rounded down to the nearest 5 feet (one square) to a minimum of 5 feet. The only exception is a creature whose move speed is only 5 feet, which would not be able to use this action. This movement must be in a straight line.
-So creatures such as Halflings, Human, or Light Horses would be able to take a 5 foot Free Step. A 9th level Human Monk would be able to make a 10 foot Free Step, because his movement speed is 60 ft. An Awakened Cheetah with 20 levels in Monk and under the effect of Haste would have a move speed of 140 ft, so it could take a Free Step of up to 20 feet.

So you'd basically have this progression, since move speed is always a multiple of 5


Move Speed

Free Step Max



Up to 5 ft
N/A


10 to 55 ft
5 ft


60 to 85 ft
10 ft


90 to 115 ft
15 ft


120 to 145 ft
20 ft


150 to 175 ft
25 ft


And so on

[Uncle Pine]

I've seen some posts saying that high movement speed is useless for melee PCs because prioritizing full-attacks is more optimal, and in most cases you can't full attack if you move. I've been thinking of a homebrew rule solution for this and came up with scaling 5-foot-steps to movement speed using the following formula:

X=Speed/6

Which essentially translates to being able to make a 5-foot step for every 30 feet of movement speed, this allows for a benefit for high speed characters who want to make full attacks. For me it makes sense as there's no reason that PCs focused on fast movement should be restricted to the same degree of movement as slower characters.

Would this negatively impact balance?
PCs focused on fast movement will usually get themselves one of the many options there are to move and attack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?103358-3-X-Ways-to-get-Pounce-or-Free-Movement).

That said, I don't think it's a bad idea per se. It's nice and mostly beneficial to mundanes so it won't break your game, although keep in mind that many big monsters tend to also have speed higher than 30 ft. which could make some of them a bit nastier.


Should I make an exception for races like Dwarves who start at 20 feet speed, allowing them to make a 5-foot-step?
Absolutely, at least for dwarves (since they already have extra rules about mobility). You could also rule that as long as your movement is higher than 0 you can still do a 5-ft. step, or limit it to those with speed higher than 10 ft.


Should I only allow one continuous "step", i.e. a monk with 90 feet speed has to take his 15-foot step in one go?
Yes.


What are other ways of making movement speed more useful for combat oriented characters?
See the link above.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think the 10' step should be easy to get, ideally available at ECL 1 for those characters that need it. That boost to 10' is really crucial, as it allows you to enter rough terrain, activate skirmish (scouts do get 10' fast movement quite early), and perhaps even climb or jump over a pit. To that end, I'd move the progression forward a bit: make it a 5' step for the first 10' of movement, and add 5' to your step distance for every 30' of movement. That way, typical PC races only need a 10' move speed boost to get that extra step distance, and haste/expeditious retreat add a straight 5'.

Note that this does make it easier for spellcasters to get their spells off safely, as well, and it weakens AoO builds a bit. Maybe only the first 5' of the step should be AoO-free.

[theblasblas]

Mostly, what I want to give more value to here are the classes that give bonuses to speed such as Barbarian, Monk and Scout. Making it a 10-foot-step at 40 speed might be a bit much as that would mean that almost any medium creature with Boots of Striding and Springing will be getting it.

An alternative could be making the base for 5-foot-step be at 20 speed, and then an additional 5-foot-step for every additional 30 speed, i.e. a creature will need 50 speed to get a 10-foot-step. This would allow a lvl 11 Scout or(lvl 3 with the quick trait or as a catfolk) to get 10 feet of distance for skirmishes, while still requiring greater investments from other classes that don't boost speed.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Mostly, what I want to give more value to here are the classes that give bonuses to speed such as Barbarian, Monk and Scout. Making it a 10-foot-step at 40 speed might be a bit much as that would mean that almost any medium creature with Boots of Striding and Springing will be getting it.
I don't think classes with speed boosts need this more than other classes. Fighters, paladins, rogues, knights--every melee class needs free movement as much as scouts, barbarians and monks. If you want to give additional value to classes with speed boosts, give them a bigger speed boost, or earlier, or something like Expeditious Dodge.

[theblasblas]

Rather than "need", I'm thinking more of theme. There's no reason why Paladins should be as good at being speedy as Scouts are. Though yeah, giving classes that boost speed a bigger boost in speed is an option. Additionally, what do you think of turning the speed bonus into an untyped bonus instead of an enhancement bonus? That way they can still benefit from items like Boots of Striding and Springing or spells like Expeditious Retreat.

[SirNibbles]

I don't think classes with speed boosts need this more than other classes. Fighters, paladins, rogues, knights--every melee class needs free movement as much as scouts, barbarians and monks. If you want to give additional value to classes with speed boosts, give them a bigger speed boost, or earlier, or something like Expeditious Dodge.

I think the point is that the speed boost class features are worthless if they don't synergise at all with full attacks. If you fast movement to be useful, it should be better than classes without fast movement when it comes to moving.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Rather than "need", I'm thinking more of theme. There's no reason why Paladins should be as good at being speedy as Scouts are. Though yeah, giving classes that boost speed a bigger boost in speed is an option. Additionally, what do you think of turning the speed bonus into an untyped bonus instead of an enhancement bonus? That way they can still benefit from items like Boots of Striding and Springing or spells like Expeditious Retreat.
Putting the 10' step at 40' movement means that every third-level scout/monk and every barbarian can do it automatically; everyone else needs to burn feats (Speed of Thought), class levels, or gp, and they probably have give up heavy armour (which makes them 'feel' more like a fast character). That way, you have a clear distinction between the fast and the slow, even quite early in the game.

Changing the bonus type would absolutely help scouts and monks invest in speed boosts, which would reinforce the difference between 'speedy' and 'unspeedy' characters.

[Bakkan]

I like this idea, though I would likely change the formula to Base Speed / 5. That gives 20 and 30 ft characters the standard 5 ft step, but 40 ft characters get a 10 ft step.

[CMagnum]

Ten foot step would make it really easy to get your precision damage off with the skirmish feature. There are already a ton of ways to get an attack off after movement so I don't really see this as overpowered, but I'm sure people can find ways to abuse this. Things like Wolf tactics comes to mind where you get a free 5 foot step in place of an AoO.

[Knaight]

There's also a case to be made for scaling it to size to some extent. Colossal creatures getting a 5 foot step is just weird.

[Falontani]

I want to point out Dragons becoming even scarier.
200 ft fly speed.

Speed / 6 = 30 ft of 5 ft steps (easily enough to catch any normal medium creature who uses the withdraw action and full move away)

speed / 5 = 40 ft of 5 ft steps

20 speed for 5 ft step+ an additional every 30 ft = 35 ft of 5 ft steps

All before the dragon uses it's innate magic. Expeditious Retreat, and haste are spells that the dragon could easily gain access to. Dragon took a level of barbarian and several levels of rage mage and abjurant champion? Look out world.

How does this all pair up with Spring Attack where you can move both before and after attacking.

take 15 ft Free step, full attack (devastating full attacks from dragons) and then 15 ft Free step back (up into the air of course)

How about an Aarakocra Monk/Scout?


Don't get me wrong, I think something like this is needed, but the question is how to make it fit and work without dangerous consequences.

[Remuko]

I want to point out Dragons becoming even scarier.
200 ft fly speed.

Speed / 6 = 30 ft of 5 ft steps (easily enough to catch any normal medium creature who uses the withdraw action and full move away)

speed / 5 = 40 ft of 5 ft steps

20 speed for 5 ft step+ an additional every 30 ft = 35 ft of 5 ft steps

All before the dragon uses it's innate magic. Expeditious Retreat, and haste are spells that the dragon could easily gain access to. Dragon took a level of barbarian and several levels of rage mage and abjurant champion? Look out world.

How does this all pair up with Spring Attack where you can move both before and after attacking.

take 15 ft Free step, full attack (devastating full attacks from dragons) and then 15 ft Free step back (up into the air of course)

How about an Aarakocra Monk/Scout?


Don't get me wrong, I think something like this is needed, but the question is how to make it fit and work without dangerous consequences.

I dont think you can make a 5 ft adjustment in the air normally so dragons flight speed wouldnt matter.

you cant make any other movement in a turn you take a 5 ft step iirc so that would still apply so no spring attack abuse, especially since its been clarified in this thread the intent as is to force all of the "free" movement to have to happen at once, so it cant be split up anyways.

[Bakkan]

I want to point out Dragons becoming even scarier.
200 ft fly speed.

Speed / 6 = 30 ft of 5 ft steps (easily enough to catch any normal medium creature who uses the withdraw action and full move away)

speed / 5 = 40 ft of 5 ft steps

20 speed for 5 ft step+ an additional every 30 ft = 35 ft of 5 ft steps

All before the dragon uses it's innate magic. Expeditious Retreat, and haste are spells that the dragon could easily gain access to. Dragon took a level of barbarian and several levels of rage mage and abjurant champion? Look out world.

How does this all pair up with Spring Attack where you can move both before and after attacking.

take 15 ft Free step, full attack (devastating full attacks from dragons) and then 15 ft Free step back (up into the air of course)

How about an Aarakocra Monk/Scout?


Don't get me wrong, I think something like this is needed, but the question is how to make it fit and work without dangerous consequences.

What if we made it logarithmic instead of linear?

20 ft movement speed = 5 ft free step.
Doubling movement speed adds 5 ft to your free step.

So:
20-35 ft movement = 5 ft free step
40-75 ft movement = 10 ft free step
80-155 ft movement = 15 ft free step
160-315 ft movement = 20 ft free step <- This is where the dragon is.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Just don’t allow flying Free Steps and say for each size above large the step increases by 5ft.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Unless that dragon invests heavily into maneuverability, they're going to fall out of the air if they only move 30' in a round. That seems like a fair tradeoff for a short-range no-AoO move-full attack.

[theblasblas]

I'm not too sure about scaling it based on size. If you're colossal but can only move 30 ft, that implies that though each step you take covers a large distance your limbs themselves move very slowly.

My main issue with anything that gives 40 speed characters 10-foot-step is that that puts the next increment for the x-foot-step at around 70 or 80. That amount is just as unreachable for scouts and barbarians as it is for fighters and paladins. Normally, anyone but a monk or an expeditious retreat-ed catfolk can get it. Of course, you could be a barbarian with the quick trait, and wearing quickness armor with an armor crystal of alacrity and boots of striding and springing for a total speed of 70, but I feel that's too big of an investment to be marginally better at x-foot-step than a fighter with boots of striding and springing.

Of course, I acknowledge that I can just houserule for class-based speed bonuses to be higher, but I'd like to change as few things as possible as far as the classes are concerned as that would require more balancing. Rather I'm trying to suggest a houserule that can be applied seamlessly to most games.

Now interesting thing about Spring Attack. One interpretation of it is that the movement of a spring attack is not required to be a move action, as it doesn't specify in the desciption, in that sense, I'd let someone use spring attack on their x-foot-step provided they have enough of it left to move.