Lv10, I wanna hit and heal. Whatcha got?

[jaappleton]

MCing available. All official material available.

Looking to be able to do some healing, I don't need to be the equivalent of a full blown Life Cleric, but I'd like to be able to get someone upright if things go south.

Need to use a 2H weapon.

Can't be Charisma based, though. Party is too Charisma heavy as it is.

I was thinking Cleric 5 / Fighter 5, or Cleric 5 / Ranger 5. Likely GWM either way, meaning the Cleric domain might be Light so I can heal, blast, and get Faerie Fire. Con proficiency via starting as Fighter also helps keep Concentration. Kinda leaning EK for the Fighter, so I can also cast Shield, though Battlemaster has its appeal.

Druid also shows some decent options as Fighter / Druid, or Ranger / Druid. Wild Shape certainly provides a utility aspect, being able to turn into a cat or something and overhear information.

If its viable enough, also giving consideration to an Archer. Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, we all know the drill. Just curious about some MC synergy, and how you guys rate things like Bless VS Faerie Fire on something like that.

[strangebloke]

Thief with fast hands, the healer feat, and a healer's kit. :smalltongue:

kidding, but also not kidding. The thief is probably the best non-magical healer in the game.

Multiclass into ancestral barb for damage mitigation to the rest of the party.

[nickl_2000]

2H weapon Hits hard with some healing screams Paladin to me. But since you said no Charisma people why not go

Mountain Dwarf Fighter Battle Master with level 4 ASI as +1 strength/+1 con, level 6 ASI as Great Weapon Master, and level 8 ASI as the Healer feat.

Gives you
18 str
8 dex
18 con
10 int
14 wis
8 cha

You get two attacks with GWM and can drop some serious damage. At one more level and you get a 3rd attack.


Alternately you can do Mountain Dwarf Fighter Battle Master 9/ Cleric 1
level 4 ASI as +1 strength/+1 con, level 6 ASI as Great Weapon Master, and level 8 ASI +2 str
Gives you
20 str
8 dex
18 con
10 int
14 wis
8 cha

You have healing word for emergency healing, bless to make sure you hit (so you can GWM more) and help with those saves, a sweet sweet con stat.

Life Cleric gives you better heals, Knowledge Cleric more skills, or Arcana Cleric more utility cantrips.


You could also easily go 8 fighter/2 Cleric to get more spells and channel divinity, which may make War Cleric worthwhile even though you only get to use the level 1 ability 2 times per long rest.

[Willie the Duck]

Fighter with the spare ASIs available to pick up the healer feat is just fine for the role. If you're willing to put a 13 in the cha slot, adding inspiring leader on top means an amazing amount of actual hp boosting for the party given the cost.

[ProseBeforeHos]

Gloom Stalker 5/War Domain 5 is a fantastic option.

Ranger 5 gives you 2 1/2 caster levels, 2 attacks, a fighting style, and a selection of druid spells. War cleric 5 gives you your wisdom bonus in extra attacks per day (works well with hunters mark), a good option for a ranged cleric.

I think light cleric is a much better fit for a pure caster who's more comfortable pumping wis. You might want to consider life domain to boost your limited healing abilities. Even low level spells get pretty good when boosted by disciple of life.

Test build:

Sidhien Norolond, Wood Elf Cleric of Shevarash (CG).

Str 10, Dex 18 (+2 from ASI), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.

Gloom Stalker 5/War Domain Cleric 5 (started ranger).

Skills: Nature, Stealth, Survival (class), Perception (elf), Acrobatics, Religion (background).

Feats: Sharpshooter.

Background Feature: Wanderer.

Fighting style: Archery.

Ranger spells known: Hunter's Mark, Absorb Elements, Goodberries, Pass Without Trace.

Basic equipment: Longbow, Studded leather, Short Sword, Dagger, Wilderness Supplies, Holy Symbol.

Cleric spells usually prepared: Bless, Healing Word, Cure Wounds, Prayer of Healing, Revivify, Detect Magic + whatever he feels he will need that day.

Backstory: His mother and father were killed by in a Drow surface raid when he was still a young elf, and his elder sister was taken as a slave. He was taken in by clerics of Shevarash who trained him, both in the tenants of their god, but also the martial skills required to hunt and punish the hated drow. He left the forests of his people, ostentatiously to spread the word of his faith, but secretly he searches for any clue that might lead him to the location of his sister. Personality wise, he is dour and reserved (normal for clerics of the Black Archer), but very also respectful of others faiths (he won't openly insult other deities, even if he views them as evil/wicked) - though Lolth is the except to this rule.

Playstyle: Open fights with Hunter's mark into attack actions. Try and set up ambushes if you can with pass without trace. If you're making attacks with advantage (i.e. from stealth) use sharpshooter for additional damage and get additional attacks from your cleric feature. Healing word is your go-to feature for getting your allies up off the floor (you'll be in the back). Goodberries and prayer of healing are your go-to options for out of combat "efficient healing".

***

A bit cliche but this should do everything you want it to do.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Straight War Cleric? A Life Cleric dip on a Ranger wouldn't be bad either; burn a couple spell slots on augmented Goodberries and you can top people off pretty well.

[Vogie]

Ranger X / Life Cleric 2

The Ranger's Healing Spirit is already strong, doubly so when it's augmented by Disciple of Life, and you also have an AOE healing action in Channel Divinity: Preserve Life. You'll also have Bless, Cure Wounds, and whatever 1st level Cleric spells you choose.

[Willie the Duck]

Ranger X / Life Cleric 2

The Ranger's Healing Spirit is already strong

I would suggest checking with your DM first on this one. It is amazing how quickly "All official material available." turns into {sound of paper being shredded} "I hope you didn't spend a lot of time on that. Come back when you are serious." once a player walks up with wish+simulacrum, coffeelock, or healing spirit cheese.

[CTurbo]

Moon Druid/Barbarian is always fun

War Cleric 1/Barbarian 9 for out of combat healing. GWM of course

War Cleric 1/GWF Fighter 9

Cleric and Ranger do mesh well too


Tempest and Forge Clerics are great for melee too

[Beechgnome]

Earth Genasi Circle of Dreams druid 5/Champion fighter 5.

Circle of dreams gives you bonus action heals without using spell slots, thought if you want to use spell slots healing word and healing spirit are also in play.

Druids are already pretty mobile, but Genasi can use earth glide in combination with earth tremor and erupting earth to rip up the battlefield to slow your opponents while gliding in to cleave through your enemies with his/her flint greatsword. Fluff as you will.

Other Druid spells that help with advantage (Faerie fire, entangle) synergize nicely with your improved critical, which in turn works with your GWM.

Only downside: druid armor limitations on metal may leave you vulnerable. Perhaps as your magic item you could inquire about the availability of dragon scale armor?

Assuming you are getting GWM as a free feat, Something like:

Str 18 (15+1 genasi +2 ASI (fighter 4th))
Dex 13
Con 14 (+2 genasi)
Int 10
Wis 16 (14+2 ASI (Druid 4th))
Cha 8

Otherwise swap out one of those ASIs for GWM. At 6th fighter either max strength, take resilience (dexterity) or bump Wisdom to 18.

Sample spells:
Cantrip Mold earth, Magic stone, Guidance
1 Faerie fire, Goodberry, Healing Word, Earth Tremor, Longstrider
2 Heat Metal, Healing Spirit (Pass w'o trace-racial spell)
3 Erupting Earth

[GlenSmash!]

Tempest and Forge Clerics are great for melee too

Oh yeah if going single classed these are great.

I also like the Gloomstalker/War Domain idea.

[SirGraystone]

I would go either Fighter 2 / Cleric 8 for action surge, or Fighter 5 / Cleric 5 for extra attack. Go fighter first for heavy armor (unless you have a cleric domain giving that anyway).

[MagneticKitty]

I'd vote revised ranger 5 / forge cleric 5
Go with defense fighting style and you can tank too.0

Other option would be tranquility monk (pool of healing = level x 10)
Tortles make good strength monks if you'd rather.

Paladin has what you want built in from the start. Pure paladin fits fine. But If you want more versitility add in warlock or sorcerer or bard.

Paladin 2 / swords bard 10+ is good for versitility with magical secrets and find greater steed earlier than paladin. You can ride a Griffin and dual weild Lance's (dual weilding fighting style and feat). And tank really well in heavy armor + defense fighting style from paladin. What's more metal than that?

[strangebloke]

Oh yeah if going single classed these are great.

I also like the Gloomstalker/War Domain idea.

Even just a level 10 gloomstalker is going to have sick healing capability, since healing spirit is on the table.

[jaappleton]

Really liking a Fighter 5 / Cleric 5 idea.

I know this is an odd thing to get inspiration from, but I saw a meme where it says, “An Arrow is addressed to a specific person. Fireball is “For Whom it May Concern”

So the idea of an Archery Fighter 5 / Light Cleric 5, with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter, is pretty appealing.

Action Surge allows for a lot of combinations with the spells and combat.

That combo of Cleric and Fighter let’s me hit hard, do a bit of healing, and a bit of blasting.

[Grear Bylls]

What you do, is play a Paladin/ Divine soul. Big smites, healing words, paladin spells, two attacks, charisma to saves (depending on leveling), fireball/spirit Guardians/revivify (depending on dip)

This is one of my favorite builds to play

[jaappleton]

What you do, is play a Paladin/ Divine soul. Big smites, healing words, paladin spells, two attacks, charisma to saves (depending on leveling), fireball/spirit Guardians/revivify (depending on dip)

This is one of my favorite builds to play

Can’t be Charisma based. Party is simply too Charisma heavy already.

[Vogie]

I would suggest checking with your DM first on this one. It is amazing how quickly "All official material available." turns into {sound of paper being shredded} "I hope you didn't spend a lot of time on that. Come back when you are serious." once a player walks up with wish+simulacrum, coffeelock, or healing spirit cheese.

Not necessarily - Healing spirit is the EPITOME of cheese outside of combat, but it isn't that great in combat. Having the ranger forgo some damage (and concentration) to pick up life cleric to MAKE it a decent in-combat heal isn't cheesy, but decent planning with some severe tradeoffs. Doubly so if they were a ranger archetype without a level 3 damage augment, thus really needing that Hunter's Mark damage.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't know how that contradicts what I said. Check with your DM. How hard is that?

[jaappleton]

Guys,

I’d kick my own ass for using Healing Spirit.

[nickl_2000]

Guys,

I’d kick my own ass for using Healing Spirit.

Yes, but it is so effective of a spell you would immediately heal it while you were kicking it.

[Beechgnome]

Guys,

I’d kick my own ass for using Healing Spirit.

That's fair. In my dreams/champ build you could swap it for enhance ability and still attack twice and either dream heal or healing word as your bonus action.

[Appleheart]

So, how about just a classic like 6 levels Tempest Cleric, and 4 levels EK?

This way you still get 2x ASI, Booming Blade from EK, and some cool Wizard spells for added support.

Or just go 5/5 and get two attacks instead of Booming Blade. All down to flavor/preference.

Grab a big maul, call down lightning and beat the crap out of stuff.

You'll also be both an Int and Wis caster, so definitely NOT Cha based :D

[jaappleton]

So, how about just a classic like 6 levels Tempest Cleric, and 4 levels EK?

This way you still get 2x ASI, Booming Blade from EK, and some cool Wizard spells for added support.

Or just go 5/5 and get two attacks instead of Booming Blade. All down to flavor/preference.

Grab a big maul, call down lightning and beat the crap out of stuff.

You'll also be both an Int and Wis caster, so definitely NOT Cha based :D

Well, there’s ways to do EK and not use Int at all.

[Citan]

MCing available. All official material available.

Looking to be able to do some healing, I don't need to be the equivalent of a full blown Life Cleric, but I'd like to be able to get someone upright if things go south.

Need to use a 2H weapon.

Can't be Charisma based, though. Party is too Charisma heavy as it is.

I was thinking Cleric 5 / Fighter 5, or Cleric 5 / Ranger 5. Likely GWM either way, meaning the Cleric domain might be Light so I can heal, blast, and get Faerie Fire. Con proficiency via starting as Fighter also helps keep Concentration. Kinda leaning EK for the Fighter, so I can also cast Shield, though Battlemaster has its appeal.

Druid also shows some decent options as Fighter / Druid, or Ranger / Druid. Wild Shape certainly provides a utility aspect, being able to turn into a cat or something and overhear information.

If its viable enough, also giving consideration to an Archer. Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, we all know the drill. Just curious about some MC synergy, and how you guys rate things like Bless VS Faerie Fire on something like that.
You know, honestly, just a plain Hunter or Gloomstalker Ranger with possibly one dip into Life Cleric is largely enough for what you want imo.

Besides that there are many many combinations that may work, it would help that you prioritize things for us.
Just so you know, a Light Cleric 5 (mainly because you seem to like Fireball, but it's otherwise a waste, I'd be partial to Tempest, Light, Trickery or Forge) / Land Druid 5 for example may work fine: pick Shillelagh as a Druid cantrip, boost WIS once, pick Magic Initiate if you want Booming Blade and go to town. :)
Who cares that you have only one attack? you would have one powerful attack, lots of spells to use on bonus action, and you're the best provider of everything non-combat related. :)

[jaappleton]

You know, honestly, just a plain Hunter or Gloomstalker Ranger with possibly one dip into Life Cleric is largely enough for what you want imo.

Besides that there are many many combinations that may work, it would help that you prioritize things for us.
Just so you know, a Light Cleric 5 (mainly because you seem to like Fireball, but it's otherwise a waste, I'd be partial to Tempest, Light, Trickery or Forge) / Land Druid 5 for example may work fine: pick Shillelagh as a Druid cantrip, boost WIS once, pick Magic Initiate if you want Booming Blade and go to town. :)
Who cares that you have only one attack? you would have one powerful attack, lots of spells to use on bonus action, and you're the best provider of everything non-combat related. :)

I need that Extra Attack, though. I know that mathematically, going with a SCAG cantrip can be just as powerful, if not stronger. However, the aspect of waiting my whole turn just for one swing, all or nothing, terrifies me. I just can't do it.

Third level spells are a big boon, I think we agree on that. But for the right third level spells, right? Cleric nets Spirit Guardians as a big one, and some Domains get better bonus options than others.

Meanwhile, Druids get Healing Word, Absorb Elements, Protection from Energy, Pass Without Trace, and some Land circles add things like Haste.

So... Huh. I think at first, I need to pick what I want to be able to DO with these spells.

I'm really leaning away from the frontline warrior aspect of this and leaning more toward Archer at this point. However, one issue I'm having is... What happens NEXT level, at lv11? Fighter gets nothing offensively to boost until their lv11.

With that said... How does this sound?

Fighter (EK)5 / Druid (Land: Grassland) 5
This nets me Shield, Absorb Elements, Haste, Pass Without Trace, Protection from Energy and Healing Word, plus additional spells.
Action Surge to help combat and Wild Shape to help utility / scouting.

And after that.... Well, all I can think of is to go Rogue. Otherwise, my combat effectiveness remains stagnant, plus that nets me a big boost to my skills.

That said, I'm not ENTIRELY sold on Fighter > Ranger. I'm just not totally seeing the positives of Ranger > Fighter. More spells, I guess, but... Man, Action Surge is nice. Though Hail of Thorns is kind of a ranged Smite in a sense, isn't it?

[xyianth]

Just to reiterate one of the first submissions, a thief rogue with the healer feat and a bunch of healer's kits is not to be underestimated. Generally, the most useful in-combat healing in 5e is the ability to bring an ally up from 0hp to 1hp as efficiently as possible. The thief rogue can do that as a bonus action and as a normal action. The ability to give a free cure wounds spell per character per rest is a nice bonus as well.

Thief Rogue 5/Fighter 1/Thief Rogue +4 with the Healer and Magic Initiate(Wizard: Find Familiar, Booming Blade, <any other Wizard cantrip>) feats and the dueling fighting style can both hit quite hard and pull off an impressive amount of healing. Not to mention being fairly tanky and skillfull.

[Kane0]

Pure Eldritch knight, and bribe your DM until they let you swap the Wizard spell list for the Cleric.

[djreynolds]

Unless your a life cleric or paladin, all you really have is healing word or cure wounds to use, which multiple classes get already

Now faerie fire is sweet, but a barbarian can recklessly attack and get advantage

And faerie fire is concentration which could hamstring you and they can simply leave, and there are better spells to concentrate on.

I find the bless spell works quite well with GWM

So I have a crazy build for you. And it works.

First off reckless attack, not rage, can be done in heavy armor. Only rage requires medium armor.

Now forge cleric gets the shield spell, I initially made this build with EK, but it will work better with forge cleric.

So they key is this, your reckless attack getting you advantage, and when your enemy attacks you spam the shield spell which lasts your turn. They say advantage is worth +5, same as the shield spell. AC 23, will be difficult to hit, you'll just have to deal with natural 20s

8 Forge cleric/ 2 barbarian. I would begin with cleric to grab the wisdom saving throw proficiency, and just max out strength. Now you can concentrate on spells, and get advantage through reckless attack. Your average AC will be 23 with the shield spell, but shield of faith gives another +2 also.

[Citan]

I need that Extra Attack, though. I know that mathematically, going with a SCAG cantrip can be just as powerful, if not stronger. However, the aspect of waiting my whole turn just for one swing, all or nothing, terrifies me. I just can't do it.

Third level spells are a big boon, I think we agree on that. But for the right third level spells, right? Cleric nets Spirit Guardians as a big one, and some Domains get better bonus options than others.

Meanwhile, Druids get Healing Word, Absorb Elements, Protection from Energy, Pass Without Trace, and some Land circles add things like Haste.

So... Huh. I think at first, I need to pick what I want to be able to DO with these spells.

I'm really leaning away from the frontline warrior aspect of this and leaning more toward Archer at this point. However, one issue I'm having is... What happens NEXT level, at lv11? Fighter gets nothing offensively to boost until their lv11.

With that said... How does this sound?

Fighter (EK)5 / Druid (Land: Grassland) 5
This nets me Shield, Absorb Elements, Haste, Pass Without Trace, Protection from Energy and Healing Word, plus additional spells.
Action Surge to help combat and Wild Shape to help utility / scouting.

And after that.... Well, all I can think of is to go Rogue. Otherwise, my combat effectiveness remains stagnant, plus that nets me a big boost to my skills.

That said, I'm not ENTIRELY sold on Fighter > Ranger. I'm just not totally seeing the positives of Ranger > Fighter. More spells, I guess, but... Man, Action Surge is nice. Though Hail of Thorns is kind of a ranged Smite in a sense, isn't it?
Well, as I said, really Gloomstalker 9 / Life Cleric 1 is all you need. It can work with GWM too.
And you can pick Whirlwind 2 levels later if your DM agrees to overrule the stupid 5 feet limitation and make it "weapon reach".

That character would get the Life bonus on Goodberries, Healing Word and Healing Spirit. Healing is covered.
You'd get Pass Without Trace, Conjure Animals and Water Breathing for sneaking / utility.
You'd get Extra Attack, Ensnaring Strike and Zephyr's Strike for attack. And you get 2 ASI, enough for GWM and STR bump. Although honestly I don't understand why you would want GWM if you're afraid of hit chances. XD

About the Druid / Cleric, well, I didn't expect you to get just one swing in the wild: first, Druid gets Faerie Fire so you could get advantage. Second, you have Spiritual Weapon, Heat Metal, Flaming Sphere, Dust Devil which all can be activated every turn as a bonus action. So chances of not dealing any damage is fairly low. ^^

About Fighter: honestly imo it's worth only if you want/need as many ASI as possible for some reason. Otherwise extra ASI and Action Surge being the only added value...
Action Surge is nice but won't make that much of a difference overall: if your total caster level is ~5, you will probably rarely want to use 2 high level spells at the same time: so, yeah, it's nice but you can do without. As far as attacks are concerned, yeah you deal good extra damage if you have GWM activated, but nothing extra impressive that would justify a tradeoff with more caster level (better spells, and slot: like upcasting a Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon or Flaming Sphere one more level would quickly match and trump the added damage on a given fight) for example.
So I'd say it's worth mainly if you want to use a particular spell as an opening buff/battlefield regularly, like ending with a character that, for the important fights, can set up a Wind Wall for friends before rushing in, or Haste himself and go to town for example.
Otherwise Ranger or even Monk, as hard as may be stats-wise, would be better (yeah, Monks in armor work, just in a very different way and from level 3 or 5 only depending on archetype choice ^^).

[Spore]

Not necessarily - Healing spirit is the EPITOME of cheese outside of combat, but it isn't that great in combat.

First of all, I am not even sure what you guys mean by 'cheese'.

A cheese strategy is simply a high risk/high reward tactic which aims to win a game with little strategic effort, and relies on the failure of the opponent to properly react. A cheese strategy will often leave the cheeser at a significant disadvantage should the cheese fail.

The word originates from Starcraft where it describes an easy win strategy. But healing spirit is not "winning." Scry and kill is such a cheap thing. Disintegrate spam would be such a thing. By this definition not even coffeelock would be such a thing (because extra slots increase your staying power, not your power level; and if a player would stack extra spells to get over the next encounter, I would make sure their patron would require compensation in the form of a job because they are powerful beings but the magic they grant is not limitless either and the 'lock is siphoning more than their fair share).

But tangent aside, healing spirit is NOT cheese. The spell description is very straight forward and would have likely been changed during a playtest if it were perceived as invasive. For rangers it is a fairly high level spell. For druids it forces them to shift back to heal the party. And HP healing is NOT the best thing to do with your spell slots anyway when there are still hit dice for short rests, if there is a bard's song of rest, or if you simply could use defensive spells and class features such as second wind or barbarian's rage to reduce the incoming damage.

[GorogIrongut]

I'm going to suggest something that's a somewhat deviation from the main group of suggestions so far.

Go for a Barbarian 2/Gloom Stalker 8
Barb gives you Rage, Unarmoured Defense, Danger Sense and Reckless. All of those are great with some of those being epic.
Gloom Stalker on the other hand just keeps giving and giving. You take what you're given by the Barb and then turn into a blender. A sneaky, psycho blender who can do spell casting when not using rage.
Now I know you said you wanted healing and Rangers can do a small amount of healing, even when not using the Spell Which Shall Not Be Named. You just become good friends with Goodberry.

[Spiritchaser]

Ranger X / Life Cleric 2

The Ranger's Healing Spirit is already strong, doubly so when it's augmented by Disciple of Life, and you also have an AOE healing action in Channel Divinity: Preserve Life. You'll also have Bless, Cure Wounds, and whatever 1st level Cleric spells you choose.

I was going to suggest this as well, but I would be inclined to go deeper into life cleric.

That having been said, I’m sure any division would be strong with out of combat healing of that magnitude and solid melee damage.

[Vogie]

I was going to suggest this as well, but I would be inclined to go deeper into life cleric.

That having been said, I’m sure any division would be strong with out of combat healing of that magnitude and solid melee damage.

That's true... After you get to ranger 5 for an extra attack 3rd level will give you Spiritual Weapon, which would give a Third attack using your bonus action if your targets are within 60 ft, and if you get all the way up to 8th level for Divine smite that'd be pretty BA

[Willie the Duck]

First of all, I am not even sure what you guys mean by 'cheese'.

Even if we hammered out a technical definition for how people here are using 'cheese,' it'd almost instantly be rendered immaterial in the next post when it was used slightly differently. Cheese, like the proverbial 'smut' is a 'know it when you see it' kind of thing. It is a difference between what is allowed by the rules and what is allowed by social convention.

The thing is, it doesn't really matter whether you or I agree that Thing A is cheese. We really don't get a vote in the matter. If random passerby gamer is impressed that you accomplished victory-over-scenario B with resources C and says, "good job, I'm really impressed that you pulled that off! You must be really good at... oh, wait... you used Thing A, nevermind," it's way too late to start arguing, "No, you see, that doesn't meet the technical definition of cheese... come back!"

So is Healing Spirit cheese? If everyone seems to think it is, then it is because what is or isn't cheese is a social consensus. I won't pretend to have my thumb on the pulse of the amalgamated gamer in the field, but my perception is that it is agreed that it is.


But tangent aside, healing spirit is NOT cheese. The spell description is very straight forward and would have likely been changed during a playtest if it were perceived as invasive.

By that logic, Wish+Simulacrum must not be cheese. For that matter, all the great many 3e exploits (barring the truly obscure/intricate ones where the designers might literally not have known that X would be the consequence of Y) aren't cheese (and if Hulking Hurler or CoDzilla aren't cheese, then there needs to be a new term made up to capture the same concept, and why don't we just redefine cheese to include those, instead?).


For rangers it is a fairly high level spell. For druids it forces them to shift back to heal the party. And HP healing is NOT the best thing to do with your spell slots anyway when there are still hit dice for short rests, if there is a bard's song of rest, or if you simply could use defensive spells and class features such as second wind or barbarian's rage to reduce the incoming damage.

It is certainly a resource expended. No argument there. There are plenty of situations where there are other options (it has also been argued that out-of-combat healing is irrelevant anyways because there's little to spend your GP upon other than healing potions anyways). Healing Spirit seems to be in the strange position of being nearly useless in the situation where your games already look like that, and utterly landscape changing if your playstyle hews closer to 'extreme management of precious resources.' There doesn't seem to be a middle ground for it (excepting by altering it or declaring that it works one way in combat, and another in a stress-free situation).

[jaappleton]

I'm gonna throw a concept into this mix kinda late, and I want your opinions.

Monk / ???

I get stuff on a short rest. I get stuff on a long rest. Monk would either be 5 or 7, depending on what I split it with, since Evasion is awesome.

Some Domains, like War, help me damage wise with Divine Favor. It lets me heal. Spirit Guardians is a good way to get extra damage on some foes, too.

Alternatively, Monk / Druid gets me some more defensive oriented spells like Absorb Elements to couple with Evasion, and going Grassland nets me Haste.

Your thoughts?

[Willie the Duck]

I get stuff on a short rest. I get stuff on a long rest. Monk would either be 5 or 7, depending on what I split it with, since Evasion is awesome.

Some Domains, like War, help me damage wise with Divine Favor. It lets me heal. Spirit Guardians is a good way to get extra damage on some foes, too.

It's certainly not bad. Note that Monk 5+ means Cleric of no more than 5 which means Spirit Guardians no more than 2/day.

I don't know what else to add. Like a wizard5/fighter5, the monk5/cleric5 is has a significant resilience boost compared to a pure spellcaster, and likely a lot more resource-less damage output. But your spellcasting is doing significantly less than a pure spellcaster 10.

[jaappleton]

It's certainly not bad. Note that Monk 5+ means Cleric of no more than 5 which means Spirit Guardians no more than 2/day.

I don't know what else to add. Like a wizard5/fighter5, the monk5/cleric5 is has a significant resilience boost compared to a pure spellcaster, and likely a lot more resource-less damage output. But your spellcasting is doing significantly less than a pure spellcaster 10.

But significant more at-will damage. Spells would be to heal a bit, as well as enhance my combat prowess and provide some utility. Knowledge and War domains seem like great contenders, though Spiritual Weapon doesn't do much on a Monk. Grassland is really the only Druid option I see as being worth it. I know one Land option gets Lightning Bolt, but the damage would be pretty stagnant, since I doubt I'd go further into Druid beyond 5.

Who doesn't love a party member with Stunning Strike?

Just wondering what Monk archetype works best. I don't want Open Hand, as prone would mess up the Archer we have. Long Death isn't bad, but the Temp HP isn't helping me as much as a full Monk. Sun Soul nets me a ranged option but I'm a Monk, I can run up to the enemy and punch. Drunken Master isn't sexy, but it works, and I despise Kensei. Shadow... is interesting. That's a solid option.

[Petrocorus]

When it comes to Cleric Domains, i would add Arcane, it can be good in conjunction with Fighter.



I would suggest checking with your DM first on this one. It is amazing how quickly "All official material available." turns into {sound of paper being shredded} "I hope you didn't spend a lot of time on that. Come back when you are serious." once a player walks up with wish+simulacrum, coffeelock, or healing spirit cheese.
It is amazing how quickly people on this board tend to forget about this.


I need that Extra Attack, though. I know that mathematically, going with a SCAG cantrip can be just as powerful, if not stronger. However, the aspect of waiting my whole turn just for one swing, all or nothing, terrifies me. I just can't do it.

2 attacks have the advantage to have lesser chances to completely miss. It also better against single target.



That said, I'm not ENTIRELY sold on Fighter > Ranger. I'm just not totally seeing the positives of Ranger > Fighter. More spells, I guess, but... Man, Action Surge is nice. Though Hail of Thorns is kind of a ranged Smite in a sense, isn't it?
It depends on what Ranger you talk about. I'm partial against the PHB Ranger, too many of his features are situational or just weak.



Monk / ???

Monk can be good in MC with Cleric and Druid.
Monk's mobility + Guardian Spirit can be awesome.

Druid works well too since Monk AC and movement work in Wildshape.

[Vogie]

That would open up a lot of possibilities.

Sun Soul Monk X / Life Cleric 2

Kensai Monk X / Grave Cleric 1

Long Death Monk X / Death Cleric 2

Way of the Open Hand Monk X / Dreams Druid 2

The problem with any Monk MC is their breakpoint is higher than most classes, thus delaying spellcasting (& by extention, healing) for a while. 5 for extra attack & Stunning strikes? 6 for Ki-Empowered Strikes? 7 for Evasion?

[jaappleton]

If I go Monk, I think aim stopping as Spellcaster 5. Going further into Monk brings a lot, let’s me get more Ki, increases my martial arts damage and Monks get something good and unique at nearly every level. There’s always a reason to go deeper into Monk in this scenario.

Going deeper into Caster than 5 has diminishing returns, as I’d be so delayed behind a pure Caster. That’s why I’m just going to third level spells, because 3rd Level spells really never stop being useful. Spirit Guardians is always 3d8 as long as I concentrate. Revivify is always good, going Grass Druid gets Haste which is always good. Hold Person, even against a single target, never stops being good against a Humanoid. Knowledge Cleric with Suggestion is always worthwhile. Etc.

What’re your thoughts on Shadow Monk 5 / Knowledge Cleric 5?

Or Shadow 7 / Knowledge 3?

[Protato]

Swords or Valor Bard would be good for you, maybe with a few in Fighter (I'd go Champ or BK) and/or Divine Soul Sorcerer. If you go Divine Soul, you could pick up healing of course, but blasting is a good addition too, especially as Bard doesn't have many blaster spells in its repertoire. Given that you start at level 10, I'd go maybe L5 Fighter, L3 Bard, and L2 Sorcerer. Alternatively, L6 Bard, L3 Fighter, L1 Sorcerer. I hope this is remotely helpful to you.

[Citan]

If you can wait tomorrow I ll have several good suggestions for you. I love Monks. : )

But tonight only mobilr typing is a pain so...

[jaappleton]

If you can wait tomorrow I ll have several good suggestions for you. I love Monks. : )

But tonight only mobilr typing is a pain so...

I’m actually playing tonight, unfortunately.

[CTurbo]

I’m actually playing tonight, unfortunately.



Well what did you decide on?

I like the Shadow Monk with Gloom Stalker or Assassin/Arcane Trickster, but Knowledge Cleric?

[Citan]

I’m actually playing tonight, unfortunately.
Ahaaa...

Well, fortunately, I have arrived at home (kinda), maybe it's still time...

So.
The Classic "You Shall Not Pass".

Option 1: Tempest Cleric 4 / Long Death Monk 5 / whatever
Heavy armor, whatever weapon you fancy, preferably a big one because you're a scary guy after all.
Pick Booming Blade one way or another, launch Spirit Guardians, use Ki solely on Dodge or Stunning Strike.
Certainly not the easiest to make work, but can deal hefty lump of damage.

Option 2: Nature Cleric / Open Hand | 4E | whatever really Monk: either 5/5 or 7 / 3 or 5 / 4 / 1 Rogue (Expertise) depending on taste and choice.
The big idea here is to combine Spirit Guardians and Plant Growth to completely immobilize enemies. Which means you have to draw/keep them into it, for which Thorns Whip, Shove, Grapple and Stunning Strike are all valid choices.

Option 3: would require char level 12 to work without trouble, so no details. :)

The Protector
Open Hand Monk 6 / Shepherd Druid 3 / Life Cleric 1.
Healing will be ample covered, you get lots of utility to use bonus action on if you want to spare ki for Stunning Strike.

The Tricky
Trickster Cleric 3 / Rogue 2 (later Thief or Arcane Trickster) / Kensei Monk 5:
This Monk will be damn hard to beat, between Shield of Faith, Agile Parry, Mirror Image and later Shield.
It's also very good at hitting thanks to the Channel Divinity providing advantage on any attack and possibly Bless instead of Shield of Faith.
Probably the easiest so far, although competition for bonus action is very hard on this one.

The Caster
4E Monk 5 / Light Cleric 5 for fire-related (pick Fangs of Fire Snake to pair with Fireball).
4E Monk 7 / Tempest Cleric 3 for thunder related (pick Thunderwave and Shatter as Monk).
4E Monk 5 / Land (whichever) Druid 5 for generalist.
Shadow Monk 6 / Desert Land Druid 4 with Observant feat for infiltration expertise (Silence, Darkness, Invisibility, Wild Shape).

The Grappler
Monk 4 / Grassland Druid 5 (Haste) / Rogue 1 (Expertise in Stealth, Athletics).
Many fun things to be done here provided you are creative and encounters suit this kind of tactic.

[jaappleton]

Was actually thinking Shadow Monk 5 / Trickery Cleric 5.

[CTurbo]

Ahaaa...

Well, fortunately, I have arrived at home (kinda), maybe it's still time...

So.
The Classic "You Shall Not Pass".

Option 1: Tempest Cleric 4 / Long Death Monk 5 / whatever
Heavy armor, whatever weapon you fancy, preferably a big one because you're a scary guy after all.
Pick Booming Blade one way or another, launch Spirit Guardians, use Ki solely on Dodge or Stunning Strike.
Certainly not the easiest to make work, but can deal hefty lump of damage.

Option 2: Nature Cleric / Open Hand | 4E | whatever really Monk: either 5/5 or 7 / 3 or 5 / 4 / 1 Rogue (Expertise) depending on taste and choice.
The big idea here is to combine Spirit Guardians and Plant Growth to completely immobilize enemies. Which means you have to draw/keep them into it, for which Thorns Whip, Shove, Grapple and Stunning Strike are all valid choices.

Option 3: would require char level 12 to work without trouble, so no details. :)

The Protector
Open Hand Monk 6 / Shepherd Druid 3 / Life Cleric 1.
Healing will be ample covered, you get lots of utility to use bonus action on if you want to spare ki for Stunning Strike.

The Tricky
Trickster Cleric 3 / Rogue 2 (later Thief or Arcane Trickster) / Kensei Monk 5:
This Monk will be damn hard to beat, between Shield of Faith, Agile Parry, Mirror Image and later Shield.
It's also very good at hitting thanks to the Channel Divinity providing advantage on any attack and possibly Bless instead of Shield of Faith.
Probably the easiest so far, although competition for bonus action is very hard on this one.

The Caster
4E Monk 5 / Light Cleric 5 for fire-related (pick Fangs of Fire Snake to pair with Fireball).
4E Monk 7 / Tempest Cleric 3 for thunder related (pick Thunderwave and Shatter as Monk).
4E Monk 5 / Land (whichever) Druid 5 for generalist.
Shadow Monk 6 / Desert Land Druid 4 with Observant feat for infiltration expertise (Silence, Darkness, Invisibility, Wild Shape).

The Grappler
Monk 4 / Grassland Druid 5 (Haste) / Rogue 1 (Expertise in Stealth, Athletics).
Many fun things to be done here provided you are creative and encounters suit this kind of tactic.



Tempest is my favorite Cleric domain by far! So much awesomeness

Long Death is my favorite Monk too so combining them together sounds fun to me.

Honestly I would take a single level of Cleric and stay Monk from there to have as much ki as you can.

War or Tempest would by my top choices for a 1 or 2 level dip. Tempest, Life, or Light would be my choice for more levels.

[apepi]

My I offer another suggestion.

Moon Druid with Healing Spirit. Cast it before you shapeshift then move it around while you while you maul people as a bear.