[3.5] Gaining An Inherited Template Later

[Thurbane]

So, looking for some help here.

I know some inherited templates have clauses or spells that can add them to an existing creature.

In this case I'm trying to find a RAW legal method to apply the Woodling template to a Riding Dog. It's a Ranger's animal companion, but that shouldn't make any difference.

I'm the DM, so no "ask the DM" answers please: I always try to find a RAW method before using DM fiat/rule 0.

Cheers - T

[AnimeTheCat]

Is this a freshly acquired animal companion?

[Goaty14]

Is this a freshly acquired animal companion?

I'm assuming it is an existing animal companion, and Thurbane (the DM) wants to reward the animal companion/player for doing something cool, without pulling out a new one.

That said, the animal companion could probably be reincarnated with the template, given the DM is free to change the table for nonhumanoids.

[flappeercraft]

So, looking for some help here.

I know some inherited templates have clauses or spells that can add them to an existing creature.

In this case I'm trying to find a RAW legal method to apply the Woodling template to a Riding Dog. It's a Ranger's animal companion, but that shouldn't make any difference.

I'm the DM, so no "ask the DM" answers please: I always try to find a RAW method before using DM fiat/rule 0.

Cheers - T

There are rituals on savage species to change a creature to another so those would likely work for this.

[PrismCat21]

Is this your wife's riding dog animal companion? From back when you were asking advice upon her first taste of 'caster supremacy'?

Any way you could that's close to RAW probably wouldn't be as fun as coming up with something yourself.
Woodlings have an unusual bond with Nature. Perhaps a Druid's beneficial spell went wrong. A super Barkskin accidentally made permanent. The reincarnation suggested above seems the easiest and fun.
Good luck Thurbane

[unseenmage]

I know it's practically fiat but custom spell research could work here too. A reworked version of a spell that applies a template like Mineralize Warrior for example.

[Falontani]

A gift from a Treant, or other sentient plant, a rare spell that costs xp for them. (and yes its a custom spell)

[Troacctid]

Savage Species has a note on the topic.

If a player wants an existing character to obtain an inherited template partway through his or her adventuring career, see Chapter 11: Becoming a Monster. As a rule, how ever, such a decision should be made when the character is created.
The Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) web articles provide a framework for applying inherited templates to creatures later in life using monster classes.

This series of articles will cover all the templates presented in the Monster Manual -- inherited as well as acquired. After all, cases might also arise in which inherited templates, which are meant to be present from a character's birth, could nevertheless be acquired midgame. For example, a fighter might submit to a magical process that imbues him with the essence of a dragon, thereby allowing him to gain levels in the half-dragon template class of his choice. Or a cleric could perform a quest for his church in order to gain levels in the celestial template class. The same balance problems can occur in cases like these, since inherited templates also have level adjustments, so the same process is applicable.

[Thurbane]

Is this a freshly acquired animal companion?

I'm assuming it is an existing animal companion, and Thurbane (the DM) wants to reward the animal companion/player for doing something cool, without pulling out a new one.

Exactly correct.


That said, the animal companion could probably be reincarnated with the template, given the DM is free to change the table for nonhumanoids.

That's one possibility, I suppose.


There are rituals on savage species to change a creature to another so those would likely work for this.

AFB at the moment, but I'll look into it.


Is this your wife's riding dog animal companion? From back when you were asking advice upon her first taste of 'caster supremacy'?

Again, exactly correct. :smallsmile:


Any way you could that's close to RAW probably wouldn't be as fun as coming up with something yourself.
Woodlings have an unusual bond with Nature. Perhaps a Druid's beneficial spell went wrong. A super Barkskin accidentally made permanent. The reincarnation suggested above seems the easiest and fun.
Good luck Thurbane

That's pretty cool: if I can't swing it by RAW, I'll definitely consider it.


I know it's practically fiat but custom spell research could work here too. A reworked version of a spell that applies a template like Mineralize Warrior for example.

Another good suggestion.

I wonder if it would be within the power of a Wish or Miracle spell?


A gift from a Treant, or other sentient plant, a rare spell that costs xp for them. (and yes its a custom spell)

I like that idea. :smallsmile:


Savage Species has a note on the topic.

The Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) web articles provide a framework for applying inherited templates to creatures later in life using monster classes.

Nice, thank you.

[unseenmage]

...

Another good suggestion.

I wonder if it would be within the power of a Wish or Miracle spell?
The aforementioned Savage Species ritual is precisely a ritual to duplicate Wish or Miracle.

Though for the custom spell rules the new spell need only be on par with an existing spell and I do believe there's a spel that gives a familiar some elemental template and I do not think it was a 9th.

[Thurbane]

Though for the custom spell rules the new spell need only be on par with an existing spell and I do believe there's a spel that gives a familiar some elemental template and I do not think it was a 9th.

Might be comparable to Nar Fiendbond: it's a 7th level spell (Cleric, Sor/Wiz) that can add the Half-fiend template to a creature (which is normally an inherited only template).

Blessing of the Woodlands

Transmutation
Level: Druid 7
Components: V, S, M, DF, XP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Target: One creature (see below)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You turn the subject into a woodling by imbuing it with the essence of woodland nature spirits.
The subject must be a corporeal animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, or monstrous humanoid, and can have no more character levels or hit dice than you do.
It must either be willing to undergo the transformation or be restrained in some manner (this spell is rarely, if ever, bestowed on an unwilling creature).
Upon completion of the spell, the subject can attempt a Will save to avoid gaining the woodling template (see page 197 of Monster Manual III).
For the purpose of this spell, treat the woodling template as an acquired template rather than an inherited one.
The newly created woodling also gains a +3 level adjustment, raising the XP required for it to achieve its next character level.
For example, a 5th-level sorcerer who becomes a woodling by means of this spell becomes an 8th-level character who needs 36,000 XP to gain his sixth class level.
You cannot cast blessing of the woodlands on yourself.
Material Component: Rare incense and herbs with a total value equal to the XP cost of the spell.
XP Cost: 500 XP per character level of the woodling created.

[PrismCat21]

*snip*

Looks good to me.

I probably would've just made it
"Target: one willing creature" though. But it still looks fine.

[Bullet06320]

Though for the custom spell rules the new spell need only be on par with an existing spell and I do believe there's a spel that gives a familiar some elemental template and I do not think it was a 9th.

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a
planar familiar

cleric 3
so using research rules, would put it at 4th, maybe 5th

[Crake]

The issue here isn't getting the template, that's squarely covered by savage species and it's rituals. The issue here, from what I understand, is that once the riding dog acquires the template, it will no longer qualify to be an animal companion, since you can only make an average member of the species into your companion, unless you're also going to require her to take a feat to compensate? I'd say it's not fair to make her pay the ritual cost AND a feat, but the woodling template is pretty damn strong, especially compared to other templates you can get from feats, like the celestial template, so I'd say it's fair to make it cost both.

[schreier]

Could the ritual / wish / etc work with a familiar as well? What kinds of restrictions would you impose (i.e. how would it interact with the familiar or animal companion rules? )

My guess is - ask the DM :)

[Remuko]

Could the ritual / wish / etc work with a familiar as well? What kinds of restrictions would you impose (i.e. how would it interact with the familiar or animal companion rules? )

My guess is - ask the DM :)

Ummm, did you even read the first post?


I'm the DM, so no "ask the DM" answers please: I always try to find a RAW method before using DM fiat/rule 0.

Cheers - T

[schreier]

I had - the question went on a tangent, and familiars have much less progression than animal companions

I think it's clear that the rituals in savage species would allow the adding of the template - the next question would be if that somehow disqualifies the creature from being a companion (or familiar). If it does not, does it impact it's progression, or do you progress as if the template is not there then add it on top? If it does disqualify the creature from being a companion (or familiar) - then obviously that's bad for the OP.

I do not know of any RAW language that deals with the specific situation.