Fixing the Ranger's terrible Capstone

[CTurbo]

So IMO, the Ranger has the most worstest bad poopy Capstone in the entire game.

Let's have a look-

Foe Slayer-
At 20th level, you become an unparalleled
hunter. Once on each of your turns, you can add
your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the
damage roll of an attack you make. You can
choose to use this feature before or after the roll,
but before any effects of the roll are applied.

Now that is the UA Revised verison. The Original PHB version is-

Foe Slayer-
At 20th level, you become an unparalleled
hunter. Once on each of your turns, you can add
your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or the
damage roll of an attack you make against a favored enemy. You can
choose to use this feature before or after the roll,
but before any effects of the roll are applied.




So the US Revised version got a little better by removing the favored enemy part, but still, this is the terrible.
I mean come on the Bladesinger can add it's spell stat mod to damage at level 14 and it can do so for every attack it makes for 1 minute a day every short rest. That's basically all the time.
The Bladelock can add it's spell stat mod to damage on all of it's attacks all the time until the end of time at level 12.
The Oathbreaker Pally one ups them both by being able to do it always and forever at level 7.
The ******* Ranger can do it ONCE per round with it's level 20 ability!!! LEVEL 20!!!!
Yeah yeah I know but the Ranger has option of adding Wis mod to attacks too.
Well, the Devotion Pally can do that at level 3. THIRD level! For every attack!!

So how can we fix it?

When look around at some of the other ridiculous Capstones like Barb, Druid, Fighter, Cleric, pretty much all Pally Oath's Capstones, I'm tempted to say the Ranger's Foe Slayer should just add Wis mod to all attacks AND damage all the time. Sure that's crazy strong, but is it REALLY better than getting to have 24 Str and Con AND unlimited rages? Or Immortal unlimited wildshaping? No I don't think so.

So while it may seem crazy strong at first, I don't think it's quite as strong as it seems. First of all, the Ranger still only gets 1 to 3 attacks depending on Conclave/Archetype and Fighting Style, and secondly, to REALLY get your money's worth from it, you have to invest in Wisdom more than you normally would which really cuts down your other options and feat possibilities. Normally, Ranger's are content to keep a 14 or 16 in Wis.


Ok ok so if you're still thinking that it's way too strong, well, you certainly have a good argument. I mean a potential +5 to attacks AND Damage is basically like getting a massive +10 boost to your attack stat. I see that, so I'll ask again...

How can we fix it?

Simply allowing Wis mod to damage for every attack all the time is still way too weak considering the 3 examples above. The same thing can be said if you only allowed Wis mod to all attacks, but no damage boosts.

Maybe we make this another one of those "For one minute a day..." features? That could work maybe.

Maybe we say you have the option to add Wis mod to attack OR damage, but make it for every single attack? That's much better than before, but still a little weak IMO.

What do you guys think?

[bid]

Simply allowing Wis mod to damage for every attack all the time is still way too weak considering the 3 examples above.
Well...
Barbarian adds +7 from Str24 and +4 from rage.
Ranger adds +5 from Dex20 and 1d6 from HM.

Adding Wis mod would at least make the damage match, or put you +2.5 ahead if you push for ASI as hard as barbarians. Which might be enough for the +40 hp / +2 Con save they get.

So, that would make ranger capstone as good as barbarian.

[Spacehamster]

Well...
Barbarian adds +7 from Str24 and +4 from rage.
Ranger adds +5 from Dex20 and 1d6 from HM.

Adding Wis mod would at least make the damage match, or put you +2.5 ahead if you push for ASI as hard as barbarians. Which might be enough for the +40 hp / +2 Con save they get.

So, that would make ranger capstone as good as barbarian.

Would give +3 at most probably since no ranger goes for 20 WIS.

[CTurbo]

Would give +3 at most probably since no ranger goes for 20 WIS.

Well that's what I was thinking, but if that really was the Capstone, and you really were going to make it to level 20, you'd probably bump it higher. I would anyway lol

[Angelalex242]

Or, ya know, let's NOT make it a straight bonus.

Rather: Your melee attacks are treated as vorpal swords vs. your favored enemies. Your ranged attacks are treated as arrows of Slaying.

Boom, done.

It is level 20, after all. And only against two lousy creature types.

[Spacehamster]

Well that's what I was thinking, but if that really was the Capstone, and you really were going to make it to level 20, you'd probably bump it higher. I would anyway lol

Maaaaaaybe just maaaaybe but that would be the last ASI when you hit 19 and are quite sure you hit 20, otherwise I would prob rate having a good combat feat or two higher tbh. :) but yes could see bumping it to 18 at level 19 with that capstone.

[Naanomi]

Shillelagh Rangers go!

[Dungeon-noob]

Okay, i might not have a good idea to post here, but i am going to have to correct the OP a bit.
1. The vengeance paladin does not get anything like you describe on level 7. Or at all. That claim is outright false.
2. The devotion pallydin can only do that as an Invoke Devinity, which is a (fairly) limited resource. That claim is incomplete/misleading.
3. The warlock can only add it's CHA mod to damage, and it costs an invocation, which is a class feature slot. That claim is also incomplete/misleading.

I still agree that the ranger capstone is too weak and needs fixing, and some of there points have some merit. And despite that i don't want to be a jerk, i'm still going to ask you please could argue accurately and completely? It just undercuts your whole point when you don't.

[nickl_2000]

Shillelagh Rangers go!

That is an interesting concept. A single quarterstaff with MI Druid for Shilleigh and Thorn Whip. You can drop strength and only have 14 Dex to max out armor.

[Petrocorus]

Or, ya know, let's NOT make it a straight bonus.
...

What do you guys think?

If i may add another example, an Arcane Cleric with GFB can do this too at level 8. And can be SAD thanks to Shillelagh (with a feat).
Now, as others have pointed out, this is not as strong as it may seem.

But i concur that the Ranger capstone is a lackluster, even in its UA form. The whole PHB Ranger core class is a lackluster anyway, and wouldn't be worth anything if it was not for the Hunter subclass. Even the UA revised have some issues.

The Wis bonus to both attack and damage on every attacks would be probably a bit too strong, but Wis bonus to damage on every attack seems on par with other capstones. I don't think it's too strong, notably on a class that is quite MAD even with some shenanigans.

[Spacehamster]

Okay, i might not have a good idea to post here, but i am going to have to correct the OP a bit.
1. The vengeance paladin does not get anything like you describe on level 7. Or at all. That claim is outright false.
2. The devotion pallydin can only do that as an Invoke Devinity, which is a (fairly) limited resource. That claim is incomplete/misleading.
3. The warlock can only add it's CHA mod to damage, and it costs an invocation, which is a class feature slot. That claim is also incomplete/misleading.

I still agree that the ranger capstone is too weak and needs fixing, and some of there points have some merit. And despite that i don't want to be a jerk, i'm still going to ask you please could argue accurately and completely? It just undercuts your whole point when you don't.

1: He said oathbreaker paladin not vengence.
3: Not misleading since all bladelocks reaching that level will take that ability. :)

[Angelalex242]

1: He said oathbreaker paladin not vengence.
3: Not misleading since all bladelocks reaching that level will take that ability. :)

Attack and damage based on wisdom against the two favored enemy types?

[Nidgit]

People focus too much on the damage aspect of it. The capstone should be treated as something that turns a miss into a hit, and if that extra accuracy is unneeded then it's converted into extra damage. It's more like a lower powered Rogue capstone that can be used all the time.

If your Wisdom is low, it's admittedly going to be weaker, but that's the only stat that the Ranger class is specifically built around. The best alternative for a flat boost would be adding your proficiency bonus instead, or allowing you to add Wis to both your attack and your damage once per turn.

[Tanngrisnr]

At my table, Foe Slayer lets Rangers add half their proficiency bonus to the damage of all attacks, all the time. This removes the tax on ASIs and feats. Also, once per round you can choose to apply the same bonus (half proficinecy) to one attack roll.

We only play at this level very occasionally, and so far we are yet to find a situation where this houserule breaks the game.

(We also have Champion Fighters adding half their proficiency bonus (rounded up) to one damage roll per round at level 7, as part of Remarkable Athlete.)

[CTurbo]

Ok I got it.

Foe Slayer-
You can choose to add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll or damage roll of any attack you make. You can choose to use this feature before or after the roll, but before an effects of the roll are applied.

This lets you either turn a miss into a hit or add more damage on a sure hit. This is decently powerful, but honestly it should be.

[Naanomi]

Another bad thing about Ranger Capstone: if by some miracle it applies; a Beastmaster gets to utilize it less

[CTurbo]

Another bad thing about Ranger Capstone: if by some miracle it applies; a Beastmaster gets to utilize it less

Well I would think your companion gets to benefit from it too. Pretty sure that's how it works already.