Intimi-captain!

[heregoeshell]

I understand that Marshal, and auras in general, are weaker options when compared to the straight might of spell casting, or even bard level buffing of players. However, I like the idea of a character that works to boost the presence of others simply with their presence (Read: I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over the sound of my awesomeness.) As such, I am inviting critique, criticism, suggestion, and general review, of an aura based intimidate optimization build.

Campaign specific rules: No Leadership (has been removed as a prereq for Legendary Leader). No multiclass penalty. This is strictly for pre planning for a campain intended to get to level twenty (and to humor myself on how it may operate). I have also been allowed to project 2 minor auras rather than required only to have one of each from the Marshal.

Paladin2/Marshal2/Crusader1/Dragon Devotee2/Dragon Shaman1/Bard1/Legendary LEader5/Barbarian1/Champion of Gwynharwyf4

Paladin 2 - for CHA to saves
Marshal 2 - for access to both auras, Master of Tactics and Motivate CHA
Dragon devotee 2 - for bonus feat and +2 to CHA
Dragon Shaman 1 - for 3rd aura (using presence)
Crusader 1 - for access to White Raven, as well as Clarion Commander
Dragon lord 1 - I will explain
Bard 1 - wasn't sure what to put here, figured extra buff from inspire courage couldn't hurt
Legendary Leader 5 - immunity to fear and 2 bonus auras, Pursuing Commander and Sneaky Commander
Barbarian 1 - Rage for Instantaneous Rage
Gwynharwyf 4 - Fearsome Fury

Feats: Iron Will, Dreadful Wrath, Imperious Command, Knight of Stars, White Raven Defense, Clarion Commander, Righteous Wrath, Instantaneous Rage (doomspeak and frightful presence would be nice to get in here, but are not totally necessary).

Use: Use fear stacking (dreadful wrath, imperious command, fearsome fury) to cower opponents, while using the flatfooted assistance (master of tactics, clarion commander) to allow enemies to clear off enemies easily.

The level of Bard is totally unnecessary, but I couldn't think of anything else to include in the spot, and adding on another area boost sounded nice. The idea behind the inclusion of Dragon Lord, was to allow the first level increase of aura affect (happens at dragon lord 1 and dragon shaman 1 and marshal 2) to make up for the lack of aura compensation for Presence aura. I couldn't think of any other way to optimize aura use with synergy with intimidate, which seemed the more worthwhile option. I considered Seeker of the Song initially, but found the length and prereqs subpar (maybe a level or two for dual song), and would have loved to be able to include the Zhentarim Fighter fear progression, but other than that I don't have any other thoughts.

Thanks for your time.

[heregoeshell]

Am I late to the party on intimidation, or is the build really that bad? I'm really not sure what to do with it, and don't feel like springing Killer Gnome on my DM without warning, especially when my fellow PCs don't optimize that hard. Any thoughts from anyone?

[The Viscount]

The boards are always a little slower on weekends; I think a lot of people browse at work.

Since you asked, Intimidation optimization is fairly old. It has the considerable barrier to overcome that fear immunity or mind affecting immunity will negate it.

If you can spare the feats, I'd recommend nabbing Presence through Draconic Aura, so that way it scales (provided you're dragonblooded).

Dragon Devotee is rather a poor investment of 2 levels for 2 cha. If you're looking for something to replace Bard, have you considered Dread Pirate, or perhaps Scarlet Corsair?

[Karl Aegis]

That's certainly a lot of classes. Are you sure you don't want to go straight Divine Mind instead?

[ExLibrisMortis]

You don't need paladin 2, as Champion of Gwynharwyf already provides Divine Grace. Dragon Devotee isn't great, bard 1 is too little. I see where you're going with Legendary Leader, but I don't think it's worth it. Marshal 2 with two minor auras is amazing. I think you might like Mythic Exemplar, especially on a bard, but it's not exactly a powerful class. Heartfire Fanner (Dragon #314), on the other hand, is a powerful class, and it's a great way to get Inspire Courage on the cheap (in terms of levels).


How about something like marshal 2/barbarian 1/crusader 6/champion of gwynharwyf 4/heartfire fanner 5/[something] 2, with Song of the White Raven, Song of the Heart, vest of legends, and Words of Creation, which gets you 20th-level Inspire Courage for a +10 total bonus to attack and damage to all allies.

[heregoeshell]

Viscount: I was intending to grab Presence, but was hoping that dragon shaman would nab it without the feat. I also know that we are going nowhere near any sailing form of water, and as such found dread pirate and scarlet corsair undesirable. Perhaps with a different flavor (mercenary?) it would work, but the worthwhile portions of the investment (corsair 5, dishonorable dread pirate 5) are a decent level investment. Similarly, does the bonus feat do anything to offset the two level investment as well?

Karl: Hadn't even heard of divine mind, but unfortunately DM is not allowing psionics at present. I may look into further for fun, but not for present build.

Ex Libris: Ah, hadn't noticed, that frees up those two levels. I like the synergy for allies when Legendary Leader (Specifically the Pursuing and Sneaky auras) are used in conjunction with the Marshal's Master of Tactics, and FF from intimidate (cower), while coinciding with Clarion Commander options. It's more intended to operate as a whole. I agree that one level of Bard is too little, and unfortunately no Dragon Mag sources allowed either. Though I would totally stack that onto a Bard/Warblade Song of the white raven/dragonfire inspiration build.

I'm thinking:
Marshal2/Barbarian1/Crusader1/DragonShaman1/DragonDevotee2/LegendaryLeader5/Gwynharwyf4/Bard4 (or 6 if I drop dragon devotee)

[ShurikVch]

Paladin2/Marshal2/Crusader1/Dragon Devotee2/Dragon Shaman1/Bard1/Legendary LEader5/Barbarian1/Champion of Gwynharwyf4

Paladin 2 - for CHA to saves
Marshal 2 - for access to both auras, Master of Tactics and Motivate CHA
Dragon devotee 2 - for bonus feat and +2 to CHA
Dragon Shaman 1 - for 3rd aura (using presence)
Crusader 1 - for access to White Raven, as well as Clarion Commander
Dragon lord 1 - I will explain
Bard 1 - wasn't sure what to put here, figured extra buff from inspire courage couldn't hurt
Legendary Leader 5 - immunity to fear and 2 bonus auras, Pursuing Commander and Sneaky Commander
Barbarian 1 - Rage for Instantaneous Rage
Gwynharwyf 4 - Fearsome Fury

Feats: Iron Will, Dreadful Wrath, Imperious Command, Knight of Stars, White Raven Defense, Clarion Commander, Righteous Wrath, Instantaneous Rage (doomspeak and frightful presence would be nice to get in here, but are not totally necessary).There is a problem there: prerequisites for Commander Auras:
Prerequisite: Commander rating 2, lawful evil alignment.
Prerequisite: Commander rating 5, chaotic evil alignment, sneak attack ability.You're don't have Sneak Attack ability for Sneaky Commander, their alignment requirements are incompatible with each other, with Champion of Gwynharwyf, [exalted] feats, and Paladin - unless you're using som Evil variant class


Note: in the Magic of Incarnum, the Incarnate class at 7th level gets Share Incarnum Radiance CF, which allow to share benefits of your Incarnum Radiance with allies
The possible benefits are: AC bonus for Good alignment, melee damage bonus - for Evil, melee attack bonus - for Lawful, and land speed increase - for Chaotic
Also, at 4th level, Incarnate will be able to share benefits of Lucky Dice soulmeld (by binding it to the Hands chakra), and at 9th - either Bluesteel Bracers or Lammasu Mantle (both - by binding to the Arms chakra, so - just one at time)

[The Viscount]

The bonus feat makes Dragon Devotee more palatable, but if it's the Cha you're interested in, you can get that through something like Fiend-blooded or Heartwarder, which is also giving you more class features.

I recommended a feat over Dragon Shaman because if you are dragonblooded, draconic aura scales, whereas dragon shaman's aura would be stuck at +1. If vigor's still a big thing for you, you might still be swayed.

If you can afford the dip, Menacing Brute's demoralizing stare can prolong effects as well for a smaller investment.