Multiclassing spontaneous/prepared casters

[sheraba]

So I'm looking to build a multiclass Druid/Oracle (perhaps not the best combo but it fits the background). Here is the question I have:

As a level 1 Druid I learn the entire spell list for Druids of level 0 and 1 spells. A lot of these spells are also on the Oracle spell list.

As a level 1 Oracle I learn 4 level 0 and 2 (+1 from CHA mod) level 1 spells.

So as a Druid I prepare
Create Water
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
as my 3 x 0 level spells per day. However, as an Oracle I don't have to prepare spells in advance and I can cast any spell on my spell list as long as I have the spell slot available right? So does that give me the ability to cast all of the level 0 spells that are on both spell lists as I know them all from being a Druid and Oracles cast cast any spell spontaneously? Or do I get the 3 spells from being a Druid and 4 from being an Oracle?

I'm giving the level 0 as the example, assuming all levels will apply the same, with the limitations of spells per day.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by sheraba
Or do I get the 3 spells from being a Druid and 4 from being an Oracle?

This is the essence, but they work differently. You’ll be able to select any three orisons from the druid list for your druid casting, but on the oracle side you’re limited to casting from among the four orisons you chose as part of your spells known.


Originally Posted by sheraba
However, as an Oracle I don't have to prepare spells in advance and I can cast any spell on my spell list as long as I have the spell slot available right?

No—you can only spontaneously cast from your spells known, not the entire spell list.


Originally Posted by sheraba
As a level 1 Oracle I learn 4 level 0 and 2 (+1 from CHA mod) level 1 spells.

No. Bear in mind that your Charisma modifier only allows you to cast more spells per day, from the list of spells known. It doesn’t allow you to increase the number of spells known past what’s given in Table 2-6 of the APG.

“Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an oracle knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table 2-6 are fixed.” (APG, p. 43).

[grarrrg]

Casting classes are generally considered entirely separate from each other when it comes to spells known/prepared/whatever.

So you'd consider ONLY stuff gained from Druid levels when doing Druid spells, pretend Oracle doesn't exist.

And ONLY stuff gained from Oracle levels when doing Oracle spells, pretend Druid doesn't exist.

[Palanan]

Speaking of which, does Pathfinder have a divine version of the 3.5 ultimate magus?

That seems like a perfect fit for a druid/oracle, could be a good option for later on in the build.

[sheraba]

OK, that makes sense to me. But it leads me to a further question...

Assuming I am a level 3 Druid / 3 Oracle and I discover a spellbook in the game which will let me learn a new spell, how would this apply to the dual classes? Would both classes add it to their spell list or would I then have to choose one class to add it to their spell list?

If I added it to the Oracle spell list would it have to replace one of the Oracle spells known of the appropriate level so that I don't go over the max spells known?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by sheraba
Assuming I am a level 3 Druid / 3 Oracle and I discover a spellbook in the game….

Neither druids nor oracles rely on spellbooks for their divine casting, so I’m not sure a spellbook would help you at all. There may be some Pathfinder variant of either class which lets you cast divine spells from a spellbook, but if so I’ve never heard of it.

[Necroticplague]

OK, that makes sense to me. But it leads me to a further question...

Assuming I am a level 3 Druid / 3 Oracle and I discover a spellbook in the game which will let me learn a new spell, how would this apply to the dual classes? Would both classes add it to their spell list or would I then have to choose one class to add it to their spell list?

If I added it to the Oracle spell list would it have to replace one of the Oracle spells known of the appropriate level so that I don't go over the max spells known?

Neither druids nor oracles can learn spells from spellbooks, instead either knowing their whole class list (but limited by preperation), or having a fixed spells known they pick on levelup.

[Kayblis]

Assuming I am a level 3 Druid / 3 Oracle and I discover a spellbook in the game which will let me learn a new spell, how would this apply to the dual classes?

"Spellbooks" contain arcane spells. The only core class that learns from books is the Wizard, and I believe the Archivist can learn from them too. There's a clear distinction between Arcane and Divine in D&D.

Also, every method of learning new spells specifies who is it meant to - Spellbooks are for arcane casters that prepare spells, Knowstones are for arcane spontaneous casters, divine casters that prepare spells always have their whole list learned and can get more by Domains and ACFs, and divine spontaneus casters don't get much in this regard, although I'm sure there's some divine relic that gives them more spells known just like their arcane variants. It is worth mentioning that some feats and PrCs give some spells known, like the Sandshaper PrC does for arcanes. I don't know any that specifically help divine spontaneus casters, but there must be some.

[Arkain]

Neither druids nor oracles rely on spellbooks for their divine casting, so I’m not sure a spellbook would help you at all. There may be some Pathfinder variant of either class which lets you cast divine spells from a spellbook, but if so I’ve never heard of it.

The Lore Mystery's Arcane Archivist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo-oracle-mysteries/lore/) revelation allows an oracle to use a spell book for limited spellcasting. That's about it though, I think.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Arkain
The Lore Mystery's Arcane Archivist revelation allows an oracle to use a spell book for limited spellcasting.

Good catch, I figured there was something somewhere.

This looks like it wipes the spell from the spellbook after it's cast, so extremely limited indeed.

[sheraba]

There is a trait that I have taken - two world magic or something like that? It lets you add a spell from another class's level 0 spells to your spell list. Would that add it to both of my spell lists?

So what I gather from the information you've all given me (and thank you all for the clarifications) is that my Druid half knows all spells of each level he can cast and must select daily from these which spells he will prepare for the day. The others remain known but uncastable for that day (thus if I know that I will be going somewhere very hot or cold I could choose Endure Elements to be able to survive better, but if I haven't prepared it and ge shoved through a portal to the Fire Plane, bad luck).

The Oracle half knows only a few spells but can use them all each day (up to available spell slots) so can be more versatile in unforeseen circumstances as he doesn't have to plan ahead what he expects to need each day.

So, last questions (hopefully!):
1) Do I have separate spell slots each day for each class? That is, can I cast my 2 Druid spells and 3 Oracle spells as a level 1 caster of each class?

2) As an Oracle the Mysteries grant certain spells known, along with the base ability to add all inflict or Cure spells to the spells known list. I assume that these are added on top of the basic spells that I know?

[Arkain]

Yes to basically all of that. Your spellcasting classes are seperate in that you track your spells known, spell slots and how you use them individually. For example, Charm Animal is a first level spell for druids, so you can prepare it in your druid slots. You can't use your oracle slots to cast it. Likewise, you can't use your druid slots to cast Cure X Wounds, even though the druid has access to the spell, unless you've prepared it. So ideally you'd try to have as little overlap as possible. And of course all the bonus spells known for the oracle are in addition to your usual spells known, but they don't apply to the druid.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by sheraba
There is a trait that I have taken - two world magic or something like that? It lets you add a spell from another class's level 0 spells to your spell list. Would that add it to both of my spell lists?

That would be worth clarifying with your DM. I personally would rule that the trait only adds the spell to one of your spellcasting classes, not both, but your DM might see it differently.

I would also think that the trait, which is taken at first level, would apply only to the casting class you entered at first level—either druid or oracle. I don’t see offhand how it could apply to both, but again, that’s a question for your DM.


Originally Posted by sheraba
1) Do I have separate spell slots each day for each class? That is, can I cast my 2 Druid spells and 3 Oracle spells as a level 1 caster of each class?

As mentioned above, your druid casting is completely separate from your oracle casting. You have two different sets of spells, one which you prepare in spell slots and one which you cast spontaneously. Assuming you’re a Druid 1/Oracle 1, then yes, you’re a first-level caster in each class. If you choose druid at third level, for Druid 2/Oracle 1, then you’ll be casting as a second-level druid but still a first-level oracle.


Originally Posted by sheraba
2) As an Oracle the Mysteries grant certain spells known, along with the base ability to add all inflict or Cure spells to the spells known list. I assume that these are added on top of the basic spells that I know?

Correct—both your bonus mystery spells and your cure or inflict spells are in addition to your spells known.

[sheraba]

Thanks very much Palanan. Very simple explanations for a poor ol' noob like me!

[Kayblis]

Another small addition, remember your spontaneous conversions! Clerics can trade any spell prepared for a Cure(good ones) or Inflict(evil ones) spell of the same level or lower. Druids can convert any prepared spell slot into a Summon Nature's Ally of that level or lower. This means you shouldn't ever prepare SNA on a Druid, but still have the spell lists in hand as they give you a ton of expendable minions and utility for a low level slot(climbing monkeys, birds to fly and scout, small animals to get inside crammed spaces and holes in the wall, combat summons like wolves and bears, you name it).